[aargee]

Originally Posted by 14000rpm

I can go on and on but most of these are fundamental Capitalism v/s Socialism differences and it was clear that socialism is what we seemed to have liked

Capitalism, Socialism, Communism or Democracy whatever the terminology, if people are taken care well & provided security by Govt, then there's no need for people to behave violent. Period!!

Animals & humans becomes a threat only when they're threatened, in a friendly society no one is a threat to anyone; obviously minor exceptions will be there which are to be ignored.

[hondatoyotafan]

Originally Posted by 14000rpm

Over the course of the next few months, while we tried to unlearn Finland and adopt US, many aspect of Finnish life kept coming back on dinner table discussion.

Most common were:
...

I can go on and on but most of these are fundamental Capitalism v/s Socialism differences and it was clear that socialism is what we seemed to have liked.

Suffice to say, we sort of decided to return to Finland at some point in life. US stint was on L1A which meant GC process was way shorter. New plan was to take the GC and then take a call whether or not we would continue living in US hoping the comparison to Finland would die gradually.

Note - most of the social welfare benefits are common across most European countries. Some aspects could be tuned to local demographics.

Having Lived/Studied/Worked in US/Canada for 9+ years I can relate to your thinking.The tax differential between US- Europe is not too high when you think that on a temp visa you get nothing back for all those taxes except roads/infra etc. Canada is better in that sense as there is universal healthcare and tuition caps etc.

Daycare is very expensive in North America in general. Unemployment insurance is there in US but only for LPR's / Citizens but it is pretty strict/selective on awards. As you say the job security in the US is pretty much non existent. Employee/Employer loyalty is non existent and both are pretty cavalier about each others welfare.

Good that you are on an L1A. In my case GC processing added to my woes. Being in an american company with no tech offices abroad made the L1A route impossible and i was stuck in the perpetual EB2/3 line. Keep in mind that once you have the GC you have to be in the country for 6 months per year and also the govt gives a one time 2 year Re entry permit.

Personally i returned to India for personal reasons. I have started my own venture and see another set of challenges in our desh.

[14000rpm]

While the ranting continued, we had to finalize a car since the rental RAM was getting too expensive and was pointless after some time. The stick shift 2008 CR-V that I drove for 4 yrs in Finland did a fine job and I thoroughly enjoyed driving it all seasons. We had gotten used to the space and ride quality it offered. Heck, I even drove it on a Finnish rally stage during recce and nothing broke. More on this later.





However, around 2016, when KIA launched the 2016 body style Sorento in Finland, I kind of liked the fresh design language and briefly considered buying it too. However, it started to get expensive and I eventually dropped plans after I had decided to migrate to US in mid 2017.

Cut to US, car hunt started around the car I really wanted to buy but couldn't in Finland - Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. Interesting discovery - Jeep Wranglers hold value keeping used Jeep prices quite high which made me swing towards a new JKU (JK body style 4 door Wrangler). However, being fully aware that the next body style, JL, was soon to be released and the JLU (4 Door JL) would come in spring 2018, I decided to wait a bit to get me a Jeep.

But then, this is 'no-public-transport' territory and I needed a car real quick till the time JLU is out. Went back to used car search and looked around Crossovers but avoided CR-V. What looked and felt spacious in Finland suddenly looked a size smaller in US. On the other end, I avoided a Chevy Traverse too. no doubt it was quite big but it also felt like a mini-bus. Lack of time and options in the region made me shortlist a few Ford Edge's - in particular the 2014 Edge Sport. Has good power and looks awesome too. but then, I had to drive many to like one and sat down for negotiations which stalled unable to agree on the price. I wasn't willing to pay the quoted price. The agent took this to the manager and I was waiting. In the midst of this, I saw another car roll in to the lot - a 2016 KIA Sorento. I couldn't resist but give this car a closer look and I quickly recollected all the things I had liked about this car when I test drove it in Finland. Took a short test drive and came back liking it all the more. By the time the agent came back with results of her nego with her boss, I had changed my mind - KIA Sorento it was.
Haggled on this a bit and quickly agreed on a price which I found was below KBB Value and I sealed the deal.







Conclusion- Negotiations are so much easier when emotions are involved.

