21st October 2009, 00:49
| #76 |
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21st October 2009, 01:17
| #77 | ||
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| Search & Decision Making Quote:
Search & Decision Making: My search started and so did the con-Fusion. Found many dealers were pushing Michelin (Primacy LC) hard. At near 4900 for the stock size (195/60R15) it cost a lot lot more. Not sure if it is really a good tyre (not debating that fact) or just that it was imported and gave a lot more margin for the dealer. Either way, more than one dealer was pushing it. Another one that interested me a lot was the Cooper ATP Zeon in the 205/60R15 size. The price was decent (4000) and the sales guy was pushing me hard. Doing all possible to convince me to get it. Opened the tyre (packing), showing me the brochure, posters and all. I think his giving me the brochures was a mistake! I realised ATP stands for Acoustic Touring Performance. It was an Asia specific line and designed mainly for long life. Not necessarily for better grip. I found it hard and heavy too. Only thing good about it was it had a rim protector. The brochure also had details of another line called ASP. Acoustic Sports Performance. This was was meant for better handling and grip. He didn’t have this line tho’. Had also considered Apollo Acceleres since they looked good, seemed light, soft and sticky and priced right (slightly over Goodyears), but after reading not so good stories obout them on Team-BHP, I decided to give them a miss. Among Goodyears I also considered the asymmetric Excellence and unidirectional Eagle F1 GSD3. Excellence was priced a shade below 4000 for 205/60R15s, it was a high performance tyre and assymmetric, but decided to give it a miss as it was heavier and harder than Assurances, and slightly larger too. Reviews on UK based sites were not too positive (not sure if it was the same tyre tho’ it did the same). Eagle F1 GSD3 was a high performance tyre and costed slightly more in the 205/60R15 size. Decided to give them a miss too as I was not looking for a very high performance road tyre. Knew it would face abuse from bad roads, rough shoulders and pot holes. Besides also read of its losing its awesome grip quickly as kms roll by right here on Team-BHP. So after a lot of thinking and posting here, here and here. I finally made up my mind. Decided it would be Goodyear Assurance 205/60R15 91V  ! Decided to give them a try! I must mention that General Tyres on J.C. Road helped me with the decision, not only with excellent sales advice, but also patiently answering my questions and most importantly having all the sizes in stock so I could visually and physically compare Assurance, Excellence and stock GT3. Picked them close to the Dealer price (not end user price) of Rs. 4,145 per tyre. General Tyres being a distributor, not only had stock on hand, also offered me prices around 10% lower than anywhere else. That helped too.The reasons for this choice included (not necessarily in order of importance): 1. Kevlar® Cord Reinforcement: This was the only tyre (other than Michelin Primacy LC) to have it. Tyres significantly more expensive and cheaper too didn’t. Including high performance ones like Yokos, Excellence and GSD3s. Kevlar made it light and strong too. Let’s see how it actually translates into usage benefit tho’. 2. 3-D Waffle Blade® Technology (in sipes): Now this one is something unique. Not seen (by me) in any any other brand of tyre. Sounds (and looks) pretty gizmoid. In fact the GT3s had bubble-blade technology (spherical interlocking) and the new Waffle Blade (Pyramidal interlocking) seems an evolution of it. Quote:
How it would translate into actual better driving, grip, braking or handling, don’t know. See pics of waffle blades here. 3. Silica Based and Reinforced Tread and Sidewall Compound: Supposedly provides better grip, life and on the sidewalls: better protection for cuts and abrasions (important on bad roads). This was important for me. Let’s see how this works out again. 4. Light weight: The Assurances were as light as stock size (195/60R15) Michelin Primacy LCs and lighter than stock Goodyear GT3s too. Was it because of the Kevlar ply? 5. Softness: The tyres seemed soft and hence would be sticky. They were definitely softer than stock GT3s and Excellences. 6. Price: This was a major deciding factor as despite being an upsize it was still cheaper than stock size Michelin Primacy LC (by 20%) and Yokos. In fact the only tyres cheaper (in 205/60R15 oversize) than Assurances were Cooper ATP Zeon (4000 before negotation), Goodyear Excellence (3900 odd) and Maxxis (3700 before negotiation). So, packed with all that technology and advanced materials, it did seem good value (even tho’ 50% premium over the excellent stock GT3s). 7. Goodyear Worry Free Warranty: Covering even non manufacturing defects such as cuts and nicks, tears, non-repairable punctures etc. till 3 years or 50% tread life (whichever comes first). This was offered by Goodyear on Assurance, Excellence and Eagle F1 GSD3s. In fact the only other brand of offer this was Cooper (dealer warranty). This was another biggie in the deciding factor. 