[rajeshchand]

Refer this thread http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...se-help-2.html

Have seem the same problem on my X1 run flats (goodyear) done 15k km, a huge bulge on the left hand front side tyre which i noticed today. Seriously thinking to switch over to the tubeless radials which never gave me a headache during the last 6 years in any of the vehicles in spite of having driven around on some (non-available) roads. Since i dont have the BSI i hope the normal warranty is not affected by this change, would speak to the Service center guys tomorrow and keep you all posted.

[sahil.propel]

Mod Note : Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another on the SAME THREAD! To know how to multi-quote, click here.

Hey guys.. ive owned a 320d in the past and now own 520d. Though i never got the confidence of shifting from rfts to tubeless in the past but finally gave up on rfts due to repeated damage to rfts on indian roads.. i got pirreli P7 installed on my 520d and the change is dramatic.. the car glides now compared to the rigid ride on rfts. P7 is known for 0 sound and awesome ride comfort.. the suspension of the car feels much softer and handling has improved a great deal. Also, i went for wider tyres (by 10mm) simply to increase stability and strength of the tyres.. costed my 18k per tyre and 33k for the space saver. I would higly recommend the switch.. and if ne1 needs any assistance please ask me as i have done a lot of research!!!

The negative side to putting tubeless would be reduction in the acceleration marginally..

[kk707]

Hi Sahil & Everyone else,

Posting for the first time after becoming a member 3 yrs ago (oops!)

Anyway, I have just booked the 520d and would love to get more insight from you on how the tubeless are working out for you. Specifically, did you get the tires changed before receiving delivery? What price did you get for your RFTs?
A friend of mine is a pretty accomplished rally driver and he also has a Bimmer and he tells me that now with the newer RFTs the ride quality and the chances of damage have been greatly reduced.
Now I'm really confused because have seen posts here from two years ago which virtually convinced me to go with the tubeless.
Oh, also let me know if it has any issues with insurance etc.
Thanks a ton,
Cheers

[sahil.propel]

Hey KK707,
I hope this message clears your doubts somewhat. RFTs are basically tubeless tyres with strengthened sidewalls. The sidewalls of the tyres are made so rigid that even if the tyre get punctured, The sidewalls have the capability to withstand the weight of the car upto a certain extent and hence, not let your wheel touch the ground. Since the technology is such, RFTs are generally harder than normal tubeless tyres. Though they offer a very high degree of safety, they hamper the ride quality to a great extent. Also, on Indian roads, due to various bumps and potholes, when your tyre impacts a pothole, all the force is directly transmitted to your sidewalls. Since the sidewalls are rigid, they donot provide any cushioning effect and do not absorb the shock. Result is that either the sidewall cracks (punctures) during high impacts or small impacts are directly transferred to the car suspension and ultimately to the passengers.

When you go in for a tubeless tyre, the sidewall being soft absorbs pressure to a certain extent. This really enhances the comfort level and ride quality. but they wont give the advantage of driving on a flat tyre. Therefore, if you go in with Tubeless tyres in your bimmer, then a Space Saver Kit is a must.

The newer RFTs offer better ride comfort than the earlier ones, but they compromise on the life of the sidewalls during flat tyres. E.g if a normal RFT gives you 150kms on a flat tyre, the softer ones would give just about 70-80kms.

I had tyre bursts on 3 occasions on my RFTs in 1 year of ownership of my 520. Finally changed to tubeless and I am a very happy man now.

Hope it helped. Do post for any clarification or if I stated something incorrectly.

[rajeshchand]

I am another guy who dumped RFTs on my X1 after 15k kms on it of rough ride and a tyre cut. Had a cut inside of the tyre which bulged the tyre from one side, if there is a cut in your tyre that do not give you any mileage after that other than the option of changing the tyre, the same is for tubeless too so where is the benefit of having an RFT other than handling punctures. Switched over to Yoko S Drive and there is a huge difference in ride handling and suspension quality. The only difference that i find is that on RFTs the braking used to be much stiffer and faster while on tubeless the braking is much softer and delayed, but then that is because of the cushioning offered by sidewalls. RFTs on Indian roads can only handle punctures and not the craters, craters are better handled by tubeless.

[kk707]

Originally Posted by rajeshchand

The only difference that i find is that on RFTs the braking used to be much stiffer and faster while on tubeless the braking is much softer and delayed, but then that is because of the cushioning offered by sidewalls.

Rajesh, could this also be because you have a X1, which, being a SUV, would have softer breaking than a sedan (as I've experienced with the Fortuner)

Originally Posted by sahil.propel

The newer RFTs offer better ride comfort than the earlier ones, but they compromise on the life of the sidewalls during flat tyres. E.g if a normal RFT gives you 150kms on a flat tyre, the softer ones would give just about 70-80kms.

I had tyre bursts on 3 occasions on my RFTs in 1 year of ownership of my 520. Finally changed to tubeless and I am a very happy man now.

a. Sahil, in your case, did you have to replace the tires altogether i.e. were all three tire punctures on the sidewalls or in the tread?

b. How's the resale on the RFTs (new ones)?

