[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by invincible7

You case seems to be very different though, just curious to know do you regularly keep a check on tyre pressure and wheel alignment/balancing at regular service times.

Tyre pressures are checked regularly - which is aided by the fact that we have a portable hand-held compressor in each car.

Originally Posted by swarnava.m

Agreed!! I had JK Tyres on my Alto, and experienced the exact same issues. Though this happened after 60k km, so it was time to change them anyways. But I had the same problem of the tyre swelling up along the circumference, and it also split along the tread, which used to make the car jump on one side.

In your case at 60K kms, the tyre has put in enough service and I would not really bother whether it swelled or retracted, but in my case it was ~20K kms, which is too low for a tyre to go bad.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Neither am I... Read here - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...d-failure.html.

Hmm, that was a wierd way of tyre failure - again JK Vectras !!

Originally Posted by Acclero

I have seen a similar problem in my friends car the issue was caused due to - prolonged non-usage of car.

While our usage is indeed low by general standards, it is not like the car stays rooted at the same spot for days - it is used regularly but each trip is around 10kms max. Long runs are rare - once/twice a month or so.

Originally Posted by souravc

Ditto here . I had JK Vectras on my Swift ZXi , out of the 4 tyres there was tyre failure in two . The way they happened convinced me that JK Tyres are really crapped . The outer layer of the tyres just peeled off . The tyres had done 32-33K kms , mostly city driving. I will never touch a JK tyre again

Your failure seems same as what SS-Traveller experienced with his tyres.

Originally Posted by Harbir

Please don't assume that just because its tubeless, it will deflate slowly and allow you to drive on. It is much more likely to do so than a tubed tyre, but it can also go just as suddenly as a tubed tyre and be wrecked if it happens.

True. And the part in Bold is what I meant.

Originally Posted by rajeev k

Me too had it. My 2005 Swift's JK Vectras failed at 30K Kms and had changed two tyres and out of the remaining three two best was doing duty upfront till 33K. One tyre gave me a bumpy ride between Calicut and Palghat and initially I thought that the balancing weights had fallen off or the discs got distorted. The fault was with the tyre similar to what supremebaleno mentioned.

Another case similar as mine and same JK Vectras.

Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt

If your tyre is an Indian brand (JK, MRF and even Goodyear etc) and is around 4 - 5 years old, please expect a tyre failure regardless of the mileage covered. It isn't safe anymore and please do not use 5 year old Indian branded tyres for long distances / high speed driving.

While your post has been informative about what tyres do, I do not really want to comment on the recommended duration for tyre change and the Indian vs Foreign tyre life expectancy part in your post, because we will get nowhere with the discussion, as I learnt on another thread. We would both be talking from our individual experience and both would have valid points, adding to the deadlock. But in general, most people would change tyres based on remaining tread than counting the years.

My shock at the JKs giving up so early is based on my 27 year experience with tyres on our cars. The 1st set of car-tyres we used were the Modi Continentals that came OE on our 1985 M800 - the car was very sparingly used since it was at Kerala, while me and Dad were @ Chennai and dropping in only once a month or so. Still, they served well for 40K kms and were replaced only in 1998 when the treads wore out. They never bulged in all those years. As mentioned in the initial post, 4 of the 5 tyres of my 60K run Baleno are still as good as new - no bulges here either. The MRFs on our '99 M800 were also replaced due to tread wear around 50K or so - no bulges here too. This was why it shocked me when I saw 3 of the 5 OE JKs have issues on the Swift.

Originally Posted by getsurya

Completely agree with your experience. I too had a similiar issue with BossI(My first scorpio) riding on JK Elanzo's. Two of the four tyres started swellling right after ~20k on odo. JK tyres are very bad for their quality and must be bribing thier way through for the OEM supply chain!

Another issue with JKs - though different tyre model.

Originally Posted by dhanushs

I have heard (no concrete info) that Maruti sources these tyres for just about ~300-500/piece.

I do agree that OE tyres are a volume business and so manufacturers would get fat discounts, but still when a new tyre retails at anywhere between 4K-5K, I doubt the OE would be sold at 1/10th that price. And even if that is true, I doubt only Maruti would be sourcing low - all manufacturers would be getting similar pricing from the tyre companies.

Originally Posted by sudev

Statistical data from a large sample base would be needed before blaming any one make/brand. One or many punctures in itself cannot be a criterion of good bad tyre. Unless they are used on same road by two vehicles at same time - not the best but nearest replication.

While some (Eddy, invincible7, DaiKatana) have not had any issues with JKs, there are also members who have reported the same/similar issues with JKs - so it is not like mine is a one in a 1000 case. And the issue was not about "one or many punctures" as you mentioned, but about tyres swelling up and having to be replaced after a couple of punctures.

