Team-BHP - JK Vectra tyres: Weird Failure

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- - JK Vectra tyres: Weird Failure (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-alloy-wheel-section/92120-jk-vectra-tyres-weird-failure-4.html)

I apologize if i offended anyone with my suggestion. Khoj, we have no reason to pick on SS-T just because he didn't pay enough attention to his tread wear indicators. Please do not consider it an insult if a person brings up a point which in all obviousness hasn't been given its due importance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by khoj (Post 2144026)

Guys before you jump on the wagon and start flaming SS-Traveller do spend some more time on the forum. This will help you realize that SS-T is not only an experienced driver, an avid highway cruncher but also an automotive guru in his own right. His experience about all things automotive is far richer and all encompassing than a majority of us cannot even begin to think of leave aside trying to fathom.

So make an effort to know your fellow memeber first before posting statements that are like Sooraj ko diya dikhana.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller (Post 2139670)

Last evening, the rear right tyre on my Swift ZXi came apart in a weird fashion. It's a JK Vectra 185/70R14 tubeless tyre. No deflation, but the tread peeled off from the casing @60 km/h(and damaged the rear bumper and mudguard core somewhat). It's run 51k km (in 4 years & 10 months), but still had sufficient tread left to allow me to change in the next few weeks. Take a look.

I've seen similar peeling off in retreaded tyres, but this is the first time I've noticed the same in an OE tyre.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaideepshinh (Post 2144520)

we have no reason to pick on SS-T just because he didn't pay enough attention to his tread wear indicators. Please do not consider it an insult if a person brings up a point which in all obviousness hasn't been given its due importance.

Jaideep,

We are all here on the forum to share views and that is always welcome. Infact in one of my posts on this very thread even I have mentioned that 51K on the Vectras is a bit too much for them. The intent of my post was to ensure that everyone pays more attention to what is being posted and then react in an apt manner. See the bold portion of SS-T's opening post in view of which the irrelevance of the bold portions in the response becomes apparent. To be fair one has the benefit of knowing SS-T and being aware of his automotive expertise whereas for most of you he is just another 'Distinguished' bhpian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaideep

Khoj, we have no reason to pick on SS-T just because he didn't pay enough attention to his tread wear indicators.

In my experience, TWI on Indian tyres are a joke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khoj

To be fair one has the benefit of knowing SS-T and being aware of his automotive expertise whereas for most of you he is just another 'Distinguished' bhpian.

SST Zindaabaad!
SST Zindaabaad!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaideepshinh (Post 2143931)

@SS Traveller: ...i suggest you pay more attention to your tread wear indicators next time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sutripta (Post 2142677)

... if SS KNOWS (but can't prove) that the tyre has not been abused, then this failure is not acceptable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RGK (Post 2144033)

Very fortunate that these thing did not happen during highway driving.
1. They tyres are old enough to be replaced even they had some of treads to be driven
2. But at any cost the tread should not come out in this manner - showing the quality of the manufacturing.

Just to put the record straight here - yes, I HAD been keeping a close watch on the wear of the tyres quite closely, and had already made up my mind to change them as soon as I could find a little free time to do it. Since the car stays within city limits, stays under the speed limit and the rainy season is long gone (though it did rain in Delhi yesterday afternoon), I was letting the car run anyway, till I found a day to take off; but before that, this happened. BTW, the car is on 4 tyres right now, which I propose to rectify on Saturday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by azeemhafiz (Post 2143852)

Sorry to hear about the incident, but glad that everyone was safe

Much has been said about the stock tires of Swift. I had a similar experience with my stock tires on the swift, but bear in mind the profile was different (165/80 R14) being a Vxi. After i repeatedly informed about the problem to my dealer, the blatantly blamed it on Maruti and asked me to upsize the tires. One even had the audacity to blame my driving style (That may have had some doing, i must admit).

After much thought, i upgraded the tires and alloys to 195/60 R 15 (Yoko's) and it has been so far the best money i have spend on the car so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by souravc (Post 2144060)

I had a very similar experience a year back with my Swift Zxi's JK Tyre OEM tubeless..it had done 40-41K over a period 3 years and the rear left tyre burst while I was doing around 40 kmph . When I had a look at the tyre , there was clear indication of shearing , the fibres peeling off - very scary !

