[drsk]

Originally Posted by sankar009

The same car is seen advertised in 2 more locations.
https://www.olx.in/item/mercedes-ben...iid-1598874335

https://www.olx.in/item/mercedes-ben...iid-1599428169

All 3 links are not working. Looks like this got a new home already!

[Pravin Kumar KR]

This car has been quoted 2 Cr on a Facebook page

Originally Posted by the.shivaraj

A rare manual classic Ferrari for sale. http://https://www.instagram.com/p/C...d=4phnltj80hd9

Attachment 2059043

Attachment 2059044

[akshays]

Hi, based in Bangalore, I am looking to purchase any of the earlier W series on well kept condition. Do PM me if you are aware of any on sale currently.

[Screwdriva]

Originally Posted by sankar009

The same car is seen advertised in 2 more locations.
https://www.olx.in/item/mercedes-ben...iid-1598874335

https://www.olx.in/item/mercedes-ben...iid-1599428169

I feel bad for whoever buys that car. The Self Leveling suspension is a great feature but the replacement struts are no longer available, leaving the owner with no way to repair the system when they fail.

I speak from experience as I own a W123 300D with SLS and fortunately, replaced both struts just before they went out of stock (and have a spare). Now forums are littered with people stuck with no access to the parts!

[gt_mustang]

Originally Posted by ajay99

https://www.olx.in/item/1965-oldsmob...175420/gallery

1965 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 2door Convertible V8 Super Rocket Vintage
1965 - 50000 Km
₹ 32,00,000


Attachment 1856394

does anyone know more about this car

[JTM]

Rare "Iron Pig" 1973 FJ55 Toyota LandCruiser for sale.



https://www.olx.in/en/item/rare-land...iid-1612376627

[JTM]

1956 Dodge Kingsway
Asking Price: Rs. 13.75 Lakhs









Link to ad

I believe it is the same Kingsway mentioned in this (Restoring 1956 Dodge Kingsway) thread.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Screwdriva

I feel bad for whoever buys that car. The Self Leveling suspension is a great feature but the replacement struts are no longer available, leaving the owner with no way to repair the system when they fail.

I speak from experience as I own a W123 300D with SLS and fortunately, replaced both struts just before they went out of stock (and have a spare). Now forums are littered with people stuck with no access to the parts!

The struts rarely have problems, you must have been unlucky.

Parts availability has become a problem, but I still see plenty of stuff on Ebay and the likes. Joining a good W123 club in Europe will help tremendously.

Also, lots of this stuff can be overhauled by any competent well equipped machine shop, specialising in hydraulics.

Might be more difficult from India though.

This is a very good source for technical articles (and parts)

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...Suspension.htm

Jeroen

[Screwdriva]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

The struts rarely have problems, you must have been unlucky.

The hydraulic rams are not immortal and do leak. They can be rebuilt in several cases. There are loads of posts from owners looking for replacements for their W123 wagons, which also also NLA. It's a shame that no replacement option exists. Fortunately, I restored my W123 just before parts supply began to drop so it should last for a couple decades

Fortunately, Mercedes has launched a demand based request tool to remanufacture NLA parts if we register interest. Three simple steps:

1) Click this link: https://partssearch.mercedes-benz-cl...m/parts/demand

2) Enter your part number. For example, enter A1158350207 for the W115 heater blower motor

3) Hit submit

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Screwdriva

Fortunately, Mercedes has launched a demand based request tool to remanufacture NLA parts if we register interest. Three simple steps:

I would not hold my breath for the first new W123 part to come out there.

There is a fundamental problem with W123 and it stems from the ownership mind set. I am not saying it is wrong, but W123 owners are cheap! It is actually not me who came up with that. As you might recall a couple of years I participated in the Guinness Book of world record attempt to bring the most W123 on the road. Earlier the former German record had been broken by the Dutch and the Germans were hell bent for getting it back.

Obviously, I was there at both attempts, because it is good fun:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/inter...ml#post4414976 (Drive: From Netherlands to Germany for the longest Mercedes W123 parade)

I had long conversation with various members of the German W123 club and we discussed the parts availability. The problem is this: The W123 is an extremely robust car. You do need to attend to rust, but other than that it is utterly indestructable. It is also made in vast numbers. Consequently it has become a very popular low cost classic car. It needs very little maintenance, it will keep going, and the minimum of maintenance can be done by anybody who knows the difference between a hammer and a screwdriver.