[VeyronSuperSprt]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

We would both be talking from our individual experience

This is not from individual experience but from industry advisories issued by car manufacturers. There are several such data on the net but I am giving one of them with some excerpts from the link below:

1. Ford, which has had its share of about tire safety problems, is urging consumers to replace their tires after six years.

2. Japan's Toyota Motor Corp. have long warned drivers that tires are perishable and many use six years as the cut-off point.

3. DaimlerChrysler's Mercedes division also tells drivers that tires last only six years.

4. Chrysler now includes a similar warning in its owners manuals.

5. The British Rubber Manufacturers recommends that used tires should not be put into service if they are over six years old.


Ford Urges Replacing Tires After Six Years

There are several such data on the net regarding this.

Happy Motoring

[supremeBaleno]

Thanks, VeyronSuperSprt. I thought you were talking from personal experience.

While I do think there could be valid reasons behind the advisories, isn't there a flip side in that these are coming from the tyre-manufacturers who would be the beneficiaries if people start changing tyres every 6 years even if the tread is good ? With OE purchases not bringing in margins, the retail purchases are where the butter comes for them and if people keep running tyres till they wear out, these firms would lose, wont they ? Just thinking out aloud !!!

Ofcourse the other downside to this is the eco-impact due to the replaced-every-6-years-before-they-wear-down tyres ending up in landfills...

[musicmanaman]

I had similar experience with JK Vectra’s on my Logan, 2 tyres had bulged out of shape and all of them were having punctures now and then, all this at 37k kms, my steering was wobbling due to this and the car was pulling to one side. I have recently bought MRF ZLO, and can’t comment much, but they are soft tyres compared to the JK’s and the ride quality is better for sure. One thing though is I’m assuming my mileage would go down slightly as these tyres seems to be the sticky type and needs more gas to keep moving, rolling resistance is the term I guess for it.

I was so fed-up with the JK’s that I wanted to put tube type tyres in my car, but could not find tube type tires for the Logan, read on Team BHP about some good reviews of the MRF ZLO’s and the price too seemed reasonable at Rs 4000 a piece, so went ahead and bought 4 of them, the spare wheel is the JK for now, hope I never have to use it.

[riturajsharma19]

My Punto Active came with JK Tornadoes. The ride quality is jittery, to say the least, on uneven patches. Let's not even mention the noise - they create an absolute racket.

[VeyronSuperSprt]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

these are coming from the tyre-manufacturers who would be the beneficiaries if people start changing tyres every 6 years even if the tread is good ?

If I respond to your quote above I might confuse you, but let me attempt and try to clarify too. It is quite the opposite of your observation mentioned above - I quote from the same thread:

"The tire industry disagrees and says that tires are safe as long as the tread depth is a minimum of 1/16th of an inch, no matter what the age, and as long as there are no visible cuts, signs of uneven wear, bulges or excessive cracking."

Please do not go by this quote from the tyre industry and also do note that car manufacturers do not stand to gain anything at a commercial level by issuing the safety advisories.

Incidentally, looking at your Swift's tyre, a keen driver would have certainly noticed a bit of wobbling / uneven running before the burst happened.

Cheers !

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt

"The tire industry disagrees and says that tires are safe as long as the tread depth is a minimum of 1/16th of an inch, no matter what the age, and as long as there are no visible cuts, signs of uneven wear, bulges or excessive cracking."

I like the line of thought above and most people generally go with what the tyre-cos mention above when coming to changing tyres. Also for a product, should we not be trusting the company that made it (tyre-cos in this case) more than the car-cos ?

Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt

do note that car manufacturers do not stand to gain anything at a commercial level by issuing the safety advisories.

I meant that the tyre-cos stand to gain since one of the advisories was from "British Rubber Manufacturers". Regarding the car-cos issuing advisories, there could be other causes too - eg, the infamous issues Ford had with their Explorer range due to the Firestone tyre issue.

Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt

Incidentally, looking at your Swift's tyre, a keen driver would have certainly noticed a bit of wobbling / uneven running before the burst happened

Well, there was no tyre-burst in the first place. And yes, the problem was immediately noticed (even by a normal driver that my BIL is) when the bulge appeared on their drive to Kodai and because the bulge was so big that the car was bumping on the road.

EDIT : I guess what you assumed as a "burst" is how the tyre looked after releasing the air while changing to new tyre. With the air inside, the tyre looked like in the 1st pic - kind of bent out of shape.

[rajshenoy]

Hmmm..Scary.. I just upgraded to Yoko A drives before using my stock JK tornadoes for 5 years(45K)

Apart from the usual issues(noisy, hard etc etc) Atleast they did their job on all types of roads. After all they are so cheap.