Quote:

Originally Posted by bj96 (Post 2144101)

Similar experience with JK on my WagonR too. The tire was kept as spare, still it managed to disintegrate itself. Details in this post http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1945992-post32.html

Thanks for sharing. Hope JK would sit up and take notice. Mine does not appear to be a one-off case here, and I would henceforth speak with my wallet about JK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sen2009 (Post 2144277)

All technical discussions apart, this is just Genuine Team-Bhp stuff!
You have seriously peeled off the rubber off the tyre.
Sole ukhar gaya bhichari swift ka!

Soleless car because of soulless tyre? :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuel_addict (Post 2144303)

I'm shocked to see the way the tyre has got ripped off. Glad that no one was hurt and the damage to the car is under control.

I own a Swift ZXi that is also 4.5 years old and runs on the stock 185/70/R14 JK tyres. Have covered only 24K km though. This incident makes me a bit uncomfortable. One of my 5 tyres has already been replaced by a tube as multiple punctures rendered it un-repairable. That tyre is now the spare tyre.

While JK tyres have never had a good reputation, this kind of failure is unacceptable. Maruti might never learn from their mistakes. Its best to change the stock tyres when you buy any Maruti car. On the brighter side, the fact that the tyre lasted 51K km is creditable. I have seen some tyres go bad within 30K km too.

Bridgestones on my previous car, an Accent Viva CRDi, had lasted 55k km despite the 19 kg-m of torque. I've run 72k km on a previous Indica DLS. So 51k km is par for the course as far as my driving style goes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by petroguzzler (Post 2144371)

On the brighter side, SS, your tire after peeling off looks like F1 Racing tires without grooves. :uncontrol

LOL...

Quote:

Originally Posted by carboy (Post 2144384)

Not agreeing or disagreeing about JK quality, but repution wise, they seem to be doing well.
J.D.Power and Associates - Press Release

So, I am not sure how or what Maruti should learn?

Maybe JD Power ought to take notice, or else their survey methodology is flawed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaideepshinh (Post 2144520)

No offence taken Jaideep. I was aware of the wear, but was forced to defer the change by a couple of weeks. However, I was certainly not expecting this to happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by khoj (Post 2144026)

...realize that SS-T is not only an experienced driver, an avid highway cruncher but also an automotive guru in his own right. His experience about all things automotive is far richer and all encompassing than a majority of us cannot even begin to think of leave aside trying to fathom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by khoj (Post 2144582)

To be fair one has the benefit of knowing SS-T and being aware of his automotive expertise whereas for most of you he is just another 'Distinguished' bhpian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrous (Post 2144811)

SST Zindaabaad!
SST Zindaabaad!

Yeh kya ho raha hai??? I have a problem with a tyre, and I end up getting an inflation effort on my ego? Thanks, khoj & nitrous... but don't expect a party for this! :uncontrol

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller (Post 2145263)

Maybe JD Power ought to take notice, or else their survey methodology is flawed.

Why do you say their survey methodology is flawed?
Statistical surveys are far superior to posts on forums.

I am not saying JK makes good tyres. I am just saying that there is statistical evidence to prove that people are very satisfied with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by carboy (Post 2145274)

Why do you say their survey methodology is flawed?
Statistical surveys are far superior to posts on forums.

I would not enter into an argument here, carboy, save to point to a link here. I am entitled to my own opinion of JK tyres, irrespective of any surveys and statistics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller (Post 2145342)

I would not enter into an argument here, carboy, save to point to a link here. I am entitled to my own opinion of JK tyres, irrespective of any surveys and statistics.

First line from the link

Quote:

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments, and the tendency of people to disparage statistics that do not support their positions.

Just kidding - I am also not trying to get into an argument here. But just wanted to say that statistical surveys are very powerful tools & fantastic predictors of mass population by sampling just a very small percentage of the population.

