[rajeev k]

A guy working with me had similar problems with two JKs in his 2008 wagon R which had clocked below 20K Kms. In 2010 he got one tyre free from Maruti under warranty and he paid for one. Dealer was Indus, Muvattupuzha.

Originally Posted by GTO

JK Vectras are amongst the worst tyres I've ever used. Hard as a rock, high levels of noise (the loudest tyre IMHO) and very poor grip levels.

I am in full agreement with this. After 18K my car was all over the place above 80/90 kmph and God saves every one who apply brake with a similar Vectra. I did a mistake by not taking up the issue with Maruti.

[lancer_rit]

Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt

This is why i said I would confuse you if I responded. It's really not a debate when the likes of Ford, Toyota, Mercedes, Chrysler etc have had experiences which have caused them to issue advisories. Stating that one will not heed the warnings of the most reputed automobile companies in the world is not really an informed position especially when it involves safety of self and family. At the end of the day, the information is for one to act as one chooses. However it would certainly be good for one to keep this info in mind when speeding down the highway in a car shod with 6 year old tyres.

@VeyronSuperSport, but it is a debate which has SupremeBaleno extremely polarised - I fully agree with what you're saying, please look up another thread where I posted in detail with lot of findings and study results. He still insists "the average" tyre can last 10 years :-(

While he is entitled to his opinion (he also says he drives almost entirely in the city, at lowish speeds - so his conditions maybe unlike the average user), I feel its important for the wider tbhp community, that others who feel strongly against using tyres for longer than 5-6 years (on the average), say so! Its a crucial matter of safety, and lakhs of rupees of safety gadgets in the car won't compensate for tyre failure if it strikes. For me, its a matter of minimizing probability - as an analogy, we can also change engine oil after 20k km (or 2 years), and in some kind of driving style, conditions etc, the engine 'maybe' fine, but GTO recommends 7-8k for even synthetic oil! So, definitely, for the average user, 20k km or 2 years, is too long for 'safe' operation!

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt

It's really not a debate when the likes of Ford, Toyota, Mercedes, Chrysler etc have had experiences which have caused them to issue advisories. Stating that one will not heed the warnings of the most reputed automobile companies in the world is not really an informed position especially when it involves safety of self and family.

I would (and do) definitely heed their warnings when it comes to something about the car - the engine, oil-change, parts change etc. But I would listen to the tyre manufacturer when it comes to tyres - dont you think they who spend all their effort making just tyres know more about it than say Maruti or Fiat ?

Originally Posted by lancer_rit

@VeyronSuperSport, but it is a debate which has SupremeBaleno extremely polarised - I fully agree with what you're saying, please look up another thread where I posted in detail with lot of findings and study results. He still insists "the average" tyre can last 10 years :-(

Saar, our debate on the "what was the life of your tyres?" thread was pretty fresh in memory and since nothing came out of our many posts on that thread with each sticking to their view, I at the start of this thread itself told VeyronSuperSport that we will get nowhere with our discussion.

And regarding your comment "he still insists the average tyre can last 10 years", it is not me that is insisting that, the makers of the tyre themselves say that - checkout the previous page of this thread. I would give them some credit for knowing about the stuff they churn out.

Originally Posted by lancer_rit

as an analogy, we can also change engine oil after 20k km (or 2 years), and in some kind of driving style, conditions etc, the engine 'maybe' fine

This is not a correct analogy. While the car maker clearly specifies the engine-oil change duration (5K / 10K / 15K depending on car), tyre companies do not do that. Infact I doubt any car manual in India even specifies tyre-change duration - at best there would be some tips on care and usage, rotation/alignment etc.

And when I checked out our A-Star_AT today, it also has the same JK-Vectra on it as OE. I wonder what is in store with those in the coming years.

[lancer_rit]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Saar, our debate on the "what was the life of your tyres?" thread was pretty fresh in memory and since nothing came out of our many posts on that thread with each sticking to their view, I at the start of this thread itself told VeyronSuperSport that we will get nowhere with our discussion.

As you say, let's agree to disagree ... However, I feel better if you don't keep your car's tyres for 10 years, and I mean that in all earnestness.