But looking at the shape of your rubber, Scary !!!!

[VeyronSuperSprt]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

go with what the tyre-cos mention above when coming to changing tyres.

Most tyre companies like Michelin, Bridgestone etc advise the life of a tyre to be 6 years.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Regarding the car-cos issuing advisories, there could be other causes-

Yes, exactly the reason for the advisories - they have had various experiences. Most advisories are on the basis of experience.

[GTO]

JK Vectras are amongst the worst tyres I've ever used. Hard as a rock, high levels of noise (the loudest tyre IMHO) and very poor grip levels. If ever I'm testing a new car that is shod with Vectras, I know it's going to be an unpleasant driving experience.

Equally, I must add that the OEM JK Brutes on my Mahindra were extremely robust. They sure took the abuse well. Lasted a good 6 years with zero damage, on-road grip levels were decent (by the standards of 1997) and they wore out real slow.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt

Most tyre companies like Michelin, Bridgestone etc advise the life of a tyre to be 6 years.

I would surely give weightage to the recommendation from the tyre manufacturer, but there does not seem to be very useful insights on their websites. Sample the following :

1)Bridgestone India has this to say :
Tyre Change
• The tyre being used currently should be replaced with a new tyre when the tread wear indicator (1.6mm height) is exposed.

No mention of age of tyre as a factor for replacement. I did scan other sections on their site like tyre-care, tyre-knowledge, but did not find any reference.

2) MRF :
• What is the approximate life of a set of tyres?
The life of your tyres depends on several factors: the condition of your vehicle and the roads you drive on, driving habits, etc. However road tests have showed that under similar conditions, MRF Steel Belted Radials last considerably longer than other radial in its class.

Again no mention of tyre-age as a factor for replacement.

3) Michelin India :

They have comparitively more info on tyre-life as a factor for replacement.

They start off by saying "The usable life of tyres varies enormously and is impossible to predict." They then suggest inspection of tyres by a specialist every year after 5 years of use.

And finally they say "As a precaution, if the tyres have not been replaced 10 years from their date of manufacture, Michelin recommends replacing them with new tyres even if they appear to be in usable condition and have not worn down to the tread wear indicator.

So, even with Michelin, the verdict seems to be that 10years is usable life.

[n_aditya]

Biju, quite a shocker to see a tire deformed so severely. I doubt if even truck tires look so bad after they have lived their lives.

Agree with you on the pathetic quality of the tires. Our esteem was shod with JK Ultima tube typed tires from the factory (2002 model so still came with tube types). One particular tire was prone to punctures and went flat within a few weeks of ownership (culprit was a small piece of a safety pin). Another time i faced a puncture on the way back to Blore from Chennai late at night.

Didn't want to continue with these tube typed tires so wore them off on the track and got michelin XM1 tubeless.

[noopster]

My Swift had OEM JK Tornados when I bought them at 3 years/30,000 km. I drove them till about 52,000 clicks then the vehicle started losing grip big time and most times I couldn't even hear the stereo over the din they created! Had a couple of punctures in different tyres in the same week and realised their time was up!

Changed to Yoko A drives after that and it's been wonderful. I seriously doubt I would stick to JK tyres if they came OE with a new car I bought.

[VeyronSuperSprt]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

there does not seem to be very useful insights on their websites.

Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt

If I respond to your quote above I might confuse you,

This is why i said I would confuse you if I responded. It's really not a debate when the likes of Ford, Toyota, Mercedes, Chrysler etc have had experiences which have caused them to issue advisories. Stating that one will not heed the warnings of the most reputed automobile companies in the world is not really an informed position especially when it involves safety of self and family. At the end of the day, the information is for one to act as one chooses. However it would certainly be good for one to keep this info in mind when speeding down the highway in a car shod with 6 year old tyres.

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

I do agree that OE tyres are a volume business and so manufacturers would get fat discounts, but still when a new tyre retails at anywhere between 4K-5K, I doubt the OE would be sold at 1/10th that price. And even if that is true, I doubt only Maruti would be sourcing low - all manufacturers would be getting similar pricing from the tyre companies.

Hi SB,

What I meant is, OE tyres are mostly cheap ones. As, tyres are one of the major areas to cut costs for manufacturers. Maruti especially uses really cheap and undersized tyres in their hatches.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

just about 22000kms in the last 5 years

Originally Posted by dhanushs

I would worry more about longevity of these tyres than mileage.

22k in 5 years is very low running, and these rubber's deteriorate fast when kept idle.

Hence, my point is: If the OEM tyre is cheap, change it regardless of mileage, if you start to see even slight cracks or bulges. 5 years is a good time to change tyres.