[Fordmanchau]

Originally Posted by noopster

WoW is so convinced that what she did is right that she is not willing to even entertain the idea that something may have gone terribly, terribly wrong and she'd have had to live with the consequences of that all her life.

I seriously don't think she had any other option noopster. Flight was out of question for a 3 month old baby and you know how un-coperative people can get during train journeys.
One of my friend had a baby few months back, and they were travelling to their native by train. Believe me or not, people were not even willing to trade their seats for half a hour to allow the mother to feed the baby. And I hope you know how uncomfortable can this get for the ladies.
And a woman so independent, will not have it any other way and a car journey offers lot of flexibility whichever way you look at it.

Originally Posted by noopster

Why, Ford? Just because I have an alternative point of view?

No, no, not at all. Just read what you have written and I have quoted below

Originally Posted by noopster

As rude as this may sound, I really don't give a damn about what you went through in your pregnancy, traumatic as it may have been.

IMO, this was pretty strong words against a lady. God forbid if someone known and dear to you goes through all that WoW has gone through, will you still give a damn, noopster?
No woman would like to go through her pregnancy alone, no one wishes it to be like that. And she has shown courage driving herself to hospital during her labour pain.
Atleast give credit where it's due.

I honestly feel, she has done what she felt was right and most suitable. And she is a Punjaban, you seriously doubt she couldn't have pulled it off

That is all I have to say. And no hard feelings , it's just that I admire your writing and valuable posts and then when i read that post of yours, I felt I need to speak here.

I'd been excusing myself from this debate since the thread started, but now here I am.

WoW, nice pictures of you and Ethan together. He looks so happy and healthy. Keeps all doubt to rest of his well-being.
"Bacche ko kaala tika laga do, nazar na lage"

Originally Posted by New.Novice

PS - Cmon folks.. he is Ethan.. for him it wasnt Mission Impossible

[New.Novice]

Originally Posted by noopster

Why, Ford? Just because I have an alternative point of view? I sincerely hope your report is not acted on because I believe the counter-arguments also need to be on this thread so that someone reading it gets a more balanced picture.
Since my opinions are now being equated with statements advising people not to expose their babies to lunar eclipses, I think I shall make an exit with as much dignity as I can muster . !

I have read your comments on this thread and have no issues with those at all, it is a different issue altogether that I do not agree with most of the things you have said. However, here I don’t get you. You believe in counter arguments and that’s why you persisted with them but in the same breath you said you are leaving as people are counter arguing with you. So what if you believe it is too below the belt for you if someone equated your logic with not exposing their kids to lunar eclipse. Someone might have found some of your comments even more insulting. So be it. Why take the easy way out of leaving?

Coming to the original thread. I personally have EXPERIENCED that kids are much stronger than what we believe they are. And each parent, especially mothers, know what they can do with their kids.

God gifted me with a baby who was born with Pierre Robin Syndrome. I thank god to have chosen me for this. It helped me bond with my baby much much better than I thought I would be able to when I was a nervous "would be" father. And more importantly to show me what kids are capable of. It is not easy for a father to see an infant with missing upper palate leaving him with no chance to be able to fed through mouth. But he did just fine when his mother poured milk almost directly in his food pipe using something called a Palada. While I would choke every single time his mother did it for months, the mother and son did just wonderful.

The kid is now almost 6 and all of this is past for us.


I am sorry folks I think I went a little too long there but all I wanted to say was that definitions most often are moving things and are to be seen in perspective. While we would feed our babies with sterilsed bottles there are kids out there who eat right of the floor and probably have better immunity then us.

WoW am sure your kid would one day look at this thread and be proud of his mother.

PS - Cmon folks.. he is Ethan.. for him it wasnt Mission Impossible

[MX6]

Originally Posted by noopster

1. It is not my intention to lecture anyone, especially someone who is not even willing to listen.
2. WoW is so convinced that what she did is right that she is not willing to even entertain the idea that something may have gone terribly, terribly wrong and she'd have had to live with the consequences of that all her life.
3. Fair enough- it's her life. But I couldn't, hence spoke up. If that makes me the bad guy, so be it.
4. Why, Ford? Just because I have an alternative point of view? I sincerely hope your report is not acted on because I believe the counter-arguments also need to be on this thread so that someone reading it gets a more balanced picture.
5. Since my opinions are now being equated with statements advising people not to expose their babies to lunar eclipses, I think I shall make an exit with as much dignity as I can muster .
6. Just one bit of advice to all parents intending to take their kids on extended roadtrips: the posts by WoW and MX6 have valuable pointers on how to travel with a young child: please use those well.
7. Good luck!

