[MNandy]

Totally new to this forum. Two observations only....
1. A fascinating reading this one.
2. You seem to be a very interesting personality indeed ! Just great !

[anilisanil]

Awesome pics of bekal fort. I always love forts near the beaches, being there gives me a sense of exhilaration :P

By the way, is this the place where that song oyire oyire of Bombay was shot?

[vrprabhu]

Originally Posted by f1fan

Ummm... Shevai.
BTW what is this called in other languages? Never knew that this was available in restaurants.

We call it shevai in Konkani too. In Tamil / Malayalam it is known as "Idiyappam".

Any small / medium sized hotel in Kerala will surely serve it - especially in the mornings..

Originally Posted by ASHISHPALLOD

@vrp, those forts in south don't look rigid like forts in Maharashtra.

Originally Posted by MX6

Our kings had a sense of honour and justice in War. Only when the barbarians from outside started attacking, they started looting and destroying. Which required the north to start building huge fortifications.

Originally Posted by ampere

That is very correct.In fact this philosophy is very well illustrated right through the Southern peninsula.

You are right, AP. My images of the fort were very text bookish, and these structures were pretty much different from what is generally described. Even Redfort in Delhi is more of an enclosure situated in the heart of the city - a sort of administrative centre?

To add to what MX6 and Ampere say, the forts were designed in such a way that the people living in the area would seek refuge within its walls during enemy attack - and the king takes care of his subjects. So the forts were mainly designed with barrack / administrative functions in mind, so that the soldiers and kings counsel could go about their work / duty - if I am not mistaken. Even today, Govt. of TN functions from Fort St. George - which faces the sea (after the Marina beach)....

Only when I started visiting the various forts in Maharashtra, I realised what it really is. Daulatabad remains as a memorable one - Shivaji certainly had the vision and could pick out the vantage points - and were designed to frustrate the mughal attacks....

Originally Posted by MNandy

1. A fascinating reading this one.
2. You seem to be a very interesting personality indeed ! Just great!

You are welcome, MNandy! Thank everybody who have taken pains to post their knowledge / info here....

Me - a personality?! Have to make sure that my wife and reads this post....

And, feel free to contribute - I am sure you'll have an enjoyable time here.


Even though the rains make things difficult for us travellers on the road, the following scenes made me realise that what a necessity it is for our people and our country.... a few snaps of the typical 'Gods Own Country!'









Only because of the hard work that people like them put in, you and I don't give a second thought about the availability of food on our table....

We finally reach Calicut by 7.00 PM - a good 11 hours after leaving Mangalore. Deducting the time spent on visiting relatives, Bekal and food - it was nearly 8 hours - which in normal conditions used to take only 6 hours. Express trains do it in 4 to 4.30 hours!

Return to Pune via Mangalore by train and bus. Not many pictures to post.
Will try to finish posting them today / tommorrow.

Because I am leaving for Calicut on Monday (06/09), and planning to drive down from Calicut to Pune by 13/09....

[MX6]

Originally Posted by vrprabhu

Only when I started visiting the various forts in Maharashtra, I realised what it really is. Daulatabad remains as a memorable one - Shivaji certainly had the vision and could pick out the vantage points - and were designed to frustrate the mughal attacks....

Shivaji didn't build a single fort. He went capturing them. That what makes the legend really amazing!

[ASHISHPALLOD]

Originally Posted by MX6

Shivaji didn't build a single fort. He went capturing them. That what makes the legend really amazing!

Oh Mx6!!!


Shivaji built 180 forts.

To name few,

rajgad, sindhudurga,......

[MX6]

Originally Posted by ASHISHPALLOD

Oh Mx6!!!


Shivaji built 180 forts.

To name few,

rajgad, sindhudurga,......

That's what I thought too AP. But a good friend who has been researching this came with some amazing facts.
Shivaji was chattrapati from 1674 to 1680 (period of 6 years). In this he led amazing conquests and captured many forts.
As per wiki he is credited to have built 300 forts which I doubt because it stumps me to think how one can build 300 forts in 6 years of reign in which many a battles were fought.
My friend told me interesting stories of many a conquests of Shivaji maharaj. The most alluring one being his capture of Sinhagad fort where Tanaji scaled the sheer walls using a reptile (Ghorpad)!

Coming to Raigad, this is what wiki has to say about the fort.

Shivaji Maharaj had seized the fort in 1656, then the fortress of Rairi, from the royal house of the Chandrarrao Mores, a junior or Cadet dynasty descended from the ancient Maurya imperial dynasty. The last More king (or raja) was a feudatory of the Sultan of Bijapur. Shivaji renovated and expanded the Fortress of Rairi and renamed it Raigad (the King's Fort), the name he gave it when he selected it for his capital when he founded the Maratha empire.

So Sivaji is credited to have expanded and renovated the fort. Not built it. His own capital.

