[sdatta]

There are some complaints on 195/60 R15 upgrade as it touches the wheel-arch/car body in high speed driving while small up/downs on the road as the wheel is bigger than stock size (5-6mm). I was told this by my tyre shop, and then also saw it on the internet forum (http://www.zigwheels.com/QnA/modific...all-16337.html)...

Because of these I may not want to upgrade to 195/60 R15. I am sure there are several happy owners with this upgrade with no problem whatsoever, but that doesn't change those who have problem as every car is different and every suspension has different life. City's suspension was upgraded in 2012 and my car is from 2010 Dec, so it's hard to say who can have problems, or who shouldn't, - may be the problem is with the older cars with softer suspension and not for the post 2012 ones, and surely not for the 2014 ones. I posted this even on the 4th gen tyre upgrade forum but didn't get an update if anyone had this issue. And with so many variables of this car, it's hard to make a judgement or logical conclusion, - anyway the car's suspension is not really the best.

So anyway, the shop keeper was telling me to get 185/60R15 but it reduces the ground clearance and 10mm benefit of wheel width isn't probably going to give a much greater grip, so I probably will replace my MRF stock tyres on stock alloys with the Michelin XM2 175/65 R15. The question I have is, is it worth doing that after 31K on odo ? I wish the drive to be more comfortable on bad roads, - and slightly improve the cornering ability. So should I change my tyre or save the money and make my wife happy!

[kalyan_hyd]

Originally Posted by sdatta

There are some complaints on 195/60 R15 upgrade as it touches the wheel-arch/car body in high speed driving while small up/downs on the road as the wheel is bigger than stock size (5-6mm). I was told this by my tyre shop, and then also saw it on the internet forum (http://www.zigwheels.com/QnA/modific...all-16337.html)...

Because of these I may not want to upgrade to 195/60 R15. I am sure there are several happy owners with this upgrade with no problem whatsoever, but that doesn't change those who have problem as every car is different and every suspension has different life. City's suspension was upgraded in 2012 and my car is from 2010 Dec, so it's hard to say who can have problems, or who shouldn't, - may be the problem is with the older cars with softer suspension and not for the post 2012 ones, and surely not for the 2014 ones. I posted this even on the 4th gen tyre upgrade forum but didn't get an update if anyone had this issue. And with so many variables of this car, it's hard to make a judgement or logical conclusion, - anyway the car's suspension is not really the best.

So anyway, the shop keeper was telling me to get 185/60R15 but it reduces the ground clearance and 10mm benefit of wheel width isn't probably going to give a much greater grip, so I probably will replace my MRF stock tyres on stock alloys with the Michelin XM2 175/65 R15. The question I have is, is it worth doing that after 31K on odo ? I wish the drive to be more comfortable on bad roads, - and slightly improve the cornering ability. So should I change my tyre or save the money and make my wife happy!

Sir, the thread you are referring to is not giving out fully correct information, atleast not technically. Please refer to this http://tyrestore.in/tyreupsizing.asp for the advice on correct tyre upsize recommendation. As you yourself mentioned that every car is different and every suspension has a different life, there might be something wrong with the mentioned car in the thread.

And the difference in the tyre size after the upsize comes to 3.25 mm after the upgrade not 5-6 mm as you mentioned, the calculation is like this:
175/65 R15 means 175 mm is the width of the tyre, while 65% of 175 mm is the height = 113.75 mm
195/60 R15 means 195 mm is the width of the tyre, while 60% of 195 mm is the height = 117 mm (positive diff of 3.25 mm over stock tyres)

185/60 R15 means 185 mm is the width of the tyre, while 60% of 185 mm is the height = 111 mm (negative diff of 2.75 mm over stock tyres)

I upgraded my stock Michelin 175/65 R15's to 195/60 R15 recently after putting-up 50k kms on the odometer. I have not observed any difference in fuel efficiency or the wheels touching the wheel archs or bottoming put at high-speds, etc. On the contrary, I see a lot of difference in terms of better handling, cornering, braking and high-speed stability as compared to the stock tyres.

If you still wish to stick to the stock size, upgrading to Michelin's will definitely improve the comfort factor and noise factor but may not really add much to the cornering ability of the MRF's.