8. Excellent media reports: Reviews of this tyre across APAC have been very positive. It has also won awards against many competing brands. Performance in both dry and wet was far superior to other biggie brands like Bridgestone. So I thought I can take their advice (even if with a pinch of salt). Read Goodyear Assurance Tire Named 'Product of the Year' in China and Malaysian Motorsport / Automotive: GOODYEAR IMPACTS CONSUMERS WITH THE LATEST "ASSURANCE" TYRE RANGE 9. Central Steering Rib: As mentioned in my requirements, this one had it. 10. Soft Corner for Goodyear: Over a decade ago, in my engineering days, I did a study project at their Aurangabad factory which makes most of the radials now. It was there that I learnt the in and outs of tyres and manufacture and fell in love with tyres. In fact even today I get a nostalgic feeling whenever I get fresh tyre smell in a tyre shop. Besides my mother also worked and retired form that company after serving over 10 years. So while not a major reason, if all things were equal, I would choose a Goodyear. 11. Free Reebok Watch worth Rs. 2599: Now this was almost like no reason. But Goodyear had this festive offer of a free Reebok watch if you buy 4 tyres (on Assurance, Wrangler and one Eagle NCT5 size). I tried negotiating it out and asking for a equivalent (or close) discount, but they wouldn’t budge. So decided to take it anyway. Later I realised why they didn't give me a discount. It is a neat watch, but doesn’t look worth that much.  May go in to a Reebok store and check how much their other watches cost. The watch cover tin has Goodyear printed on it. Nothing on the watch, but yes, on the inside (yes inside) of the leather strap. In fact, I now find that this is a common freebie. As a Diwali offer, Whirlpool is giving it with some fridge/washing machine and so is Reliance Digital with every DVD Player. Yes, it’s the exact same watch and all quote the exact same MRP. Maybe Reebok is pushing this hard as a corporate gift.12. Not a very Commonly Seen Tyre: This may sound strange, but the very fact that it is not common, intrigued me to get this one. I like off beat decisions (as can be seen in the choice of a Fusion) and the fact that no one had it even on Team-BHP, made me wanted to be among the first few to try it out. To be continued... | ||
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21st October 2009, 01:58
| #78 | |
| BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bangalore
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| Getting 'em Installed Quote:
Getting 'em Installed Note: Pics in this post are taken with my cellphone cam as I had forgotten to carry my camera. Hence not too great to look at. So after making up my mind, it was the turn of gettin' 'em and fixin' 'em! Seemed to be harder than I had imagined. At first I wanted to get 'em before my in-laws arrived, so we could plan some out of town trips. But my DIY wheel restoration project was running behind schedule, meant I couldn’t! The first chance after they arrived was on Gandhi Jayanti and I was all set to go get 'em. Luckily I decided to call the sales guy (no response) and the shop (no response as well). On SMSing the sales guy, he replied they are closed too! Finally on Saturday, 03-Oct-2009, I head out to the place. Leave the car first in the MLCP to give me the last chance of negotiation  . (Had I taken it right up to the shop, he would know I am in and would not reduce prices). Final round of haggling and trying to give me a discount instead of that watch later, I had settled. Decided to pay cash instead of CC to avoid the 2% surcharge. I then went to fetch the car while my wife gets the cash. Fitting, Nitrogen and Balancing included. All I needed to pay more for is weights (@ Re. 1 per gram)By the time I get into the lane behind the shop (where they fit the tyres besides their huge godown). The tyres are already there. Two of the tyres look dirty (muddy although absolutely new). I tell them to hold it and run back to the shop where they are printing the receipt. Asked them for a clean new set and he agrees. I get back and they take me to the godown to let me choose my set of “clean” tyres. These tyres are made in Malaysia. As I carry them down to the car, the helpers are surprised I am doing their dirty work (little do they know how crazy I am). Once I give a go ahead, they jack the car and put the rear axle on jack stands. Give them the alloy anti-theft nut key and they loosen all nuts and take off the rear ones. Pic: Rear Axle raised and jack stands coming in place. Wheels being loosened and front jacks being slid in  Soon enough the rear tyres are deflated and the old tyres are ready to be taken off the rims. That’s when I go to the guy doing the unmounting and tell him to be very careful with the rims as I just repainted them myself  . He assured me that he has been in this line for 15 years and these are just repainted ones. He often gets brand new shiny alloys and he works on them without scratching them at all.Pic: Ford Fusion OE Alloy Rim on old tyre. Nearby is a Baleno OE Rim.  