[rks]

Originally Posted by Murugan

1. Can I mix and match tube type and tubeless tyres?
2. New tyres at the rear or front?
3. Is this four seasons rule true? Do I need to change the 'ok' 2 even though they may last another 10,000+ kilometres?
4. If going tubeless should I change all 5 or only 4 and use the tube type as stepney?
5. I thought +1 upsizing improves performance (road grip, cornering ability etc) but brings down ride comfort and mileage. Am I wrong?
6. Are alloy wheels mandatory for tubeless tyres?
7. Was pleasantly surprised by the buy-back offer for my old 'ok' tyre for Rs.250. Is that a good offer/ acceptable?

1. Not advisable. Especially since your tubetype tyres are old and the tubeless ones will be brand new. Tubeless tyres have different handling charecteristics from the tubetype and in this case, will be much more grippy than your old tubetype tyres. So your handling will be seriously affected; if you put tubeless in the front/back you will probably experience oversteer/understeer, if you drive at some speed on the highway. As the rainy season is approaching, you have to seriously worry about wet handling and grip. Also the sidewalls of the tubeless tyres do not flex as much as in the tubetype and this causes different handling, especially when cornering. Finally remember that the speed ratings also matter. Your tubetype tyres are S-rated (max. speed 180 kmph) and your tubeless tyres are likely to be T-rated (190 kmph) or H-rated (210 kmph). This also causes differences in handling and grip.

Of course if you plan to drive only in the city, you can get away with mix and match. But in any case remember that you should not mix the tyres on the same axle, i.e., you should have tyres of the same type on the front axle and likewise on the rear. Secondly, do not upsize your tubeless tyres if you are retaining two old tubetype tyres of stock size. This will make the understeer/oversteer problem even more accute and could also cause problems with suspension.

2. If you plan to do a lot of highway driving, and if you are determined to mix and match, I recommend that you put the tubeless tyres at the rear. Drive (carefully!) for 10000 kms and then rotate your tubeless tyres to the front and then put new tubeless ones (of the same type) at the rear. If you put tubeless at the front, remember that there is a serious possibility of oversteer (especially in wet conditions) and also that your car's handling will change drastically from what you are used to at present.

3. I strongly recommend that you change all 5 tyres. That is the safest course of action, taking all angles into consideration.

4. Change all 5. Mixing tyres on the same axle is bad for the suspension and is strongly discouraged by car/tyre manufacturers.

5. If you plan to retain your stock steel rims (which are of 4J width) then do not upsize your tyres to 165/65. With 4.5J or 5J alloys you can upsize the tyres. Your ride comfort and handling will be good, as per the experience of others (e.g. Samurai). The wider tyres/rims take potholes better and will improve braking in dry conditions. Your top speed and FE should come down slightly as compared to stock-size tyres.

If you put stock size tubeless tyres on 5J alloys (which is the maximum rim width allowed for 155/70 tyres) then you will get better high-speed handling than with 165/65 tyres, because the sidewalls will not flex so much under fast cornering. But your ride comfort could come down a notch, for the same reason. Your top speed and FE will be marginally better as compared to upsized tyres. In my experience, the grip is excellent even with stock-size tubeless tyres on 5J alloys. Remember that the wider wheels offer a wider contact patch even without any upsizing.

If you plan to do a lot of high-speed driving in the rain (which I do on the Pune-Mumbai highway every week) then keep in mind that wet grip could be adversely affected by wider tyres, as the possbility of aquplaning increases, especially as the tyres get older. With my set-up of stock-size tyres on 5J alloys, I can virtually floor the pedal even on wet roads and the tyres grip adequately. But if you are driving in the city you don't have to worry much about this factor.

