Trying to send a classic Bentley to India.

karlosdeville · 22nd June 2007, 12:35

I dont agree with people here saying Indian mechanics cant have that level of finish...agreed we have our share of so-and-sos, but there are a select group of people whos work can stand its ground anywhere in the world...Indian denters and very skilled, and amongst the most resourcefull as well. Using good equipment, paint finishes can match those anywhere else. What makes you think you are guarateed a good job in England? Im sure Pete will back me up on this. A high quality restoration can prove cost effective if you're in the right hands, shipping included. The real worry is Indian red tape. Since the laws are so vague, you will certainly have your hands full greasing palms here! You might get it here in pieces, but youll have to send it out whole after all.

Taking the mechanic there really doesnt solve the problem of cost... Our advantage here is cheap and easily accessible labour. You cant carry along one mechanic for the engine, one for the suspension, one for bodywork, (which wont suffice anyways), one for upholstry, one for woodwork etc...you get my drift?

V-16 · 22nd June 2007, 16:51

Having gone through (and some still in process) a lot of restoration jobs, i would firstly not agree with some of you as regards the quality of the job and the fit and finish. I am of the opinion that in India, the restoration job is as good as the ones abroad. In fact in many cases it would be difficult or impossible to get a certain kind of job done abroad which may be the contrary in India. I had an entire gearbox housing (aluminium) which was in several pieces, made and finished in a way that one cant say it was ever opened, leave alone broken in several pieces. Whats more, it works as good as brand new. Abroad, one would have to get a new one which could prove very very difficult not to mention expensive
The paint and finish our guys provide are next to the best available anywhere, only one must know what to get done, where.
Now coming to the topic of trying to get the Bentley here for restoration.. IMHO No way!!
Reasons: As Iraghava and Scooby have already pointed out that even if the work would have to be done here, the parts would have to be got from abroad which would mean custom duties, proceedures,etc in short, headaches. Will the end cost justify the car being sent here? We are talking about frieght, handling, etc.
Secondly sending a mechanic from here is not an option. Im sure the restoration Petes talking about is more so related to body work which would involve a whole team of people to be sent there not just one. If one is talking mechanics then im sure there are equally better mechanics available there to do the work. Here again the cost factor comes in to play. If one would take a few people there to get work done then it would involve the following costs too: Their travel, stay, food in the least. Then where would they work? So hiring a place comes into the scenario. Then what would they work with? So getting appropriate tools etc would have to be dealt with. This is just the beggining. They would not be familiar with the surroundings so where would they get their stuff and other oddities from. Its actually an impractical solution. Pete, Just get your job done in the UK and if you feel it will be still cheaper doing it here, please study the above factors before deciding anything. Believe me you dont want to get involved with the authorities over anything, its not worth anything!!

Also go through this link of a thread started by a teammate just today
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...port-laws.html

ukpete · 22nd June 2007, 16:51

Thanks for all your thoughts. I am still determined to get this car to India and let the mechanics in Udaipur do their best. I truly believe that they have the skills, but just need the right vehicle to work on. The vehicle that i will send is mostly complete and so shouldn't need many spares. Anyway, aren't the Indian people famed for their resourcefulness and ability to manufacture parts when needed?

I'm not expecting to make lots of money out of the venture, rather to prove to people in the UK that there are skilled people in India whose work can match the best on offer in the UK. Let's hope that there are also customs officials who will support such a venture and allow the trade!

Peter

Rtech · 22nd June 2007, 16:57

You need to get in touch with Nitin Dossa of the VCCI. If anyone can help you out, it's him!

V-16 · 22nd June 2007, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukpete

Thanks for all your thoughts. I am still determined to get this car to India and let the mechanics in Udaipur do their best. I truly believe that they have the skills, but just need the right vehicle to work on. The vehicle that i will send is mostly complete and so shouldn't need many spares. Anyway, aren't the Indian people famed for their resourcefulness and ability to manufacture parts when needed?

