[RoboCop13]

Originally Posted by saleem_k

At this point in time, the only advantage and probably the biggest is the fact the EVs save the environment. Apart from this single thing that probably covers for all other shortfalls, I don’t see any other significant advantage of owning an EV car.

Despite the emphasis being laid on the act of ‘saving the environment’ we’re overlooking the facts like

1. On a global scale, it is said that only 5% of Lithium ion batteries are being recycled as of now. It is considerably much lesser in many parts of the world including India.
2. Thermal power needs to be phased out sooner than later. Burning coal to generate energy, wherein accounting the transmission losses etc., the damage on the environment may come somewhere nearer to the damage caused by ICE vehicles.
3. Recycling the Li batteries in itself is a hazardous process. Laws must be framed such that the manufacturers doesn’t resort to dumping the batteries at the end of their life.
Also, if and when recycling is made mandatory, the process being a hazardous one, it asks for much stringent health & safety regulations for labourers, better working conditions etc., which may further push up the labour costs eventually inflating the battery replacement costs.

PS : Purchasing an EV now may cost a small premium over ICE vehicles but in the long run they may prove to be a menace if there aren’t proper channels to dispose the batteries. This all can be witnessed only when today’s Nexon EVs, MG ZS, Konas rollover six digits on their odometer and everyone starts replacing the batteries.

PPS : We already know that our city municipalities are yet to figure out a proper way to make the domestic garbage disappear, most of the garbage (including e waste) is ending up currently in landfills.
Extended producer responsibility rules framed by the Indian government in 2012 for e-waste and in 2016 for plastic manufacturers is still a distant dream, though it had an optimistic 5 year deadline for manufacturers to achieve the targets in recycling upto 90%.

[ba run]

Indeed courageous and ahead of the curve given our yet to be developed charging infrastructure. Personally, I would not have been able to handle the stress of what if the charger doesn't work, the wait to charge & so on...
For me, it will probably be a 3 year wait before venturing into EV's.

[dgoyle]

I too am contemplating purchasing an EV. For the city I use EV and for trips outside the city use ICE. Would it make economic sense is a moot question?

I enjoyed the narration and applaud the driving discipline. You certainly have given ideas!

[viggienomad]

Hats off for the (successful) attempt. Even with ICE cars, many people will not attempt 1300km journey. Admire the fact that you were prepared to face the uncertainties & ready to tackle issues instead of just complaining.

Charging systems need some sort of standardization soon. With IndianOil & a few others are planning charging stations, the situation might gradually change in the next 3 years.

In some ways, this attempt is comparable with an off-road 4x4 trip. Not everyone will or can do it. Taking the family & kids along will spoil the fun. But for those who want to do it, it's always worth all the hassles.

Glad you did it & thanks for sharing!

[Kernelmann]

You make a bunch of valid points, RoboCop, but it also begs us to question the real cost of progress and if there is such a thing as a perfect solution.

Originally Posted by RoboCop13

Despite the emphasis being laid on the act of ‘saving the environment’ we’re overlooking the facts like

1. On a global scale, it is said that only 5% of Lithium ion batteries are being recycled as of now. It is considerably much lesser in many parts of the world including India.

Li-ion maybe the prevailing standard at present but battery manufacturers are rapidly developing alternatives like Sodium ion, Zinc ion, Aluminum air etc. India's Log9 Materials has successfully demonstrated an Aluminum air EV battery that ran for 1000 kms. I agree that hundreds of thousands of Li-ion batteries will need recycling, hence an ecosystem of closed loop EV battery recycling is coming up. Indian startups like Lohum, Ziptrax are already in operation and gearing up for the first wave of retired batteries to hit the market.

Originally Posted by RoboCop13

2. Thermal power needs to be phased out sooner than later. Burning coal to generate energy, wherein accounting the transmission losses etc., the damage on the environment may come somewhere nearer to the damage caused by ICE vehicles.

