Correct way of wheel balancing?

ankit.jhamb · 11th November 2008, 11:10

guys
Just had this question in mind for a few days.While my cars wheel were being balanced,I noticed that the weights which were used in the last balancing were removed and new weights were used.
My question is that shouldnt the cars balancing be done with the old weights on the rim.By removing the old weights,the rims will always be unbalanced.

i know the question is stupid,but still want to know the correct way.

ankit jhamb

hemanthisgreat · 11th November 2008, 11:17

I think they tend to do this, so that more weights are used, since they charge based on weights used. I always tell them, not to remove the previous weights. I do not know however, what is the correct procedure. I thought it was just common sense, that previous weights be not removed, as it will be like starting fresh. My wheels are alloys and my experience is regarding alloy wheels.

m-hawk · 11th November 2008, 11:22

Yes they always want to sell you more weight i have notoced this tendency of tyre specialist s !! While if by a roadside mechanic the weight gets plucked accidentaly he hammer s it back with no fuss !! Which the tyre guy s do not ever !!! Can anybody put light to it please !!

Swifty2008 · 11th November 2008, 11:35

Even I have noticed this whenever I did balancing.

I don't know why they remove old weights and put all new ones. Last time when I did balancing, the guy didn't even check the air pressure before he started off with the balancing procedure. I asked him to fix air pressure before starts with balancing.

If anybody could clarify the balancing proceedure, would be helpful to a lot of people.

1). What are the necessary checks needed before balancing ?
2). What about the old weights? Do they need to be removed ?

ankit.jhamb · 11th November 2008, 11:57

so must of t-bhpians have seen this,ok tyre gurus,kindly explain,
1.what is the correct procedure,with old weights or without old weights.
2.wont there would be always some weight to be added when you remove the old weights

i know that the weights donot cost too much,but still,this is a valid point made by some members ...

Nikhilb2008 · 11th November 2008, 12:03

Even if your old weights are on the wheel, there will be an imbalance after a few thousand kms. This is due to tyre wear. However well you maintain your tyres, however good the roads are, there will always be an imbalance after a few thousand kms.

Next time, you can ask the person to rotate the wheel on the machine with the old weights. You will notice that there will be an imbalance. No doubt about it.

In this case, to keep the old weights and then add more new weights doesnt make sense at all.

That is why they remove the old weights first and then do the balancing.

IF you actually care so much about spending the 100/- bucks or so on old weights, most places will use your old weights itself on request. But assuming you have 50 grams of old weights on your wheels and the machine asks the technician to use 80 grams, you would have to use 30 gms extra.

Also, since most of you are so observant, have any of you observed what was the quantity of old weights (that was removed) and the quantity of new weights used? It will be different. In 99% of the cases, this will be different. This just proves that the wheel has developed an imbalance since it's last balancing.

ankit.jhamb · 11th November 2008, 12:28

my replies in bold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

Even if your old weights are on the wheel, there will be an imbalance after a few thousand kms. This is due to tyre wear. However well you maintain your tyres, however good the roads are, there will always be an imbalance after a few thousand kms.

totally agree with you on this,and thats why i had started this thread

Next time, you can ask the person to rotate the wheel on the machine with the old weights. You will notice that there will be an imbalance. No doubt about it.

but the amount of weights will change if we dont remove the old weights.
suppose the tyre required, 20grms of weight with the old one,and the old weight is say another 20 gms.
now my question was what is the correct way.to add only a 20 grm weight,or to remove the 20grm and add 40grm.will it make a difference?

IF you actually care so much about spending the 100/- bucks.
its not about saving 100/- bucks,i had mentioned it earlier also,just wanted to know the correct method to be used while balancing

thanks
ankit jhamb

hemanthisgreat · 11th November 2008, 12:36

In case of alloy wheels, I doubt the old weights can be reused, since they are the stick on types and they also use feviquick to stick them. I have also got the wheels balanced previously by removing the older weights and what I have noticed is more weights are used up than, when the old weights are not removed.

The correct procedure should be stated here, to serve as a guide for us in the future.

kartikkumar · 11th November 2008, 12:39

I would listen to nikhil if I were you. He does this day in - day out and he does it well.

And guys, honestly, it's a matter of a couple of hundred rupees. Your tyres and car deserve at least that much.

Nikhilb2008 · 11th November 2008, 13:56

1). For Alloy wheels, we use stick on weights. So, the question of reusing doesnt arise at all.

2). For clip on weights: Clip on weights are mainly designed to be used just once. When they are new and are hammered onto the wheel and used for 5,000 kms or so, they harden. The clamp hardens. If you remove the and try to reuse it, the tenacity of the clip will be much lesser than it should. There is a very high probability of the weight falling off within a few hundred kms. If it falls of, the idea of doing wheel balancing is negated.

Wheel weights are designed to stick to the wheel rim until balancing is done again and the weight is removed. Most locally made weights are not of good quality and hence cannot be reused.

If the dealer uses the old weights and the weight falls of and you start getting vibrations and wobbling in your tyres within 300 or 400 kms, you will go and blame the dealer for having done a shoddy job. So, most dealers use new weights everytime.