Many of the W123 owners are simply not interested in maintaining or restoring their cars to a high standard. They just enjoy the ownership of a classic phenomena at unbelievable low cost. Not much breaks anyway, what does break can often be repaired, or can be found at any number of second specialist across Europe.

Your typical W123 owner is simply not interested in new genuine Mercedes parts. He/she will keep their W123 going with absolute minimum cost. So a very different kind of classic car owner ship than with most brands.

Even today, you can pick up a decent W123 for just a few thousands Euro’s. My son had a W123 that cost him Euro 900. My bicycle costs double that!!

There is a huge aftermarket that caters for many classic Mercedes models, but not the W123. It is not just about demand, it is about what the average owner is willing to pay for a part. And the average W123 owner does not want to part with any money. He/She would rather just drive on with a wonky part, a leaky window etc.

W123s are actually quite complex cars to restore properly. Specials like Mark Cosovich in the UK will charge you anywhere upwards of UKP 35.000,-- just for a restored regular saloon. (e.g. like mine)

But there are few takers for that sort of money. That sort of money will also get you a proper restored TR6 and many others, that are far more popular.

My W123 is near concour state. And it is insured accordingly. But if I ever have to sell it, there will be no takers. Very few people are willing to spend any money on a W123.

I know just about all W123 specialist in Europe and they will all tell you the same. W123 maintenance and repair is about doing things as cheaply as possible. You would be really hard pressed to find a handful of concours state W123 in Europe. Just about any other classic, you will find dozens, if not hundreds.

It is just a very different mindset. Again, it is not about what is right or wrong, or better or worse. But by and large the vast majority of W123 owners enjoy their cars in a somewhat different way than most classic car owners. And that results in there being no aftermarket spare parts supply.

So it seems that what sets the W123 apart; low cost, ultra reliability and durability is also its demise!

Glad to see you are getting proper replacement parts and are stocking up on parts. Way to go. Buy all rubber bits that you can find. They are the first to go and for instance restoring a Coupe is really a problem as most of the rubbers have become unavailable.


Jeroen

[Screwdriva]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

W123s are actually quite complex cars to restore properly. Specials like Mark Cosovich in the UK will charge you anywhere upwards of UKP 35.000,-- just for a restored regular saloon. (e.g. like mine)

I cannot tell you how much I agree with your view and sentiment on owners being cheap. Incidentally, I've had my car mechanically restored by Mark @ W123 World in 2017. Let me assure you that he did not charge me anything close to the amount you have shared. That said, he is very fond of painting himself as the all knowing guru of W123s but in reality is just a glorified garage owner drunk on his own self manufactured legend. I believe the phrases "Swansea Svengali" and "Conned by Cosovich" are floating around in the UK.

Back to the W123, my 300D saloon is a bit more complex than most with SLS suspension, aircon, armored undercarriage and a sunroof, all factory. Almost all of these needed attention, which is why I splurged on its restoration. Thanks be to God I did this because now many of the parts installed are NLA, a worrying situation.

It is for this reason alone that I believe that your car and mine will attain higher valuations in the years to come, which should help with part remanufacture. And if you don't believe me, check out this guy who sells our kind of cars in the US, usually gone within a few days of listing for well over USD 40K.

http://www.mercedesmotoring.com

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Screwdriva

Incidentally, I've had my car mechanically restored by Mark @ W123 World in 2017. Let me assure you that he did not charge me anything close to the amount you have shared. That said, he is very fond of painting himself as the all knowing guru of W123s but in reality is just a glorified garage owner drunk on his own self manufactured legend. I believe the phrases "Swansea Svengali" and "Conned by Cosovich" are floating around in the UK.

Wow, you send your car to the UK and back again to India?

The number I mentioned is for a car fully restored by Mark, so the price of the car plus restoration. Yours was probably in pretty good nick to start with.

A good well equipped workshop needs to charge at least UKP 65-75 an hour on labour alone. 400-500 hours of work is nothing! That is before any replacement parts you might need, or specialised equipment.So it really adds up. It is one of the reasons that restoring classic cars in the lower segments is really not economically, unless you do it DIY and don’t charge the hours, or pay the bill and don’t worry about the cost.