Agreed, coal-derived electricity certainly dilutes the positive environmental impact of EVs, but that is true of every electrical appliance. Governments around the world have committed to improving the percentage of renewable sources in the overall energy mix and things will only improve. As per IBEF, by July 2021 25% of India's energy comes from renewable sources, and the govt seems to be intent in improving this, if COP26 resolutions are anything to go by.

Originally Posted by RoboCop13

3. Recycling the Li batteries in itself is a hazardous process. Laws must be framed such that the manufacturers doesn’t resort to dumping the batteries at the end of their life. Also, if and when recycling is made mandatory, the process being a hazardous one, it asks for much stringent health & safety regulations for labourers, better working conditions etc., which may further push up the labour costs eventually inflating the battery replacement costs.

PS : Purchasing an EV now may cost a small premium over ICE vehicles but in the long run they may prove to be a menace if there aren’t proper channels to dispose the batteries. This all can be witnessed only when today’s Nexon EVs, MG ZS, Konas rollover six digits on their odometer and everyone starts replacing the batteries.

PPS : We already know that our city municipalities are yet to figure out a proper way to make the domestic garbage disappear, most of the garbage (including e waste) is ending up currently in landfills.
Extended producer responsibility rules framed by the Indian government in 2012 for e-waste and in 2016 for plastic manufacturers is still a distant dream, though it had an optimistic 5 year deadline for manufacturers to achieve the targets in recycling upto 90%.

Any recycling is hazardous if done without adequate safety measures. But given the high tech nature of EV batteries and the organized nature of this sector, I'm sure standards will be implemented.

But back to the question I alluded to earlier - is there such a thing as a perfect solution? Every modern comfort, from air conditioning to personal mobility comes at a cost. So it's a case of choosing the lesser of the evils based on our limited knowledge and visibility. EVs are not perfect, but are they better or worse than the status quo? The answer depends on your perspective.

[virgovencat]

Excellent !! Hats off for this Daring Drive !!

Thank you for giving details on FC ( fast Charging) on this particular stretch.

I am planning to buy an EV and as I frequently drive between CHN-VJY stretch, wanted to understand how FC's are placed. From your experience - The inference

1) EV charging network/Infrastructure is still not robust enough on highways
2) With current EV Infrastructure - It takes almost 17 hrs to travel to Vijayawada - which in normal petrol/Diesel car would takes avg 6 hrs - If we remove your detours and lets assume helping Petrol bunks , can save another few hours, but still will take 12 hours to travel to Vijayawada ( double the current time).
3) With Single driver & 60 kg luggage , It took so long, what IF four members ( my family) are travelling - would it take longer ? I guess - Yes
4) Finally - If someone is frequently travels on highways - Then be ready for longer trip time ( journey time)
5) Buying EV - Should plan only for city usage , have second car for highway trips.

[Dieseltuned]

You were courageous to undergo this trip, however the situation would have been very different with family in tow.

Would the family appreciate stopping at every 200-250 kms at some unknown service centers and petrol pumps for elongated time of 90 minutes each ? Considering the safety scenario of our roads, how wise it is to stop at bunks and service centers ?

I am assuming that you did this trip solo,but making this trip with a family would have been an absolute nightmare.

[AirbusCapt]

Thanks. This detailed trip highlights to me the futility of buying an EV today. Simple economic calculation states that a diesel Nexon (giving about 20kpl on highways) will burn only about 50/55% more in terms of fuel costs, but will be twice/2.5 times as quick to complete the entire journey.

Plus the comfort of having proper air-conditioning, not taking more than 5 mins to refuel, no range anxiety, the ability to bypass all cities (not having to look for a charger), peace of mind etc.

The cost of Nexon EV is atleast 6lakh more than its diesel version. It will take a long time to recover the cost over the diesel.

EV tech is not yet mature for long distance driving, it is great for intra city commute.

[Kernelmann]

Thakns Virgovencat, I believe charging infra along this corridor is improving rapidly. So an EV for frequent CHN-VJY should not be a problem in the near future.

Originally Posted by virgovencat

Excellent !! Hats off for this Daring Drive !!

