[aveoman19]

Originally Posted by ajay99

[/i][/b]

I am sorry to say that you are making a wrong inference here.You are correct that an Esteem cost Rs.5lakhs and a Cielo Rs.7lakhs.The hot hatch of that period(95-98)Maruti Zen cost around 3.75lakhs.But you should consider the fact that the actual value of INR(rupee) has depreciated a lot since then.So in actual PPP(purchasing power parity) terms similar cars are available at much lesser prices. Seven lakhs in 1996 must be worth atleast 28 lakhs now.You can get a BMW X1 or Q3 (entry level) for that sum.Now please think whether it is better or worse for you in terms of car prices

You are right Sir. The time has changed for the better. Purchasing Power Parity is something which I didn't know of, as good as you do. Now, I stand corrected and thank you for the same.

[sparsh]

I do remember my uncle buying a chetak for around 8k in 1986 that too after booking 3 years earlier. In fact there was a huge demand for the cars namely padmini and amby and they did command a huge premium in the black market. I still feel amby as the ultimate family given it can easily accommodate 7 people easily and to top it you have the monstrous boot. i learnt my driving on a 1964 amby and trust me its a different experience. After driving an amby you can pretty much drive/handle any car on the planet.

[harit]

Originally Posted by sparsh

I do remember my uncle buying a chetak for around 8k in 1986 that too after booking 3 years earlier. In fact there was a huge demand for the cars namely padmini and amby and they did command a huge premium in the black market. I still feel amby as the ultimate family given it can easily accommodate 7 people easily and to top it you have the monstrous boot. i learnt my driving on a 1964 amby and trust me its a different experience. After driving an amby you can pretty much drive/handle any car on the planet.

As I know for sure, the Bajaj Chetak initially in the 1980's was available when payment was made in foreign exchange. I know of two such cases.
The Padmini was booked on a certain day and dekivered after approx. 7 years. When you went to collect your new car, you immediately booked the next one, and sold the old one at the price of the new car. Remember that in the meanwhile the original sticker price of the Premier went up, and you got premium for a 7 year old car.
The Amby may have been the ultimate INDIAN family car, after driving two Ambys you felt that you have driven two different cars, not even the gear change was consistant. The slot for the third gear was tricky and you could often end in reverse. Other times reverse would not engage. Remember, much fewer ladies drove an Amby, and they would rather leave it alone even now. Indian policy makers and car manufacturers really selected thrash for us in India, maybe it was not thrash when selected, but technology was never upgraded. It may have been better to build a Ford Model T right up to the 1980's

Cheers harit

[karlosdeville]

Originally Posted by harit

The Amby may have been the ultimate INDIAN family car, after driving two Ambys you felt that you have driven two different cars, not even the gear change was consistant. The slot for the third gear was tricky and you could often end in reverse. Other times reverse would not engage.

Shifting to third is always tricky, but how does one engange reverse? Third is up, reverse is down - possibly 4th and reverse could interfere.

OT - shifting quality (and clutch action) on the Amby is really awful, the Fiat is indeed a 'Delight' in comparison. Stiff upper lip English versus charismatic Italians

[harit]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

Shifting to third is always tricky, but how does one engange reverse? Third is up, reverse is down - possibly 4th and reverse could interfere.

OT - shifting quality (and clutch action) on the Amby is really awful, the Fiat is indeed a 'Delight' in comparison. Stiff upper lip English versus charismatic Italians

Oops, even after driving the Amby for almost 30 years, I forgot that the Amby has a fourth gear. Yes, fourth would go into reverse, and often the otherway round.

Cheers harit

[Prabal]

Originally Posted by harit

As I know for sure, the Bajaj Chetak initially in the 1980's was available when payment was made in foreign exchange.

I think foreign exchange only helped you get a Chetak immediately. Otherwise one had to book and wait for the kids to grow up a bit! And, Chetaks delivered against foreign currency had turn-indicator lights (little square ones IIRC, on both sides of the headlight on the steering handle and on either cowl/cover at the back), while the stepney was mounted at a slant (more raked than the Lambretta's) instead of vertically up. Looked... well, rakish!!

Originally Posted by harit

The Padmini was booked on a certain day and dekivered after approx. 7 years. When you went to collect your new car, you immediately booked the next one, and sold the old one at the price of the new car. Remember that in the meanwhile the original sticker price of the Premier went up, and you got premium for a 7 year old car.

That's right. My father got his Fiat 1100D seven years after booking one. In 1970 or '71 (keep getting confused - gotta ask my elder brother; he grew up earlier and has been smarter ever since) it cost him around 19 thousand (through the Army CSD canteen). The price in the civilian market might have been 500-1000 bucks more, maybe. He sold it in 1974 or 75 (I had started developing an interest in watching other things in bloom then, not the year!) to a used-car dealer for 22.5 k with less than 20,000 on the odometer. The dealer probably would've made a profit of at least 1000-1500 bucks further. So, after four years of use, a very well-maintained Fiat could fetch you a profit of at least 5000 bucks in those days. I think a new Padmini was retailing for around 25 k then, so yes, one could upgrade every few years at no extra cost, if one indulged in cleverly-staggered bookings. The smart ones also bought land with such windfalls. Today, some of them drive new Bentleys!

