[park-ward]

Originally Posted by magiceye

Attachment 3757

Clicked this beauty at the Atria Mall in Mumbai. They would not allow me to get inside to click and told me to click from outsied if I wished to do so and am glad I did.
Can someone identify this model please.

Hello Magiceye,
This is chassis #WVA28, a 1946 Park-Ward saloon.
Andre Blaize

[travancore]

Originally Posted by park-ward

Alvis,
The car of by Khan of Kalat was PII #76WJ, a Hooper tourer.

Hi park-ward:

76WJ is illustrated (pg 193) and described in The Derby Phantoms as belonging to "Sardar Sahib Prithipal Singh of India" (which I assumed was Sitapur)- Hooper body 7320. I am assuming it went from Kalat to Prithipal Singh or vice versa. Any comments ?

It also looks very similar to the car Alvis / PakWheels.com had mentioned in Pakistan (now painted a yellow + flared black wings. (I have already lost track of it in the threads!).

Alvis, could you post the picture ? Thanks

[travancore]

Originally Posted by park-ward

Hello Tranvancore,
This is chassis #82RM, a 1924 Barker limousine de ville. It is used by a hire company called Pakistan Services Ltd.

"BWP-1": Couple of more views are now on PakWheels.com. Go to the thread "RR used by Muhammed Ali Jinnah" - though that seems to be historically incorrect! (He with Mountbatten did use BWP-31)

[park-ward]

Originally Posted by travancore

Hi park-ward:

76WJ is illustrated (pg 193) and described in The Derby Phantoms as belonging to "Sardar Sahib Prithipal Singh of India" (which I assumed was Sitapur)- Hooper body 7320. I am assuming it went from Kalat to Prithipal Singh or vice versa. Any comments ?

It also looks very similar to the car Alvis / PakWheels.com had mentioned in Pakistan (now painted a yellow + flared black wings. (I have already lost track of it in the threads!).

Alvis, could you post the picture ? Thanks

Hi Travancore,
Lawrie Dalton used the order ledgers to write his books. Nick Whitaker & Bernard King used the delivery ledgers and sometimes orders got cancelled in between. The delivery documents show "Khan of Kalat" re. 76WJ. I'm still struggling with the Indian nobility titles, but my records show that Sardar Prithipal Singh was the Raja of Talicheri, living on the Aira Estate, Khari. Was there any connection between Talicheri, Sitapur and Kalat ??? I'll google all these and will revert to you.

[Alvis]

Originally Posted by travancore

Hi park-ward:

76WJ is illustrated (pg 193) and described in The Derby Phantoms as belonging to "Sardar Sahib Prithipal Singh of India" (which I assumed was Sitapur)- Hooper body 7320. I am assuming it went from Kalat to Prithipal Singh or vice versa. Any comments ?

It also looks very similar to the car Alvis / PakWheels.com had mentioned in Pakistan (now painted a yellow + flared black wings. (I have already lost track of it in the threads!).

Alvis, could you post the picture ? Thanks

travancore et all

I think 76WJ went from Sardar Prithipal Singh to Kalat - then gifted by Khan of Kalat to his Chief Advisor. It stayed in this family from circa 1943/44 to about three years ago when it was sold due to a tragedy in the family to a "so called" collector.
And yes, it is the same car now painted yellow with black wings. Memory from 1959 says it was White with a black top and interior. I have done Rawalpindi - Lahore - Rawalpindi ( 375 miles ) in this car in one day, winter of 1972.

Will try for the pictures. take care.

[Alvis]

Originally Posted by park-ward

Alvis,
The car of by Khan of Kalat was PII #76WJ, a Hooper tourer.

park-ward

Welcome aboard, and thank you for the nearly priceless information given out in a few postings!!

Thanks again for the confirmation. Always thought it was a P I, but now the debate ios over.

That Bahawalpur P III is armoured ? Was it fitted with bullet proof glass, must be tipping the scales at close to 7000 lbs!

[park-ward]

Originally Posted by travancore

Hi park-ward:

76WJ is illustrated (pg 193) and described in The Derby Phantoms as belonging to "Sardar Sahib Prithipal Singh of India" (which I assumed was Sitapur)- Hooper body 7320. I am assuming it went from Kalat to Prithipal Singh or vice versa. Any comments ?

It also looks very similar to the car Alvis / PakWheels.com had mentioned in Pakistan (now painted a yellow + flared black wings. (I have already lost track of it in the threads!).