So I tend to believe my friend's great stories on how shivaji captures forts around. He might have renovated and further fortified them. But then, he captured those on the first place.

About sindhudurg, what interests and intriques me is that Sivaji is credited to have taken 30 years to build this from 1664 till 1694. That's 14 years after sivaji's death and 16 years when he was alive in which 10 years when he wasn't chatrapathi.
Now why did shivaji start building the fort 10 years before he proclaimed himself the maratha emperor? What made him start with sindhudurg fort 8 years after he grabbed Raigad?
If he was king, then who was he under (he broke away in 1974 to be the independant ruler of marathas) when he started building sindhudurg fort.
Interesting questions.
He freed the marathas from the sultanate of Bijapur. He fought the moghuls and became chattrapathi. The exact chronology is what I'm trying to build. So even the Sindhudurg fort building is debatable.

[ASHISHPALLOD]

Originally Posted by MX6

1]Shivaji was chattrapati from 1674 to 1680 (period of 6 years). In this he led amazing conquests and captured many forts.
2]As per wiki he is credited to have built 300 forts which I doubt because it stumps me to think how one can build 300 forts in 6 years of reign in which many a battles were fought.
3]My friend told me interesting stories of many a conquests of Shivaji maharaj. The most alluring one being his capture of Sinhagad fort where he's scaled the sheer walls using a reptile!

4]Coming to Raigad, this is what wiki has to say about the fort.
Fortress of Rairi and renamed it Raigad (the King's Fort), the name he gave it when he selected it for his capital when he founded the Maratha empire.

5]So Sivaji is credited to have expanded and renovated the fort. Not built it. His own capital.

6]So I tend to believe my friend's great stories on how shivaji captures forts around. He might have renovated and further fortified them. But then, he captured those on the first place.

7]Now why did shivaji start building the fort 10 years before he proclaimed himself the maratha emperor? What made him start with sindhudurg fort 8 years after he grabbed Raigad?

1]/2] Though shivaji was chhatrapati for six years only, that does not mean that he built those forts during that six years only.

3]Shivaji himself never scaled that wall of sinhgad using reptile, his sardar, Tanaji Malusare did it.

4]That is true about RAIGAD but i had posted tha name of RAJGAD in my earlier post.

5]Rairi was a small fort, Shivaji captured that fort and rebuilt it under the supervision of sardar Ingole[ name may be somewhat different].

6] Shivaji captured many forts and built some forts from scratch.

7] One can built any fort before he proclaim himself as a king and shivaji had done exactly that.
@sindhudurga, shivaji is supposed to be the founder of Indian navy, the fort of sindhudurga was aimed and located to check the naval activities along coastal area of that region where then Portuguese Goa was as enemy neighbor.


@VRP,

sorry for ot,

[MX6]

Yes, AP. My post doesn't take the sheen out of any thing Shivaji did. He is the greatest emperor produced by marathas, who used guerilla warfare to amazing effects. His stories are so profound that actors from far flung TN have played Shivaji with aplomb and have made names out of such roles!
Rest of the reply below in bold.

Originally Posted by ASHISHPALLOD

1]/2] Though shivaji was chhatrapati for six years only, that does not mean that he built those forts during that six years only.
True. But that also means that he owed allegiance to someone till then. I also read that there were three muslim rulers with whom shivaji had varied allegiances and differences, and finally he fought all. So he might have built these being ruled by other kings or sultans and that's why he went capturing the very forts. Unfortunately, history credits the build of these forts to the emperor and not the smaller kings reporting to him.

3]Shivaji himself never scaled that wall of sinhgad using reptile, his sardar, Tanaji Malusare did it.
Yes, Sorry for the typo. I realised soon after posting. Shivaji incidentally reached this fort after the seige and found Tanasi's arm cut off and dead. He's supposed to have proclaimed that they seized the fort, but lost the lion. Hence sinhagad.

4]That is true about RAIGAD but i had posted tha name of RAJGAD in my earlier post.
Oh. My apologies. I misread as Raigad.

5]Rairi was a small fort, Shivaji captured that fort and rebuilt it under the supervision of sardar Ingole[ name may be somewhat different].
Ofcourse, if a fort can be seized, that means it's vulnerable. So every king who seized a fort immediately started fortifying it further. So Sivaji didn't build it from scratch was my point. He seized the forts. And it is on expected lines that they fortify it after capturing the same. Only invaders from across border used to invade, seize, pillory, plunder, loot, destroy and go away. Shivaji is chattrapathi maharaj of Marathas. He captured, stenghthened and ruled.

6] Shivaji captured many forts and built some forts from scratch.
That list is what I want to do some research AP. As per my friend, Shivaji has not built any fort from scratch. He's captured all in western ghats and added to their defences and built them bigger.

@VRP,

sorry for ot,

I guess this is one OT VRP would be proud of.