And regarding your comment "he still insists the average tyre can last 10 years", it is not me that is insisting that, the makers of the tyre themselves say that - checkout the previous page of this thread. I would give them some credit for knowing about the stuff they churn out.

That's not what tyre manufacturers claim - I have read about the subject atleast as much as you have. I already posted in detail on the other thread. Tyre manufacturers _never_ claimed that the average tyre lasts 10 years. They only said, if someone is still running tyres which get to 10 years, they must junk those immediately. Mostly, they expect the average life of a tyre is ~6years give or take. If one finds with "atleast an annual tyre inspection by a tyre expert", that their car's tyres are fine, they can carry on subject to tread depth.

This is not a correct analogy. While the car maker clearly specifies the engine-oil change duration (5K / 10K / 15K depending on car), tyre companies do not do that. Infact I doubt any car manual in India even specifies tyre-change duration - at best there would be some tips on care and usage, rotation/alignment etc.

Probably not an exact analogy. But we all know that if you did drive your car for 7k instead of 5k specified, there are good chances nothing happens to the engine. But its a matter of probability and erring on the side of caution. In the same manner, even if the car manufacturer says 20k/1year for synthetic oil change, team-bhp recommends oil change @ less than half the same! The tyre manufacturers ask you to exercise the same in assessing the condition of your car's tyres to decide on replacement.

[VeyronSuperSprt]

Originally Posted by lancer_rit

I feel its important for the wider tbhp community, that others who feel strongly against using tyres for longer than 5-6 years (on the average), say so!

Not to worry, I think there is sufficient information on this thread and folks reading would be giving due consideration to the safety issues involved. I am sure most on this forum will listen to the likes of Toyota, Mercedes etc when it comes to safety.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

But I would listen to the tyre manufacturer when it comes to tyres .

Speak to anyone in Michelin India / Bridgestone and hear about the life of their tyres from them. Their websites will not carry this information for various reasons.

And now in a more light hearted vein :

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

I would heed their warnings when it comes to something about the car - the engine, oil-change, parts change etc.

1. So the tyre which is manufactured by JK / Bridgestone is not a part of the car.

2. And so, extending your argument, the oil manufactured by Castrol / Indianoil should also not be a part of the car.

3. And the pistons, rings, valves, exhaust systems, suspensions manufactured by third parties are also not a part of the car.

4. And since the oil manufacturers do not mention anything on their websites about the oil change period, the manufacturer's instructions need not be heeded as they do not know as much about the oil as the oil manufacturers do.

5. And since there is no part which is manufactured by the car manufacturer (including the sheet metal of the body which is only pressed in-house) there is really no need to listen to the manufacturer's instruction on any part of the car too

[supremeBaleno]

^^^As mentioned earlier, the car manufacturer clearly lists an oil-change interval in the manual and most people (I do) follow that. If you say that we need to follow the car-manufacturers instruction for tyre-replacement, sure, by all means - but then they have to have this in the manual. Show me one manual that has an exact time/mileage period in it for tyre-replacement.

You guys want to change your tyres every 5 years or even 2 years, please go ahead - I have absolutely no issues with that. Apart from reading stuff on the web (authenticity of which is debatable, apart from the conditions/places it applies to), there is something called actual user-experience. My point is simple : After using cars since 1985, this is the first time I have had 3 of the 5 OE tyres go bad in as less as 5 years. Including one that had the steel belt crack up. This is not because the tyre is 5 years old, but because the tyre quality is crappy.

[VeyronSuperSprt]

For the information and safety of the larger TBHP community:

That the life of a tyre is a maximum of 6 years is not an area of doubt. Those of you who have interacted with the tyre manufacturing community and have had discussions in this area would be clear in this regard. While a lack of clarity on the life of a car battery or a spark plug is not life threatening, a doubt on the life of a tyre is one area that correct information would go a long way to help protect TBHP members and their family.

Michelin India states 6 years to be the life a tyre. Bridgestone actually says it is lower than 6 years (a max of 5 years is what they say). It would be a safe practice to assume the life of other Indian brands (JK, MRF, GoodYear etc) to be between 4 -5 years.

Direct contact coordinates of Michelin India officials are available should anyone need further confirmation.

