[discoverwild]

Crossed the 15min mark to edit my previous post, as I spent the last 48 mins going through the review yet again.

It is critical for me to have an offroad vehicle for my work. For the city, I do have an Indica which has been doing great work (has been doing some offroad as well). The video of the dry river bed crossing in the review is something that I would be doing on a regular basis with and without water fording. Videos attached of my water crossings below.

YouTube - P1060889

We had water gushing into the inside the MM540.

YouTube - P1060895

Please note that, a couple of days before this video, we had to ford through water at about the numberplate level in the Indica at night. A couple of streams were tougher and we didn't manage videos as my friend was busy guiding me.

I saw the comparo of the track of the MM550 and the Thar Crde but I think I read somewhere that the track of the Thar Mdi is different. Over 5 topics on the Thar and a zillion pages has left me confused to where I saw it in the first place. I know the jeep gurus can rattle it out like nine pins. I do have to travel between 100-200 kms to reach such places, so a Crde engine would be nice to have and easy to cruise at 80kph.

I can put my money on a Thar. But I can't afford spending on repairs and maintenance on a constant basis. That's where the IFS bothers me.

I seek advice from the Gurus now.

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Dont jump in, Behram himself had cautioned us somewhere about lifts. Allen has pains with tyre wear on the lifted scorp. BLR boys have seen what can really go wrong. So unless tried and tested desist from such mods, atleast at this point of time.

Hi Jaggu,

But the Thar has a Stock Body Lift!!!! Please check the pics for comparison of body mounts.

http://www.team-bhp.com/carpics/mahi...ah-thar-01.jpg

Since the Thar Body is a MM540, a additional channel has been added underneath, to give a body lift.

Regards,

Arka

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Have to say, I was pretty sure it will be Khan saab reviewing the Thar. Expected Samurai to be a part too!

I had done a TBHP review of Ford Endeavour 4WD quite recently. The reason why TBHP reviews are so thorough, is the incredible amount of planning/work that goes behind it. It takes a heck of lot of time to write and compile a TBHP review, and it is not our day job. Let me just say I didn't envy Shahnawaz and Tejas for doing this review.

Originally Posted by pjbiju

Let me give another perspective to this. A lot of Team-Bhpians here have been or are living with their Jeeps. They know the quirks and shortcomings.

Even then, Jeepers did get appalled by the interiors. We don't expect luxury, but do expect clean fit-n-finish even in our rebuilt Jeeps, let alone a brand new factory built Jeep. My CJ340 which was rebuilt in a remote village in Coorg has lot better fit-n-finish than the factory built Thar. After sitting in my Jeep, I am not able to accept the poor quality interiors of Thar.

Therefore, one can only imagine how life-style users will feel about the interiors.

[Jaggu]

Yup Arka we had noticed the body lift, i was talking about the suspension lift which puts more strain on IFS???

[ramkya1]

Hai DB,

Nice to see you respond to the criticism, many of them constructive. I am sure you're on a packed schedule, a few suggestions you may consider:

1. The least that is expected from your ASC guy is correct information on the technicals, pricing and features that differentiate it from other products. You may have difficulty in reach for an eye-ball training session, focus on a few guys and train them intensively. By giving illogical / stupid answers and spreading confusions, the ASC guys are damaging the M&M brand. If you need training ideas, speak to me, you have my number. Use an LMS platform, use the web, certify them and ensure minimum standards are achieved in knowledge and skills before they talk to customers about Thar or touch the product on the shop floor.
2. If you cannot fit the AC/ Hardtop due to whatever reasons officially and quickly; source, validate and recommend vendors who would love to fill the demand supply gap, ther's a void now. If you don't, somebody is going to do a local job on it with dangers of failure; the minus would rub-off on the brand. Even if the neighbourhood garage does the jugad job, the owners / mechanics would pass it on as inherent technical weakness of Thar. This is a serious threat, wonder if your SWOT escaped this point?
3. Delay the actual sale of the product until you sort out the interior issues, this is going to hit the M&M brand adversely. I'm a satisfied customer with a Scorp and and have expectations from the M&M badge, I feel let down with the technical and cosmetic weak points in the Thar. It has great positives, but then that's what the money is paid for.
4. Those who have already bought or booked, assure them the fit and finish refinements, when they come, FOC, M&M can afford to invest in brand building.