[Jignesh]

Originally Posted by 14000rpm

Suffice to say, we sort of decided to return to Finland at some point in life. US stint was on L1A which meant GC process was way shorter. New plan was to take the GC and then take a call whether or not we would continue living in US hoping the comparison to Finland would die gradually.

Hello 14000rpm,

I can relate largely to all your comparisons between US and EU on this thread.

I have been living in Germany and Netherlands from beginning of 2014 onward. After spending some 4 years here on deputation from Indian IT Company, we decided as a family to stay here for longer time and I took up a local employment in Germany.

I have been to US just once but I could feel something missing there when compared to life in EU in general.

Having said this, I moved to Germany in 2014 after my US L1A was not successful in 2013. Seems - Whatever happens, Happens for Best.

By the way, how are you all placed now? Are you still contemplating returning to Finland sometime in future or it is too early to decide on this?

[HappyWheels]

Originally Posted by Jignesh

...

By the way, how are you all placed now? Are you still contemplating returning to Finland sometime in future or it is too early to decide on this?

That seems to the cliff hanger question now. Hope he continues his write up soon!

[14000rpm]

Originally Posted by Jignesh

Hello 14000rpm,

I can relate largely to all your comparisons between US and EU on this thread.

So I'm not the only one.

Originally Posted by Jignesh

By the way, how are you all placed now? Are you still contemplating returning to Finland sometime in future or it is too early to decide on this?

We'll see.

Originally Posted by HappyWheels

That seems to the cliff hanger question now. Hope he continues his write up soon!

Sure will my friend. I'm still some distance till I get this thread up to date.

[14000rpm]

While the car search was still ongoing, I managed to freeze on a rental apartment the search for which was quite a learning too. Turns out I not only had to look for a convenient location and a decently sized house, I also had to research crime rate and school ratings in the area. Sounded weird and initially thought it was only due to proximity to Detroit but then, I soon realized it was a common practice in most parts of US. The times I've lived in US before were all when I was single or a forced bachelor and none of those criteria had mattered. With family, it indeed mattered. Quite discomforting actually. Didn't know how to react when I saw a report that Community A had 5 less shootings than community B..there still were shootings ! Firearms were used!. However, when I spoke to folk around, it didn't seem to matter to them. Perhaps it is always in the back of the head until some incident shows up on news.

Nevertheless, after a bit of searching we had settled for an apartment complex in Rochester Hills, MI close to the more popular Troy, MI. Place was close to school, Daycare, Pharmacy, grocery stores and restaurants and most importantly it was SAFE..relatively. Purchased furniture from locally popular stores as well as IKEA and quickly got busy ticking off the 'must-do' from the settle down list.

Or so I thought.

Back in Finland, the Pediatrician had suggested having a pet at home would help my then new born's Immunity and EQ. We thought it was overwhelming and didn't do a thing about it. Now that we were in US and daughter was about 1.5 yrs old, we revisited the recommendation and started looking for puppy's. Filtered down search for child-friendly dogs and ended up picking up a 8 wk old Labrador puppy from a breeder in Fenton, MI.



1.5 yr old kid + 8 wk old puppy. Interesting combo.

This, many have said, was a proper American life. Is it really? I don't know.

[14000rpm]

I typically start my day with a review of the day's to-do list and addressing the 'Priority' items first. Many have said that it is the best way to start a day. By and Large it has worked effectively but then, I am in sales which involves extensive travel and needless to say, Priority is always numbers and all tasks related to numbers are the first one's to address. This numbers related priority list only keeps growing as the end of Fiscal comes closer.
On the to-do list is a permanent entry - Add a post to this thread.
With a keen focus in giving sufficient free time to my Toddler, wife and my puppy, this permanent to-do entry has continuously been pushed down all along with a 'Just Do it....Tomorrow' attitude.

why am I saying all this?

Well, I realized my last post on this thread was 6 months ago and there is just so much more to update. Thought I'd get my Alibi out there before I blow the dust off this thread and crank it up again !!

[14000rpm]

By the time of getting my 8 wk old Labrador Puppy,Bongo, my daughter was only 1.5 yrs old. Being the first child, we were still on the learning curve to handle the little one and frankly, we were learning every day the nuances of child upbringing. To top it, we now had Bongo which quite immediately added chaos to our life. Many have said - 'this is not the right time to get a puppy' 'you should've waited for your child to grow up' etc etc.

