[mail4ajo]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Not a big issue, apart from being a small irritant to enthusiasts

Thanks for the reassurance. Can you explain briefly why it goes off center? It was irritating at first, but started living with it after driving for a while.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by mail4ajo

Thanks for the reassurance. Can you explain briefly why it goes off center? It was irritating at first, but started living with it after driving for a while.

I am not sure it can be explained in a brief, but something which i found on the internet and will be helpful.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=749585

The Science: Total Toe
I won't go into detail about alignment and toe, you need to read this online. Basically, the problem is that when the alignment shop aligns your car, they center your steering wheel. The centerness of your steering wheel represents the "reference" for the alignment computer when it makes its adjustments. If the shop puts the top of your steering wheel at 10 o clock, and aligns your car, you will then drive the car straight while your steering wheel is at 10 o clock. Yet, all your front toe settings will be correct. Why is this??

This is because, the alignment system doesn't really give a damn where the steering wheel is. It can be slightly crooked for all it cares. It is trying to center the car for you mechanically at the position of where the steering wheel is.

[theexperthand]

After my recent tyre change, I visited Cherry tyres Jayanagar (Couldn't find time to visit Madhu's) to get the alignment and balancing done. The work done was just average and I forgot to check the alignment sheet then and there.

On reaching home and while going through the sheet, I saw that Right camber and caster values are outside boundaries after the alignment. I am attaching the picture of the alignment sheet - do I need to visit another shop and get alignment done properly, or are these values ok?



--Anoop

[rana_kirti]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

That's a long post and I think you realise that the guys at the tyre shop were better than VW fellows :P

The caster being in RED means wear and tear on a suspension component/part. That has to be replaced/repaired. If VW continue their process, they will never solve your problem.

Caster/Camber can get changed due to wear and tear resulting in worn out parts. Normally to bring it back within specification, some components, bushes may need to be changed or some adjustment has to be done by the OEM guys. But in your case clearly they are incompetent.

All I can say is, go back to the tyre shop, solve the problem to 90% and live with it. One of the drawbacks of the OEM guy not giving you proper service I guess.

Hi nikhil,

i researched further on the internet about left pulling and came upon the term "radial pull". further research led me to read about the Hunter Road Force GSP9700. I found about a tyre shop in my delhi which has this equipment and made an appointment with him.

Over there the owner explained and showed me how the machine works and post all tyres psi to 32 psi took road force and lateral measurements of all the 4 tyres. and then he then stuck weights on the red line showed by laser.

next the machine made the wheels OK and then tagged all 4 wheels with Straight Trak Technology. It then showed various options on the screen as to installing which wheel where will result in how much total lateral pull in which direction. it had options of least pull and least vibrations and also alternate options to both.

i choose a option which resulted in 25N pull to the right. Now my tyres are directional and 205 55 15 Hankook V8 RS. So we had to undo 2 tyres from the rims and remount it inside out to keep it consistent with the rotation arrow. The 2 tyres were then re balanced after this.

I'm not sure if this affects the overall result as the 4 tag position chart was decided with the tyres being balanced in the other direction. so effectively 2 tyres were rebalanced after the deciding the 4 position chart because my tyres are directional. I'm not sure how much this has affected the actual result.

Can the Hunter Road Force GSP9700 take care of the aspect of the tyres being Unidirectional while preparing a chart in where to place which tyre because 1 or more tyres might have have to swapped inside out for this ?!?

After this the car was aligned with a Hunter 511 machine. It seemed to be a pretty old design machine. did not have any 3d sensors but rather clamp ons with wires and a liquid based measuring device on top. Actually i was quite amused and surprised to see the best Balancing machine the Road Force GSP9700 partnered with a Hunter 511.

I told the owner to get a Hunter Elite Hawk Eye to complement the GSP9700 but he said he can get the same results with the 511 as the readings will be the same. Nevermind i told him i'd be happy if he can make my polo go straight.