6. Depends on the condition of your steel rims. If they are bent or rusted, go for alloys. If you plan to upsize your tyres, then you *have* to go for alloys as I pointed out. The tyre dealer should be able to check your steel rims and advise you on whether they are suitable for (stock-size) tubeless tyres. I ran stock-size S322 tubeless tyres on my steel rims for about 10000 kms (six months) with no problems, even though my rims were already 6 years old and beginning to rust. But I found that the rims were getting bent at the edges due to driving on bad roads and eventually switched to alloys as recommended by the tyre dealer. The handling has improved and potholes are soaked in better with the wider wheels.

7. Not sure about this.

[razor4077]

My 2 cents:
1. Can I mix and match tube type and tubeless tyres?
Yes, but having similar tyres all around would be advisable. Tubeless tyres are in general more comfortable, more resistant to punctures and of a better quality than the tube-types.

2. New tyres at the rear or front?
Both IMHO.

3. Is this four seasons rule true? Do I need to change the 'ok' 2 even though they may last another 10,000+ kilometres?
Never heard of such a "season-specific" rule. You should base the decision more on the number of kms the tyres have done and their overall condition, rather than worry about the number of summers they have seen!

4. If going tubeless should I change all 5 or only 4 and use the tube type as stepney?
You can use the tube-type that is in decent nick as a stepney.

5. I thought +1 upsizing improves performance (road grip, cornering ability etc) but brings down ride comfort and mileage. Am I wrong?
Comfort and mileage don't go down very appreciably for a +1 upsize. These are affected when you go for a bigger upsize. The width of the sidewall is a major contributor to the comfort factor. Stock Santro tyres (155/70/13) have 108.5 mm sidewalls. Upgrading to 165/65/13 reduces this by just 1.25 mm to 107.25. This can easily be compensated by better quality rubber (which is why tubeless would be good for you).

6. Are alloy wheels mandatory for tubeless tyres?
No, but they are recommended. Since in tubeless tyres the air is trapped between the rim and the tyre walls, a slight bend in the rim can cause air to escape. Steel rims are more prone to this "bending" than the stronger alloy rims. Alloys are also lighter, and so have less unsprung weight, leading to a more comfortable ride. And of course, they look much cooler

7. Was pleasantly surprised by the buy-back offer for my old 'ok' tyre for Rs.250. Is that a good offer/ acceptable?
Just about ok... tyres really don't have a good buy-back value, so you take what you get.

KP and Ishan have already mentioned the Michelins and Yokos as good choices for you. I'd also recommend the Goodyear GA Plus in the 165/65/13 size. Been using them for close to 3 years on my Santro and have been very satisfied with the comfort and grip levels they offer.
Hope this helps. All the best!

[khanak]

I have 165/65/13 tires on steel rims on my Santro and have not had any problem. Iv already been through a set of Goodyear tubeless tires and so I don't see anything wrong with running your stock rims unless you want to upgrade. I believe Viper is running 175/60/13 on stock rims on his Santro and I don't think he has had any problem with them.

When I was looking for tyres for my Santro I had the option of

175/60/13 - Yokohama A539/Bridgestone Potenza G3
165/65/13 - Michelin XM1

The G3s were for 2900, the XM1s for 2600 and the A539s were for 2300 IIRC

Finally went with the Michelins. I believe you are not supposed to mix tubeless and tubed tires. Also since your tires have already crossed 40k kms which is the average life of a tire why don't you go in for 4 new ones. I dont think you need to be worried about the spare too much since you are hardly going to be using it anyways and even if you do it would just be for a few kilometers.

[khanak]

Originally Posted by rks

If you put stock size tubeless tyres on 5J alloys (which is the maximum rim width allowed for 155/70 tyres) then you will get better high-speed handling than with 165/65 tyres, because the sidewalls will not flex so much under fast cornering. But your ride comfort could come down a notch, for the same reason. Your top speed and FE will be marginally better as compared to upsized tyres. In my experience, the grip is excellent even with stock-size tubeless tyres on 5J alloys. Remember that the wider wheels offer a wider contact patch even without any upsizing.

The difference in sidewall height between 165/65 and 155/60 is just .1 inch which shouldn't make a noticeable difference to the ride and I havent been able to tell any difference in ride since I up sized. The difference in sidewall height between 155/70 and 175/60 is just .2 of an inch which again isn't anything to be too worried about.

