[maximus.]

I have no idea, how i dug out this gem.Piligrimage at Goa, never thought that.Thanks for sharing information on culture and heritage.All temples visited are great and i am sure you have come back as a blessed one.

[BaCkSeAtDrIVeR]

Originally Posted by gopal.prabhu1

This is a very useful travelogue for me and I hope to do the circuit of all GSB temples one day.

Pretty difficult especially if you are travelling with family. Just completed this circuit, and could do only 7 temples in one day. Probably, because we stayed at Bombatt's Kuldev's abode, Damodar Temple, Zambavilli.

The canteen at Damodar temple was not closed the whole day for Palki - just for the night. It functioned morning and (probably) noon.

We were told that since it is festival at Shantadurga temple (Bandora), rooms at all nearby temples too were full; and at Mahalasa temple, two marriages were taking place on two successive days. Rooms were available only from the day we started oru return journey!!!!

[whitemm550]

. Took another local bus to Zambaulim and reached the Temple at 9.00am. There is no direct bus from Madgaon bus station to Damodar Temple
.
hi,
nice of you to have visited the Damodar temple at Zambaulim, but there are buses, which take you directly to zambaulim. next time you plan to visit, do let me know, we are Mahajans of the temple

[prabhusati]

Originally Posted by whitemm550

. hi, nice of you to have visited the Damodar temple at Zambaulim, but there are buses, which take you directly to zambaulim. next time you plan to visit, do let me know, we are Mahajans of the temple

Thanks, I will inform you the next time I plan to visit Damodar Temple. It has been many years since I visited and feel that I should visit in the near future.

[deemash]

Originally Posted by BomBatt

As I sleep, thought comes to my mind about the history of our community - Gowda Saraswat Brahmins (Information given below was gathered from Internet and as told by elders)

Bumping on this thread too late, I guess.
Good to see the history of GSBs.
GSBs migrated to MH, KA, KL as well from Goa.

But why they did not migrate to Tamil Nadu? Even now, the presence of GSB Konkanas are really less in the TN when compared to KA/KL/MH.

Do you know any reason behind this?

Sorry for being

[chennai-indian]

Originally Posted by deemash

Bumping on this thread too late, I guess.
Good to see the history of GSBs.
GSBs migrated to MH, KA, KL as well from Goa.

But why they did not migrate to Tamil Nadu? Even now, the presence of GSB Konkanas are really less in the TN when compared to KA/KL/MH.

Do you know any reason behind this?

Sorry for being

Konkanis ran away from Goa during the Portuguese Inquisition and they settled in the coastal areas that they could reach which obviously are places like Mangalore in KA and Cochin/Kollam in Kerala. TN is on the other side of India.

[BaCkSeAtDrIVeR]

Originally Posted by deemash

But why they did not migrate to Tamil Nadu? Even now, the presence of GSB Konkanas are really less in the TN when compared to KA/KL/MH.

Do you know any reason behind this?

I think they simply migrated to the nearest town / port where they could find shellter. Thus, there are none in Malappuram district.

Udupi and Mangalore in KA, Kasargod, Payyannur, Kannur, Tellicherry, Kozhikode, Kodungallur, Kochi, Alleppey, Kayankulam, Kollam, etc. You wiĺ find GSB and non brahimin, Saraswat Konkani speakers in places where the Inquisition related migration took place, mostly adjoining waterways, like Cherthala, Thuravoor - Andikkadavu - Kannamaly stretch, Varapuzha, Chendamangalam, etc.

The next round of migration took place on employment and economic grounds. Thus places like Chennai and Coimbatore have a sizeable number of GSBs. Same applies for Thiruvananthapuram, Chalakudy, Trichur, Mala, etc. In places like Chalakudi, Muvattupuzha or Alive, most GSBs in such localities can be traced to one or two families of migrants.

[shivshanker]

Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR

Udupi and Mangalore in KA, Kasargod, Payyannur, Kannur, Tellicherry, Kozhikode, Kodungallur, Kochi, Alleppey, Kayankulam, Kollam, etc. You wiĺ find GSB and non brahimin, Saraswat Konkani speakers in places where the Inquisition related migration took place, mostly adjoining waterways, like Cherthala, Thuravoor - Andikkadavu - Kannamaly stretch, Varapuzha, Chendamangalam, etc.

One thing is for Sure with the GSB's all of them love their fish fry. Being a GSB myself I have been curious myself about our origins, as things are not as clear as they seem.

While all of us talk about GSB's migrating from Goa to avoid the Portuguese inquest, some things like what is a 500 year old "math" doing in Haridwar?. How and why did this Math get formed there 500 years ago if all Konkani's were in Goa.

Similarly, another Math in Walkeshwar Mumbai origins can be traced back to a few hundred years from today.

Off late, I met a gentleman named Nayak, by his surname he is a GSB, of all the places in Jo'burg South Africa, who hails from Orissa.

His first response to me was, I am supposed to be a Konkani speaking GSB, but settled for the past many generations in Orissa, we do not know how our ancestors landed in Orissa, they speak the local language at home.

So my submission is the migration started much earlier and from the mythical river Saraswati and all along people started scattering in different directions, that explains the Math in Haridwar and in Bengal too.