1) EV charging network/Infrastructure is still not robust enough on highways
2) With current EV Infrastructure - It takes almost 17 hrs to travel to Vijayawada - which in normal petrol/Diesel car would takes avg 6 hrs - If we remove your detours and lets assume helping Petrol bunks , can save another few hours, but still will take 12 hours to travel to Vijayawada ( double the current time).
3) With Single driver & 60 kg luggage , It took so long, what IF four members ( my family) are travelling - would it take longer ? I guess - Yes
4) Finally - If someone is frequently travels on highways - Then be ready for longer trip time ( journey time)
5) Buying EV - Should plan only for city usage , have second car for highway trips.

1. I believe the TP FC in Nellore (Varalakshmi Automobiles) should be functional in the near future. Besides Relux has big plans for AP too and plans to install multiple chargers along the highway.
2. Travel time would depend on your choice of EV, but considering the Nexon EV and 2 reliable FCs along the way, travel time to VJY should be 9-10 hours.
3. Adding more people or luggage will not significantly change the above time as incremental charging time is quite small for FC. It's only when you hit the last 10% that charging slows down, else FCs are quite rapid.
4. EVs will never be able to match ICE for travel time since charging will always take longer than refueling. Unless there is some hitherto unforeseen technological breakthrough.
5. Again, depends on the distance. 200-300 kms one way should not be a problem if there's an FC conveniently positioned. Anything more than that which requires multiple FCs is impractical at this point.

[Manas]

Originally Posted by Kernelmann

Just a few of the many errors encountered

I am Manas - am a Tbhp member since 2005 and an avid EV enthusiast. I ride an Ather Series 1 as my daily driver.

I work with Exicom and came across your thread.
First of all - Mirroring the sentiments of other Tbhpians - it was awesome to read about your approach towards EVs .
However, am really sorry for the less than perfect experience you had with our chargers. We would really like to understand the issues you faced with Exicom chargers in your ride - so that we can improve the user experience of our chargers for all customers.

I tried to DM you but your privacy settings don't allow that. I can be reached at manas.trivedi (@) exicom.in - Please drop a test email to me (or DM me your details - we will call you back).

Best,
MT

[guru_max]

An excellent thread. One can infer from this post that currently EVs are practical only for those with more than 1 car in the home or those who never take their car out on the highway.

[Manas]

Originally Posted by Kernelmann

If the appliance directly runs on electricity like a TV, Fridge etc. the inbuilt power electronics usually check for voltage and current and let the appliance run. However, charging a battery changes the game. You need a BMS (Battery Management System) which prioritizes battery health. Add to that poor integration between Tata Power chargers and the Nexon's BMS and you have a recipe for trouble. Here are some of the said error messages which give absolutely no clue as to what the user should do to overcome it.

Just a few of the many errors encountered

Additionally, as all the EV charging sessions are chargeable (money wise) - there's a lot of depedency on connectivity of the charger with the CMS servers to start and maintain sessions (usually over OCPP protocol). Over and above the integration of the charger and the battery - there are other moving pieces as well some or all of which will be improved over time.
Even a small matter like SIM cards inside the chargers facing intermittency in connectivity can cause issues in user experience.

[MobilisAdvento]

Absolutely Brilliant!!! Very inspiring too, your though process about our environment is really commendable. Your voyage to drive such a long distance through an EV will definitely encourage a lot of us to use more electric vehicles. EV technology and infrastructure is evolving very fast. Hopefully all of us will see a much better infrastructure in coming years.

[MarutiGuy1977]

Noob question - are chargers standard across models - both in India as well as other countries? Nexon EV charger can be used for a MG ZS EV? Tesla charger for a Nissan LEAF?

[Kernelmann]

Originally Posted by Manas

I am Manas - am a Tbhp member since 2005 and an avid EV enthusiast. I ride an Ather Series 1 as my daily driver.

I work with Exicom and came across your thread.
...
I tried to DM you but your privacy settings don't allow that. I can be reached at manas.trivedi (@) exicom.in - Please drop a test email to me (or DM me your details - we will call you back).

Best,
MT

Hey Manas, thanks for reaching out. I'd be happy to provide my feedback. Have sent you an email.