Around the same time our '52 Hillman Minx was getting offers of Rs. 3-4000, so she was retained. As were the old Amby and Fiat Elegant. One Merc (the Fintail) had been sold two years ealier for around 45k, which funded a 2-month driving vacation (in a VW Microbus Westfalia - a Ford Transit on another occasion, few years later, but that's another story) for four of us through Europe and left enough money for my mother to splurge on perfumes wherever we stopped, while dad did the one thing that men in our family are born to do - eat and drink (Vichy water of course) like there maybe no tomorrow. My brother and I were keen students to his teaching us the hedonistic pleasures, and we practise it to perfection till date! Anyway, that merc had cost him 20 odd Ks landed in 1963. A 115 that he bought in '69 cost him around 40k landed (with freight and duties). Fetched 90k in 1980! Real estate was still cheaper, waiting to unleash it's fury about a decade n half later! And how! Earlier you could sell your automobile and buy property of choice. Today you do the reverse!

Originally Posted by harit

Remember, much fewer ladies drove an Amby, and they would rather leave it alone even now.

But there was something very attractive about a lady who drove an Amby. Like those that drive an SUV now. Yes, most of the ladies we knew preferred to own and drive Fiats themselves, an occasional one would be seen driving a Herald (and that looked nice too). Like amongst the scooters, ladies preferred the Vespa over a Lambretta (probably since they'd managed to make a lamb of their men already anyway!). Mom had a Vespa, while dad always only used a Lambretta (amongst scooters). Surprisingly, though mom had asked for a Fiat on her first wedding anniversary from dad (the Elegant), in the subsequent years she preferred driving the Amby. Bit of a dichotomy there. Well, that's one of our family traits as well!

Originally Posted by harit

It may have been better to build a Ford Model T right up to the 1980's

Would've been fun to watch Indians adapting from the arrangement of the pedals in a Model T to the ABC in regular cars, in the 1980s! Maybe, a few olympic-grade sprinters could have been created right on our streets in the process! An opportunity lost!

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

OT - shifting quality (and clutch action) on the Amby is really awful, the Fiat is indeed a 'Delight' in comparison. Stiff upper lip English versus charismatic Italians

One area where the bulky Amby scored big-time over the Fiat was the steering. The rack-and-pinion steering endowed it with a surprisingly tighter turning radius than that managed by the smaller Fiat's worm-and-roller 'box! It also gave a better feedback. The only problem was when the system wore out, it never felt good again with our 'jugaad' repairs, unless the components were replaced with new ones. Unfortunately the woefully falling standards of fettling/machining with growing 'indigenisation' had also pulled the feeling of the new ones down.

[Bulldogji]

1937 Dodge tourer Rs 3,000, 1946 Rolls Royce Rs 74,000, 1954 Dodge sedan Rs 14,000, 1974 Ambassador Rs 18,000, 1980 Ambassador Rs 50,000, 1982 Ambassador Rs 80,000,1986 soft top Maruti Gypsy Rs 1,06,000, 1989 Contessa with Isuzu engine, Rs 1,08,000, 1990 Ambassador with the Isuzu petrol engine, Rs 1, 55, 000. In the seventies, if you bought a Hindustan truck, you were offered an Ambassador without being on the wait list. Same when you bought a Premier ( Dodge) truck, a fiat , without waiting for four years. Of course the trucks were with petrol driven engines

Parts of my post are off topic, Ambassadors, Contessas and Gypsies hopefully will not be termed CLASSICS in my life time.

[Kal.Wiz.]

My father got his Bajaj 150 for 3400/- in 1970 after 7 yr wait in Govt. Quota. I bought my Bajaj 150 for 10000/- + 3500/-Premium in 1984. my first Gypsy cost me 176000/- in 1989 which I sold for 125000/- 6 yrs & 1.2k km later. The Second Gypsy in 1995 Cost 345000/- & sold at 110000/- 6 yrs & 1.3k km later. My fusion cost me 745000/- in 2008 & I am being offered 200000 now

Just goes to show how availability of vehicles has resulted in widening gap between purchase & resale values.