On the flip side however, surveys can be manipulated very easily. There was a great episode of Yes, Prime Minister where Humphrey teaches Bernard how to design a survey which gives the results you want.

[quote=SS-Traveller;2139670]Last evening, the rear right tyre on my Swift ZXi came apart in a weird fashion. It's a JK Vectra 185/70R14 tubeless tyre. No deflation, but the tread peeled off from the casing @60 km/h(and damaged the rear bumper and mudguard core somewhat). It's run 51k km (in 4 years & 10 months), but still had sufficient tread left to allow me to change in the next few weeks. Take a look.

Looking at your treads i might hazard a guess that you were running the tyres below the rated pressure (The tread shows more wear on the edges than in the centre- Elementyree my dear Watson). Either that or there would have been a leak in the tyre. Anyway seems like you had a close shave. That tyre looks scalped! Cheers!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller (Post 2145263)

but don't expect a party for this! :uncontrol

buss kya! abhi party ke liye yehi karna reh gya hai??

Chaloo let it be. Now tell us what do you intend to put on the rims same size or are you going to upsize to 15"

BTW I checked prices for the OE size this noon over the phone and was shocked when I was given quotes of 3600 for Goodyear Assurance and Yokohama A300?? and 4800 for Michelin XM1+ :eek:

Quote:

Originally Posted by carboy (Post 2145355)

Just kidding - I am also not trying to get into an argument here.

Glad about that. Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boohooper (Post 2145415)

Looking at your treads i might hazard a guess that you were running the tyres below the rated pressure (The tread shows more wear on the edges than in the centre- Elementyree my dear Watson).

@boohooper: Sheer Luck Holmes, I presume? Guessing your way to solving elementary riddles...

There's a reason why the edges are more worn than the centre, and a lot of early-model (type 1) Swift owners are aware of it - so I shall not elaborate about it. However, your guess is totally off the mark.

Quote:

Originally Posted by khoj (Post 2145445)

I know - tyre prices have shot up close to 30% in the last few months.

No, I'm sticking to OE rims and OE size tyres. No point in upgrading as far as my usage pattern goes. Shall update about the change after Saturday. Let's see what I get in the market.

Party ke liye kuchh bhi karega! Ask any politician! ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller (Post 2145477)

There's a reason why the edges are more worn than the centre, and a lot of early-model (type 1) Swift owners are aware of it - so I shall not elaborate about it.

Do tell, I have no idea regarding this problem though I will take a closer look at the rubber in the morning. My zxi is a '08 model so I believe it is a type1, type II being the one with the K series engine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by khoj (Post 2145515)

Type 2 was the Swift with minor facelifts, including transparent taillamps and the rear bumper having a ridge at a higher level. 2008 is a type 2 Swift AFAIK.

The first pic is a Type 1 Swift

JK Vectra tyres: Weird Failure-marutiswiftvxiabs.jpg

The difference in rear bumper and taillamps is obvious in the type 2 Swift.

JK Vectra tyres: Weird Failure-aa6aa662d2cb502d61c2cd9798a5grande.jpg

The K-series 1.2 Swift is considered the type 3 Swift.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller (Post 2145734)

Type 2 was the Swift with minor facelifts, including transparent taillamps and the rear bumper having a ridge at a higher level. 2008 is a type 2 Swift AFAIK.

I have a type 1. I knew about the lamps differnce, but not the other. Why exactly do the egdes wear out more than the centre in this?

^ Type 1 Swifts have a tendency to scrub out the outer edges of the rear tyres. Have heard of this complaint from multiple owners. Does not happen to Type 2 Swifts. Only way to manage it is to carry out frequent rotations and to flip the tyres on the rim after 25-30k km, to put the worn edges on the inside of the rim. Tried everything else, doesn't help.

I would strongly suggest you to register a compliant with Maruti Suzuki & also with JK. If possible with the consumer court too.

You may not want to pursue the case for monetary benefits but if these things are not recorded by the company they will have the false impression that their product is the best. And if the same happens to anyone else they would dismiss it as a one-off case.