Here's my response.
1. WoW wasn't like actually willing to listen. When a person knows what he or she is doing, listening to detractors make it very painful.
2. Hypothetical statements carry no value. We can counter argue stating, Wow wanted to drive, we put her on that ill fated train or a flight by talking about post partum depression and hormonal changes to a female body that makes driving extremely stressful and dangerous.
3. You are not a bad guy. Just that folks like us (hvkumar, wow, mx6 there another great called parag.sachania who has been clocking enough miles with his baby ever since she was 2 months old and there's been another member here who took advice from close friends and his doctor to move his wife on a road trip during critical phase of pregnancy and is happy about the same) hate to be constantly told about what we need to do. Thanks for your advice. But yeah, been there, done that. We don't tell others to follow what we do. We always state that if man has done then man can do. Just that others need to plan accordingly and consult their physicians on travel advisory.
4. Why is this thing about reporting cropping up again in T-BHP? thankfully, fordmanchau had made it clear that he reported it. But I feel that hitting the report button though helps the moderators to keep the quality of the forum, also leads to a bit of poor taste in an open forum. I feel that these posts should stand. it is up to readers to decide whether to follow WoW and enjoy their drives with their babies or heed Noopsters posts and sit back at home then come back and post on somebody else's log - "Wow. you are lucky. You got permission. you were brave. you could do this. Wow."
5. You managed to get only the eclipse part? Guess, I should have tried to put it in a better way or a better example. Just to show how repressive and backward we are as a community that even reasons like eclipses become a big issue when planning a travel. If a person is forward enough to understand eclipses, then he or she should be good enough to understand the medical reasons on dos and donts to a new mother. And no one is targeting your dignity here when we post about various deterrents that we get to hear while we plan a trip.
6. Thank you for the last statement. We shall take it in the positive spirit and not attach any sarcastic value to it.
7. Yes. Any travel on Indian roads, with or without kids, with or without women now needs a lot of luck. Some of the best laid plans can go awry. Even the mighty hvkumar's scorp almost became a national memorial in ladakh. So before you set out on any journey, as WoW rightly did, pop in to the nearby temple and break a coconut. All the KSRTC airavat volvo bus drivers driving from Mangalore to Mumbai do that at a temple just when they turn in to NH63 after Ankola. I'm not sure whether there's a power above that can change your luck just by that one coconut. But, the confidence one gets in driving after that will be good to ensure your carry on no matter what!


And finally yes. My example of lunar eclipse also being however trivial being a deterrent to taking a kid out is anyway lesser disparaging than the below quote.

Originally Posted by noopster

As rude as this may sound, I really don't give a damn about what you went through in your pregnancy, traumatic as it may have been.
My concern is for the offspring of those not-so-bright souls, who, as someone else who is also following this thread keenly told me just now, "(will show) this thread to their wives and us(e) this as an argument for going on long trips with their newborn babies".

And this is exactly the bone of contention when everyone has too many concerns about too many things that actually doesn't concern them at all! why be concerned about the offspring of those not-so-bright-souls?
They already have enough people concerned about the same.

And yes, just as some lady's pregnancy is none of your concern, passing a remark out here stating you don't care a damn also is of poor taste. Guess may be that is why fordmanchau reported the post.

Sadly we are still in a male dominated society. Sigh.

[daredeviljpr]

Originally Posted by womanonwheels

Hers is the youngest traveller on the team bhp forums.. His name is Ethan :-)

Your baby will have company in the next few days for being the youngest traveller on team-bhp.

I am also planning to travel from Pune to Jaipur next Wednesday (Dec 21) with a three month old daughter. I will be travelling on the same route you travelled but only upto Jhunjhunu. Initially I had concerns about travelling with the baby but after reading your travelouge I am quite comfortable. It was nice of you to list the points that should be taken care while travelling with a baby and certainly helps a lot.