I didn't quite understand the second part, Are you saying that a 155 width tire will have a greater contact patch when mounted on a wider rim? Can someone confirm is this is really true.

[aZa]

Just upgraded to Yokohama A539 in 175/60/13 , got a yokohama backpack free along with it. 5 years warranty.

The rides very SMOOTH compared to potenzas but mine were totally worn out so maybe thats why. Another thing the footprint of potenza was wider i think. the yokos dont look that wide / broad if viewed from the back. maybe the tyres needs to be run in ...

[faithless_1984]

Oye nice.!
I like the tread design.

[kpzen]

Congrats aZa.!!
Please post a pic of the backpack.

[aZa]

Thanx KP and ISHAN!! Awesome recommendation backpack pic coming up

[Murugan]

Originally Posted by aZa

Just upgraded to Yokohama A539 in 175/60/13 , got a yokohama backpack free along with it. 5 years warranty.

What are those red and blue lines for?

[aZa]

murugan i have no idea. KP or ishan would be able to explain.


KP the backpack!

[rks]

Originally Posted by khanak

Are you saying that a 155 width tire will have a greater contact patch when mounted on a wider rim? Can someone confirm is this is really true.

Yes. If you compare 155/70 tyres mounted on 5J alloys as compared to the stock 4J rims, you can see that the tyres look much wider. The wider rim forces a greater contact patch. But for the same reason, the sidewalls do not have much scope for flexing on the wider rims and so ride comfort will come down. In fact 165/65 tyres on 5J alloys should give better ride comfort than 155/70 on 5J. Because the sidewalls, while they are almost of the same height, will flex more with the wider tyres. But for the same reason, 155/70 tyres on 5J should give better high-speed handling, as it is not desirable to have too much sidewall flex while cornering hard. So my setup is biased towards better handling at the cost of some ride comfort. My top speed and FE should also be marginally better.

[Murugan]

Originally Posted by Murugan

Checked with a few dealers on my way home. Their comments:

Dealer 1. Change only 2, ...

Dealer 2. Put the 2 new ones in the rear as per Michelin's 'new' advisory. He showed a mini brouchure from Michelin.

Dealer 3. Change 4 as they are 4 years old, ...

Dealer 4. If going tubeless change 4. You cannot mix and match ...

Dealer 5: Change all 5 if going tubeless... And go +1 size... Alloy wheels are mandatory for tubeless.

I am confused by the huge disparity in the answers that I got in a total time of less than 30 minutes.

The most economical option seems to be 2 tubeless (in the front or rear?) and change the other 2 when necessary.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...santro-20.html

Please see the pictures of Michelin's advisory and give your opinion.

[kpzen]

Murugan
Why not just play safe by getting four new tubeless tyres.!!

[vkochar]

Hey, those Yokohamas have a really nice tread design. How much for a tyre ??

The Backpack's also a great deal. A few months back I got a Reebok Tracksuit with 4 Michelins ( for my Santro ).

These new companies keep coming up with nice offers. The other day I saw something like - Buy 4 tyres and get 1 tyre free !!! ( I think MRF or Ceat )

[chevelle]

Hello every1,
I own a 2006 Santro Xing XL
currently my car runs on stock tyres and rims.
I am looking to get new tyres for santro.
My primary requirement is good ride and comfort with if possible a little help in handling department.
It like the ration of 75% ride comfort and 25% handling.

Can anybody suggest me which company's tyre wud b suited and what size. and will i need to change the stock rims.

is 165/65/13 good for getting good ride and a little better handling than stock ones. and will it work well on stock rims or will i need to upgrade the rims. if i need to upgrade the rims what do u recommend, go for alloys or steel.
Which company's tire will suit my requirement.

I am confused as to which one would suit my needs.

Keeping in mind my requirements can the tyre experts here help me decide on a good tyre change.

Thanks in advance