[Samurai]

I live along the NH17 in really battered road conditions. All cars in my house including the Santro have tubeless, why is it a problem?

[St. Anger]

Well, am just a bit skeptical about punctures and cuts on the tyres leading to premature wear and tear .

Am currently putting in a bomb to get my sweetheart back on track and don't wanna make a false move. Dad'll kill me otherwise.

[Samurai]

Actually you are safer with tubeless, I have driven hundreds/thousands of miles sometimes with a puncture in the tyres. Just keep an inflator handy. Can't do that in a tube type.

[St. Anger]

So you recommend that tubeless tyres will be a better option especially in terms of reliability ?

If yes, then could you guide me to Michelin/ yokohama dealers in Northern Mumbai.

What prices am i looking at for a set of 5 Michelin's/ Yokohama's.

Also, pricing for Aura/ Neo alloys

Importantly, will the size indicated 165/65/R13 fit in my stepney area ?

[iraghava]

Originally Posted by St. Anger

Hi Kp (hope u don't mind me calling u that),

Actually he prefers to be addressed by his full name "Kevin Prasad" so from next time onwards kindly use the same.

Originally Posted by St. Anger

So you recommend that tubeless tyres will be a better option especially in terms of reliability ?

Yes, as Samurai said the benefits of tubeless tyres are far greater compared to tubed tyres. Especially keeping in mind the conditions of our roads.

Originally Posted by St. Anger

If yes, then could you guide me to Michelin/ yokohama dealers in Northern Mumbai.

Michelin dealer list you can access through their website : Michelin India - Home, for Yokohama dealers you can contact Mr. Arun Zariwal at 9820797692

Originally Posted by St. Anger

What prices am i looking at for a set of 5 Michelin's/ Yokohama's.

In 165/65 R13 I guess you would be looking at around 2.4k-2.6k per tyre.

Originally Posted by St. Anger

Importantly, will the size indicated 165/65/R13 fit in my stepney area ?

Yes, it will fit without any issues.

[St. Anger]

Sorry, sorry , sorry.

No hard feelings, i hope, Kevin Prasad.

I found the Michelin dealer through the website and will consider Yokohama's too.

Between Michelin and Yokohama, which brand do you prefer given the
price,
performance
and longevity/reliability

[rks]

Here is an update. My Bridgestone S322 tyres lasted just 24000 kms. As per Hyundai mechanics, the bad state of my shocks and steering column (heavy vibrations on bad roads) is the primary reason for premature tyre wear.

One of the S322 tubeless tyres developed a bulge at 23000 kms upon hitting a massive pothole at high speed (~100 kmph) on the Expressway (!) just prior to exiting at Mumbai. The Neo alloys that I am using (Neo Star SM) have proven to be very sturdy and were undamaged. Tubetype tyres should prove to be more resistant to potholes, but I have found that even one of my tubetype tyres developed a flat spot after about 25000 kms on the Mumbai-Pune route (probably due to hard braking and cornering on the Expressway).

So I strongly back tubeless tyres over tubetype after my experience so far. They are much safer, and if properly maintained, much more convenient because you can drive straight to the puncture shop at your convenience rather than get stranded somewhere with a flat. Futher, risk of running flat and losing control or damaging the tyre/wheel is much higher with tubetype tyres.

After suspension and steering column overhaul, I have now gone for Bridgestone Turanza ER-60 tyres (155/70 R13) and they are very good. Have done about 2000 kms so far. Will have to wait and see if the handling remains good after the tread has worn. With S322 tubeless tyres I noticed that the handling and grip deteriorated after the tyres had worn out to about 5-6 mm remaining tread.,

[St. Anger]

Hmmmm, i was anyways planning for an entire check up and maintenance session for my Santro. Had ticked the brakes, suspension overhaul, but hadn't thought of the steering column. Thanks a ton 'rks'

Also, how much did it cost you per wheel/ tyre combo or the entire set of 4/5 wheels and respective tyres ?

[anupmathur]

I didn't know they did a 4WD Santro.
Sorry, coming to the point, I'd say tubeless. If you are very worried about punctures, do consider these new generation 'puncture sealants' that are available today. Perhaps you could check out Airseal Tyremilk:
Airseal Tyre Milk is available at Rawat Automobiles,
41 & 42 Jamroodpur Auto Complex, G.K. Part 1, New Delhi 110048
Mobile: 91-98110 50088
Tel: 91-11-29231467
Mr. Rajesh Rawat

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by anupmathur

I didn't know they did a 4WD Santro.

Not all SUVs are 4WD. Actually I too have used my Santro as an off-roader sometimes, simply because it has shorter wheel base compared to the bigger car. Too bad we can't get all-terrain tyres in 165/65 range.

[rks]

Originally Posted by rks

After suspension and steering column overhaul, I have now gone for Bridgestone Turanza ER-60 tyres (155/70 R13) and they are very good.