Happy and safe Motoring!

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by invincible7

Well I have got a Swift ZXI which was shod with JK Vectra tyres and have used them for 50K kms without any issues.

Completely agree. I had the OEM JKs (the one cheaper than the vectras) on my Swift and I drive reasonably hard IN the city. I changed them a bit past 50k when the braking got hairy in the wet - else in the dry/gravel/puncture proofing department they were just fine.

Another theory - my JKs did 50k in under two years - yours have lasted 5 years. Does alot of standing in the sun or simple age have anything to do with the behavior you noticed? I'm just suggesting that it may be bad luck or deterioration due to the elements.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt

That the life of a tyre is a maximum of 6 years is not an area of doubt.

Even assuming that the life is 6 years (though I did not find any such mention on the site of any tyre-manufacturer), the problem with one of the tyres on our car started at around 2-3 years (when after 2 punctures the tyre had to be made a tube-type) - what is the point in having tubeless, if you have to run it with tube in it ? Will you now say that Indian tyres are good only for 2 years and should be replaced after that time ?

And even the other 2 tyres that were replaced due to swelling / not being repairable, were only 5 years old. That is the point of this thread and many others have reported same/similar issues with the tyres in question - JK Tyres Vectra.

Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt

Those of you who have interacted with the tyre manufacturing community and have had discussions in this area would be clear in this regard. Michelin India states 6 years to be the life a tyre. Bridgestone actually says it is lower than 6 years (a max of 5 years is what they say). It would be a safe practice to assume the life of other Indian brands (JK, MRF, GoodYear etc) to be between 4 -5 years.

Not everyone has contacts with tyre companies or have chances to interact with them. So, when you say that Michelin states tyre-life to be 6 years and Bridgestone says it is 5 years max, it would really help if you can provide here links to that effect. From what is posted on their sites, they do not really hazard a guess about tyre-life and at best Michelin asks to replace tyres at 10 years.

Given your strong conviction about tyre-life being anywhere between 4-6 years depending on make, it would help if you could create a thread about what the community thinks about tyre-life and what they practice - ie. do they change tyres based on years or based on wear and if it is the former, at what number of years do they replace tyres? A poll would give info about tyre-change behaviour of those on the forum. This thread is about bad quality (durable life specifically, because I don't really care about tyre noise and stuff, which an enthusiast would worry about) of a specific tyre brand/model which even assuming the life to be 6 years has proven to be of crappy quality even early on in the life span (2-5 years).

[invincible7]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Completely agree. I had the OEM JKs (the one cheaper than the vectras) on my Swift and I drive reasonably hard IN the city. I changed them a bit past 50k when the braking got hairy in the wet - else in the dry/gravel/puncture proofing department they were just fine.

Another theory - my JKs did 50k in under two years - yours have lasted 5 years. Does alot of standing in the sun or simple age have anything to do with the behavior you noticed? I'm just suggesting that it may be bad luck or deterioration due to the elements.

Well this reminds me mine also were changed within 2 yrs of ownership since my traveling is a lot in the city. Yeah can be one of the reasons why ours experience were not that bad with the JK.

[ankan.m.blr]

My Ritz has 1.5 yrs old JK Vectra .2 of the tires are missing chunks of rubber in 4-5 places as shown in the pic. JK tires are totally crappy; not sure I can exchange them with tire dealers after almost 8K kms run.

[sgiitk]

Let us give the devil his due - JK were the first in India with steel belted radials. Their technology is still in the same age!

I am sorry for being nasty, try and find what the letters J K stand for. You will have the answer.

[ankan.m.blr]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Let us give the devil his due - JK were the first in India with steel belted radials. Their technology is still in the same age!

I am sorry for being nasty, try and find what the letters J K stand for. You will have the answer.

google tell JK stands for founders jugilal kamlapat; but I am not sure what you ment by "You will have the answer". I am basically from West Bengal, so do not know what these 2 words mean in (probably) Hindi :(

[supremeBaleno]

That,s what I also got from Google and inspite of growing up in North India and knowing Hindi, I also could not make a connection with what sgiitk mentioned.

[sgiitk]

ankar.m.blr and supremebaleno; Jugi is Jhuggi!