After this we went on a test drive.... and my car went straight on level roads and on most roads. It drifts left as soon as there is left banking and camber on road. he told me this was normal and that my car is absolutely perfect. He told me to go home and drive my car over a variety of roads and come back in 2 weeks if i felt anything was wrong.

My Observations and Doubts....

1. While driving back over a distance of 20 kms i felt the car going Straight on most roads and for the first time in 4 months of owing the polo i really enjoyed driving it. It felt perfect. this is how my car should have been from day 1.

2. So in course of testing further yesterday i drove around with a friend on board. This time i felt the car tracks straight on most roads but is a bit more camber sensitive. i.e when i'm alone then on left cambered/banked roads the car goes straight but with a pax on board it drifts left in same conditions. What could be the reason for this ?

3. Overall I'm satisfied and at peace but a lingering query in my mind is that....

here in India most roads have in the range of a bit to excessive camber/banking on the left. Absolutely flat roads are rare. So if i'm driving on left camber roads 80 % of the time then should i not ask the alignment guy to direct the toe a bit to the right so that the car tracks straight on such roads ? But then i guess it will track right on perfect level roads.... right ? i'm a but confused.

cheers.

[vorajay]

Hi Guys - I need an advise for the uneven wear of rear tyres of my Honda City 2005. Attaching pics here. Those are the left and right tyres of the car. Is this again due to alignment issue? The front ones are perfectly fine shape.

My mechanic had inserted some wiser on the top bolts of the tyre to push them out from the upper side and also changed the wheel bearings. Is that correct.
He was also referring to some "GHADI" being bent as one of the issue.

Please help me here to understand what has happened to lead to such uneven wear and probable solutions [don't want new tyres to go bad like this so wanna make sure its rectified in the correct way]

I generally drive passive and take care not to go hard over the potholes and be slow wherever i can.

Please help asap
Cheers!

[lejhoom]

Originally Posted by vorajay

My mechanic had inserted some wiser on the top bolts of the tyre to push them out from the upper side and also changed the wheel bearings. Is that correct.
He was also referring to some "GHADI" being bent as one of the issue.

Please help asap
Cheers!

This is a classic case of tires not being rotated. What the mechanic tried was correct. Not sure of the wheel bearing change though. In fact, not many cars have the provision for adjustment in rear wheels. In such scenario, tire rotation to extract as much life as possible is the only solution.

[vorajay]

Originally Posted by lejhoom

This is a classic case of tires not being rotated. What the mechanic tried was correct. Not sure of the wheel bearing change though. In fact, not many cars have the provision for adjustment in rear wheels. In such scenario, tire rotation to extract as much life as possible is the only solution.

but the tyres seemed to be inverted in the beginning. Once mechanic had inserted shims then it looks proper but i still have my doubts about it.

What causes the tyre to get inverted to the inside and how can we check if its proper now? can alignment guy say that ?

Also what is this DHADI that we was referring to? any clue on that?

for now i am planning to swap the rear tyres to check if the inner toe is still getting scraped off or not. How does that sound

[lejhoom]

What I understood is that there may be slight defect in the cross rail which makes the rear wheels go out of shape as happened to you. If the car is under warranty, you may ask the dealer to change it. Otherwise, the option available is what your mechanic tried. One more option is to take the cross rail to a lathe and straighten which of course is not a guaranteed option.

Wheel alignment guys do not do this. Only mechanics can do it. The process is a little laborious because the car has to be checked with 3D wheel alignment first and then one sleeve is added. Check the alignment again, and add one more if required. Need to confirm the accuracy once more with the alignment.

The fact is that all adjustments are carried out only in the front wheels at the time of alignment. Slight camber in the cross rail (some time contributed by potholes) will exhibit the effect only after the car has run several hundred kilometers. That is why tire rotation is necessary.