[sdatta]

Originally Posted by kalyan_hyd

And the difference in the tyre size after the upsize comes to 3.25 mm after the upgrade not 5-6 mm as you mentioned, the calculation is like this:
175/65 R15 means 175 mm is the width of the tyre, while 65% of 175 mm is the height = 113.75 mm
195/60 R15 means 195 mm is the width of the tyre, while 60% of 195 mm is the height = 117 mm (positive diff of 3.25 mm over stock tyres)

185/60 R15 means 185 mm is the width of the tyre, while 60% of 185 mm is the height = 111 mm (negative diff of 2.75 mm over stock tyres)

Thanks for your inputs, - but I was saying 5-6mm for the overall diameter of the wheel ? Wouldn't the top of the wheel surface go up by 6.5mm if the tyre is 3.25mm thicker by sidewall ?

Originally Posted by kalyan_hyd

I upgraded my stock Michelin 175/65 R15's to 195/60 R15 recently after putting-up 50k kms on the odometer. I have not observed any difference in fuel efficiency or the wheels touching the wheel archs or bottoming put at high-speds, etc. On the contrary, I see a lot of difference in terms of better handling, cornering, braking and high-speed stability as compared to the stock tyres.

If you still wish to stick to the stock size, upgrading to Michelin's will definitely improve the comfort factor and noise factor but may not really add much to the cornering ability of the MRF's.

Good to hear that, so I called the tyreshop again, and he now said he has put this to several Hondas and only 1 had this issue, so it could very well be issue with that car's suspension... and that too it was happening for the rear wheels not front ones when 4-5 people sitting. He said the shockers must be gone...I understand all this completely, but it's important to have some kind of check beforehand by testing my car's suspension...So he said he can check the car's wheel and arch's difference in spacing and confirm if this tyre 195/60 R15 will cause any issue or not...

He also said, that if the tyre does indeed cause any problem in my car, and I want to return it to him for the stock size even the next day I stand to lose about 50% of the price ... thats what they transact with the showroom buy-backs when new cars change tyre. Is that the normal case ? I read in this forum that another guy, was in similar situation and he had to pay 1000 only to exchange different tyre .. but there it was a mistake by the tyreshop as they put wrong size thinking it will work but it didn't.

[kalyan_hyd]

Originally Posted by sdatta

Thanks for your inputs, - but I was saying 5-6mm for the overall diameter of the wheel ? Wouldn't the top of the wheel surface go up by 6.5mm if the tyre is 3.25mm thicker by sidewall ?

Sir, I beg to differ. It would be the radius you need to consider to see how much of the gap that was previously there is not there now. The other 3.25 mm that is as part of the diameter would be at the bottom arch thus increasing the GC of the car, that part would not effect how closer the tyre is now to the wheel arch. Only the top arch would effect it, and that would be 3.25 mm nearer to the arch now as compared to earlier.

Originally Posted by sdatta

Good to hear that, so I called the tyreshop again, and he now said he has put this to several Hondas and only 1 had this issue, so it could very well be issue with that car's suspension... and that too it was happening for the rear wheels not front ones when 4-5 people sitting. He said the shockers must be gone...I understand all this completely, but it's important to have some kind of check beforehand by testing my car's suspension...So he said he can check the car's wheel and arch's difference in spacing and confirm if this tyre 195/60 R15 will cause any issue or not...

He also said, that if the tyre does indeed cause any problem in my car, and I want to return it to him for the stock size even the next day I stand to lose about 50% of the price ... thats what they transact with the showroom buy-backs when new cars change tyre. Is that the normal case ? I read in this forum that another guy, was in similar situation and he had to pay 1000 only to exchange different tyre .. but there it was a mistake by the tyreshop as they put wrong size thinking it will work but it didn't.

Sir, normally tyre shops do not take tyres back once they have installed them on a customer car unless until it was their mistake in suggesting the correct upsize and the customer finds faults with their installation. So, what they mentioned about you losing 50% if you change your mind later might as-well be true. So, you need to make-up your mind before the installation.

I think the clear choices you have are the stock size 175/65 or the upsize 195/60.

[sdatta]

Originally Posted by kalyan_hyd

Sir, I beg to differ. It would be the radius you need to consider to see how much of the gap that was previously there is not there now. The other 3.25 mm that is as part of the diameter would be at the bottom arch thus increasing the GC of the car, that part would not effect how closer the tyre is now to the wheel arch. Only the top arch would effect it, and that would be 3.25 mm nearer to the arch now as compared to earlier.

Thanks mate.. you are absolutely right ! Sorry I wasn't thinking straight! So it's a barely 3.25mm reduction of gap on the wheel-arch side, - so I guess if the wheel arch is touching the tyre with such a minor change, it probably would have touched even before had one of the 3 person sitting in the back was slightly fat Or may be even without that on a different shaped speedbreaker! Either way I'm guessing such a minute difference should not make the wheel touch the arch.