What we use in our shop are Dionys Hofmann. They are imported and are of very decent quality. These can be used again. MAybe about twice after which they too become useless. There are others like Dionys hofmann which are of good quality. None of the local ones are as good as these imported ones. The local ones are also generally cheaper. They might rust quickly too. If the person doing your balancing is using these locally made weights, they wouldnt recommend using the same old weights as it could rust and lead to further problems.

3). Why you cannot keep your old weights on the wheel and then add new weights if it is required: Due to tyre wear, the point(s) of imbalance on the wheel changes. Earlier, if there was an imbalance at a certain point and then corrected by adding weights at that point, this time, the point of imbalance might be different. If you dont remove the old weights, you will just add new weights. More weight is absolutely not recommended. A good balancing machine ALWAYS tries to reduce the quantity of weights you fit on a wheel.

So, if you want to use the old weights as it is, it is completely pointless. In the end, the machine might even ask you to add say, 80 grams over and above what is already there whereas if you remove the old weights, the machine might indicate that only 30 grams is sufficient.

Some customers do request that we use the old weights itself. We do that on request. But we cannot guarantee the quality of balancing as the weights are prone to falling off.

@Kartik -- Thanks!!

Lukeskywalker · 11th November 2008, 14:34

Nikhil, I think you have correctly answered the original question, I don't think it was a matter to save a few bucks, it was a query on correct balancing techniques.

How much does the expertise of the man performing balancing count? Is it solely dependant on the hitech machines that you have?

esteem_lover · 11th November 2008, 14:41

Rightly put, nikhil. The point of imbalance would change everytime. The old weights also lose their grip after a few thousand kms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartikkumar

And guys, honestly, it's a matter of a couple of hundred rupees. Your tyres and car deserve at least that much.

I don't think anybody is worried about the money, just learning the reason & not wanting to be taken for a ride.

ankit.jhamb · 11th November 2008, 14:44

thanks nikhil for answering the question.as i have said in earlier post,the main aim was to know what is the correct method of wheel balancing.your second post has answered the queries.
In delhi the guy who was doing wheel balancing for my car,wasnt not able to give a correct answer,when i asked him about the same,and when i asked him to perform the test with the old weights,he refused.
so i started this thread

thanks

iraghava · 11th November 2008, 15:29

I'm working on a photo article of how to properly balance wheels. Hopefully, will be able to post it up soon.

Also, will answer some of the queries a little later, gotta rush right now!

Swifty2008 · 11th November 2008, 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by iraghava

I'm working on a photo article of how to properly balance wheels. Hopefully, will be able to post it up soon.

Also, will answer some of the queries a little later, gotta rush right now!

I will be looking forward to this article. It will be really useful.

11th November 2008, 11:10	#1
ankit.jhamb BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: new delhi Posts: 573 Thanked: Once	Correct way of wheel balancing? guys Just had this question in mind for a few days.While my cars wheel were being balanced,I noticed that the weights which were used in the last balancing were removed and new weights were used. My question is that shouldnt the cars balancing be done with the old weights on the rim.By removing the old weights,the rims will always be unbalanced. i know the question is stupid,but still want to know the correct way. ankit jhamb
	() Thanks

11th November 2008, 11:17	#2
hemanthisgreat BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 594 Thanked: 50 Times View My Garage	I think they tend to do this, so that more weights are used, since they charge based on weights used. I always tell them, not to remove the previous weights. I do not know however, what is the correct procedure. I thought it was just common sense, that previous weights be not removed, as it will be like starting fresh. My wheels are alloys and my experience is regarding alloy wheels.
	() Thanks

11th November 2008, 11:22	#3
m-hawk BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: mumbai Posts: 218 Thanked: 9 Times	Yes they always want to sell you more weight i have notoced this tendency of tyre specialist s !! While if by a roadside mechanic the weight gets plucked accidentaly he hammer s it back with no fuss !! Which the tyre guy s do not ever !!! Can anybody put light to it please !!
	() Thanks

11th November 2008, 11:35	#4
Swifty2008 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Pune Posts: 236 Thanked: Once	Even I have noticed this whenever I did balancing. I don't know why they remove old weights and put all new ones. Last time when I did balancing, the guy didn't even check the air pressure before he started off with the balancing procedure. I asked him to fix air pressure before starts with balancing. If anybody could clarify the balancing proceedure, would be helpful to a lot of people. 1). What are the necessary checks needed before balancing ? 2). What about the old weights? Do they need to be removed ?
	() Thanks

11th November 2008, 11:57	#5
ankit.jhamb BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: new delhi Posts: 573 Thanked: Once	so must of t-bhpians have seen this,ok tyre gurus,kindly explain, 1.what is the correct procedure,with old weights or without old weights. 2.wont there would be always some weight to be added when you remove the old weights i know that the weights donot cost too much,but still,this is a valid point made by some members ... Last edited by ankit.jhamb : 11th November 2008 at 12:00.
	() Thanks

