[Cesc]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

I@Cesc: If you have a look at the Road Tax difference, it is just around 15k, which is not much. Stripping down a Rear Defogger is a pure sin i feel. Common man. Even my 4 lakhs OTR Indica Vista has all these features. I agree we cant compare quality of Tata with that of Skoda, but we are not talking about quality here. We are talking about ROI.

All said and done, I would not have mind all this if atleast there were following 4 features still available:
1) Rear defogger
2) Rear washer and wiper
3) Folding Rear seat
4) Same music system

All other missing features are not very critical and are mostly cosmetic in nature.

Ajay - I said with the road tax the difference is 1.3L. Without that it is 1.15L so the road tax contribiutes 15k to the total.

On the Indica comparison - does that 4lakh OTR Indica have dual airbags? The point is - let's not compare selectively. If at all we compare let's compare the whole product with a matching product from its category. Agreed Skoda could have left some things like rear defogger in the list but on the whole I do think this was the right move by the company.

[ajay_satpute]

^^^ I agree with you buddy, not fully but almost. Like I mentioned at the end, I really dont mind the Fabia in its current form. Atleast, a common man like me can afford it now. 1.4 Fabia was 9+ shockingly. Even the Jazz looks like dirt cheap compared to that.

My whole point was that cost cutting should not be done on vital features. Removing the make-up is OK.

[ampere]

Three items which are very useful are rear-defogger, rear-whiper and retractable mirror. I am not if these items would cause so heavy a price difference.

At least the above items seem to a part all highest end trims. They should at least compare what they want to offer on the highest trims against highest trims of Jazz/I20.

May be they would have done that, but the above is what I feel from a user's point of view.

[theoriginal9321]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

I do not think this was a good move by Skoda. First they have trimmed down the engine from 1.4 to 1.2.

I think the 1.4 diesel is still available but is costlier.
The latest price list I got today from skoda has the TDI in two specs -
TDI CR - 7.65 lacs on road
TDI - 9.03 lacs on road

But I agree with you on the rear washer/wiper/defogger, at least they could have left the Defogger!!

But I have to admit I am falling in love with this car. At first when I was searching for a hatch, I didn't quite like it, but its looks have "grown" on me and I have started to prefer the looks of the new Fabia compared to the Polo

Now I just have to convince my Dad to buy the 1.6 Fabia instead of the 1.2 Highline Polo which is priced similar

[ajay_satpute]

BTW, guys, is it possible to fit defogger and washer+wiper on the Fabia as an accessory?

How much would that cost and would Skoda themselves can do it or it becomes an after-market job?

[theoriginal9321]

^^ Exactly what I need to know as well.

@Ampere - I am really unable to compare Fabia to the i20, may it be handling, overall build quality, etc.
And Jazz is just overpriced so I dont even want to consider it as a contender..

[Cesc]

Ajay - both will be very difficult to install. For the defogger your job becomes easier if any current Fabia model has a rear defogger. You can then change your rear glass and copy the electricity supply and controls to the defogger from the Fabia with the defogger. If no current Fabia has a rear defogger then forget about it because then you will not even get a glass with the defogging element. With the glass available this should cost you at least 8k.

The rear wash and wipe is even more painful to replicate/install as for that you will need to get both electricity and water supply to the rear glass. BTW what's the big deal about rear wash and wipe (not sarcastic - just want to find out why someone would want it that bad)? I don't think any sedan has it and nobody has ever asked for one. IMO I find it pretty useless but then that's just my opinion. No offence to anybody who finds this useful.

OT: Seems both of us are making good use of our Friday office times

[shivir]

Originally Posted by Cesc

Ajay - both will be very difficult to install. For the defogger your job becomes easier if any current Fabia model has a rear defogger. You can then change your rear glass and copy the electricity supply and controls to the defogger from the Fabia with the defogger. If no current Fabia has a rear defogger then forget about it because then you will not even get a glass with the defogging element. With the glass available this should cost you at least 8k.

The rear wash and wipe is even more painful to replicate/install as for that you will need to get both electricity and water supply to the rear glass. BTW what's the big deal about rear wash and wipe (not sarcastic - just want to find out why someone would want it that bad)? I don't think any sedan has it and nobody has ever asked for one. IMO I find it pretty useless but then that's just my opinion. No offence to anybody who finds this useful.

OT: Seems both of us are making good use of our Friday office times

I believe the rear defogger is quite "Top Variant" statement - I have managed to drive safe for about 15 years without one. While it can be useful a few times in the year here, I really wouldnt consider it a deal impacter.

Also, I can say this with confidence, most of us in Gurgaon wouldnt really bother about this, but I notice a lot of people from other parts of the country seem to think its really important. Must be something to do with weather conditions I guess mate.

What better use of office time and bandwidth I ask?

[ajay_satpute]

Thanks for the info, CESC.

I agree that rear washer and wiper are not so 'required' or critical features. It is just that I've been used to them since day one and it is useful in some situations. So was wondering if these could be arranged in the cash discount offered by the dealers or not.

[2cents]

Originally Posted by Cesc

IMO what Skoda is trying to do is compete on an even field with other hatches. The competition does not offer a vast majority of the features you have enumerated in their top models.......

All in all I think it was the right move by Skoda. You can't have your hatch priced at 30-40% premium to competition and still hope to garner market share. What the company has tried to do is close that gap. Agreed we lost a lot of goodies but IMO for a hatch buyer the price difference generated is greater than the pinch of missing goodies.

