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Old 29th May 2019, 14:23   #181
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Default Re: Puncture frauds - How do they work?

Had a frustrating experience yesterday. When I started for home, realized that the rear Tyre of my bike was punctured. This is the 3rd time in the past couple of months.
I had to get the repair guy to my office and get it fixed today ! Waste of time and money

This is on ORR. My colleague informed me that the Puncture repair guys drop nails, sharp objects on this section of the road to make quick money.

No clue if the cops are even bothered to check this menace.
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Old 6th September 2019, 13:19   #182
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Count me in as a victim for this scam. For past few weeks I've been noticing 1 PSI leak in front left tyre of my Lexus. I've been delaying the repair as it's a small leak and just topping up air once in a while with a mini air pump works out.

I went to HP petrol pump on Golf Course Extension Road in Gurgaon.

I had the tyre removed and followed the guy until he filled air in tire and placed it in large water tub to check for leaks. I was there for the whole process watching them with eagle eyes. The water was dirty and i couldn't see what was at the bottom of the tub. Then first inner sidewall puncture appears and then later another inner sidewall puncture appears. He removed the tire from the tub and there were two microscopic punctures at about a quarter of a distance from each other and were leaking air. I couldn't believe that those puncture would cause such a slow loss in pressure which I've been experiencing. The rate at which the air was leaking out would cause the tire to be flat overnight.
I checked his water tub by dipping my hand and trying to find something that could poke hole. Then he said I'll remove the water for you. I said do it. But i think that poking device must be washed away with the bucket from which he was removing water. He explained that it is due to potholes. But I've always kept the tire pressure above the recommended pressure to avoid rim and sidewall damage.

Seeing no other option i had to get mushroom type fix for the sidewall, and guess what? There was a nail in the tread area of tyre, which he was not able to find in tub test. Which i think was the cause of the leak in the first place!
In the end had to get the tire repaired and currently using it as a spare tyre.

But the question i am asking to myself is that, it'll be very difficult to poke hole in sidewall of a low profile tire in the water as the tyre was floating in the tub. Even if he tried to poke it with something it'll make the tyre tip over due to buoyancy and i would straight away notice it.

Last edited by Dhruv29 : 6th September 2019 at 13:23.
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Old 6th September 2019, 13:59   #183
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Seriously what is going, everyone is out to make a fast buck. What ever happened to workhard and earn a living truthfully.

Even i think always taking a co-passenger along to keep an eye on such tactics (like move the vehicle a bit forward etc where they poke holes). But these people come up with new ways to fleece people.

Really sad to see the way things are heading.
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Old 6th September 2019, 14:41   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhruv29 View Post
Count me in as a victim for this scam. For past few weeks I've been noticing 1 PSI leak in front left tyre of my Lexus. I've been delaying the repair as it's a small leak and just topping up air once in a while with a mini air pump works out.

I went to HP petrol pump on Golf Course Extension Road in Gurgaon.

I had the tyre removed and followed the guy until he filled air in tire I couldn't believe that those puncture would cause such a slow loss in pressure which I've been experiencing. The rate at which the air was leaking out would cause the tire to be flat overnight.
I checked his water tub by dipping my hand and trying to find something that could poke hole. Then he said I'll remove the water for you. I said do it. But i think that poking device must be washed away with the bucket from which he was removing water. He explained that it is due to potholes. But I've always kept the tire pressure above the recommended pressure to avoid rim and sidewall damage.

Seeing no other option i had to get mushroom type fix for the sidewall, and guess what? There was a nail in the tread area of tyre, which he was not able to find in tub test. Which i think was the cause of the leak in the first place!
In the end had to get the tire repaired and currently using it as a spare tyre.

But the question i am asking to myself is that, it'll be very difficult to poke hole in sidewall of a low profile tire in the water as the tyre was floating in the tub. Even if he tried to poke it with something it'll make the tyre tip over due to buoyancy and i would straight away notice it.
While one can't rule out mischief, but the tyre chaps over inflate the tyres while trying to find rhe puncture. This overfilling results in quick detection since the leakage is magnified.