After all that is said and done, the Thar has the underpinning of a winner, the minor problems can be overcome with more investments at least on the cosmetic finish. You need to seriously dispell the Jugad image of the product.

--Ramky

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Tejas and Shahnawaz - thank you very much for your perfectly executed and absolutely correct report. I just read through these 5 pages, waiting to board my flight from Cochin to Mumbai (we launched in Cochin yesterday). With the absolutely hectic schedule that I go through, I need to find some time to type out my comments, which I will try and do either by today or tomorrow.

Dear all - I ONCE AGAIN COMMIT TO ALL OF YOU AND ALSO TO MYSELF ON THIS OPEN FORUM THAT WE SHALL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO ENSURE THAT THAR SHALL SUCCEED IN THE MARKETPLACE.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear all - I ONCE AGAIN COMMIT TO ALL OF YOU AND ALSO TO MYSELF ON THIS OPEN FORUM THAT WE SHALL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO ENSURE THAT THAR SHALL SUCCEED IN THE MARKETPLACE.

SIRJEE,

It has has been One year since we first saw the Thar, all of us suggested a Sump/Crankcase Guard, which has still not been incorporated.

If something this elementary and small is overlooked OKBJ, FFRA, better interiors are another lifetime away.

Best Regards,

Arka

[khan_sultan]

Originally Posted by maddy42

.... Minor things are not adhered to and this can kill a vehicle

It is obvious that the attention to detail is missing. In today's market, customers don't usually don't give second chance to a product/brand and first impressions are very hard to shrug off. FIAT is a stellar example of this.

Originally Posted by BlackRaven

...I was waiting for this review to make my decision and yes, I went ahead and booked my thar today.

Congrats..!!! I am sure the Thar will bring a smile to your face whenever you drive it. It is actually a very nice car only to be let down by Mahindra folks themselves.

Originally Posted by dtox

..Still, for vehicles like the Thar, the heart can rule over the head for that very important buying decision. More a case of a silent rush of blood to the head brought about by those 247 Newton metres of torque under the hood.

Agree. As of today, it will be more of a heart over mind decision for many to to buy a Thar. If Mahindra improves the quality & addresses few areas of concern, then it will become a 100% mind decision as well. And Mahindra should realize that not many products have the potential of appealing to both the heart & mind. I wish they do it before it's too late.

Originally Posted by BlackRaven

Khan Saab, does stock THAR come with the alloys shown your review vehicle? I thought the showroom vehicles only had plastic hub caps that looked like alloys.

The stock vehicle does NOT comes with alloys. The one we had, had some accessories (like the front bull bar etc..)

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

... Any ideas if any kinds of discounts are being offered yet?

Too early buddy for that. But if Mahindra doesn't improve the fit-n-finish, then....

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

...
Dear all - I ONCE AGAIN COMMIT TO ALL OF YOU AND ALSO TO MYSELF ON THIS OPEN FORUM THAT WE SHALL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO ENSURE THAT THAR SHALL SUCCEED IN THE MARKETPLACE.

Behram, you very well know what needs to be done here and I hope the MM folks do something fast. The mechanical team has done a very good job only to be SERIOUSLY let down by the fit-n-finish department.

Let me summarize again, what almost everyone here also feels:

• A/C: is a MUST

• Hard TOP: MUST for city buyers. Come one, I am sure your vendors can make a decent FRP H/T and it will not cost the moon for MM.

• Decent quality interiors, fit-n-finish. Customers don't expect absolute luxury here, they can be spartan/basic but should not look like a JUGAAD/afterthought.

And yes, all this should be at the same price point. You get these in the Thar and your folks have a winner in your hands here that will appeal to a wide segment of the market.