One more point which I forgot to mention. I recently took my friend, who owns a Getz GLS (2005), to Mumbai and then back to Pune in my old Santro, with the newly fitted Turanza ER-60 tyres. This friend had owned a Santro Xing earlier and had the usual impressions of Santro being unsafe for the highway, "shaking" at speeds of 120 kmph or higher and so on. He sold the Santro Xing and went for the Getz primarily because he wanted a safer, better-handling car for the highway.

Well, my friend was just stunned by the handling of my old Santro at speeds like 130-145 kmph (remember, I have 5J alloys, tubeless tyres over-inflated to 35 psi and I was also using Speed 97, which marginally improves the pickup and smoothness). He said that my Santro's handling is not only markedly superior to that of his (fully stock) Xing, it is even better than that of his (fully stock) Getz! That is the ultimate compliment.

I removed his misconceptions about Santro by leaving both hands at 145 kmph on the Expressway; the car tracked dead straight with no "shaking" whatsoever. Further there was no tyre noise at all when cornering; I never pushed the car like I used to when I was driving alone (for fear of scaring the guy), but he was still mighty impressed by the car's pickup and handling at high speed. He plans to shift to tubeless tyres shortly for his Getz, which he says generates a lot of tyre noise when cornering on stock tubetype tyres. And he has never pushed the Getz beyond 120 kmph, which is his limit.

If you plan to push Santro to high speeds, I strongly recommend tubeless tyres and also that tyre pressures be set accurately and evenly on all tyres (when tyres are cold, preferably with your own accurate gauge). This, together with proper wheel alignment/balancing and in my case, the right alloys, makes a *huge* difference.

Edit: @ St. Anger, my Neo alloys cost me about Rs. 3300 per piece ( I bought 5 of these). I got the 155/70 R13 Turanza ER-60 tyres at Rs. 2250 per tyre.

[St. Anger]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Too bad we can't get all-terrain tyres in 165/65 range.

You bet, what fun it would have been then.
Maybe something on the lines of the Fiat Adventure, if i may recall correctly.
Now what tyres did that car have ?

[moralfibre]

Originally Posted by rks

Here is an update. My Bridgestone S322 tyres lasted just 24000 kms. As per Hyundai mechanics, the bad state of my shocks and steering column (heavy vibrations on bad roads) is the primary reason for premature tyre wear.

I am using Bridgestone S322 tube-type tyres on my Palio 1.6 Sport 175/65/R14. I recently completed about 24000 kms on the car and the tread has gone down to just 50%. Surprised to know that heavy vibrations on bad roads caused them to wear out so fast. I have used these tyres for 1 year now and I haven't complained for whatsoever reasons except for fish tailing on one corner at speeds in excess of 160kmph on NH-17.

I feel the wornout suspension and steering rack is due to wider contact patch of your tyres and rims. I have experienced worn out suspension on my Zen very frequently because I used to be cornering hard always taking every advantage of grip the wider contact patch of the Alloys and tyres (5.5 j with 165/65/R13) on the Zen had to offer. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/548720-post14.html An eye opener post.

One of the S322 tubeless tyres developed a bulge at 23000 kms upon hitting a massive pothole at high speed (~100 kmph) on the Expressway (!) just prior to exiting at Mumbai.

That is normal behaviour of a tubeless tyre. Question is whether you used the tyres for another 1000 kms with the bulge? I had a Zen with 165/65/R13 Bridgestone Potenza GIII tyres which had two bulges each on 3 tyres due to bad roads in Reay road Bombay where the car was used by my brother near the docks. Bridgestone honoured warranty (tyres had done about 18k kms) after measuring tread depth using a vernier caliper like device to ensure that the alignment balancing has been done at regular intervals and the tread wear is uniform overall. We paid Rs. 400/- per tyre for a new tyre costed nearly Rs. 2,600/- back then.

much more convenient because you can drive straight to the puncture shop at your convenience rather than get stranded somewhere with a flat. Futher, risk of running flat and losing control or damaging the tyre/wheel is much higher with tubetype tyres.

With tubeless tyres I have been stranded due to a complete blow out of air after hitting a pothole. So not always!

After suspension and steering column overhaul, I have now gone for Bridgestone Turanza ER-60 tyres (155/70 R13) and they are very good. Have done about 2000 kms so far. Will have to wait and see if the handling remains good after the tread has worn. With S322 tubeless tyres I noticed that the handling and grip deteriorated after the tyres had worn out to about 5-6 mm remaining tread.,

They are good tyres too.

Originally Posted by rks

One more point which I forgot to mention. I recently took my friend, who owns a Getz GLS (2005), to Mumbai and then back to Pune in my old Santro, with the newly fitted Turanza ER-60 tyres. This friend had owned a Santro Xing earlier and had the usual impressions of Santro being unsafe for the highway, "shaking" at speeds of 120 kmph or higher and so on. He sold the Santro Xing and went for the Getz primarily because he wanted a safer, better-handling car for the highway.