To me it appears that you did your best in monitoring the guy, but these punctures are probably genuine and hence I wouldn't suspect the guy of tampering or cheating you.
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Old 6th September 2019, 14:45   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhruv29 View Post
But the question i am asking to myself is that, it'll be very difficult to poke hole in sidewall of a low profile tire in the water as the tyre was floating in the tub. Even if he tried to poke it with something it'll make the tyre tip over due to buoyancy and i would straight away notice it.
Still after the fix my car was showing constant drop in tire pressure at a rate of 2 PSI, even though the tire is stored in boot. I checked it with soapy water and found another microscopic hole in inner sidewall!! This takes total puncture count to 4!As of now, Iím taking the alloy with me to confront that guy
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Old 6th September 2019, 14:50   #186
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Originally Posted by Dhruv29 View Post
Still after the fix my car was showing constant drop in tire pressure at a rate of 2 PSI, even though the tire is stored in boot. I checked it with soapy water and found another microscopic hole in inner sidewall!! This takes total puncture count to 4!As of now, Iím taking the alloy with me to confront that guy
May I ask how old is the tyre? Perhaps it's old and hard hence the tiny sidewall cracks. If it's not old, please check if it's covered under warranty.
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Old 6th September 2019, 14:56   #187
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Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
May I ask how old is the tyre? Perhaps it's old and hard hence the tiny sidewall cracks. If it's not old, please check if it's covered under warranty.
They’ve covered 25000km and still have 30% tread life left.

Edit: My Apologies, it is IOC petrol pump.
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Last edited by Dhruv29 : 6th September 2019 at 15:06.
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Old 6th September 2019, 15:45   #188
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Originally Posted by Dhruv29 View Post
They’ve covered 25000km and still have 30% tread life left.

Edit: My Apologies, it is IOC petrol pump.
Had to again dismount the tyre and get the sidewall fixed. The guy who checked for punctures was not available but gave a peace of mind to the guy who fixed the tyre before. As you can see it’s a microscopic hole in sidewall through which the air leaked. There is no other way that this kind of puncture can happen naturally on the road. It’s definitely through a compass or a poking device.
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Puncture frauds - How do they work?-ef02bcbd3a8345a3a6c302cf6c644c42.jpeg  

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Last edited by Dhruv29 : 6th September 2019 at 16:04.
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Old 8th October 2019, 14:48   #189
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Default Re: Puncture frauds - How do they work?

Last night, I ran over a few small wire clips scattered on the roadside. Unfortunately, one of the clips got embedded into the tread which I realised this morning when the tyre was completely flat.

I drove to the nearest supposedly reliable tyre shop which was around 2 km away. As the roads are freshly laid out, I assumed it was safe to cover the distance steadily at 10 km/hr speed.

At the shop, I was told right off the bat that the nozzle was damaged as "pressure wasn't building up" while filling air. So along with the puncture, I had to get the nozzle replaced with a metallic one from MRF. Paid 150 bucks in total.

Now, it doesn't sound like a scam but I think I was fooled with the nozzle part. They told me that driving with the flat tyre damaged the nozzle. Is this possible? Asking because there is no visual damage on the tyre.

Also, what are the signs of a failing nozzle?

Last edited by self_driven : 8th October 2019 at 14:49.
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Old 8th October 2019, 16:20   #190
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Just went through the last few posts. Unfortunately everyone in Delhi NCR is out to make a quick buck. Many of my friends have fallen prey to similar things so I'm going to list down what I do to avoid this:


Avoid roadside puncture guys like the plague, go to closest tyre shop instead. 90% of them are scamsters who have nothing to lose when they damage your tyre. However tyre shops shouldn't be trusted blindly, nor are they available all the time.
To fill air, go to a trusted petrol pump and watch over the dude filling air. Why? Because petrol pump guys sometimes mess with the nozzle too, apart from whacking your valve caps.


In Gurgaon- I fill air from Janta Petrol Pump and have got punctures fixed at Wheels & Tyres- GCR, Zig Wheels- GCR, a local guy next to Zig Wheels and Star Wheels- Sector 14.



