[FriendlyOwl]

Originally Posted by stanjohn123

I would also beg to differ on some of your points. Research papers aside I can only explain from practical experience since we own and live around rubber plantations.

When rubber prices were at its peak we did a very foolish thing of converting acres of our lands from Coconut plantations to rubber plantations. But by the time the trees matured , the prices crashed drastically and labor rates stayed the same.

This obviously gave us 3 options now, either start taking rubber from the trees for whatever peanuts we get now after paying off labor salaries , or wait it out till rubber prices peak again or last option is to just leave the trees for slaughter ( meaning someone will fix a price for each tree and they'll take all the rubber milk using chemicals and then cut and sell off the trees ).

In all these options, the loss is clearly for the farmer or owner ( The labor cost and fertilizer cost involved in growing these trees are also very high ). Most people have stopped taking rubber and some have started felling their trees or giving for slaughter. So whatever you say, the govt is not supporting any farmers and it's only further encouraging importing which again hurts our GDP.

We have huge demand for rubber within India itself but instead of encouraging local production , we are encouraging imports. But it's too late since people realized that investing in rubber is a waste of time and money and even if rubber prices increases again people will not do the same foolish thing because by now it is clear everything is done for the competitive advantage of few crony corporates.

Also environmentalists seem to be more bothered about rubber plantations destroying environment rather than much harmful chemical factories killing our people.

In a way I can empathize with the farmers who are protesting against the government today because they clearly understand now that , behind all the hogwash of development for the country, the real development is only for crony capitalists. Farmers will always take the backseat.

I think we are stating the same thing from different angles. You and avira_tk have among others rightly highlighted the plight of rubber plantation owners in India.

So a brief background about myself, from 2017-18 I was working in team which used to look into investing in new chemical production plants for the Indian market. So I am giving more of an Industry perspective on Rubber and the Indian Tyre Industry.

The glut in Natural Rubber is so bad that it led to the collapse of synthetic rubber prices and made any new projects related to synthetic rubber a financial harakiri.

Moreover, we had access to some information that Brazil is converting Amazon forests into Rubber plantations. So it is unlikely that rubber prices will rebound any time soon.

Also, I believe that in my previous post I should have clearly mentioned that the increase in plantation which caused the supply glut were in Thailand, Indonesia and Vietnam and not the ones in India, some of these plantation in these countries it seems also had access to higher yield rubber trees to make the matters worse.

What I want to say is I completely agree with the plight of rubber farmers in India. What I am trying to state is Natural Rubber as a whole is a commodity has become economically unviable because of the power wielded by the three largest producers.

As has been rightly highlighted throughout this thread, leaving the Indian Tyre industry and environmentalists aside, we need to find a way to compensate our farmers properly and insulate them from global depression in Natural Rubber price.

One of the way to support our farmers as done by the government is to impose duty on imported natural rubber and ban import of some types of tyre. But the government has to be on it's toes to support the other non-tyre based industries which use Natural Rubber as raw material. Because of increased RM cost their cost of production may become higher than the selling price of the same imported goods even after application of sufficient import duty.

Thanks again for reading my lengthy posts.

[itwasntme]

Originally Posted by GTO

Thanks to the Team-BHP fan (he prefers to remain anonymous) who sent this information in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this page!

GTO, any further idea about the timelines for 'normal' resumption of imports aligned to these new rules?

[Tgo]

Originally Posted by stanjohn123

This obviously gave us 3 options now, either start taking rubber from the trees for whatever peanuts we get now after paying off labor salaries , or wait it out till rubber prices peak again or last option is to just leave the trees for slaughter ( meaning someone will fix a price for each tree and they'll take all the rubber milk using chemicals and then cut and sell off the trees ).

In all these options, the loss is clearly for the farmer or owner ( The labor cost and fertilizer cost involved in growing these trees are also very high ). Most people have stopped taking rubber and some have started felling their trees or giving for slaughter. So whatever you say, the govt is not supporting any farmers and it's only further encouraging importing which again hurts our GDP.