Getz handles better than the Santro in stock form with stock rims and tyres. With upgraded tyres on each of the Santro and the Getz, the Getz will outperform the Santro over and over again. I have both at home (stock form mind you) and I can assure you that the Getz is a better handler.

Well, my friend was just stunned by the handling of my old Santro at speeds like 130-145 kmph (remember, I have 5J alloys, tubeless tyres over-inflated to 35 psi and I was also using Speed 97, which marginally improves the pickup and smoothness). He said that my Santro's handling is not only markedly superior to that of his (fully stock) Xing, it is even better than that of his (fully stock) Getz! That is the ultimate compliment.

I wonder how your friend managed to get a feel of handling even without being at the steering wheel. Also he hasn't experienced speeds more than 120kmph according to your post.

I removed his misconceptions about Santro by leaving both hands at 145 kmph on the Expressway; the car tracked dead straight with no "shaking" whatsoever. Further there was no tyre noise at all when cornering; I never pushed the car like I used to when I was driving alone (for fear of scaring the guy), but he was still mighty impressed by the car's pickup and handling at high speed. He plans to shift to tubeless tyres shortly for his Getz, which he says generates a lot of tyre noise when cornering on stock tubetype tyres. And he has never pushed the Getz beyond 120 kmph, which is his limit.

I again wonder how he managed to get a feel of the pickup and handling at high speeds when he was not driving.

[faithless_1984]

Originally Posted by rks

I removed his misconceptions about Santro by leaving both hands at 145 kmph on the Expressway;

Good job.....next time close your eyes and show your friend how the car senses itself that it needs to stop and applies the brakes.

I again wonder how he managed to get a feel of the pickup and handling at high speeds when he was not driving.

Yes how did he get a feel of the pickup and handling ?

[rks]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

I feel the wornout suspension and steering rack is due to wider contact patch of your tyres and rims. I have experienced worn out suspension on my Zen very frequently because I used to be cornering hard always taking every advantage of grip the wider contact patch of the Alloys and tyres (5.5 j with 165/65/R13) on the Zen had to offer. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/548720-post14.html An eye opener post.

I also suspect this. My alloys also have a lower wheel offset of 26 mm as compared to 46 mm stock and that may be another reason for the added strain on suspension/steering components. And I am told that the Expressway concrete just eats up the tyres when the speeds exceed 130 kmph, and hard cornering and braking on the Expressway are no-nos if you want tyre life.

That is normal behaviour of a tubeless tyre. Question is whether you used the tyres for another 1000 kms with the bulge? I had a Zen with 165/65/R13 Bridgestone Potenza GIII tyres which had two bulges each on 3 tyres due to bad roads in Reay road Bombay where the car was used by my brother near the docks. Bridgestone honoured warranty (tyres had done about 18k kms) after measuring tread depth using a vernier caliper like device to ensure that the alignment balancing has been done at regular intervals and the tread wear is uniform overall. We paid Rs. 400/- per tyre for a new tyre costed nearly Rs. 2,600/- back then.

I was told by my tyre shop that there is no hope of getting Bridgestone to honour warranty. So this is indeed interesting. The alignment was proper in my tyres too and the wear was even. I never used the tyre after it developed the bulge (except to drive it home and then to Hyundai service). I think the risk of a tyre burst is too high and the car's handling was noticeably bad at speeds in excess of 80 kmph.

With tubeless tyres I have been stranded due to a complete blow out of air after hitting a pothole. So not always!

That is a risk, but it happens rarely. Was your tyre under-inflated by any chance? Then chances of blowout and tyre/wheel damage are higher. But in my view the benefits far outweigh the risks as far as tubeless tyres are concerned.

Getz handles better than the Santro in stock form with stock rims and tyres. With upgraded tyres on each of the Santro and the Getz, the Getz will outperform the Santro over and over again. I have both at home (stock form mind you) and I can assure you that the Getz is a better handler.

Of course. I don't take my friend's words literally. I just wanted to convey his good impressions.

I wonder how your friend managed to get a feel of handling even without being at the steering wheel. Also he hasn't experienced speeds more than 120kmph according to your post.

He was highly impressed with the way my car tracked dead straight and cut lanes with ease at high speeds. He said that his (stock) Xing was much more shaky at higher speeds. He says the Getz on stock tyres does not inspire the same confidence and makes a lot of tyre noise. But then again, I don't take everything he said literally, for obviously he is not an expert. As for pickup, I think that is due to the non-stock setup in my Santro (higher tyre pressures, lighter alloys, tubeless tyres, Speed 97 all contributing their bits) and my friend could see the ease with which I could overtake on the crowded Sion-Panvel highway and Pune bypass road.

@faithless_1984, momentarily leaving the hands when on the middle lane is no big deal, even at 145 kmph. I do that occasionally to see if my car is tracking straight (basically to also see if all my tyres in good shape and holding air).