[Spitfire]

If we find a car/bike without papers but we do have the details like the engine number,chassis number and of course the registration number. Isnt it possible to track this vehicle at the local RTO? i dont know how easy or difficult this is. From these details "if" possible get to the rightful owner and get new papers made?

Is this possible or am i being too optimistic?

[C.S.ANANTH]

RTO,atleast in Tamilnadu have scrapped all old records (more than 20yrs). Thus search will be futile.Why does one need a RC? In a country where many public vehicles are driven without a permit & DL.
If the car is original, you can always get the exact year of manufacture from the respective car club overseas, by giving the chassis/engine nos.

[S@~+#0$#]

Nice thread, never knew this thread existed. Some valuable suggestions there from the Gurus.

It would be great if the stalwarts can share their weekly\monthly maintenance routine with us. Questions in my mind are:
1) How often do you start your cars?
2) Do you keep the battery connected?
3) Do you keep fuel topped up to the brim?
4) How often do you take your car for a spin?
5) How often do you clean your car? And how often do you wax them?
6) Do you have dedicated fulltime staff to take care of your ride
7) Where do you park your cars? In a farmhouse? How often do you visit?
8) What happens when your car gets scratched? Do you store some paint from the original restoration or just the color codes?
9) Tips on service and checklists, cost of maintenance etc

Thanks in advance for sharing

[JayD]

Originally Posted by C.S.ANANTH

RTO,atleast in Tamilnadu have scrapped all old records (more than 20yrs). Thus search will be futile.Why does one need a RC? In a country where many public vehicles are driven without a permit & DL.
If the car is original, you can always get the exact year of manufacture from the respective car club overseas, by giving the chassis/engine nos.

Err.. what is that supposed to mean? If u don't have the RC, and if the police flags your car down while on a drive and asks u to show the papers, what do u do?? Show him the eng number on the block??

Or if after restoration, if some clown comes with an RC and claims that its his car, what do u do??

And regarding the part where T.N has scrapped all records of old cars, does that mean that nobody has to pay any taxes for a car older than 20 yrs?(In the case a life tax is not paid)

[Spitfire]

Can someone please give an answer for post#16, i am trying to see whether even an effort can be made to salvage these cars which dont have/missing papers?

Everything thats required to make a new RC book is present on the car itself. Except probably if we dont know the actual owner and another one shows up. My grand dad's Sunbeam S7 is getting rotted because of this. I am paranoid even to truck it anywhere as i dont have any papers.

[JayD]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

My grand dad's Sunbeam S7 is getting rotted because of this. I am paranoid even to truck it anywhere as i dont have any papers.

Does your grandfathers sunbeam have a previous owner? Even if it has, its probably been a loooong time since u've got the car right? So shouldn't be a problem. Also, if u've got the reg number of the car(which i presume u do) You can go to the RTO and try to recover the RC. From what i've heard, making a duplicate RC should not be all that difficult in karnataka.

P.S; pls restore the sunbeam at the earliest, don't let her rot away.

[Spitfire]

Thanks for the answer JayD appreciate it.

The Sunbeam S7 is a motorcycle(i know wrong thread but didnt want a separae thread for it),a 1947 model. No one knows if the bike had papers and if they were there where they are right now. It was purchased by my grandad from Pune in 1947(not sure of the date but got the year from the numbers stamped on the bike) from a Parsi, bought brand new. It has been lying in the cowshed for 35 years. I have recently cleared all the muck and have covered it with plastic sheets.

Did we have papers then? I am assuming he bought it when the British were still in India. No one knows for sure my dad was born much later. And other elders in the family never bothered about the bike.

It did have a registration number but you can hardly make out now, my uncle has some old photographs when grandad bought it, will need to scan and zoom to get the registration number, have to pick the snaps in Mumbai. And the bike is in a coastal village in Western Maharhastra.

[deutscheafrikar]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Everything thats required to make a new RC book is present on the car itself. Except probably if we dont know the actual owner and another one shows up. My grand dad's Sunbeam S7 is getting rotted because of this. I am paranoid even to truck it anywhere as i dont have any papers.

@spitfire,

You need the registration number, chassis print and the signature of the person in whose name the Sunbeam is/was registered in. Then get the required forms of the RTO to get a duplicate book. If they are able to locate the records in the RTO then you will have to pay off the tax until date and get an insuarance cover for the bike. Find a RTO agent in that coastal village in Maharashtra or Pune to do this for you.

I've got a duplicate book and transfer in my name after waiting for 24 years!!! and in that period I bought another bike of the same make because I wasn't sure I'd be able to get the papers transfered in to my name

By the way check out classicglory : International Sunbeam S7 and S8 Group for info on Sunbeams

[bluestraveller]

Very informative, many thanks.
Here are a few questions that could help newbies like me.

1) I'm sure there is no fixed value in terms of money for a Vintage/Classic car but how do you know you are not paying too much?
2) Some spoke of knowing a very good mechanic. I completely agree! Can we have our members share the workshop name/ mechanic name and address in your respective towns/cites that you think are good
3) Places to look for abandoned, uncared, left rotting cars in your respective cites. Shops, junkyards where we could find parts. Again, a listing by city would be very helpful.

PS: I'm from Bangalore so eagerly waiting for people to fill me in on Qs 2 and 3

[vintageman]

Hello All ,

Wonderful thread and very apt advice from awini , Gogi , Karl and others , to add my own 2 bit and where I disagree - use the car as a daily driver - if this is not possible with the car you are restoring - use it as often as possible , at times when the traffic volumes are low .