I have travelled on the Narmada bridge and seen the traffic jams and I believe you just did the right thing. We have to take some decisions based on the situation we are in and they may not seem to be correct in normal situations.

Waiting for the salasar trip pics.

[womanonwheels]

Hmmm, quite an intresting debate I must say. I am kind of happy that I was able to see this side of the fellow BHPians. However, are there any of us who feel that now all of us are stongly digressing from the very idea of a travelogue. it is a forum meant to share your journey with others and that should be it. If one doesnt want to take a trip in similar situation, that is a choice one can make. Why let it go to an extent where we may be treading on toes or commenting on very personal and sensitive topics.

Originally Posted by daredeviljpr

Your baby will have company in the next few days for being the youngest traveller on team-bhp.

I am also planning to travel from Pune to Jaipur next Wednesday (Dec 21) with a three month old daughter. I will be travelling on the same route you travelled but only upto Jhunjhunu. Initially I had concerns about travelling with the baby but after reading your travelouge I am quite comfortable. It was nice of you to list the points that should be taken care while travelling with a baby and certainly helps a lot.

I have travelled on the Narmada bridge and seen the traffic jams and I believe you just did the right thing. We have to take some decisions based on the situation we are in and they may not seem to be correct in normal situations.

Waiting for the salasar trip pics.

Congratulations on the new arrival in the family. Best of luck for the trip and I am thrilled that you are choosing to travel inspite of the somewhat heated debate on this thread. I am waiting for your travelogue eagerly.. Please PM me if you have any questions..

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team: Please use the "edit" button if posting within 30 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post.

Also use "Multi Quote" option for quoting Multiple posts

[MX6]

Originally Posted by daredeviljpr

I am also planning to travel from Pune to Jaipur next Wednesday (Dec 21) with a three month old daughter.

Feel free to PM me as well for any help.

Here's a list of things I carried during all the travels when my daughter was an infant.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...ml#post1878998

[Irish]

Originally Posted by womanonwheels

Hmmm, quite an intresting debate I must say. I am kind of happy that I was able to see this side of the fellow BHPians. However, are there any of us who feel that now all of us are stongly digressing from the very idea of a travelogue. it is a forum meant to share your journey with others and that should be it. If one doesnt want to take a trip in similar situation, that is a choice one can make. Why let it go to an extent where we may be treading on toes or commenting on very personal and sensitive topics.

WOW, I agree with you!

Why are we going Off Topic here?

We have got 2 options (just a suggestion on a lighter note):

1. Continue with your Travelogue and enjoy the photographs here or
2. Rename the thread (e.g. Debate on safety of new born babies during long drives) and move it to Shifting Gears Section.


Cheers!
Irish

[amitoj]

WomanOnWheels, what brand was the infant seat that you used in the trip? I think that would be the first question on the minds of anyone travelling on such a long journey with an infant.

EDIT: Specially for people like daredeviljpr here who has been inspired by your travelogue.

[MX6]

I'd suggest Graco. I use Graco! One can also see a photo of the stroller and the car seat I've used in the link I've posted above.

And here's some advisory on using car seats. For the first few months use them rear facing. Never place them front facing or on front seat. And a strict no on seats where air bags are there.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by MX6

I'd suggest Graco. I use Graco! One can also see a photo of the stroller and the car seat I've used in the link I've posted above.

And here's some advisory on using car seats. For the first few months use them rear facing. Never place them front facing or on front seat. And a strict no on seats where air bags are there.

I think infant seats are always rear facing and they are not to be mistaken with child seats. I used Graco once when we hired a cab from Delhi to Patiala and the baby slept peacefully for most of the journey, snug in the seat.

But for a longer duration journey, I'd like to know WoW's experience with an infant seat. How did the baby behave when kept in infant seat for a longer duration? When (if) did the baby start getting cranky? Did you have to do anything extra to stick to the feeding routines? And since the original post had mention of milk powder etc, does that mean that the two month old baby was off mother's milk already?

[Alfa Romeo]

folks, finally after reading the interesting travelogue (rather debate) lets accept that everyone has their point of view and there has been addition of value by both sides in the debate. And Irish has rightly given the options as well
just to end ..Humility is understanding reality with humanity

[daredeviljpr]

Originally Posted by MX6

Feel free to PM me as well for any help.