I'm not expecting to make lots of money out of the venture, rather to prove to people in the UK that there are skilled people in India whose work can match the best on offer in the UK. Let's hope that there are also customs officials who will support such a venture and allow the trade!

Peter

Well Pete Kudos to your determination, If your mind is set then all the best. We at team-bhp will help you out in any way we can and when i say this, Ill take the liberty to add that I speak for the most if not all of us. All i can say is Bravo!!

@ Rtech -If its regarding laws then i may agree but for any other job, Sorry buddy but I dont agree with you!

Rtech · 22nd June 2007, 17:01

Just a thought. Why can't the car be brought down on a carnet? Then there will be no problem from the customs.

ukpete · 22nd June 2007, 22:41

I agree that ideally the car would enter and leave on an ATA carnet. The Indian authorities though say that the car must be running for it to enter on a carnet. I don't agree, but that's what they say. The car I want to send definitely isn't a runner (I would post a picture, but tried earlier without success).

Esteem_lover, I have passed on the customs link you gave to the shippers. They are having their agents in Mumbai look at it, but think that a vehicle can't be classed as 'goods'. Catch 22 at the moment.

Peter

esteem_lover · 23rd June 2007, 00:16

It sure can pete as long as it falls in the first schedule which it does, but please check with your local authorities. It would be fantastic if you can get this done.

awini · 24th June 2007, 10:26

you can forget about customs officials supporting you. they would most likely wonder why the hell are you still running such a large car on petrol and not converted to gas/diesel !! unless you know someone really high up,they will do all they can to make life difficlult for you.
well, work here can be done quite cheaply and sucessfully, depending on type of work. i got a new water pump cast for my Lagonda V12 rapide for about Rs 8000, including patterns,and previous unsucessful attempts. no mechanic could do the work right, finally my plumber got it done!! it is similar to small household pumps. the quote for a new pump from UK was about 650 pounds plus shipping.
but the V12 Lagonda is too complicated mechanically, so one day it will go to the UK or USA (cheaper there) for restoration,also the body on my car is alloy, so very difficult to work on.
the Mark VI is comparitively an easy car to work with here, its all steel so more or less everything can be fabricared here.
but if restoration cost in the UK is an issue, why dont you trade it in for a lesser marque in better condition? a Daimler or Alvis perhaps?

kasli · 24th June 2007, 11:47

Sure, When would you like to send the car for work. Let me know. And send me snaps of the car on kasli@yahoo.com. Its present state .Regards
Aniruddh

scooby05 · 25th June 2007, 13:47

Just an Example of the type and finish possible abroad.
site:-
1960 Rolls Royce Silver Cloud II

I have my very personal doubts if we can close to such finishing!!
so many more sites of restorers all over Europe and USA, see their professionalism!!

ukpete · 6th August 2008, 13:23

Just thought people might like to know that I did send a Bentley R type to my friends in Udaipur. They restored the body and interior and rebuilt the engine. The car was repainted by them and re chromed.
We brought the car back to the uk where it was much admired and have now sold it. Didn't make any money on the venture, but we learned a lot and are now about to send a 1957 Bentley S1 to them for rebuild.
So Indian mechanics and denters can do a job as good as any in the UK. If only the Indian Government would allow them to use their skills without putting so much red tape in the way.

Peter

GTO · 6th August 2008, 17:00

Glad it worked out for you, ukpete. Did it take 12 months in total? Considering that you started this thread in June '07.

DKG · 6th August 2008, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukpete

Just thought people might like to know that I did send a Bentley R type to my friends in Udaipur.

...now about to send a 1957 Bentley S1 to them for rebuild

Wow this is wonderful news. Please share with us the modalities of sending cars from abroad to India. This is really wonderful news.

Please share some pictures here if possible so we may feast our eyes as well

gowda79 · 6th August 2008, 17:26

what were the costs borne by you, i think the import & export charges were the major bomb ???

What were the total costs for the total rebuil and time taken for the rebuilding the full car???

this thread is already year old and did it take such a long time to restore the vehicle ???