And do make sure all the documentation is correct when you purchase the car . As regards purchase of car outside your state of domicile , ensure the sale is noted at the RTO office where the car is registered and an NOC obtained from the RTO to re-register the car in another RTO office. I understand a NOC is also required from the local "thana" in some states to ship the car . As most of the finds - are cars for which the taxes are long due , ensure the transfer and re registration charges are factored into your budget.

For transportation try using the regular car trailers who will give a big discount if your destination is on the route they will follow to the next loading point.

Another item which assists in a proper restoration is the workshop manual for the car , source it to learn more about the car . My observation on the issue is that the mechanics who will attend to your car will be proficient in the items / procedures learnt from his "ustad" but I have yet to find a mechanic who has bothered to really study and understand the car he is attending to , so guidance from the manual will be required. For American Cars try sourcing the manual from "Faxons"; and CASAGRANDE stocks manuals for older models of FIATS or check out the site for the "tocmp" - the old car manual project.

As regards the choice of cars the Beetle and the various models of the FIAT are perennial favourites , but a slightly challenging and a very satisfying results can be obtained with Plymouths , Dodges , Chevrolet , Fords and the Standard Vanguard from lates forties and early fifities - spares for which can be still sourced in India after a diligent hunt.

[vintageman]

Reference the query regarding misplaced and lost registration books , or if the Registration papers for the car being purchased are lost , the owner has to type out a notarized affidavit on a Rs 10 stamp paper stating the facts of the loss and then lodge an FIR at the police thana where the incident took place ( if at home , then do so in the local thana ) . Pursuant to this the owner has to apply for a new Registration Book basis the above documents.

I have yet to come across a case where the RTO office has been unable to trace the documents for a car / motorcycle , my personal observation has been that the records for the initial registration series are maintained in a register and somehow in every RTO office there is a single guy who is familiar with this register , so get hold of the correct person for the registration work.

[vintageman]

Hello Spitfire ,

For vehicles which are registered to your father / grandfather -

- does it have a registration number
- if it does have a registration number , check with the local RTO if the vehicle is registered in your grandfathers name.
- if it is registered in your grandfathers name , you will have to transfer the same to your name and re-register the vehicle.
- to transfer it to your name , you will require a succession certificate stating you are the rightful heir to whom the motorcycle is bequeathed - in UP this is issued by the DM if the value of the article is Rs 5000 or less ( if your present the motorcycle scrap ) . If the item is valued above RS 5000 then the succession certificate is issued after a case is filed in the civil courts. Get yourself a good lawyer , and let him do the work for you.

If nothing is available to prove your ownership , then the issue is quite complex , suggest take assistance from a lawyer well versed in the ways of the local RTO office .

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

This is a great thread - let me add my experience. I recently transferred my left hand drive Fiat from Kerala to Mumbai. The complete process took 3 months. The NOC was obtained from Kerala but the Mumbai RTO reverified it and then issued a Mumbai number to my car. It is a long and tedious process but it ensures peace of mind.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[Automaton]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

This is a great thread - let me add my experience. I recently transferred my left hand drive Fiat from Kerala to Mumbai. The complete process took 3 months. The NOC was obtained from Kerala but the Mumbai RTO reverified it and then issued a Mumbai number to my car. It is a long and tedious process but it ensures peace of mind.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

That is good to know, Sir. And knowing this is an old post/thread, does this still apply?

Some doubts I have been seeking answers to:

1.
I was advised recently by an RTO agent against buying non-Maharashtra LHD cars as the Mumbai RTO refuses to register inter-state LHD transfers.

2.
How long does the NOC remain active? I have heard 6 months.
Some cars on sale have NOC documents that are really old.

3.
Do you have to provide the original invoice/bill for every classic car or only the obviously imported ones. For example, may be required for an old Mercedes, but will it apply also for cars like the Beetle that were sold officially through dealerships in Goa, and was not a personal import?

4.
The other question I have is how do so many classic car owners keep their old number plates (non Maharashtra) and drive them around? Does it mean proof of residence from all the various states that the cars have been bought, often found with a single owner?
Don't know if this question is too hot for a straight answer, may even invite a private chuckle. But the reason I ask is to know if there is an above board way that I have not figured yet.

Thanks.

[harit]

Originally Posted by Automaton

That is good to know, Sir. And knowing this is an old post/thread, does this still apply?

Some doubts I have been seeking answers to:

1.
I was advised recently by an RTO agent against buying non-Maharashtra LHD cars as the Mumbai RTO refuses to register inter-state LHD transfers.

2.
How long does the NOC remain active? I have heard 6 months.
Some cars on sale have NOC documents that are really old.

3.
Do you have to provide the original invoice/bill for every classic car or only the obviously imported ones. For example, may be required for an old Mercedes, but will it apply also for cars like the Beetle that were sold officially through dealerships in Goa, and was not a personal import?

4.
The other question I have is how do so many classic car owners keep their old number plates (non Maharashtra) and drive them around? Does it mean proof of residence from all the various states that the cars have been bought, often found with a single owner?
Don't know if this question is too hot for a straight answer, may even invite a private chuckle. But the reason I ask is to know if there is an above board way that I have not figured yet.

Thanks.

Well, many out of state vehicles have had their taxes paid in Maharashtra. I have even seen an out of state vehicle with the old number but address is a Mumbai address. What is still possible maybe VCCCI can guide, maybe you have to join first

Cheers harit