He sure stood by his word and took extreme care of the rims. After the initial loosening of the tyre, he ensured that the tyre unmounting machine does not touch the rim when rotating. That’s when I realised how light these rims actually are! Even the final manual step (where he uses a large level to pull the bead over the rim edge) he did without touching the lever to the rim. I was impressed (and grateful). Pic: Hayes Lemmerz Czech made alloy rims  Also got to compare the sizes of the older stock and new upsize tyres. There was a minor increase in diameter and width as can be seen in the pics. Pic: Diameter Comparison, note flat spot area on damaged tyre.  He then inflated the tyre with Nitrogen (negotiated for a complimentary fill). Only complaint here was he filled it directly without using the “Auto” mode on the TVS ProQual machine. (The Auto mode first sucks out all air (Tyre collapses) and then it fills Nitrogen). He said not required, as the tyres are new. This is required only when you fill tyres that earlier carried air. I know, doesn’t make sense, but still. Didn't push hard as I was anyway getting it complimentary. Pic: Width and diameter comparison as one old tyre lies on the ground  Pic: Width comparison, also note flat spot area again  Once inflated, the tyres were mounted on the balancing machine. He told me of the “high quality” imported sticker weights that were different from the ones that were stuck earlier. The stickers (and weights) were a lot smaller than what I had seen earlier. He also told me that super glued weights were used earlier and that should not be done. He also warned against low quality weights used earlier. Carefully cleaning the wheels with solvent before sticking the weights, he also bent the weights before fixing and also hammered the weights down before sending the wheel for mounting. Pic: Balancing on an oldish Hofmann Geodyna 1100. Bottle of solvent kept handy to remove old glue.  The rear wheels got fitted up front and the front ones went to the rear. 220 gms of weights were consumed in all (and hence costed me Rs. 220 extra). During this tyre fixing one friendly female dog (for want of a politically correct word) decided to rest under the jacked up car. Unfortunately whenever I approached to click a pic, she ran away in fright. Soon it was done and I was ready to leave. Really happy with the job done, I tipped them nicely and left. They also gave me that fRee-bok watch as I left. To be continued... Last edited by Glifford : 21st October 2009 at 02:05. Reason: Added info about cellphone pics | |
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21st October 2009, 02:49
| #79 | |
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| Preview Comments & Pics Quote:
Preview Comments & Pics: Next day morning I wash the car, carry my camera and take it out for a photo shoot. You can see the results in the pics below: Note: Have tended to over expose the pics to correctly expose the black tyres, as the interest of these pics is the tyres, not exactly the car. Pic: Rear Right  Here is the preview of the tyres after around 160 km of running (yes, only that much), interlaced with photographs: Pic: Front Right  1. Dry Grip: Seems better. Haven’t pushed the tyres hard, still running them in. Don’t wanna shred the new soft tyres as yet, so going slow. But that said, I find a significant improvement in grip levels. Within a km of getting the new tyres I did a panic braking at the BVK Iyengar Road Crossing (my mistake, wasn’t paying attention to slowing traffic). The tyres held on while passengers inside were hurled on to the seat belts. ABS didn’t kick in, so grip must be good. Also climbed the MLCP loaded (4 adults) at BVK Iyengar Road with no issues or squeals (despite standing starts on the slope). Fastest I have taken the tyres is scraping the underbelly of 100 kmph (definitely lower) in semi-dry/wet conditions. Pic: Against the SFX Cathedral  2. Wet Grip: This one is a definite improvement. On a trip to the airport and back faced some heavy rains last week. Tyres gripped fine even hitting water bodies at speeds close to 90 kmph. No loss of grip felt in both acceleration and braking. (Must admit have been gentle in both tho’). Pic: Front stance  Pic: Front stance overexposed to show tyres better  Pic: Right side. Larger tyres fill wheel arches better  Pic: Left side. Yes, the missing jacking point cap is not lost, it is at home!  Pic: Rear Stance with tyres adequately exposed  3. Looks: Now one of the reasons of upsizing was improved looks (perception?) on the vehicle. So from that aspect, the tyres do seem marginally larger than stock. They fit the wheel arches better and the stance seems more aggressive (due to wider footprint). But I doubt the difference is noticeable to an unfamiliar eye. Only a Fusioner would be able to tell that difference. That said, these are not aesthetically designed tyres. Neither do they feature unidirectional tread patterns nor is it assymmetric. So the tread pattern is pretty plain-jane. More of the work-horse kind. Nothing striking or attractive to look at. In fact the pattern is very very similar to that of the Apollo Accelere (as I just discovered when I saw them on a Santro). Almost seems like someone copied the other. Pic: Similarities in Apollo Accelere (left) and Goodyear Assurance (right) tread patterns. Who copied whom?  