22nd June 2007, 12:35	#16
karlosdeville Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 11,976 Thanked: 18,277 Times View My Garage	I dont agree with people here saying Indian mechanics cant have that level of finish...agreed we have our share of so-and-sos, but there are a select group of people whos work can stand its ground anywhere in the world...Indian denters and very skilled, and amongst the most resourcefull as well. Using good equipment, paint finishes can match those anywhere else. What makes you think you are guarateed a good job in England? Im sure Pete will back me up on this. A high quality restoration can prove cost effective if you're in the right hands, shipping included. The real worry is Indian red tape. Since the laws are so vague, you will certainly have your hands full greasing palms here! You might get it here in pieces, but youll have to send it out whole after all. Taking the mechanic there really doesnt solve the problem of cost... Our advantage here is cheap and easily accessible labour. You cant carry along one mechanic for the engine, one for the suspension, one for bodywork, (which wont suffice anyways), one for upholstry, one for woodwork etc...you get my drift? Last edited by karlosdeville : 22nd June 2007 at 12:42.
	() Thanks

22nd June 2007, 16:51	#17
V-16 Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: mumbai Posts: 4,594 Thanked: 950 Times View My Garage	Having gone through (and some still in process) a lot of restoration jobs, i would firstly not agree with some of you as regards the quality of the job and the fit and finish. I am of the opinion that in India, the restoration job is as good as the ones abroad. In fact in many cases it would be difficult or impossible to get a certain kind of job done abroad which may be the contrary in India. I had an entire gearbox housing (aluminium) which was in several pieces, made and finished in a way that one cant say it was ever opened, leave alone broken in several pieces. Whats more, it works as good as brand new. Abroad, one would have to get a new one which could prove very very difficult not to mention expensive The paint and finish our guys provide are next to the best available anywhere, only one must know what to get done, where. Now coming to the topic of trying to get the Bentley here for restoration.. IMHO No way!! Reasons: As Iraghava and Scooby have already pointed out that even if the work would have to be done here, the parts would have to be got from abroad which would mean custom duties, proceedures,etc in short, headaches. Will the end cost justify the car being sent here? We are talking about frieght, handling, etc. Secondly sending a mechanic from here is not an option. Im sure the restoration Petes talking about is more so related to body work which would involve a whole team of people to be sent there not just one. If one is talking mechanics then im sure there are equally better mechanics available there to do the work. Here again the cost factor comes in to play. If one would take a few people there to get work done then it would involve the following costs too: Their travel, stay, food in the least. Then where would they work? So hiring a place comes into the scenario. Then what would they work with? So getting appropriate tools etc would have to be dealt with. This is just the beggining. They would not be familiar with the surroundings so where would they get their stuff and other oddities from. Its actually an impractical solution. Pete, Just get your job done in the UK and if you feel it will be still cheaper doing it here, please study the above factors before deciding anything. Believe me you dont want to get involved with the authorities over anything, its not worth anything!! Also go through this link of a thread started by a teammate just today http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...port-laws.html Last edited by V-16 : 22nd June 2007 at 16:55. Reason: add
	() Thanks

22nd June 2007, 16:51	#18
ukpete Newbie Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: london Posts: 9 Thanked: 2 Times	Still determined. Thanks for all your thoughts. I am still determined to get this car to India and let the mechanics in Udaipur do their best. I truly believe that they have the skills, but just need the right vehicle to work on. The vehicle that i will send is mostly complete and so shouldn't need many spares. Anyway, aren't the Indian people famed for their resourcefulness and ability to manufacture parts when needed? I'm not expecting to make lots of money out of the venture, rather to prove to people in the UK that there are skilled people in India whose work can match the best on offer in the UK. Let's hope that there are also customs officials who will support such a venture and allow the trade! Peter
	() Thanks

22nd June 2007, 16:57	#19
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,770 Thanked: 359 Times View My Garage	You need to get in touch with Nitin Dossa of the VCCI. If anyone can help you out, it's him!
	() Thanks