But then, the Labrador Retriever is loyal, loving, affectionate and patient, making a great family dog. Highly intelligent, good-natured, very willing and eager to please, it is among the top choices for service dog work. Labs love to play, especially in water, never wanting to pass up the opportunity for a good swim. These lively dogs have an excellent, reliable temperament and are friendly, superb with children and equable with other dogs.

source- https://www.dogbreedinfo.com/labrador.htm

This gave us some fair confidence that it would be alright eventually.

However, to start with, a 8 wk old puppy meant teething issues, lack of potty training, no do's and don't training. Nothing. The last time we had a dog at home was about 30 yrs ago and it was an Alsatian. He was quite ferocious and hence was always tied up. There were no lessons of the past to look back to and I was pretty sure I needed to give Bongo some training.

Thankfully, some kind folk had given me some intial advice on the do's and don't of day 1 of getting the puppy which Included getting a Crate, Right food, Types of leashes and most importantly, how frequently they need a walk for pee/poop. All of this was merely a temporary fix and soon enough I found an excellent trainer . Steve, at the closest pet store -Petsmart. His way of training and the logic for each helped tremendously and the effects of training are permanent. in the 2 yrs since I've had Bongo, there have been very few Pee incidents inside home. These too were mostly when it was about time to take him out and he got excited and started running around home. Thats all history now. There were some clothes torn when he was still teething but then, right training meant he knew what toys to chew on if needed. Oh yes. he got enough toys graded for 'aggressive chewing'.

During all this training, my daughter was actively involved which only meant their bonding was getting better which is what we had aimed for. Daughter loved to take him for a walk while he was still small and couldn't pull hard. This was all the fun and joy we were looking for. Happy with the decision of getting a Puppy.

in the meanwhile, it was already 3 months since being in US and wife was already looking for a job which meant Daughter needed to be in a daycare. Found an opening at a neighborhood Kindercare. By this time, we had all the pre-ordered furniture from Gardner white delivered and life, as we knew it then, was settling down.

[HappyWheels]

Originally Posted by 14000rpm

...

Well, I realized my last post on this thread was 6 months ago and there is just so much more to update. Thought I'd get my Alibi out there before I blow the dust off this thread and crank it up again !!

It is good that the realization has finally drawn upon you!



Let us see how far this one takes you, in this thread.

[Mjaswal]

Hello
I have moved to Finland as well now to pursue my education.

[statix]

Hi,


Can anyone connect me with a good and reliable travel agent? I am planning to go Finland for my honeymoon in December. I know i am a little too late :P



It would be really helpful Also, any inputs/advice is welcomed.

[14000rpm]

Originally Posted by 14000rpm

in the meanwhile, it was already 3 months since being in US and wife was already looking for a job....

Aside of my personal career aspirations, getting my wife back on her career track, which was derailed in Finland, was one of the other motivators. Surprisingly it was quite hard to find one in her field - HR. Eventually she got one at one of the big Indian IT Service provider whose US HQ is in NJ. However, we lived in Michigan and they were ok that she worked remotely. We quickly google'd up their local office locations and found one 20 miles away in Southfield, MI. My office was in the same building but then, being in Sales, I barely went to office. Conclusion - We needed another car for her commute.

As always, out came the wishlist and soon I was looking for MINI Countryman which she always loved. Used car prices were surprisingly high and the hunt went on for long and time was running out. Soon the list expanded and came the used Ford Focus. Found a few good examples but then, I saw a used Focus RS in the lot. Soon the MINI Countryman took the backseat and I was close to picking the RS till I made a few calls to some close friends who work in Ford and I was soon pointed to transmission related Red Flags. This Frustrated my wife further as she was soon running out of time. to join the company and she needed some driving practice too.

It then dawned on me that she hasn't driven in US before and I-75 in Michigan has some mad drivers in peak hours. quickly decided she needed a safe car - read with some ADAS features for safety. Search swiftly moved on to New Cars with ADAS and Toyota's were first in line. started from the Corolla Hatchback and Sedan and quickly onto a Camry. The ADAS features are actually better in a Camry than in a Corolla and it soon looked like more value for money. With Lane Assist, Autobrake, Dynamic Cruise Control, Blind spot monitoring and Cross Traffic alert I was quite confident that even if she chose to crash into somebody, the car wouldn't let her.

