[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by bharatsomany

1)The upsize is 5% of 225 = +11.25mm radius or +22.5mm diameter.
I too agree there are other upsizes. I also have a set of 215/60R16 for my Laura with which I was able to drive around Ladakh with no damage to the underside of my car.

2)The extra ground clearance provides more space in the vertical plane. Think of it this way, a lower car would have a much greater chance of hitting the fender liner ABOVE the tyre with the suspension bottomed out.

3)Not exactly the same. Rubber is accommodative but not set like metal. A 0.5" change in rim width typically yields a 0.2" change in section width of the tyre.
Furthermore, there is more corner block contact when using wider wheels (since the rim does not pinch the sidewall as much and results in lesser angular deflection) which is most certainly better for performance in cornering and also for directional stability under heavy braking.
This is just the simplified reason for better performance even without the need getting into any high-tech discussions of a more even weight/pressure distribution across the width of the patch and increased volume of air.

Yes, very much so, the 8.5" width is recommended for 225 section tyres. But you don't have to trust my memory, here are a couple links:

ABT USA - VW Jetta - Wheels
ABT Germany - Octavia Mk3 - Wheels

"Physics is Physics".

And before you even admit a thought that I'm trying to bait, start a fight or be rude, I give you my word of honour that this is not the case.
I'm just another tyre geek! (I'll admit, physics and math excites me as well).

Bharat, of course that is not the case. It is nice to see someone go into so much detail when it comes to something like this. Your posts have definitely given me some amount of great information. A healthy discussion is always best.

1)Absolutely right. % it is, my mistake earlier, dunno how I typed mm this time.

2)Agreed but generally the tyres when they scrape hit the inside of the fender well while turning. And not the top of the fender well. Though in theory you are correct.

3)Again theoretically correct. Its great to see you get into the calculations, etc but buddy in the real world these tiny differences won't make a noticeable difference unless its a supercar like the GTR you mentioned where on the limit these small calculations could make a difference.

My point being that yes people like ABT may recommend an 8.5j rim, but if someone sees a rim design they like more which is only 7j or 7.5j they need not discard it just because an 8k rim is recommended since the difference will not be noticeable.

Also what are your views on air pressure vs contact patch? Do you keep the manufacturer recommended air pressure?

[bharatsomany]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

Bharat, of course that is not the case. It is nice to see someone go into so much detail when it comes to something like this. Your posts have definitely given me some amount of great information. A healthy discussion is always best.

1)Absolutely right. % it is, my mistake earlier, dunno how I typed mm this time.

2)Agreed but generally the tyres when they scrape hit the inside of the fender well while turning. And not the top of the fender well. Though in theory you are correct.

3)Again theoretically correct. Its great to see you get into the calculations, etc but buddy in the real world these tiny differences won't make a noticeable difference unless its a supercar like the GTR you mentioned where on the limit these small calculations could make a difference.

4) My point being that yes people like ABT may recommend an 8.5j rim, but if someone sees a rim design they like more which is only 7j or 7.5j they need not discard it just because an 8k rim is recommended since the difference will not be noticeable.

5) Also what are your views on air pressure vs contact patch? Do you keep the manufacturer recommended air pressure?

2) That is normally the case, but I lugged a lot of weight and suddenly realized the very imminent possibility of an oversized tyre hitting the fender liner ABOVE it. Not that I recommend using your car in lieu of a truck, but hey, that's life. But this could also happen if you end up going over a speed breaker while still at a high speed (hitting the suspension hard enough to make it bottom out). Here is a picture of the rear wheel of a Skoda Superb while it was doing substitution duty to a Champion or a Vikram or whatever they call it:



3) Trust me, you have to make the change and feel it for yourself. The cars dynamics change and they change substantially. I do agree that the real quantum of change may only be noticed at the very limit when you find that the car can do more than it previously could.

4) Geeks like me start with a specification and the eyes stop seeing stuff that isn't fully compliant (to the dream spec). But yes, everyone does not have to be like me!