22nd June 2007, 17:01	#21
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,770 Thanked: 359 Times View My Garage	Just a thought. Why can't the car be brought down on a carnet? Then there will be no problem from the customs.
	() Thanks

22nd June 2007, 22:41	#22
ukpete Newbie Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: london Posts: 9 Thanked: 2 Times	Oh for a carnet I agree that ideally the car would enter and leave on an ATA carnet. The Indian authorities though say that the car must be running for it to enter on a carnet. I don't agree, but that's what they say. The car I want to send definitely isn't a runner (I would post a picture, but tried earlier without success). Esteem_lover, I have passed on the customs link you gave to the shippers. They are having their agents in Mumbai look at it, but think that a vehicle can't be classed as 'goods'. Catch 22 at the moment. Peter
	() Thanks

23rd June 2007, 00:16	#23
esteem_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Madras/Py Posts: 7,556 Thanked: 502 Times View My Garage	It sure can pete as long as it falls in the first schedule which it does, but please check with your local authorities. It would be fantastic if you can get this done.
	() Thanks

24th June 2007, 10:26	#24
awini BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 580 Thanked: 476 Times	you can forget about customs officials supporting you. they would most likely wonder why the hell are you still running such a large car on petrol and not converted to gas/diesel !! unless you know someone really high up,they will do all they can to make life difficlult for you. well, work here can be done quite cheaply and sucessfully, depending on type of work. i got a new water pump cast for my Lagonda V12 rapide for about Rs 8000, including patterns,and previous unsucessful attempts. no mechanic could do the work right, finally my plumber got it done!! it is similar to small household pumps. the quote for a new pump from UK was about 650 pounds plus shipping. but the V12 Lagonda is too complicated mechanically, so one day it will go to the UK or USA (cheaper there) for restoration,also the body on my car is alloy, so very difficult to work on. the Mark VI is comparitively an easy car to work with here, its all steel so more or less everything can be fabricared here. but if restoration cost in the UK is an issue, why dont you trade it in for a lesser marque in better condition? a Daimler or Alvis perhaps?
	() Thanks

24th June 2007, 11:47	#25
kasli Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: BOMBAY Posts: 1,821 Thanked: 2,005 Times	Sure, When would you like to send the car for work. Let me know. And send me snaps of the car on kasli@yahoo.com. Its present state .Regards Aniruddh
	() Thanks

25th June 2007, 13:47	#26
scooby05 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,145 Thanked: 192 Times	Just an Example of the type and finish possible abroad. site:- 1960 Rolls Royce Silver Cloud II I have my very personal doubts if we can close to such finishing!! so many more sites of restorers all over Europe and USA, see their professionalism!!
	() Thanks

6th August 2008, 13:23	#27
ukpete Newbie Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: london Posts: 9 Thanked: 2 Times	Update on Bentley R type restoration Just thought people might like to know that I did send a Bentley R type to my friends in Udaipur. They restored the body and interior and rebuilt the engine. The car was repainted by them and re chromed. We brought the car back to the uk where it was much admired and have now sold it. Didn't make any money on the venture, but we learned a lot and are now about to send a 1957 Bentley S1 to them for rebuild. So Indian mechanics and denters can do a job as good as any in the UK. If only the Indian Government would allow them to use their skills without putting so much red tape in the way. Peter
	() Thanks

6th August 2008, 17:00	#28
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,510 Thanked: 300,653 Times View My Garage	Glad it worked out for you, ukpete. Did it take 12 months in total? Considering that you started this thread in June '07.
	() Thanks

6th August 2008, 17:26	#30
gowda79 Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 1,478 Thanked: 194 Times View My Garage	what were the costs borne by you, i think the import & export charges were the major bomb ??? What were the total costs for the total rebuil and time taken for the rebuilding the full car??? this thread is already year old and did it take such a long time to restore the vehicle ??? Last edited by gowda79 : 6th August 2008 at 17:27.
	() Thanks