[ajay99]

Originally Posted by Bulldogji

1937 Dodge tourer Rs 3,000, 1946 Rolls Royce Rs 74,000, 1954 Dodge sedan Rs 14,000, 1974 Ambassador Rs 18,000, 1980 Ambassador Rs 50,000, 1982 Ambassador Rs 80,000,1986 soft top Maruti Gypsy Rs 1,06,000, 1989 Contessa with Isuzu engine, Rs 1,08,000, 1990 Ambassador with the Isuzu petrol engine, Rs 1, 55, 000. In the seventies, if you bought a Hindustan truck, you were offered an Ambassador without being on the wait list. Same when you bought a Premier ( Dodge) truck, a fiat , without waiting for four years. Of course the trucks were with petrol driven engines

Parts of my post are off topic, Ambassadors, Contessas and Gypsies hopefully will not be termed CLASSICS in my life time.

Sir,
I think the cost price mentioned for the 1989 Contessa classic is not correct. In 1989 a Maruti 800(SB308) deluxe Cost around 130000/- and also the ambassador was always cheaper than the Contessa.An HM contessa with BMC petrol engine cost around Rs.90000/- in 1984 itself

[Bulldogji]

Originally Posted by ajay99

Sir,
I think the cost price mentioned for the 1989 Contessa classic is not correct. In 1989 a Maruti 800(SB308) deluxe Cost around 130000/- and also the ambassador was always cheaper than the Contessa.An HM contessa with BMC petrol engine cost around Rs.90000/- in 1984 itself

Apologies, it was a typo. The contessa was bought in 1986 and not 1989 at that price. All the other dates and prices are correct, invoices still in files.

[jeepster_chd]

Originally Posted by harit

As I know for sure, the Bajaj Chetak initially in the 1980's was available when payment was made in foreign exchange. I know of two such cases.

Harit sir, the foreign exchange point is very valid. My dad had booked a Bajaj Chetak in 1986 and it was delivered to us in 1987 because we had made half of the payment in foreign currency otherwise waiting period was for few years. I remember I was around 6 at that time and a Chetak would cost anywhere between 11k to 12k. We had a relative living in Dubai, my dad got Dirhams for 5k INR and booked the Chetak scooter. We lived in Nangal (Bhakhra Dam, Punjab) at that time and there was no Bajaj dealership in our town. My dad came to Chandigarh in a bus (3 to 4 hrs drive during those times) to book the scooter with Hind Motors. And after full one year we got the latter that your booking has matured. It was such a big occasion that me, my dad, mum and an uncle came to Chandigarh in a roadways bus to take delivery. As my dad didn't new how to ride the scooter at that time, my uncle drove it from Chandigarh to Nangal.
Feeling nostalgic!

Cheers..Prashant

[karlosdeville]

The September issue of Autocar India (anniversary issue) carries some great stories including a feature with old Indian ads.

Some gems include

• Harley Davidson 'Servi-car' (phatphatiya) for Rs. 5,595 (without Tonga body)
• Shell petrol in 1916 was 94 paise a litre
• deDion Boutons (probably from the early 1920s) from 17,000 to 23,000)
• 1911 Darracq 'Coronation model' for Rs. 4,500 (discounted from Rs. 6,000). Special offer included free Chaueffer's uniform worth 4 pounds 4 shillings
• 1926 Fiats ranging from Rs. 4,850 to Rs. 22,000 (with an impressive list of local records listed)
• Mid 1950s Fiats - 500 from Rs. 5,250, 1100 from Rs. 8,975, 500 Delivery van from Rs.4,975
• 1947/48 Hindustan 10 - Rs. 7,700 (fixed head) to Rs. 7,850 (sliding head)
• 1948 Studebaker Champion - Rs. 11,100 (deLuxe) and Rs. 11,500 (Regal deLuxe)

[Bulldogji]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

The September issue of Autocar India (anniversary issue) carries some great stories including a feature with old Indian ads.

Some gems include

• Shell petrol in 1916 was 94 paise a litre

Karl,

I remember that the cost of petrol in Bombay was 75 paise per litre in 1972, it touched a rupee in 1973, around november, and we were all told by our parents to use public transport as petrol had become ridiculously expensive.

I wonder therefore, was it really 94 paise a litre in 1916? or is it a typo?

Another point, upto the late sixties, early seventies, petrol was sold by the gallon, not litre.

[karlosdeville]

Originally Posted by Bulldogji

Karl,

I remember that the cost of petrol in Bombay was 75 paise per litre in 1972, it touched a rupee in 1973, around november, and we were all told by our parents to use public transport as petrol had become ridiculously expensive.

I wonder therefore, was it really 94 paise a litre in 1916? or is it a typo?

Another point, upto the late sixties, early seventies, petrol was sold by the gallon, not litre.

Thank you Bulldogji.

I merely paraphrased the article as it appeared. Here it is, courtesy Manvendra Barwani and Autocar India September 2013 issue.

[travancore]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

Thank you Bulldogji.

I merely paraphrased the article as it appeared. Here it is, courtesy Manvendra Barwani and Autocar India September 2013 issue.

Attachment 1132241

The way this notice is worded and the price may have been influenced by constraints of war (WW I). The year obviously is 1916, in the 'midst' of the Great War.