I agree partially! Fabia tried a segment which simply did not exist, impractical and unsustainable in India. Remember the prices when it was introduced few years back, now they buy it for its VFM factor!! But whats disgusting is that the stripping down of features has happened not because these reasons you have quoted, but due to its more affluent sibling - Polo. Otherwise why did they have to wait for Polo on the streets before they went for these changes??!!

Originally Posted by S_U_N

How much of a difference has point 8 made? Has anyone driven the old and new Fabia's for a comparison?

I think 9 is important from safety, but not very sure. What is the risk without it?
Don't know much about 10, but would like to get opinion from experts.

Point 8 is still being debated here. There seems to be a clear shift in TBhp towards hydraulics.

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

Hey pajero4me

Could you please comment on the GC of Fabia? I was going through the specs on the Fabia site and it says Min GC is 158 mm. Its damn low for Indian road conditions.

Please throw some light on this.

The official figure refers to the GC below the engine which is lower, compared to in-between wheels. So, when you see those craters/bumps you better be careful when you carryover the nose area.

[pajero4me]

While I was frantically writing code on a Friday after noon (No i was'nt snoring ), suddenly this conspiracy theory came to my mind.

At the time of buying my fabia Elegance ,Polo Tdi higline (top end) cost was roughly 10-15K (on ex-showroom) more than Fabia.
Now Polo Tdi has 16 inch Alloys, 185/60 tyres,Rear Washer Wiper (Sorry Cesc let me use those terms one last time,I promise ) and defogger.
All this for a mere 10K+.
Was VW being stepmotherly with Skoda,Pushing their sinister Polo Agenda?? Armtwisting Skoda into trimming essential features so that it is placed intentionally below Polo ??
Now they have made Fabia a real good Hatch,but just short of being the Best.Looks like my Fabia is poor Cindrella with Stepmother VW pushing her cousin Polo with all bells and frills.

[shivir]

Originally Posted by pajero4me

While I was frantically writing code on a Friday after noon (No i was'nt snoring ), suddenly this conspiracy theory came to my mind.

At the time of buying my fabia Elegance ,Polo Tdi higline (top end) cost was roughly 10-15K (on ex-showroom) more than Fabia.
Now Polo Tdi has 16 inch Alloys, 185/60 tyres,Rear Washer Wiper (Sorry Cesc let me use those terms one last time,I promise ) and defogger.
All this for a mere 10K+.
Was VW being stepmotherly with Skoda,Pushing their sinister Polo Agenda?? Armtwisting Skoda into trimming essential features so that it is placed intentionally below Polo ??
Now they have made Fabia a real good Hatch,but just short of being the Best.Looks like my Fabia is poor Cindrella with Stepmother VW pushing her cousin Polo with all bells and frills.

How I love this conversation!

But not really, now - the Skoda is globally positioned a little lower than the VW. Skoda has no choice here! But the Fabia also has a couple of little bits that the Polo does not. I think Aux In is one of them and there are another couple of gimmicks.

BTW - Planning to upgrade ICE this or next weekend - will let you guys know how that goes.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by Cesc

Ajay - both will be very difficult to install. For the defogger your job becomes easier if any current Fabia model has a rear defogger. You can then change your rear glass and copy the electricity supply and controls to the defogger from the Fabia with the defogger. If no current Fabia has a rear defogger then forget about it because then you will not even get a glass with the defogging element. With the glass available this should cost you at least 8k.

The rear wash and wipe is even more painful to replicate/install as for that you will need to get both electricity and water supply to the rear glass. BTW what's the big deal about rear wash and wipe (not sarcastic - just want to find out why someone would want it that bad)? I don't think any sedan has it and nobody has ever asked for one. IMO I find it pretty useless but then that's just my opinion. No offence to anybody who finds this useful.

OT: Seems both of us are making good use of our Friday office times

CESC, which segment do you drive ? You see, Sedans have a boot behind the rear wheels. It blocks all the water spray being thrown upwards around the wheel wells and mud flaps. So they don't really need the rear wash+wipe.

In case of Hatches (& many SUVs due to their higher GC), this spray - Those micro drops with soil - covers up the rear windshield 100% in 5 minutes at 80 kmph. This severly degrades the visibility via IRVM in monsoons. Thats where the rear wash+Wipe comes in handy. Take my word on that, it makes a HUGE difference.

Remember the good old Accent VIVA? It had a shorter boot, and elongated slanted rear glass that came to the end of the boot. She needed a rear wiper, and had it thus...

OT - make that 3 using office time well...

[ajay_satpute]

I think the only department where Polo simply can not beat the Fabia is the space. Both the rear seat legroom and the boot are much better in size in the Fabia than the Polo. Polo rear seat is too bad on legroom.

I think the engine on Polo makes more noise than the one on the Fabia. Experts and owners can comment on this one.

[shivir]

@ Reinhard - While what youre saying seems extremely valid, this is my third hatch and honestly, it has not made that much of a difference - One zen I drove for a bit had all of the rear wash and wipe and all but I used it twice in 12 months! So I am not so sure if it really that useful. Also, I think the defogger is the useful part of that set. The wash and wipe is a good to have but not a must have.

@Ajay - Engine is the same and is tuned for similar performance, so I am not too sure there is that much of a difference - inside the cabin anyway. And the Skoda blows the VW away on space inside - not only on the Fabia but pretty much on all cars!