[ASHISHPALLOD]

Originally Posted by MX6

My post doesn't take the sheen out of any thing Shivaji did. He is the greatest emperor produced by marathas, who used guerilla warfare to amazing effects.

Shivaji fought against adilshahi, kutubshahi, nizamshahi and mughals to form THE HINDAVI KINGDOM.[ not hindu kingdom]
He never worked or reported to anyone as his boss.
He was self made Hindu king.
He captured first fort , The Torana , when he was just 16 years old.
He built his first capital, Rajgad, from scratch.
He expanded area under his control by fighting the wars, capturing forts.
He built new forts to keep control on captured area.
The RAJGAD fort, he built, supposed to be the best fort in all aspects, rated as best fort in the world.
He played all tactics of war and politics to safegaurd his new HINDAVI KINGDOM.

He was great warrior and equally great king.

[MX6]

AP saab. I'd better not carry on this discussion in VRPs stress buster log. It will increase stress and get me killed in Kaas!


But trust me, my friend has gone beyond school book history. I have read about the hindavi kingdom and his conquests around. Is there any documented evidence that Rajgad was built from scratch? I do know that's Sivaji's favourite fort (king of all forts).
I've been searching for information on the built from scratch part. It is difficult to separate fables from historical facts for a person like me as I'm not working in that field. Finally when it comes to it, I'm just a person who loves driving.
Anyone can build a fort. Capturing it makes him a bigger hero. I understood that fact by playing games like age of empires, evony etc. That's what makes Shivaji a great warrior and emperor. Because capturing forts is not for the ordinary. (guess now I can bravely face you in kaas).


Guess let's leave this OT now and have them in the other Magnificent Maharashtra log. Else, VRP will have a new extension - Voluntarily Retired Poster.

[ASHISHPALLOD]

Originally Posted by vrprabhu

Not many pictures to post.
Will try to finish posting them today / tommorrow.

@VRP,
waiting for your next post.

I and mx6 have finished with our OT.

[vrprabhu]

he he he he....

BTW, VRP is thinking of 'voluntarily' resigning from something else - and not this forum or the postings....

Originally Posted by MX6

Shivaji didn't build a single fort. He went capturing them. That what makes the legend really amazing!

Originally Posted by ASHISHPALLOD

Oh Mx6!!!

Shivaji built 180 forts. To name few,

rajgad, sindhudurga,......

Originally Posted by MX6

As per wiki he is credited to have built 300 forts which I doubt because it stumps me to think how one can build 300 forts in 6 years of reign in which many a battles were fought.

At the risk of putting my head on the guillotine (), I must admit that I was stirring up a hornests' there....... no disrespect to Shivaji or the Forts or who actually built them, but why does there seem to be controversy on this subject?

All said and done, the forts stand today are testimony to vision, acumen and skill of our ancestors!


Oh, I forgot to add - MX6, your quoting wiki reminds me of Robert Langdon, who says 'Google doesn't mean research!'

[MX6]

There's no controversy here. We are trying to bring out the greatness of Shivaji in our own ways, with the knowledge we possess and the one we seek.

Yes. I agree to Robert Langdon that google doesn't mean research. That's why I talk a lot to people and analyse local ballads. And school text books don't mean research too. We all know that history has been re-written in our school books.

Even 180 forts being built during Shivaji's time requires a lot of logistics, man-power, especially when fighting and quelling enemies. Hence I'm trying to probe in to the historicity of these great forts that withstood the test of times.

But if Shivaji did build 180 forts along with capturing and fighting for so many other in his Adult life spanning 34 years (I also read that he came back as a 16 year old to start his conquests and lived for 50 years), then we need more of shivajis. Because it's been taking us donkey years to board of a GQ and the konkan rail!

[ASHISHPALLOD]

Originally Posted by vrprabhu

Robert Langdon, who says 'Google doesn't mean research!'[/i]

Originally Posted by MX6

There's no controversy here. school text books don't mean research too. We all know that history has been re-written in our school books.

Even 180 forts being built during Shivaji's time requires a lot of logistics, man-power, especially when fighting and quelling enemies.
But if Shivaji did build 180 forts along with capturing and fighting for so many other in his Adult life spanning 34 years (I also read that he came back as a 16 year old to start his conquests and lived for 50 years), then we need more of shivajis. Because it's been taking us donkey years to board of a GQ and the konkan rail!

How about a trek to RAJGAD and there we will discuss in depth who built the forts ,year by year, fort by fort, with help of text book, bakhar, google bhai with its wiki beta also

Are you ready?

just kidding.

[f1fan]

Oh boy ... Few posts back we were talking about "Shevai/Indian Noodle" and "Khet Khalihan" and now I see MX6 and Ashish discussing about Shivaji.

I have a feeling that the next chapter of this discussion would happen during our Kaas trip

Looking forward to it!!