I would also like to know how your experience has been with the Pirelli P7s? Anyone else with their experience of alternate tires?

Thanks in advance!

[sahil.propel]

Originally Posted by kk707

Rajesh, could this also be because you have a X1, which, being a SUV, would have softer breaking than a sedan (as I've experienced with the Fortuner)



a. Sahil, in your case, did you have to replace the tires altogether i.e. were all three tire punctures on the sidewalls or in the tread?

b. How's the resale on the RFTs (new ones)?

I would also like to know how your experience has been with the Pirelli P7s? Anyone else with their experience of alternate tires?

Thanks in advance!

a. I had to change my tyres altogether as the burst was on the sidewalls due to impact.

b. Ideally, if u have brand new RFTs (less than 200km) u shd get the full price refund. Otherwise also resale of rfts is pretty good. Old RFTs (50% life) are sold for about 7000 buks.

My experience with Pirelli P7 has been pretty good so far. You can see my earlier posts for details about my experience with P7.

[kk707]

Thanks Sahil.

Now I begin my research for the perfect tires for my requirements.

Here's the features that interest me:
1. Comfort - my wife (& soon to arrive child) will be sitting in the back a lot, so I need to know if there is a significant improvement in comfort level between 225 and 235 width.
2. Longevity
3. Price - of course the P7s you've suggested are more expensive than the other 225s
4. Warranty
5. Looks - it must make your car look real sexy.

I guess all the tires in this range have got a solid speed ratings, so that doesn't feature.

What were the other tires in the consideration set?

[sahil.propel]

Originally Posted by kk707

Thanks Sahil.

Now I begin my research for the perfect tires for my requirements.

Here's the features that interest me:
1. Comfort - my wife (& soon to arrive child) will be sitting in the back a lot, so I need to know if there is a significant improvement in comfort level between 225 and 235 width.
2. Longevity
3. Price - of course the P7s you've suggested are more expensive than the other 225s
4. Warranty
5. Looks - it must make your car look real sexy.

I guess all the tires in this range have got a solid speed ratings, so that doesn't feature.

What were the other tires in the consideration set?

1. Comfort - 235 would definitely offer more comfort. Also, since you are shifting from RFTs to tubeless, you should get 235,
2. Longevity - Theirs a lot of controversy about this topic. Come people say that the tread on RFTs last longer and some say that on tubeless. But in any case tubeless should give you upwards of 40k so that is pretty good.
3. Price. The price for Pirelli P7 was 17k per tyre. But in cities like Delhi and Bangalore it should be cheaper. Other tyres that you should look at are Michelin Primacy. I am not a big fan of Bridgestone but if you like them, you could check them out. Continentals dont seem to be in the same league as Michelin and Pirelli.
4. Warranty - Generally all these tyres will come with a 3 yr manufacturers warranty. Please stay away from Grey Market tyres and get a proper bill. Get the warranty period mentioned on your bill
5. Looks - Most of these tyres would not have a very sporty tread. Though they look big and solid. If you want a sporty tread, you'll have to go in with companies like Kumho and then compromise a little bit on sound and comfort.

Anyways, keep me updated and do post the price that you have been quoted for the P7s (even if you donot get them installed). I think I have been overcharged due to the monopoly of 1 dealer in my city.

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by kk707

Thanks Sahil.

Now I begin my research for the perfect tires for my requirements.

Here's the features that interest me:
1. Comfort - my wife (& soon to arrive child) will be sitting in the back a lot, so I need to know if there is a significant improvement in comfort level between 225 and 235 width.
2. Longevity
3. Price - of course the P7s you've suggested are more expensive than the other 225s
4. Warranty
5. Looks - it must make your car look real sexy.

I guess all the tires in this range have got a solid speed ratings, so that doesn't feature.

What were the other tires in the consideration set?

To be frank, I don't see the F10 or F30 needing tubeless tyres. The suspension has been very well sorted from the older E series cars when it comes to ride comfort. But if you still do want tubeless, its certainly not a bad choice.

I switched to Michelin PS3s on my 320D, only because the ride was just too hard with the stock RFTs.

With your 520d, the tyre size is very uncommon, so you are not going to be a large choice of tyres. The Pirelli Cinturato P7 is available, which is a pretty good tyre. Seems you will have to take that unless you can find other options.

Stick to 225, I don't see 235 giving you any significant increase in comfort, if anything the larger sidewalls of 235/55 compared to 225/55 will just increase bodyroll. 245/50 would be the right upsize but as far as I know there is nothing in that size.

As for warranty, I've really not seen any warranty get honored, so to me it does not make a difference even if grey market as long as the tyre is not too old.

Do keep in mind that with tubeless you do have to be more careful, since if you do get a puncture you may be stranded unlike the run flats where you can continue for some distance.

[sahil.propel]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

To be frank, I don't see the F10 or F30 needing tubeless tyres. The suspension has been very well sorted from the older E series cars when it comes to ride comfort. But if you still do want tubeless, its certainly not a bad choice.


As for warranty, I've really not seen any warranty get honored, so to me it does not make a difference even if grey market as long as the tyre is not too old.