Alvis, could you post the picture ? Thanks

Hi Travancore,
L.Dalton used the order ledgers to write his books, whereas Bernard King & Nick Whitaker used the guarantee books (delivery ledgers). The RR rec's show "Khan of Kalat" re. 76WJ, may be Sardar Sahib Prithipal Singh cancelled his order, which was not unusual. There are 2 Prithipal Singhs in my records, one was Sardar Sahib, Raja of Talicheri in the 1920's-1930's and the other one was the famous olympic hockey player born 1932, probably the one who owned a 1932 PII Barker sdv in 1966. But I'm still struggling with the Indian nobility titles and geography and I see no connection between Talicheri, Kalat & Sitapur which seem to be very far from each other.

[Chhayanat]

Originally Posted by travancore

Hi park-ward:

76WJ is illustrated (pg 193) and described in The Derby Phantoms as belonging to "Sardar Sahib Prithipal Singh of India" (which I assumed was Sitapur)- Hooper body 7320. I am assuming it went from Kalat to Prithipal Singh or vice versa. Any comments ?

It also looks very similar to the car Alvis / PakWheels.com had mentioned in Pakistan (now painted a yellow + flared black wings. (I have already lost track of it in the threads!).

Alvis, could you post the picture ? Thanks

An all-black Phantom II sedanca de ville was entered in a rally in Lucknow in 1966-67. The then owner was named in the brochure as Prithipal Singh from Sitapur. This is a district in Uttar Pradesh. The RR logo on the radiator was in black. Elswhere on this site, a post by a member from Lucknow says that the car is no longer in UP.

[travancore]

Originally Posted by park-ward

Hi Travancore,
L.Dalton used the order ledgers to write his books, whereas Bernard King & Nick Whitaker used the guarantee books (delivery ledgers). The RR rec's show "Khan of Kalat" re. 76WJ, may be Sardar Sahib Prithipal Singh cancelled his order, which was not unusual. .

Thanks park-ward and Alvis for the enlightenment on Chassis # 76-WJ.
Here are a few pictures I found on PakWheels.com
Alvis had confirmed earlier that this is indeed 76-WJ





Alvis, the car as shown in "The Derby Phanoms" does seem to be white / black - good memory!

[park-ward]

Originally Posted by travancore

Thanks park-ward and Alvis for the enlightenment on Chassis # 76-WJ.
Here are a few pictures I found on PakWheels.com
Alvis had confirmed earlier that this is indeed 76-WJ

Attachment 14193

Attachment 14194

Alvis, the car as shown in "The Derby Phanoms" does seem to be white / black - good memory!

Hello Travancore,
Thanks for the photos. The original colours of 76WJ were "Pastel Lemon over Pastel Rose". It was a demonstrator with RR India for almost 2 years, then in 1931 it was sold second-hand to the Khan of Kalat with 5,500 miles on the clock. Later it was painted Saxe blue & Napier green, then Amaranthe red, then white & black (in Dalton) and eventually yellow & black.
I'll try to post a photo taken at Hooper's just before delivery, but I must learn how to do it first ;o)

[park-ward]

76WJ before shipping to India.

[travancore]

Originally Posted by park-ward

Hello Travancore,
Thanks for the photos. The original colours of 76WJ were "Pastel Lemon over Pastel Rose". It was a demonstrator with RR India for almost 2 years, then in 1931 it was sold second-hand to the Khan of Kalat with 5,500 miles on the clock. Later it was painted Saxe blue & Napier green, then Amaranthe red, then white & black (in Dalton) and eventually yellow & black.
I'll try to post a photo taken at Hooper's just before delivery, but I must learn how to do it first ;o)

Hello park-ward:
Thanks a million for the magnificent photo; and as others have said so well before, for "filling in so many blanks" on the Indian RR's!!!

[travancore]

Originally Posted by park-ward

76WJ before shipping to India.

Hi park-ward:
Has this car's rear end also been slightly modified over its life ? The picture in "The Derby Phantoms" shows these differences from the "as delivered" picture above:
1. No rear trunk and a slightly tapered / boat like rear behind the seats
2. The rear mudguards are less flared and seem to rearch further down at the back (just above top of wheel rim)
Maybe these are just an optical illusion to my eyes!
The front wings, sill line, side panels etc seem to have been left alone!

[travancore]

Originally Posted by park-ward

Julian,
I forgot to comment on 3BU50 & 3BU76, both were shipped to India (I can name the ships !!)

Here is 3BU76 (thanks agian to Praeclarum)

[justrolls1]

Hello Travancore,

Here are some pictures from Indian Rolls-Royce PIII, I hope the chasisnumbers are correct.

Regards-Henk