I have never met Mark. I did have a bit of a run in with him though. After I posted my thread of the first W123 world record attempt a number of my images appeared on his webpage. I contacted him and initially he did not respond at all. Only after a week or so, after a lot of social media exposure did he take my imagined down. They had two watermarks, my own and the TeamBHP, so claiming, as he did, he was acting in good faith, was just ridiculous.

I have come across a couple of his cars. One was at that first world record attempt. I must admit it looked absolutely fabulous! I have seen a few others and all are really extremely well restored cars.

Recently, there was a bit of a social media outcry on him with respect to a South African W123. This is just on the UK MB forum, but it was all over Facebook as well:

https://forums.mbclub.co.uk/threads/...-world.258190/

I really can’t judge/comment, but it is fair to say there are people who claim to have been conned by Mark and there are people who worship the ground he walks on. One thing is for sure and is undisputed by all: According to Mark there is only one way, Mark’s way and the rest is rubbish!

As I said, I have seen a few of his cars and I was impressed. His book on W123, co-written with famous Classic Car enthusiast Martin Buckley is one of the best.

I have a signed copy!





Enjoy your W123. No matter what, it will last whether it is maintained in an exceptional way or not at all!

Jeroen

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Screwdriva

That said, he is very fond of painting himself as the all knowing guru of W123s but in reality is just a glorified garage owner drunk on his own self manufactured legend. I believe the phrases "Swansea Svengali" and "Conned by Cosovich" are floating around in the UK.

Just noticed, that MB forum link I shared seems to have comments from somebody that could be you?

My W123 is valued at Euro 15,000 and that is top money for a W123 as it is. For that kind of money there are virtually no takers. Mine is pretty basic and only the very simple 2.0L engine, although it is the latest M102 incarnation.

Prices in Western Europe have been pretty stable, if anything, it went down a bit the last 5-7 years now. Coupes and especially the T version make considerable more. Most of the regular W123 in decent condition retail for considerable less than Euro 10.000. You would be hard pressed to find an add for a W123 (not a T version) over 10K Euro. Prices in the UK tend to be quite a bit higher than on mainland Europe. That is, if it pertains to an original factory build right hooker.

Anyway, I don’t have my W123 as an investment, purely as a hobby and an interest I enjoy.

Jeroen

[Screwdriva]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Prices in Western Europe have been pretty stable, if anything, it went down a bit the last 5-7 years now. Coupes and especially the T version make considerable more. Most of the regular W123 in decent condition retail for considerable less than Euro 10.000. You would be hard pressed to find an add for a W123 (not a T version) over 10K Euro. Prices in the UK tend to be quite a bit higher than on mainland Europe. That is, if it pertains to an original factory build right hooker.
Jeroen

Yes, that's me. I bounce between both countries. My chariot in Bombay is a w124.

In my humble experience, I've found that prices usually rise in the US and then the UK and then Western Europe. As I have shared, pristine examples the diesels, wagons and coupes in the US have already breached $40K and are continuing to rise. In the UK, my 300D is valued at £25K. I have no problem holding on to it as the value continues to rise as the car's legend grows. Incidentally, I believe W115 diesels are even more desirable in all 3 regions. I was surprised to get a £30K valuation for my fully restored 240D.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

The number I mentioned is for a car fully restored by Mark, so the price of the car plus restoration. Yours was probably in pretty good nick to start with.

Mechanically, SLS system failure was the biggest issue. Mark did resolve this but his workmanship was spotty to say the least. You have to live with his work for a few weeks to find the flaws. On the surface, I agree it looks superb but I've learnt he is very cunning.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

As I said, I have seen a few of his cars and I was impressed. His book on W123, co-written with famous Classic Car enthusiast Martin Buckley is one of the best.
Jeroen

I know Martin well. I recently produced a Classic car show on Youtube with him called "New vs. Old" check it out!

[JoinedFish]

2. Vanden Plas (Jaguar) XJ V8 - 4.4L of British sports sedan. Asking price of Rs 28L is QUITE hefty considering that these aren't very reliable (prone to electrical gremlins) but still, very very rare.
Attachment 1989076

I could not find this anywhere, is this still available?