Why doesn't the Indian farmer invest in storage of the harvest of such cash crops? I guess rubber could be stored for when the prices are up again. Its the same case for grains too. Why not have storage silos which can preserve the crop by maintaining water content in the grain for up to a year or so?

I guess the investments that are required and the small size of land holdings make it an option that should never be spoken of, let alone be considered.

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by Tgo

Why doesn't the Indian farmer invest in storage of the harvest of such cash crops? I guess rubber could be stored for when the prices are up again. Its the same case for grains too. Why not have storage silos which can preserve the crop by maintaining water content in the grain for up to a year or so?

I guess the investments that are required and the small size of land holdings make it an option that should never be spoken of, let alone be considered.

This is not such a good idea in a tropical climate, the attraction of rubber is that the income is pretty steady in season. The working capital requirements are high, and the majority of small holders can't afford it.

The other reason is that in Kerala, there is a vicious element in society with a certain political leaning that considers all rubber farmers as class enemies. I've dealt with one on this forum, the level of envy and hatred was something else. He would be happy with the outcome of this policy, his hated other (rubber planters) would get it on their necks. People like him would prevent any sort of help to primary producers while they'll maintain radio silence for handouts to large businesses.

Michelin tyres were an awesome option, I'm on my second set with my punto. I hope this policy is sorted out quickly, don't want to be stuck with domestic brands like the license Raj days.

[shibujp]

Horrendous. The only reason we have tyres of some quality from local manufacturers is due to the competition from global brands. When they started facing the heat from foreign players they started using sporting events for testing or buying global brands for there know how etc. This is a fancy version of our old license regime.

I am sorry to say this but the concept of quality and testing is alien to a lot of Indian companies. It's all a "chalta hai" attitude. Add to it a very low focus on customer complaints and redressal and you have a recipe for disaster. It's a no brainer that this will be detrimental to the overall improvement of the industry. Get this - it took so many years for MRF to come out with the Perfinza that compares favorably with equivalent tyres from Michelin etc.

What is stopping Indian manufacturers from manufacturing a crappy tyre in a niche that meets minimum requirements and charging a premium for it?

This is a short sighted move that detrimentally affects the industry as well as short changes customers.

I fail to see how this is going to save the rubber plantation? Brands like MRF etc have invested heavily in rubber plantations in Malaysia and source rubber from their. What in this policy is going to enforce that they use rubber sourced locally.

Drive on,
Shibu.

[MADMAX111]

Originally Posted by shibujp

Horrendous. The only reason we have tyres of some quality from local manufacturers is due to the competition from global brands. When they started facing the heat from foreign players they started using sporting events for testing or buying global brands for their know how excetra. This is a fancy version of our old license regime.

I am sorry to say this but the concept of quality and testing is alien to a lot of Indian companies. It's all a "chalta hai" attitude. Add to it a very low focus on customer complaints and redressal and you have a recipe for disaster. It's a no brainer that this will be detrimental to the overall improvement of the industry. Get this - it took so many years for MRF to come out with the Perfinza that compares favorably with equivalent tyres from Michelin etc.

What is stopping Indian manufacturers from manufacturing a crappy tyre in a niche that meets minimum requirements and charging a premium for it?

This is a short sighted move that detrimentally affects the industry as well as short changes customers.

I fail to see how this is going to save the rubber plantation? Brands like MRF etc have invested heavily in rubber plantations in Malaysia and source rubber from their. What in this policy is going to enforce that they use rubber sourced locally.

Drive on,
Shibu.

I fully agree. This is license raj and protectionism again. Back to 1990s. In my experience whenever any world class product is introduced in India and then subsequently produced in India, we invariably drag Down its quality to ‘our’ levels rather than moving up the quality chain. Few exceptions are there but generally this is the pattern. I am highly sceptical that we will ever get the kind of silent ride of a Michelin tyre from an Indian tyre. As said earlier here, Indian manufacturers of all kinds spend more time and effort to manage the sarkari system and fooling the customers than genuinely moving up the quality chain.