11th November 2008, 12:03	#6
Nikhilb2008 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 5,196 Thanked: 10,138 Times	Even if your old weights are on the wheel, there will be an imbalance after a few thousand kms. This is due to tyre wear. However well you maintain your tyres, however good the roads are, there will always be an imbalance after a few thousand kms. Next time, you can ask the person to rotate the wheel on the machine with the old weights. You will notice that there will be an imbalance. No doubt about it. In this case, to keep the old weights and then add more new weights doesnt make sense at all. That is why they remove the old weights first and then do the balancing. IF you actually care so much about spending the 100/- bucks or so on old weights, most places will use your old weights itself on request. But assuming you have 50 grams of old weights on your wheels and the machine asks the technician to use 80 grams, you would have to use 30 gms extra. Also, since most of you are so observant, have any of you observed what was the quantity of old weights (that was removed) and the quantity of new weights used? It will be different. In 99% of the cases, this will be different. This just proves that the wheel has developed an imbalance since it's last balancing.
	(1) Thanks

11th November 2008, 12:36	#8
hemanthisgreat BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 594 Thanked: 50 Times View My Garage	In case of alloy wheels, I doubt the old weights can be reused, since they are the stick on types and they also use feviquick to stick them. I have also got the wheels balanced previously by removing the older weights and what I have noticed is more weights are used up than, when the old weights are not removed. The correct procedure should be stated here, to serve as a guide for us in the future. Last edited by hemanthisgreat : 11th November 2008 at 12:46.
	() Thanks

11th November 2008, 12:39	#9
kartikkumar BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bangalore...not Bengaluru Posts: 214 Thanked: 2 Times View My Garage	I would listen to nikhil if I were you. He does this day in - day out and he does it well. And guys, honestly, it's a matter of a couple of hundred rupees. Your tyres and car deserve at least that much.
	() Thanks

11th November 2008, 13:56	#10
Nikhilb2008 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 5,196 Thanked: 10,138 Times	1). For Alloy wheels, we use stick on weights. So, the question of reusing doesnt arise at all. 2). For clip on weights: Clip on weights are mainly designed to be used just once. When they are new and are hammered onto the wheel and used for 5,000 kms or so, they harden. The clamp hardens. If you remove the and try to reuse it, the tenacity of the clip will be much lesser than it should. There is a very high probability of the weight falling off within a few hundred kms. If it falls of, the idea of doing wheel balancing is negated. Wheel weights are designed to stick to the wheel rim until balancing is done again and the weight is removed. Most locally made weights are not of good quality and hence cannot be reused. If the dealer uses the old weights and the weight falls of and you start getting vibrations and wobbling in your tyres within 300 or 400 kms, you will go and blame the dealer for having done a shoddy job. So, most dealers use new weights everytime. What we use in our shop are Dionys Hofmann. They are imported and are of very decent quality. These can be used again. MAybe about twice after which they too become useless. There are others like Dionys hofmann which are of good quality. None of the local ones are as good as these imported ones. The local ones are also generally cheaper. They might rust quickly too. If the person doing your balancing is using these locally made weights, they wouldnt recommend using the same old weights as it could rust and lead to further problems. 3). Why you cannot keep your old weights on the wheel and then add new weights if it is required: Due to tyre wear, the point(s) of imbalance on the wheel changes. Earlier, if there was an imbalance at a certain point and then corrected by adding weights at that point, this time, the point of imbalance might be different. If you dont remove the old weights, you will just add new weights. More weight is absolutely not recommended. A good balancing machine ALWAYS tries to reduce the quantity of weights you fit on a wheel. So, if you want to use the old weights as it is, it is completely pointless. In the end, the machine might even ask you to add say, 80 grams over and above what is already there whereas if you remove the old weights, the machine might indicate that only 30 grams is sufficient. Some customers do request that we use the old weights itself. We do that on request. But we cannot guarantee the quality of balancing as the weights are prone to falling off. @Kartik -- Thanks!!
	(1) Thanks

11th November 2008, 14:34	#11
Lukeskywalker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,397 Thanked: 1,243 Times View My Garage	Nikhil, I think you have correctly answered the original question, I don't think it was a matter to save a few bucks, it was a query on correct balancing techniques. How much does the expertise of the man performing balancing count? Is it solely dependant on the hitech machines that you have?
	() Thanks

11th November 2008, 14:44	#13
ankit.jhamb BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: new delhi Posts: 573 Thanked: Once	thanks nikhil for answering the question.as i have said in earlier post,the main aim was to know what is the correct method of wheel balancing.your second post has answered the queries. In delhi the guy who was doing wheel balancing for my car,wasnt not able to give a correct answer,when i asked him about the same,and when i asked him to perform the test with the old weights,he refused. so i started this thread thanks
	() Thanks

11th November 2008, 15:29	#14
iraghava Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bhaiyyaland Posts: 8,033 Thanked: 265 Times View My Garage	I'm working on a photo article of how to properly balance wheels. Hopefully, will be able to post it up soon. Also, will answer some of the queries a little later, gotta rush right now!
	() Thanks