5) Typically, air pressure drops with oversized tyres as they are rated for higher load. An approximation of the required pressure can be made by pro-rating the load rating but this only works if the sidewall heights are similar. Else some compensation is required for increase/decrease in sidewall.
Also, the calculation may not hold good with a ginormous change in width.

Example: 205/55R16 91V (@51psi) Original replaced with 225/50ZR17 98Y (@51psi) Oversize.
Load ratings of 615Kg and 750Kg respectively.
Original Tyre Pressure of 2.4bar pro-rated for load rating is:
2.4x615/750 = 1.968bar (~28.54 PSI).
1 Bar = ~14.503773774 PSI (2 decimal places aren't enough if you're a geek).
In reality, the pressure I keep is 29 PSI.
Thankfully, I do not observe any uneven wear in the 20,000 or so Km this set has done.

[Aston Singh]

My first post on Team BHP so still learning my way around.

I drive a 2009 model petrol SX4 VXi. The car was running on stock tyres, Bridgestone Turanza ER300. I had completed around 39000 kms and decided to change all four since the sidewall of one of them was slightly damaged. And with a Pune-Goa trip planned for the same week, it was the right time to go shopping for new shoes.

I started reading reviews on Team BHP/Google for all available brands - Bridgestone, Yokohama, Michelin, Continental etc and by the end of it, I was left far confused.

Shop - Anand Trading Company, Dapodi, Pune
Size - 195/65R15

These are the models I looked at -
Continental CPC 2 - Imports have been stopped so the ones available were almost a year old. So ruled these out. Price - 5500 per tyre.
Continental ContiMaxContact MC5 - Manufactured in India, just launched so no reviews available. The shop owner kept pushing me to go in for these, but I didn't bother. Price - 5500 per tyre
Bridgestone Turanza ER300 - Continue with the same model event though it's really old. Reliable, can withstand lot of abuse, noisy, decent grip, average grip in wet. Price - 5700 per tyre, too expensive for what it offers, so again a NO.
Yokohama AVS DB v550 - Overall good reviews, seemed to be a great buy but since imports for these had stopped as well, the latest available set was of Nov 2013. Price being offered was 5500 per tyre so I kept this option open!
Michelin Primacy 3ST - I had read a lot about this model but due to its high price and "delicate sidewalls", I was trying to stay away from it. Price - 5950 per tyre.

Confusion continued till the very end but due to limited options, I finally went with the P3STs!
Balancing, alignment was FREE, weights included! Cashback of 800 for 4 old Turanzas.

Experience after 2300 kms that includes two highway runs along with city driving.
1. Pune-Goa-Pune, 1100 kms, next day itself after putting on the P3STs.
2. Pune-Mumbai-Dahanu-Daman-Mumbai-Pune, 750 kms in total.

Dry Grip
Very good, infact even better on concrete roads. Car feels planted at all speeds, more confidence around corners. Though during my drive back from Goa, at certain tarmac stretches, I felt the grip to be lacking, the car swaying slightly (could be strong winds, I don't know).
Wet Grip
Didn't get a chance except for a thunderstorm Friday evening here in Pune. Still too early to comment but I could definitely feel the difference, no aquaplaning at all !
Noise levels
Absolutely silent. These tyres shine on concrete surfaces. The noise levels were incredibly low on Mumbai-Pune expressway, made the drive far more enjoyable.
Comfort
Superb. Softer compound and the switch from Bridgestone to Michelin, hence more noticeable. Ride on broken roads has improved a lot. But I am very cautious about potholes and sharp edges primarily because of the softer sidewalls. ( and after reading so much about it )
Braking
Spot on! The tyres hold their line, there was an instance where I had to brake from 80 to 0 because a monkey jumped right in the middle of the road. Phew! They saved the day.

Steering feels the same, more or less. SX4 is known to have a heavy steering which I personally prefer especially on highways.

Verdict - Definitely satisfied with the Michelins. If you are keeping away from these due to softer sidewalls, then don't. They can withstand bad roads but one needs to be careful, that's all, which is actually good for both, the car and the tyres.