Do keep in mind that with tubeless you do have to be more careful, since if you do get a puncture you may be stranded unlike the run flats where you can continue for some distance.

The suspension of 5 series is indeed good. But still its a bit hard if you are looking for comfort rather than sporty character. This will change with Tubeless.

Warranty for tyres does get honoured but you have to be persistent enough with the company and your problem should lie within the terms of warranty.

Also, please dont forget to buy a space saver kit if you are going in for a tubeless as you would need the spare tyre in case of any emergency.

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by sahil.propel

The suspension of 5 series is indeed good. But still its a bit hard if you are looking for comfort rather than sporty character. This will change with Tubeless.

Warranty for tyres does get honoured but you have to be persistent enough with the company and your problem should lie within the terms of warranty.

Also, please dont forget to buy a space saver kit if you are going in for a tubeless as you would need the spare tyre in case of any emergency.

Agreed but if you want comfort over sportiness the E class is for you

But yes it does improve and is almost up to E class levels of comfort in some situations.

I'm yet to see warranty on any tyre like Michelin or Yoko get honored. At most they will give you a goodwill discount on a new tyre.

[kk707]

Originally Posted by sahil.propel

Also, please dont forget to buy a space saver kit if you are going in for a tubeless as you would need the spare tyre in case of any emergency.

will definitely get one... Sahil, the cost is 1-2k cheaper (per tire) than what you got.
Will def keep the space saver in mind. How do you secure the tire in the boot? Bungee chord?

Originally Posted by akshay1234

Agreed but if you want comfort over sportiness the E class is for you

Akshay, my dad has the E and while its really comfortable, its a little old school, i.e. bland for my taste.
I'm still so torn because its a basic trade off between personal wants and greater responsibility (i.e. family). I think that the two main issues I was against RFTs were:
a. Comfort vs. Performance... if if the difference isnt significant, it doesnt matter
b. Annoyance factor - the constant reports of tire blowouts kinda freaked me out

Anyway, thanks to both of you for your really helpful comments.

On a separate note (I don't know if this warrants a new thread, Mods, if so pls more there) this insurance headache also has gotten me... after speaking to different agents here are my options -
a. Tata AIG - 90.5k including RTI, 0% dep on plastics and rubbers including consumables, key replacement
b. ICICI Lombard Pearl Bronze plan (being offered by BMW): 87k, no RTI, 0% dep not including consumables...

Anyone care to shed some light on this?

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by kk707

Akshay, my dad has the E and while its really comfortable, its a little old school, i.e. bland for my taste.
I'm still so torn because its a basic trade off between personal wants and greater responsibility (i.e. family). I think that the two main issues I was against RFTs were:
a. Comfort vs. Performance... if if the difference isnt significant, it doesnt matter
b. Annoyance factor - the constant reports of tire blowouts kinda freaked me out

Anyway, thanks to both of you for your really helpful comments.

On a separate note (I don't know if this warrants a new thread, Mods, if so pls more there) this insurance headache also has gotten me... after speaking to different agents here are my options -
a. Tata AIG - 90.5k including RTI, 0% dep on plastics and rubbers including consumables, key replacement
b. ICICI Lombard Pearl Bronze plan (being offered by BMW): 87k, no RTI, 0% dep not including consumables...

Anyone care to shed some light on this?

You do have to be careful with runflats, but they do not blow out or get cut any more than normal tubeless tyres. If you are confused then just keep the runflats for a while and then decide, say after a year or so. (only because the runflats aren't bad at all on the new Bimmers, and they give you extra convenience.)

If you do keep runflats get BMW secure, it helps if you have to replace any of the tyres. But if you are a careful driver then save your money and get normal 0 dep insurance.

[rajeshchand]

Originally Posted by kk707

Akshay, my dad has the E and while its really comfortable, its a little old school, i.e. bland for my taste.
I'm still so torn because its a basic trade off between personal wants and greater responsibility (i.e. family). I think that the two main issues I was against RFTs were:
a. Comfort vs. Performance... if if the difference isnt significant, it doesnt matter
b. Annoyance factor - the constant reports of tire blowouts kinda freaked me out

Anyway, thanks to both of you for your really helpful comments.

On a separate note (I don't know if this warrants a new thread, Mods, if so pls more there) this insurance headache also has gotten me... after speaking to different agents here are my options -
a. Tata AIG - 90.5k including RTI, 0% dep on plastics and rubbers including consumables, key replacement
b. ICICI Lombard Pearl Bronze plan (being offered by BMW): 87k, no RTI, 0% dep not including consumables...

Anyone care to shed some light on this?

I had shifted from runflats to tubeless after 15k km on my X1, had a tyre bulge on one of the tyres which had a cut inside, though i had insurance i could care less because of all the negative reports on RFTs as well as my own experience. Shifted to yoko tubeless and since then i am happy with it. Everything remains normal except a little extra braking effort required obviously due to sidewalls being on the softer side. Rather it gives a comfortable ride hitherto unknown with RFTs.

Regarding Insurance i would like to ask why it is so costly, i have renewed it with ICICI at 53k and that is the high end plan which includes 0 deps well as RTI, of course i did not renew it through the dealership as they were quoting 84k.