[M00M]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

Limited numbers in 15 and 16 inches but good numbers in 17" and above.

Hi NIkhil. Your post did help me in my endeavour to wait for new Michelin 17 inch tyres for my Honda CRV. Could you please share your number and contact information ? When can i expect Michelin India to bring back the CRV 17 inch tyres in India ? Thanks in advance

[pavi]

I bought a new Skoda Rapid TSI in December 2020 and being a Michelin fan I tried searching for Michelin 4ST in 195/55/16 sections. I do have great experiences with XM2 and 4ST in my Honda city. Most of the dealers replied that they don't have any in stock and it may take months for the new ones to arrive. At last I got hold of four 4ST tyres from a dealer in Cochin. Went there the next day after travelling around 100kms and changed the tyres. Did not ask for any offers specifically as I had determined to change the tyres, and as per the dealer those 4 tyres were the last ones they are having currently.

[Peaky_blinder]

Michelin increasing tyre prices in India by 8%.

https://www.google.com/search?client...obile-gws-serp

[nikhil.nayak]

What a mess! Came across this thread after posting on the XM2 thread.
I am stranded with a set of Michelin XM2 205/65 R15 and in need of a spare.

I can only hope that Michelin will be able to replenish stocks for loyal customers asap.



.

[condor]

Originally Posted by Tgo

Why doesn't the Indian farmer invest in storage of the harvest of such cash crops? I guess rubber could be stored for when the prices are up again. Its the same case for grains too. Why not have storage silos which can preserve the crop by maintaining water content in the grain for up to a year or so?

Grains, when dried, can be stored. But this is for consumption. Even grains cant be left for too long if being used for sowing. The harder seeds/grain will survive, but not the lighter ones.

However rubber sap may not survive long periods without losing properties required for good tyres/other products. It may be that rubber companies are processing it into an intermediary stage and using it based on demand for their products.

[vjbox]

I had a tough time sourcing tyres for my vehicle recently and the only options I got from Michelins were MY2018 that I didnt prefer. I so wanted to switch to Michelins this time around but no luck. Had to resort back to the Pirellis again that I got hold of from Martial Motors Bangalore and so nice of the team to ship it to Chennai promptly. My understanding is that car dealers seem to be having some sort of a quota so they can service their customers needs.

I also realized how difficult it is to get hold of 225/45/18s. Volvo put their customers in a tricky situation with this spec and up-sizing is not being recommended where they claim it could cause issues with the electronics and suspension so I didnt have a choice.

[Yakuza]

Folks in Bangalore, I came across the below post by Madhus. Looks like they are taking pre-orders for new stock of Michelins. Those who were waiting should probably pre-book quickly considering the post says limited stock.

[Emvi]

Originally Posted by condor

However rubber sap may not survive long periods without losing properties required for good tyres/other products. It may be that rubber companies are processing it into an intermediary stage and using it based on demand for their products.

Excuse me for responding to this post now. I came across this post just a short while ago. Natural rubber definitely can be stored for a longer period, say about 4-6 months with proper care. Rubber sap or the latex is normally processed, rolled into sheet form and dried in the sun or in a smoke house. The rubber sheets thus processed and dried, can easily be stored for a longer duration in a closed room.

[Venkatesh]

Michelin India from June 18 will increase prices by up to 6% on passenger car, light truck and motorcycle replacement tyres, and up to 8% on commercial tyres, citing increase of raw material cost, global transportation cost and prevailing market dynamics.

In June 2020, the government imposed strict restrictions on tyre imports into the country. As a result, Michelin reworked its India strategy and has started focussing more on premium cars and tyre sizes. The company will now be catering to the 17-inch and above segment in the passenger car space particularly.

Source