[nkapoor777]

Originally Posted by nkapoor777

Got the Primacy 3STs for the Punto yesterday (195/60/15 - stock size for Emotion pack). Had Primacy LCs earlier which lasted me exactly 40k kms. Can't complain at all and this now is the fifth set of Michelin's I've got for my cars since 2006. Paid 5700 per tyre in Gurgaon including WA/WB/new valves etc.

Seriously considered Yoko AVS dB and the price difference was about 600 bucks per tyre but at the end stayed true to my belief that "one should get the best Tyres and brakes one can afford".

So after completing over 5k kms on P3STs with the Punto, I have been so impressed that I went ahead and got another set of 4 for the Tjet as well - stock size of 205/55/16. So that's the sixth set of Michelins for me. This one did pinch a little more though - 9500 per tyre. Ouch!!

Coming back to the tyres, these are a definite upgrade over the erstwhile Primacy LCs. Although my Tjet had been running on stock Goodyear NCT5 rubber till now (thanks to ICE upgrades). Switching over to P3STs has meant that I am now noticing the engine noise from the Tjet which I never heard previously with the NCT5s. The TJet now glides effortlessly and still flies when I want it to - all in a much more silent way.

[Aston Singh]

Originally Posted by nkapoor777

Switching over to P3STs has meant that I am now noticing the engine noise from the Tjet which I never heard previously with the NCT5s.

This is so true! I am experiencing the same in my SX4. These tyres are absolutely silent. Plus in my case, I can make out most of the noise coming from right up front since all my doors are damped. Both, damping and the tyres have made my Pune-Mumbai expressway trips a delight!

[Chethan B G]

Originally Posted by nkapoor777

So after completing over 5k kms on P3STs with the Punto, I have been so impressed that I went ahead and got another set of 4 for the Tjet as well - stock size of 205/55/16. So that's the sixth set of Michelins for me. This one did pinch a little more though - 9500 per tyre. Ouch!!

Coming back to the tyres, these are a definite upgrade over the erstwhile Primacy LCs. Although my Tjet had been running on stock Goodyear NCT5 rubber till now (thanks to ICE upgrades). Switching over to P3STs has meant that I am now noticing the engine noise from the Tjet which I never heard previously with the NCT5s. The TJet now glides effortlessly and still flies when I want it to - all in a much more silent way.

Originally Posted by Aston Singh

This is so true! I am experiencing the same in my SX4. These tyres are absolutely silent. Plus in my case, I can make out most of the noise coming from right up front since all my doors are damped. Both, damping and the tyres have made my Pune-Mumbai expressway trips a delight!

Hi!,

I am also planning to switch over from NCT5 to P3st for my Jetta. Size is 205/55/16. Just had one concern about thread wear. Kindly give your opinion on the following:

1. What do you feel about the thread-depth of the new P3st, when compared with the new NCT5 ?...

2. Do you think that the P3st's would last 35K kms, without significant drop in GRIP ?....


Thanks in advance!!

[nkapoor777]

This is so true! I am experiencing the same in my SX4. These tyres are absolutely silent. Plus in my case, I can make out most of the noise coming from right up front since all my doors are damped. Both, damping and the tyres have made my Pune-Mumbai expressway trips a delight!

Tell me about it. 1.5 bulk packs of damping is in and still I had to increase the audio volume to drown out the Tyre noise from the GYs. And now I have been driving with the windows rolled down in the Delhi chill and simply astonished by the silence.

Originally Posted by Chethan B G

Hi!,

I am also planning to switch over from NCT5 to P3st for my Jetta. Size is 205/55/16. Just had one concern about thread wear. Kindly give your opinion on the following:

1. What do you feel about the thread-depth of the new P3st, when compared with the new NCT5 ?...

2. Do you think that the P3st's would last 35K kms, without significant drop in GRIP ?....


Thanks in advance!!

1. Don't worry about the tread depth, it's irrelevant since tyre wear depends on a lot of factors.

2. Have used Primacy LCs in the Punto (outgoing model replaced by P3ST) and they lasted exactly 40k kms with close to 90% driving in city traffic. Expect P3STs to last a similar distance if not more since they seem like an improvement over PLCs. 35k kms should be doable if you maintain them well.