Hopped between dealers for a discount and a landed one within 2 days and booked a Silver Camry LE on lease and took delivery soon after. Calculated her expected daily driving and felt that 10k/yr and a 3 yr lease was more than enough.












She was super thrilled and started driving around the neighborhood, dropping and picking up daughter from the daycare which was only 2 miles away, groceries etc. All this while, we were waiting for the joining letter.
When the letter finally came, it was missing one crucial information - the reporting office address which we along assumed would be the Southfield office per conversations with her to-be boss till then.

On Clarification, it turned out that she could work from home and hence no mention of reporting office.

While I was happy about it overall, It just hit me immediately that I now have a brand new lease car for 3 yrs with an allowed mileage of 30k miles and all she would be driving would be 4k miles on her daycare duty. I did propose that I sell off my Sorento immediately and keep the Camry and I'd drive it. However, that idea was never ok. Next option was to give her the Sorento and I'd keep the Camry but that too got shot down since she started to like the Camry.

Now, that's a situation. Kept both cars. Tried to maximize Camry usage whenever possible.

[14000rpm]

Originally Posted by 14000rpm

....The ADAS features are actually better in a Camry than in a Corolla and it soon looked like more value for money. With Lane Assist, Autobrake, Dynamic Cruise Control, Blind spot monitoring and Cross Traffic alert I was quite confident that even if she chose to crash into somebody, the car wouldn't let her....

Turns out, cars with ADAS are super sensitive and can't tolerate minor knocks here and there. Being that the last car the wife had driven was an Alto in India and had a 5 yr gap, the Length and Girth of the Camry was a bit overwhelming for her. Not surprisingly, she ever so slightly brushed against a neighboring car in the parking lot but moved on. She didn't assume anything would be concerning or damaged untill I drove it some days later - the Blind Spot monitoring had stopped working and so did the Cross Traffic Alert.
Apparently, despite bumper having taken the minor impact, the sensors went out of calibration and hence the feature stopped working. And this was only a minor ding. Calibrating these sensors, I discovered later, is quite expensive. I dread to know the cost if the impact was bigger and more sensors were damaged. I am quite sure soon Insurance providers will have more total loss/write-off cases even if the car can be fixed mechanically within residual value. The cost of sensors and their calibration will outrun cost of sheetmetal repair.

Anyhoo, this was a good learning.

[14000rpm]

I thought high value shopping was all done with and life was getting into a rythm - Work, wife/Daughter time, Dog training time, weekend outing time etc etc and then came the Winter. Having lived in Finland before, the similar temperatures in Michigan were barely an issue. However, the wind chill factor is way higher in Michigan owing to the lakes. All homes in Finland mostly have Geo-thermal heating or District heating or similar which are conducted through radiators and in some cases underfloor heating to ensure inside temperature is maintained at an avg of 22 Deg C at all time. Not the case in US where gas fueled furnaces provide heating to individual units via Blowers. My apartment unit was in the corner and took the brunt of cold winds from both sides ensuring the unit mostly stayed colder in the rooms which had the outer walls. I had the feeling the Insulation materials used as well as windows too were inferior quality which further began to antagonize me. Several complains to maintenance all reverted with a common''everything is ok'' response. Guess I had to look for a change of apartment within a few months of moving in.

In the meanwhile, out of sheer curiosity, we started looking at all the Real Estate sites for houses that were on sale. Initially all sorts of ready-to-move-in houses were in the Radar - Colonial, Townhouse, Ranch, etc. Never liked any that came by. There was always something missing. Soon, we expanded search to new constructions that were close to being complete. It was already December when we landed our gaze on a Townhouse project quite close to where we were living. The project was already underway since long and the unit we liked was expected to be handed over in Apr- only 4 months away. Frankly this came as a pleasant surprise and I was not financially prepared for the expected downpayment. Started exploring with the mortgage companies for options. Discovered the option of PMI which meant a low cash payment from my end was all that was needed and I briskly moved towards booking and then the mortgage paperwork. The 4 months quickly flew by and by end of Apr, we moved into our own house in the US. Took us and most of my friends and family by surprise since we were not even a full year into living in the states. I must thank bad thermal management in previous apartment for the pace of our decision.

Our new humble abode was a 2000 Sq Ft (carpet area), 3 floor, 4 Room, 2 car garage Townhouse.