One more point I liked about the sidewalls is the way the text/logo/lettering is engraved into the sidewall, instead of being embossed. This makes cleaning easier. Painting the lettering would also be a much easier job with this pattern. Wondering whether I should do it . And if I do, which colour I should do them? White (Traditional), Yellow (Goodyear Yellow) or Silver (to go with the rest of the car/alloys)? Pic: Engraved (not embossed) "Assurance" Sidewall Lettering. Easy to paint?  4. Ride: This one is one huge improvement. Got to test it immediately after rolling out from the shop. I can hardly feel anything when crossing the cats-eyes (shiny reflective road/lane markers) now. Earlier each one would cause a loud thud in the suspension and we could feel it (the Fusion has a hard setup). Now just some sound. Same goes for speed brakers, bad roads etc. Pic: Tread Pattern with steering at full lock  5. Noise: Now this was not a high priority requirement in the first place. And this one does not seem to be a very silent tyre. Since the Fusion is generally noise (esp. compared to the Fiesta), it is hard to compare. But yes if the stock GT3s had a hum/whine, the Assurances have a whoosh sound. So they are more silent than the stock, but not sure how they compare to the best in class. Pic: Right Front & Rear in Perspective  6. Steering Feel: Great! Can't say "better" as yet. Have to hit the highway for that. Pic: A Fusioner would realise the tyres look chunkier. Others may not notice.  7. Handling: Haven’t tested as yet. Will give it some time before I can start ripping these tyres to shreds around corners. Pic: 3D Waffle Blades Close-up  Pic: Note 3-D Waffle-Blades in every sipe  8. Oversize Issues: Well these tyres are 10 mm wider and 12 mm larger in outer diameter than stock. Fortunately they don’t foul at all with the suspension, fenders or any other part. Straight or full lock either side. So that is not an issue. You can see the photo of the clearance from the front strut. Now with 6mm (half of diameter) extra radius, it also means 6 mm more ground clearance and this is a bonus. As if the almost best 198 mm GC wasn’t enough (it never is), now it’s 204! In terms of pick up, I initially felt additional drag, but later realised it was just psychological! Overall it is a decent upgrade and I strongly recommend it (only when the OE set are worn down, else they themselves are pretty good). Pic: Front tyre clearance against strut  9. Fuel Efficiency / Mileage: Too early to tell. More so with a 2% increase in diameter, the odometer (and speedometer) may be a little conservative than actual. Will look for a GPS unit to verify. Also will check if the Ford Dealer can re-calibrate the speedo. As per the manual, they can do it after a tyre size change. I will be impressed if they manage though! Pic: Sidewall Lettering on Shiny Restored Rims  10. Life: too early to know now. Fingers crossed. Pic: Armor Grip Technology  Pic: Polyamide / Kevlar  Pic: Front tyre, all excess rubber from spew holes is no longer there on fronts (by 150 km)  Pic: Excess rubber from spew holes still remain on the rears (even after 150 km)  Pic: It's a jungle out there!  That's it for the moment folks! Last edited by Glifford : 21st October 2009 at 02:57. Reason: Added a Note and smileys! | |
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21st October 2009, 09:28
| #80 | |
| Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore
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| Quote:
Could you please explain this? | |
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21st October 2009, 10:01
| #81 |
| Team-BHP Support   Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore
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21st October 2009, 10:05
| #82 |
| Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore
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| No Turanza in 195/65 R14 Jaggu. I sincerely suggest you stick to 185/70R14 if you are not planning on any mods. You have a lot more options. Or, think about 15"  |
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21st October 2009, 10:21
| #83 |
| Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore
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| Nikhil iam open to Qualis tires of 195/70/14 also  I need 195 period! thats the optimum contact patch for this car.I cant afford 15" coz the roads i drive will scar them one day or the other, especially with my merciless driving over mars. EDIT: My need is a reliable overall good tire, i dont care about sound or high speed performance. I need overall durability, decent grip on wet/dry conditions and decent stopping. If i get it in 195/65/14 that will be first choice or increase to 70. Last edited by Jaggu : 21st October 2009 at 10:24. |
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21st October 2009, 11:15
| #84 | ||||
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| Why Rib? Quote:
Quote:
Did see your post late last night, but was too sleepy to reply. Was busy posting the rest of the series way past bed time! Ok, now to answer your double question. Online research when studying the new tyre brands I had seen (Cooper, Maxxis etc.) lead me to points that always mentioned "Circumferential rib for better steering response" if the tyre had one. As I kept looking, more and more tyres I saw, had them. Even tyres like Michelin Primacy LC had versions of them (with very very fine grooves). Now the Ford Fusion has an amazing hydraulic steering set-up that talks to your fingers as you drive. As I always love to say: "You can tell whether you are parking on tarmac, concrete, sand or gravel with your eyes closed as you can feel it on fingers!" Hence I kind of put it into my list of requirements. Something that would enhance the feel of the steering (considering that softer ride would negate some of it) was definitely something I would like! Also as I mentioned in the disclaimer before listing the requirements, they were not in order of preference. So while I would have preferred a tyre with a circumferential "steering" rib, it would not be a deal breaker (or go-no-go factor). So if I had to go for a high performance (non-circumferentially-ribbed tyre) like the Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3, I would be OK with it! Some reference sites I could quote for this are (Ctrl+F "circumferential"): Pneumatic tire with tread including circumferential rib region, block regions and sipes - Patent 7360569 Cooper :: Tyre Manufacturers tiremedia.com - Handle All Seasons Well With Avon Continental range of Tyres Tyres-Online: New Products Tire Industry News : Tire Data Quote:
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21st October 2009, 15:05
| #85 | |||||
| BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bangalore
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| Quote:
 Finally yeah! I too was so impatient to post, but just couldn't get the opportunity to sit down and do it.Quote:
Actually with so much written, there is very little "meat" in that post (sorry if you are e veggie). It is afterall just a preview! Amplyfryed has more useful info for you (actual use over longer distance and different terrains) than 4 of my posts. Anyway, I hope my posts were of use to you. Quote:
One thing to note that the Assurances are pretty ordinary lookers from the tread aspect. They don't look radical like unidirectional or asymmetric. Else they are fine, grippy and workhorse! Quote:
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Last edited by Glifford : 21st October 2009 at 15:10. | |||||
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21st October 2009, 15:23
| #86 |
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21st October 2009, 17:10
| #87 | ||
| BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bangalore
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| Quote:
But most shops are hard selling MPLC a lot. And it does command a significant premium. So people who can afford, buy! I am sure there are good alternatives. Quote:
Mileage, well 18 days on I have still done just 160km! So will be a while before I can empty the tank and yet another before I can calculate the mileage. Add to that there will be about 2% speedo error. Unless I have a long drive coming soon, will take a month at least before I can calculate accurate (tankfull-to-tankfull) mileage figures! Last edited by Glifford : 21st October 2009 at 17:15. | ||
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22nd October 2009, 11:53
| #88 | ||||
| Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore
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| Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Current variation: 165/80/14 Stock Vs 195/65/14 Difference in circumference:mm -32.99 or -1.69 % So when your speedo reads 70mph, you're actually travelling at 68.82 mph 185/70/14 Stock Vs 195/65/14 Difference in circumference:mm -17.28 or -0.89 % So when your speedo reads 70mph, you're actually travelling at 69.38 mph If i upsize 165/80/14 Stock Vs 195/70/14 Difference in circumference:mm 28.27 or 1.45 % So when your speedo reads 70mph, you're actually travelling at 71.02 mph 185/70/14 Stock Vs 195/70/14 Difference in circumference:mm 43.98 or 2.28% So when your speedo reads 70mph, you're actually travelling at 71.6mph Quote:
Last edited by Jaggu : 22nd October 2009 at 11:55. | ||||
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22nd October 2009, 13:31
| #89 |
| Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore
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22nd October 2009, 17:02
| #90 | |||
| BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 392
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| Quote:
Quote:
I thought you had already done this and I didn't bother checking that page out myself (I admit it was my favourite page till I got these tyres, trying all sorts of combinations).So the upsize in 195/70 is not too large. Pretty decent I say. I myself am running at a 1.95% increase, so these are just perfect. And nothing like the increased GC this gives you! Quote:
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