Here's a list of things I carried during all the travels when my daughter was an infant.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...ml#post1878998

Thanks MX6. Your list is comprehensive and have added a few items to my shopping list. Any feedback on the DC to AC converter which can be used with the electric kettle to warm liquids?

[womanonwheels]

Car seat - Mothercare

Some of us at our workplace have a kid's club where we exchange things that are in perfect condidtion. These are items that either the baby has outgrown or a parent has received more than one similar item as a gift. One of my friends had gone to UK and purchased one that could be strapped to the carseat or it could be carried out like a cradle. I however still went on to securing it again with placing cushions and extra mattress. Wish I had taken pics - Didnt know the travelogue will get such a response :-). There also were times when my hubby sat with him at the backseat using pillows and mattress to give him a break. Longer duration in car seats could mean backache for babies. Another thing one needs to know is that babies get very tired with any form of outing, The new sights and sounds mean too much sensory input for them and they may become cranky because they have had too much to take.

To tackle it, I also carried massage oil with me. As soon as we stopped over at Ahmedabad, first thing I did was to give him a massage, bathe him with hot water, swaddle him in a nice blanket and put him down. I also carried lot of change of clothes. staying in the same clothes during a long travel can cause baby to be irritable. So I used wet wipes to clean him and changed his clothes more often. We also chose not to eat food in the car. Strong aromas lingering in the car cabin arent good for baby. You never know what the baby may end up reacting to.

Milk powder - My baby has been on both breast milk and top feed from the time he was one month old due to baby's weight/appetitie and milk supply issues. So, I fed him while I could and if he was hungry and we were unable to stop, hubby mixed the powder with hot water and fed baby.

The formula milk basically is a substiute of breastmilk for infants when either mother is unable to breastfeed or baby needs extra nutrition. Women who are unable to breast feed or need help when they are away also choose this. There are also women who choose not to breastfeed and rely on formula 100%. However formula only needs to be introduced after doctor's recommendations and also only after mother and baby have practised the art of nursing naturally.

Some of the most famous formula brands available in India are - NAN1/Lactogen/Isomil/Enfamil.

However, it is best to ask the pediatrician to recommend as some of them are soy based and some are also available for lactose intolerant babies.

I have done a lot of research on pros and cons of formula feed. If anyone needs more information, I can guide to lot of good websites.

[daredeviljpr]

Originally Posted by womanonwheels

Congratulations on the new arrival in the family. Best of luck for the trip and I am thrilled that you are choosing to travel inspite of the somewhat heated debate on this thread. I am waiting for your travelogue eagerly.. Please PM me if you have any questions..

Thanks. The travel to Jaipur was planned at the last minute and I am in the same situation you were in, trains are full, airlines are expensive that leaves the only option to travel by road.

Having a baby on board makes one more responsible and careful as compared to travelling with adults or alone. I have already travelled for around 5-6 hours last month with the baby on board and the results have been encouraging.

[MX6]

Originally Posted by amitoj

I think infant seats are always rear facing and they are not to be mistaken with child seats.

They are not always rear facing. My Graco came with clear instruction that I can use it as a rear facing as well as front facing. And it was clearly adviced to use it as rear facing till the baby turns 3 or 4 months (don't remember the exact reading there as I moved to the level 2 combo car seat now).
So while I took my baby in a car I used it as a rear facing. When I took her in the train, I used it as front facing!

Originally Posted by daredeviljpr

Thanks MX6. Your list is comprehensive and have added a few items to my shopping list. Any feedback on the DC to AC converter which can be used with the electric kettle to warm liquids?

The electric milkboiler came with high wattage (more than what the converter can support). It will blow your fuse. Don't use the electric heater along with the DC to AC converter. I used the electric kettle only on roadside dhabas, toll gates, even houses where people were very friendly to let me use their plug point for a minute or two!
The electric milk warmer (bag with a coil inside) that's charged by cigarette lighter can be used however to just keep the milk warm. But let's not OT this wonderful log. Feel free to start a new thread on travel with infant or PM me/ WoW separately.