1. When you have a puncture, 90% of the time you can feel the screw/ pin type thing by running your hand over the tyre surface. Keep the location in mind.
2. Tell the puncture dude not to manhandle the nozzle (because if he does youre forced to replace it then and there, and you'll have to get the whole thing balanced later) or overfill the tyre (they fill upto 70-80 psi and naturally, the tiniest perforations start "leaking air". Even 20psi is enough for a real puncture to show up). Make it clear you're only paying for the puncture you know of, not a "failed" nozzle or any other puncture.
3. Get water put on the tyre by a brush, not tyre immersed in water.
4. Tell him to ask you before piercing into the tyre (to make space to insert the rubber puncture thing). Before you know it, these guys magically identify a few holes and make them bigger in order to "mend them"


I am also this close to buying my own inflator and puncture kit



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhruv29 View Post
There is no other way that this kind of puncture can happen naturally on the road. Itís definitely through a compass or a poking device.

If I were in your place, I would have given it to this guy properly. A sidewall puncture renders the tyre useless, and tyres don't come cheap.
The only puncture you had was a single nail. The rest were done by the puncture guy. It's hard to spot them doing it because they usually have a number of things in their hands + a really small pin.



Quote:
Originally Posted by self_driven View Post

Now, it doesn't sound like a scam but I think I was fooled with the nozzle part. They told me that driving with the flat tyre damaged the nozzle. Is this possible? Asking because there is no visual damage on the tyre.

Also, what are the signs of a failing nozzle?

You can't be sure whether you caused the nozzle damage. I have been told by the roadside/ petrol pump guys a number of times that the nozzle is damaged and "air is leaking" but there's nothing wrong with it and I've used it till date. I have also driven at least 10km on a semi flat tyre at normal speeds so I believe it is a scam.


My nozzle has failed only once when I'm pretty sure a roadside guy punctured it and my trusted tyre shop pointed it out to me.



The signs of a failing nozzle are- put your ear next to it in a quiet environment and listen carefully for air coming out. Sometimes you might hear the air escaping only if you press it slightly in a certain direction. OR pour water over the nozzle yourself and observe.



However, 99% of the time a nozzle doesn't fail unless it's meddled with. I'm surprised you faced this issue with a tyre shop because they usually don't resort to cheap tactics. It's a more of a roadside puncture- wala thing to do. They puncture a small hole into the rubber part of the nozzle/ twist it hard enough to damage it.


Also, you should get your wheel re-balanced after nozzle change.




Additionally, puncture guys and tyre shops own a great amount of money from these so called MRF and Bridgestone valves. A BHPian hand once posted about MGP selling 10 valves of Triton make for 280rs.
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Old 9th October 2019, 22:25   #191
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You should get your wheel re-balanced after nozzle change.
Thanks for the detailed post.

Does the wheel need balancing even when only the outer side of the tyre is pushed in (using the tyre changing machine) to replace the nozzle? So effectively, the tyre's position on the wheel has not changed. I don't think balancing is needed in such cases.
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Old 26th August 2020, 14:17   #192
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I am replacing tyres that i bought on Amazon for my Linea this week. The question is do i need to buy and change the valves too?

The existing valves are stock OEM that i got with the car in 2016. Apollo Alnac tyres have done 52000 kms and are worn out. I don't have any air leakage problems with the existing valves.

The place i plan to get the tyre change done told me it's not required and the valves usually have a long life.

Look forward to suggestions.
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Old 26th August 2020, 14:31   #193
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I am replacing tyres that i bought on Amazon for my Linea this week. The question is do i need to buy and change the valves too?

The existing valves are stock OEM that i got with the car in 2016. Apollo Alnac tyres have done 52000 kms and are worn out. I don't have any air leakage problems with the existing valves.

The place i plan to get the tyre change done told me it's not required and the valves usually have a long life.

Look forward to suggestions.
ALWAYS replace valves when you change tyres.

Infact, if you are buying tyres from the store, the store should provide valves free of cost. However, most charge 100 bucks per valve which can be negotiated to be waved off.

Triton makes the best valves in India

Last edited by sagarpadaki : 26th August 2020 at 14:34.
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Old 26th August 2020, 15:42   #194
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Look forward to suggestions.
It is always better to change the valves along with the tyres. As you have bought the tyres off amazon, the tyre shop will certainly charge you for the valves - most likely @₹100/piece.

If you have a MGP store nearby, you can pick up a pack of 10@₹250 and keep/give away the remaining 5 pieces. Else, Triton valves are available on amazon @₹198 for 5 pieces.
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