Originally Posted by discoverwild

....The team who worked on the interiors and the overall fit and finish, should be booted out, for the trash that they have served.

oouchh..!!! that's tooo harsh. But yes, if the customer after appreciating the Thar from outside, liking it and even then not buying it because of the fit-n-finish and few other issues then for sure the responsibility for the lost sales lies squarely on those folks

Originally Posted by pjbiju

.... They may not have seen a Jeep from close quarters for many years. Yet they may aspire to own one. ....What they are familiar with are the modern day cars (scorpio included) and their expectations will be inline with that. So when they go to the showroom to look at a brand new lifestyle vehicle called the Thar, they will be disappointed. The first impression is created by the looks. It may even make them decide against a proper test drive. So at this price and for a new vehicle, the interiors should be as good as the exteriors even if it is spartan. They should look and feel "designed".

Well said. That represents the emotions & sentiments of several potential buyers of the Thar.

Btw, my son and wife have fallen in love with it (without seeing it in person), especially in this color of the test drive vehicle.

Oh, so true. It's hard not to like this vehicle from outside, especially this rocky biege color.

[discoverwild]

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

.
oouchh..!!! that's tooo harsh. But yes, if the customer after appreciating the Thar from outside, liking it and even then not buying it because of the fit-n-finish and few other issues then for sure the responsibility for lost sales that lies squarely on those folks.

Khan Bhai, you know how I feel about the Jeep, my avatar says it all.

I request Arka, you or any other Guru to suggest something for me with regards to my questions and videos posted earlier on this page.

[chaunfa]

What the Thar offers (in terms of onroad + offroad balance) simply doesn't exist in the market today. As an offroader, I'm just glad to see that the Thar finally made it. End of the day, owning a Jeep is owning a Jeep. To those who don't....well, it's a Jeep thing. You'll never understand . Give me a Thar over any 6 lakh rupee hatchback or sedan any which day.

I told my brother about booking the Thar, he was like a prophet of the old testament warning me about suffering and gnashing of teeth in the outer darkness. He said that you will barely use the 4x4 four times in a year and for that you will suffer...the heat, the cold.

Don't know why he couldn't for once get excited and say,"Hey! What a looker? Hope you have a whale of a time in it." Thank God for my very supportive wife. She chose the colour.

[WRX]

Great review! now let's see Mahindra enter the Thar in the extreme addition of the raid and desert storm to prove its mettle. That will ensure they beef up the front suspension for sure.

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by DKG

Its a great expedition vehicle. I would love to do my Himalayan exploration in a Thar ! I am getting ideas....

Call me if you need a driver, sir .

PS A very fair , simple yet meaningfull & Informative report .

[svsantosh]

Nice review, did not know that the CV joints upfront are approx 40K, and if they break God save the owner..!!

[khan_sultan]

Originally Posted by discoverwild

....Over 5 topics on the Thar and a zillion pages has left me confused to where I saw it in the first place.....

The information you are looking for might be here

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...ml#post2175969

[Jaggu]

Don't beat me up But i dont think so, second quote answer for first and add IFS to it.

Originally Posted by WRX

Great review! now let's see Mahindra enter the Thar in the extreme addition of the raid and desert storm to prove its mettle. That will ensure they beef up the front suspension for sure.

Originally Posted by svsantosh

Nice review, did not know that the CV joints upfront are approx 40K, and if they break God save the owner..!!

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by discoverwild

Khan Bhai, you know how I feel about the Jeep, my avatar says it all.

I request Arka, you or any other Guru to suggest something for me with regards to my questions and videos posted earlier on this page.

Hi Discoverwild,

I would suggest the Thar MDI, for the following reasons.

1) If you can register a BS3 vehicle

2) Solid Axle

3) Can be Mechanically modified
a) 57" OKBJ + 53" FFRA
b) Lower Diff-Ratio 4.55:1 or 4.88:1 or 5.38:1
c) Taller Tyres
d) Suspension Lift
e) Power Steering - Bolt on Job
f) Winch

4) Its a simple JEEP, which can easily be fixed.

5) If you have to frequently cross-water, I would suggest switching to NLGI-3 Grease for Wheel Bearings & UJs and Taller Breather Plugs.

6) Cruising with the Thar MDI, will not be that much of a problem, because of the NGCS and 5-Speed Gearbox. The Thar CRDe will be better at the gobbling miles.

Hope I could help you.

Regards,

Arka