[S_U_N]

195/60/R15 3ST is available between 5660 - 5900 at various dealers in Pune.
This includes valve and fitting. In some cases the balancing labour is included and in other cases, the weighs are also included in the deal. Overall cost then comes to around 5850 per piece.

[CliffHanger]

My 195/65/R15 P3ST's crossed 10,000km yesterday. And so far, the tyres have been brilliant.

Easily the best tyres I have used. Braking ability is impeccable, gives so much confidence.

The ride quality has transformed totally. Road noise is also very controlled.

A completely satisfying purchase!

[Aston Singh]

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

My 195/65/R15 P3ST's crossed 10,000km yesterday. And so far, the tyres have been brilliant.

Easily the best tyres I have used. Braking ability is impeccable, gives so much confidence.

The ride quality has transformed totally. Road noise is also very controlled.

A completely satisfying purchase!

They definitely are brilliant

I've done around 4k with them and enjoying every single drive!

The road noise on concrete is unbelievably low. Simply superb!

[Alchemist]

I have recently changed my stock Goodyear tyres after doing around 49K kms. Got sick of them with constant punctures in the last 1 year. Changed to Michelin Primacy 3ST. The difference was immediately noticeable on my Laura and Im loving every bit of it.
Just done 1000kms though, mainly city driving. Waiting to get out of the city and test it at higher speeds. Initial feedback is the noise levels are in a range of low to acceptable limits, even at speeds of 130-140. For a change, now im able to hear the engine revving , rather than as was in the past where only tire noise was pervading the cabin.

Thanks to Nikhilb for the deal and good fitment job.

[S_U_N]

So, after buying 2 tyres, doing the wheel balancing and the alignment, I was off on a 600 KM trip to test the performance.
I can clearly feel that the noise when the car goes over undulations is muted now. So, it feels like driving a new car in that sense.
On concrete, I could hear a peculiar whistling sound at speeds around 80. This sound does not come on tar roads. Anyone else noticed this?
Other than that, I don't see any other difference (earlier Michelin PLC were doing the duty on the front and they are now on the rear wheels).

[F150]

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

My 195/65/R15 P3ST's crossed 10,000km yesterday. And so far, the tyres have been brilliant.

Easily the best tyres I have used. Braking ability is impeccable, gives so much confidence.

The ride quality has transformed totally. Road noise is also very controlled.

A completely satisfying purchase!

Hi, How is the handling ? Do the tyres squeal when cornering ?

My Michelin XM2 squeal a lot.

Please let me know your feedback about squealing in particular ?

[CliffHanger]

Originally Posted by F150

Hi, How is the handling ? Do the tyres squeal when cornering ?

My Michelin XM2 squeal a lot.

Please let me know your feedback about squealing in particular ?

Lately, since the beginning of this summer, I have been observing the tyres losing traction while braking(even a little hard) in hot weather conditions. If I brake hard, it squeals too, along with losing traction. This has put me off and I've made a lot of course correction on how the tyres have to be used till the end of their life.

I think I had wrong expectations from the tyres that are promoted as comfort oriented. Still, losing traction even on slightly hard braking is not acceptable in my opinion.

While the positives I mentioned in my earlier post still holds good, I think if anyone is looking for even a bit of sportiness, it is better to go for respective sub-brands such as Michelin Pilot Sport, Yoko S Drives, etc.

[F150]

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

Lately, since the beginning of this summer, I have been observing the tyres losing traction while braking(even a little hard) in hot weather conditions. If I brake hard, it squeals too, along with losing traction. This has put me off and I've made a lot of course correction on how the tyres have to be used till the end of their life.

I think I had wrong expectations from the tyres that are promoted as comfort oriented. Still, losing traction even on slightly hard braking is not acceptable in my opinion.

While the positives I mentioned in my earlier post still holds good, I think if anyone is looking for even a bit of sportiness, it is better to go for respective sub-brands such as Michelin Pilot Sport, Yoko S Drives, etc.

Can you let us know which car you were driving ? The type of surface and speed and how many kms you completed so far ? Were you on a long drive ?

Previous post says braking impeccable.

I am considering Primacy 3ST for purchase next week.