Originally Posted by kalyan_hyd

I think the clear choices you have are the stock size 175/65 or the upsize 195/60.

Yes, abosolutely.. and I'm inclined towards 195/60 R15 as I always was as I wanted to get a better grip on the highway speed and be more comfortable on the corners and handling (I used to drive a Swift before, with 185mm Michelin XM1 and used to love the way it handled the corners on high speed), - I'm guessing that's what only 195 wil give me and 175 won't, right ? BTW did you upgrade from Michelin XM1 or MRF ? Which year's city is yours ? Mine is 2010, before the Suspension upgrade in 2012.

[kalyan_hyd]

Originally Posted by sdatta

Thanks mate.. you are absolutely right ! Sorry I wasn't thinking straight! So it's a barely 3.25mm reduction of gap on the wheel-arch side, - so I guess if the wheel arch is touching the tyre with such a minor change, it probably would have touched even before had one of the 3 person sitting in the back was slightly fat Or may be even without that on a different shaped speedbreaker! Either way I'm guessing such a minute difference should not make the wheel touch the arch.

You are right, sir, in saying that if its brushing the wheel arch after this upgrade, it might as-well have touched with the stock tyre. To add to the benefit of the other car owner who suffered that issue is 195/60 would definitely be heavier to 175/65 so if he was running on the old soft suspension, perhaps the suspension conked-out after the heavier tyres were put-on or as part of his daily usage.

Originally Posted by sdatta

Yes, abosolutely.. and I'm inclined towards 195/60 R15 as I always was as I wanted to get a better grip on the highway speed and be more comfortable on the corners and handling (I used to drive a Swift before, with 185mm Michelin XM1 and used to love the way it handled the corners on high speed), - I'm guessing that's what only 195 wil give me and 175 won't, right ? BTW did you upgrade from Michelin XM1 or MRF ? Which year's city is yours ? Mine is 2010, before the Suspension upgrade in 2012.

My car is from Nov, 2009. I had a suspension upgrade in 2013 increasing the GC to 165 mm. I had Michelin XM1 175/65 R15 as stock tyres. I used them for 5.5 years and up to 50k kms on the odometer. A few of my friends here have the City with other that Michelin tyres and I have driven all of them. I could always feel the difference.

After moving to 195/60, the grip, braking, cornering and the high-speed stability has improved a lot. Noise-wise, since the generation of evolution of Michelin tyres has been XM1 -> XM2 -> P3ST, they have worked a lot on that and I feel the current P3STs are the most noise-less in that order. XM2s have their own advantages that you already laid-out.

One point to remember would be that, after the upgrade, play around with different PSI's. I started with 32 but felt the rides were rough and bumpy. I then went down to 30 on all four wheels and the car feels better now. The FE has been consistent at around 11.5 kmpl in city(Hyderabad) driving conditions and around 15 kmpl on highways. I normally use the CIty for office commute and am mostly alone. With the car full, I might need to bump up the tyre pressure to 31 or so.

[aghate]

I wanted to know if I can go with 195/60-15 Michelin XM2 and swap all 5 tyres. This seems to be the ideal choice after going through the posts here. The suspension on my car is a bit hard, guess the added weight of the 195 section tyre would help it in a way. Would the wide tyre fit the stock wheels? I have the 2009 'S' model which does not have alloys.

Appreciate your help.

Any other options are also welcome. My requirement is low noise and good performance overall.

[kalyan_hyd]

Originally Posted by aghate

I wanted to know if I can go with 195/60-15 Michelin XM2 and swap all 5 tyres. This seems to be the ideal choice after going through the posts here. The suspension on my car is a bit hard, guess the added weight of the 195 section tyre would help it in a way. Would the wide tyre fit the stock wheels? I have the 2009 'S' model which does not have alloys.

Appreciate your help.

Any other options are also welcome. My requirement is low noise and good performance overall.

Sir, while the upsize seems like the right-size, personally, I would not recommend this on a non-alloy wheel. I am not a tyre expert so a tyre shop person can give you more details on the compatibility.

Also, any reason why P3STs were not considered instead of XM2.

[aghate]

Originally Posted by kalyan_hyd

Sir, while the upsize seems like the right-size, personally, I would not recommend this on a non-alloy wheel. I am not a tyre expert so a tyre shop person can give you more details on the compatibility.

Also, any reason why P3STs were not considered instead of XM2.