[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by rana_kirti

Hi nikhil,

i researched further on the internet about left pulling and came upon the term "radial pull". further research led me to read about the Hunter Road Force GSP9700. I found about a tyre shop in my delhi which has this equipment and made an appointment with him.

Over there the owner explained and showed me how the machine works and post all tyres psi to 32 psi took road force and lateral measurements of all the 4 tyres. and then he then stuck weights on the red line showed by laser.

Hi Rana,

I guess this is Mr. Rajeev Chaddha of Chaddha Service Station?

Anyway, after doing all the Road Force and Straightrak, your car is going straight. I think this solves the problem. If your car turns when there is a road camber, that is PERFECT. That is how a car should behave.

Dont change anything more. Just enjoy the car and DRIVE!

[sumeethaldankar]

Hello guys,

I had got my Civic's front suspension overhauled yesterday from a independent but trusted garage.I had gone to get the car aligned today at my regular alignment shop.I was told there that the ball joints seemed to be a size bigger and they were not able to get the alignment done correctly. They said a bunch of technical terms which went bouncer over me so in short when they were done with the alignment they said the car won't eat the tires but the steering would be a bit off center.

I had them speak to my garage guy who mentioned that he put branded original ball joints and not some spurious spares and quite frankly i believe him as i am going to him for years. Nevertheless the alignment shop asked me go back to him to get the ball joints replaced.My garage guy advised me to go to another alignment shop to get a second opinion and if they say the same then we could decided what to do next.

So i go to another shop and they say that everything is ok. I let them know that i had suspension overhaul yesterday but did not say anything about what the first alignment shop had diagnosed.I am attaching the report from the second shop.I wanted to know if anything is wrong with the figures in the report.The second shop said that the alignment is fine.



Let me know if this is cause for concern. I am running 205 65 R15 Bridgestone Turanza on my Civic.

Thanks a lot.

[vorajay]

Originally Posted by lejhoom

What I understood is that there may be slight defect in the cross rail which makes the rear wheels go out of shape as happened to you. If the car is under warranty, you may ask the dealer to change it. Otherwise, the option available is what your mechanic tried. One more option is to take the cross rail to a lathe and straighten which of course is not a guaranteed option.

Wheel alignment guys do not do this. Only mechanics can do it. The process is a little laborious because the car has to be checked with 3D wheel alignment first and then one sleeve is added. Check the alignment again, and add one more if required. Need to confirm the accuracy once more with the alignment.

The fact is that all adjustments are carried out only in the front wheels at the time of alignment. Slight camber in the cross rail (some time contributed by potholes) will exhibit the effect only after the car has run several hundred kilometers. That is why tire rotation is necessary.

Thanks. Anyclue where can I find a 3D wheel alignment centre in Mumbai pls?

Cheers!

[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar

Hello guys,


Thanks a lot.

Your car is fine. Dont worry too much.

There is some mild change but to be expected on an old car.

[sumeethaldankar]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

Your car is fine. Dont worry too much.

There is some mild change but to be expected on an old car.

Hi,

I have one more doubt if you don't mind.

Here is a pic of the left(passenger side) joint



and here is pic of the right side (driver side) .While the above left seems fine i feel the right side is a bit crooked. Will this cause any issue ?




Thanks a lot for your time.

[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar

Hi,

I have one more doubt if you don't mind.

I dont think it's too bad. Sometimes this can be because of the way the car was driven onto the spot.

Dont worry about it.

[coolboy007]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

Dont worry about it.

Nikhil,
We went to get the alignment done for my friend's Rapid after an overhaul of the suspension wherein all 4 struts were changed as they were weak. Car has done 34,000 kms.

The alignment was being performed on a 3D corghi machine with an intergrated lift so it is a nice set up. Get all my cars done there. They guy informed that the camber on left front wheel is way out of limits and asked me to go back and show it to the guy who replaced my struts as some thing is wrong with installation.

Can you tell me how to get camber corrected and how badly will it affect the tyres and other things. Attaching an image for your reference.