[gostel]

Thanks, Bombat, for this lovely post. I enjoyed watching the pictures and reading the text, more so as I have a maternal connection with Goa and Saraswats. Mangesha is the Kuldev of my mother's family while my cousins (Hegde) have their Kuldev at Zambaolin. My last visit to Goa and to Mangueshi was in 2010. Hope to visit there again someday in the near future. As far as I know, my mother's family first migrated to Bombay Walkeshwar and then shifted to Mahim. Both these places are Saraswat pockets. There is one Saraswat pocket at Tardeo and another at Girgaum (mini Goa) in Mumbai. I love fish fry, umm . . .

[chennai-indian]

Originally Posted by shivshanker

One thing is for Sure with the GSB's all of them love their fish fry. Being a GSB myself I have been curious myself about our origins, as things are not as clear as they seem.

While all of us talk about GSB's migrating from Goa to avoid the Portuguese inquest, some things like what is a 500 year old "math" doing in Haridwar?. How and why did this Math get formed there 500 years ago if all Konkani's were in Goa.

Similarly, another Math in Walkeshwar Mumbai origins can be traced back to a few hundred years from today.

Off late, I met a gentleman named Nayak, by his surname he is a GSB, of all the places in Jo'burg South Africa, who hails from Orissa.

His first response to me was, I am supposed to be a Konkani speaking GSB, but settled for the past many generations in Orissa, we do not know how our ancestors landed in Orissa, they speak the local language at home.

So my submission is the migration started much earlier and from the mythical river Saraswati and all along people started scattering in different directions, that explains the Math in Haridwar and in Bengal too.

Maths in Haridwar etc are there because of their religious significance not because of any mass migrations. It is an established fact that mass migration happened during the Portuguese Inquisition because of religious persecution.
Also, Konkani surname is typically spelled as "Naik" and not Nayak. There are many "Nayak" in Orissa and I do not think they are any way related to Konkani Naiks. For example, there are Konkani's with the surname "Rao" which is a very common surname in Andhra too.

[shivshanker]

Originally Posted by chennai-indian

Maths in Haridwar etc are there because of their religious significance not because of any mass migrations. It is an established fact that mass migration happened during the Portuguese Inquisition because of religious persecution.
Also, Konkani surname is typically spelled as "Naik" and not Nayak. There are many "Nayak" in Orissa and I do not think they are any way related to Konkani Naiks. For example, there are Konkani's with the surname "Rao" which is a very common surname in Andhra too.

To some extent, I can agree that the Maths in Haridwar might be there for religious significance, but when majority of the community is or rather was in M'lore or Udupi area and with the 8 Maths there around Krishna temple, why one more so far away.

To me the Maths are places for community worship and gatherings to listen to the discourse of the Guru's, when you do not have a Community there, the logic of creating a math so far away does not goes down well with me.

anyway this is my point of view, more views are welcome.

PS : I do not think we should continue the above debate anymore on this thread as it is not polite to discuss religion or caste.

On the second point apologies, do not agree with you Konkani speaking Naik's are not GSB's.

With regards to Naik's, there are various communities who sport this surname, I know of a few from Gujrati descent and also from Marathwada region in Maharashtra.

Thank you for confirming that there are many more Nayak's in Orissa, my friend could be a n extreme case as the lineage of the Nayak's in Orissa region has a different explanation by wikipedia.

[Red Liner]

A math in haridwar or rishikesh or benares built by a specific community, was built for the reason when people from that community travel to such places, it is easier to stay at the math you belong to rather than elsewhere. Each of these are the ultimate pilgrimage visits, high on everyones (at those times) agenda to visit once. No phones or email to make advance bookings on the interweb, you travel there over a period of a month or two and hopefully the math which belongs to your community will not turn you away when you arrive (and they won't, that is why they are built for that community).

Remember in the old days, there were no hotels or guesthouses; maths, choultries, and temples were the only places of stay and all of them were free with community kitchens. Kitchens were very important in the old days, purity of food, the utensils, the person cooking it et all. Communities that were meat eaters would not be allowed within a few feet of other castes, let alone the kitchen!

Then you have community specific worships, rituals, rites, all these were very important in those times, which if done in the math makes things far easier. My parents still consider it extremely important. It is only our generation that is probably making a break from it.

So most bigger communities pooled together and built up such places of haven for their people. They were usually built with the funding of one big sponsor with others chipping in if required. Having your gurus from the community visit such highly charged places and staying in the math built by the community they come from is a sign that the community has arrived and is a way of giving back to the guru.

If you visit benares and really explore... You will find many many such community based maths, temples, ashrams etc.

[shivshanker]

Originally Posted by whitemm550

. Took another local bus to Zambaulim and reached the Temple at 9.00am. There is no direct bus from Madgaon bus station to Damodar Temple
.
hi,
nice of you to have visited the Damodar temple at Zambaulim, but there are buses, which take you directly to zambaulim. next time you plan to visit, do let me know, we are Mahajans of the temple

Hi, When is Kowla Prasad please, phone lines are dead.

[prabhusati]

Originally Posted by shivshanker

hi, When is Kowla Prasad please, phone lines are dead.

Yes, the phone lines are dead. Try calling on the mobile numbers, 8459112479 or 9370136934.

[whitemm550]

Originally Posted by shivshanker

hi, When is Kowla Prasad please, phone lines are dead.

Oops, sorry, read it a bit late, yesterday was the last day.