Thanks mate! I am too young to be addressed as Sir btw..
I read that XM2 is more durable than the P3STs. I have just bought the 'Gray Hound'. It is a pre-owned one, so not considering to spend much on it right now. Have to pamper it with other things. Have just completed it's 40k comprehensive service, cost me a whopper.

I did discuss with a dealer today and one of my expert friend's. They have recommended to go with standard size 175/65 R15. I won't be driving it much as well.

[aghate]

Got the 4 tyres changed for my City. Bought the Michelin XM2 175/65 R15. The tyres cost me INR 5150/- each. I am new to driving so cannot say much about what is the difference between the old and new. I can feel a bit of improvement in the level of comfort though. I drive sedately, not much off an go into the corners like hell driving

Got 16.5 kmpl with AC on in city + highway combined traffic conditions.

[sdatta]

Finally upgraded from MRF 175/65/R15 to Michaelin Primacy 3ST 195/60/R15 as suggested by most in this thread, also for being a Michelin fan from my Maruti Swift days.

And now I am thinking why I didn't do it before! The old tyres were run only about 32K km but for almost 5 years the car drives much smooth now and the cornering abilities improved drastically which was my main reason to go for a wider tyre.

I was worried about multiple things and that delayed this upgrade and I'll list my feedback for each of these as some others might be concerned about this also.

1. The look of the 195 tyre on the standard alloys of 5.5J size. - Some posts here mention about this and I had worried if the tyre side wall will look balloon. To me it looks fine.. 195 is the max size that a 5.5J can hold as per the spec I read somewhere and I find it to be accurate. See photos


2. Mileage - - this is odd but my mileage IMPROVED. I was getting 11.9 constantly on the dashboard and now I am getting 13+ on mixed condition driving in Pune. I can tell the moment I started the car it felt to me that the car is accelerating faster, rolling faster (firmly but faster). I thought they must have over inflated the tyre, so I measure the pressure (at Shell pump fairly accurate machine in cold condition) and it read 30 in the back, 31 in the front.... My old tyres used to be 33 in front and 30 in back as recommended by Honda and I always measure tyre pressure in cold condition. (usually morning, and not driven more than 2 km). The only logical explanation I can think of behind this mileage improvement is that it's possible that my old tyres were too bad, became so hard and it was difficult for the car to get enough friction to make it roll...but I dont know if it makes sense technically. Anyway, the point is that clearly if you are worried about mileage, I dont think this tyre will reduce any mileage for you, and may even make it better.

3. Tyre touching wheel arch when multiple people sitting in back - One tyre dealer told me this that he had a customer with this problem, and also I read one post on the internet where this happened. I have not tried sitting 3 people in the back but with my wife and kid in the back, the tyre hasn't touch the wheel arch and I don't think it ever will.

So, super happy with this tyre upgrade. I didn't even talk about noise and riding comfort much as those are pretty much obvious on this tyre as mentioned in multiple posts. One important point though is that I dont think look of the car improves much by this upgrade as it's a very low ground clearance car, and you barely see the tyre. When I upgraded tyre on my Swift the looks enhancement was dramatic, but with the Honda city, well not much...(see photo)

[akhilesh]

I see lot of reviews for 195/60/R15
Need an opinion on 185/65/R15 - how do these perform in terms of increasing ground clearance and Mileage. also do they interfere with any body part like wheel arch, mud flap etc..

any information will be appreciated

[aghate]

Originally Posted by akhilesh

I see lot of reviews for 195/60/R15
Need an opinion on 185/65/R15 - how do these perform in terms of increasing ground clearance and Mileage. also do they interfere with any body part like wheel arch, mud flap etc..

any information will be appreciated

Check Vid6639's comment on this link from another thread. It might be helpful.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...-thread-4.html

[skyliner34]

Here are my new wheels

Brand: MOMO (Revenge)
Size: 15" 4x100
Cost: 7.5k/wheel

[amar.madhavan]

Originally Posted by rjalihal

Thank you Shamanth and VVB for your valuable replies. Both of you have suggested Yokohamas, which is interesting since a few posts back, Nikhil was suggesting Michelins. But going by the explanation given, I guess the Yokos offer a perfect blend. Now I have narrowed down my choices.

Hi Rohan, I hope you have upgraded to 195/60R15. I am also planning to upgrade the shoes of my City V AT to 195/60R15. Can you please let me know the tyres which you finally bought and quick review of the same ?

Also feel free to let me know if you recommend any other brands like Pirelli or continental ? My priorities are extremely low noise, good grip (wet and dry) and looks :-) .

Thanks
Amar