Classic Rolls Royces in India

travancore · 6th October 2010, 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by fazalaliadil

Thanks Deepak,
And the pictures with specs. overleaf.

Attachment 434443

Attachment 434444

Attachment 434445

ATTACH]434446[/ATTACH]

Dear fazalaliadil:

Many thanks for the wonderful photos and chassis cards. Would you have any pictures of these cars in India ?

According to published records, the first owners for the two cars were:

Chassis # 16EX: Capt. J.F.C.Cruse. There was a very similar car by Jarvis (Chassis # 17EX, ex-Kashmir)

Chassis # 58OR: "Export to S.Africa"

This is not to say that the cars weren't in India. Any pictures in India would help correct the records as these being "India" cars. Cheers

fazalaliadil · 6th October 2010, 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by travancore

Dear fazalaliadil:
This is not to say that the cars weren't in India. Any pictures in India would help correct the records as these being "India" cars. Cheers

Travanore,
I am sorry, I do not possess it.

The only verification given to me was by my uncle who was the charge de affairs of the Nizam's fleet of cars.

He also showed me a folder containing letters of correspondence and specifications literature/ original photographs like these and many other manufacturers.

He did recommend both these RR's and they were the Nizam's, were his words, about 12 years back.

Regards,

DKG · 6th October 2010, 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by travancore

This is not to say that the cars weren't in India. Any pictures in India would help correct the records as these being "India" cars. Cheers

I agree. If only we could locate some pictures of the cars the Nizam had !!

harit · 7th October 2010, 11:48

From an authority it is opined that these cars NEVER came to India.

These photos and chassis cards make very nice memorabilia.
About the Nizam having 100 Rolls, or even 50, that is impossible. Maybe he had 50 or 100 cars, of various makes. I believe that Rajneesh was the one who tried to own 365 Rolls when he was in America, but he did not manage that. Maybe around 100 cars, someone will surely know the exact figure. All had to be sold, except for one stretch which he brought back to Pune.
Who had the largest number of Rolls in India? A Maharaja? and how many? I seriously doubt that anyone had more than 10 Rolls at one given time. Some Maharajas had cars in India and in Europe at the same time, maybe that added up to 10.

fazalaliadil, if it is possible, please try to get your hands on more correspondence and have a good look. Maybe these Rolls were offered to the Nizam, and he did not buy.
Nevertheless, as said earlier, very nice memorabilia.

Cheers harit

park-ward · 13th October 2010, 22:32

The histories of 16EX and 58OR are known.
58OR was delivered in 1929 to South Africa and has remained there ever since. The current owner is a famous RR collector.
16EX is also well documented. It remained in the UK until 1965 when it was sold to California. It is still there in the Blackhawk Collection. None of these cars went to India. All in all it is thought that the number of RR coachbuilt cars present and owned in Hyderabad state by a number of dignitaries did not exceed 35 to 50 between 1906 and 2010...

DKG · 13th October 2010, 23:08

A vast archive of the Nizam's documents is being catalogued presently. I will request the estate to keep an eye out for documents pertaining to the purchase of cars for the Nizam's use. Lets hope some interesting data emerges on the various cars bought.

Bulldogji · 23rd October 2010, 13:54

A little bird says a lovely phantom is added to the mind blowing Titus collection.And its NOT a boat tail.Any INFO? Over to Mr Jatti on behalf of the proud owner

wasif · 24th October 2010, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bulldogji

A little bird says a lovely phantom is added to the mind blowing Titus collection.And its NOT a boat tail.Any INFO? Over to Mr Jatti on behalf of the proud owner

Lets her more on it please .... is it a polished aluminium closed Phantom by any chance

harit · 25th October 2010, 11:07

There are two Phantoms junking in India which immediately come to my mind, one in around Delhi and the other in Indore. Maybe one of these?

Cheers harit

Bulldogji · 25th October 2010, 11:28

the price mentioned was far higher than the one being quoted by the owner of the phantom in delhi{ car being the only one I know being offerred some time back in delhi} so maybe Indore?Or some other discovery of the year?But at least one other beauty will be in good hands so all should be happy.

wasif · 25th October 2010, 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by harit

There are two Phantoms junking in India which immediately come to my mind, one in around Delhi and the other in Indore. Maybe one of these?

Cheers harit

Can we see some pics please, either here or privately ?

karlosdeville · 25th October 2010, 14:16

I was sent these pictures of the Kashmir Phantom 1 17EX. It seems the car has been rallying and came 18th in the 2010 Flying Scotsman rally (London to Edinburgh 350 miles) driven by Alexander Schaufler/ Michael Gross with a Austrian no. plate, 3 photos attached.
Also it appeared at the 2010 Ennstal Classic rally in Austria. 2 photos attached.

Classic Rolls Royces in India-17ex_phantom_i_kashmir_ennstal_classic_2010_by_bumpy_tours_on_flickr.jpg

Classic Rolls Royces in India-17ex_phantom_i_kashmir_ennstal_classic_2010_by_peter_singhof_from_barchetta_dot_cc.jpg

Classic Rolls Royces in India-17ex_phantom_i_kashmir_flying_scotsman_rally_2010_from_bvac_dot_org.jpg

Classic Rolls Royces in India-17ex_phantom_i_kashmir_flying_scotsman_rally_2010_from_migdalski_dot_co_dot_uk.jpg

Classic Rolls Royces in India-17ex_phantom_i_kashmir_from_stocktonmcmyfastforum_dot_org.jpg

Looks smashing!

shyml · 1st November 2010, 16:44

I totally agree that there is no question of HEH the Nizam having 100 Rolls Royces. His garages ( Motorkhanas) having in excess of a hundred cars is very believable if all and sundry are counted. All RR's are fairly accountable from build records etc, and My own search for RR cars sold new to the Nizam are as already seen in pics etc . As to having largest number of RR at a given time maybe the Nawab of Bahawalpur could rank among the top 10 having in his garages, say in 1967, his year of death, 4 Ghosts,1 twenty, 3 New Phantoms, 1 P-II, 1 P-III, 2 wraiths, 1 P-5,1 P-6, 2 Clouds bought new. There may be a few RR bought 2nd hand on his yearly stay in England but no record todate. His fleet of cars was divided in two categories: (i) Motor khana Nij =( Private Garage) and Mtor Khana Sirkar ( Official garages).All of above cars were his personal i.e Motorkhana Nij, including a 1926 Renault, 1930 Packard 740,Cadillac v-16, 2 Mercedes 540K's, various Jaguars, Bentleys, Armstrong Siddleys, Lancia, Lincoln v-12, Shikar wagons and the like, not to forget triumph spitfires etc. various cadillacs of models ranging from 1953 to 1966. Crysler Presidents, so on and so forth.
The Motor Khana Sirkari had mostly american cars, sually in pairs or fours for normal duties of the state.
I have heard people swear he dad forty RR which was probably a misunderstanding of fourteen.
It must be understood that while a lot of the Maharajas and Nawabs were fond of cars and braging rights a newmodel may bring for their staff, a perusal of the Nizam VI and VII's life will clearly show they had a cursory interest in cars. I doubt if the Nizam gave a second thought to what kind of car he was being driven in or how many he had. It may be difficult to believe but these gents were beyond this. I could go on but this is not the forum.
It is such a pleasure to see all the photographic treasure this wonderful site has collected and the plethora of knowledge availale in this forum.
Amer Ahmad

foby.sebastian · 1st November 2010, 17:16

found it while cleaning folders , RR from Udaipur

karlosdeville · 2nd November 2010, 10:54

Here is a 49 Silver Wraith Chassis # WDC64 with body by Hooper advertised for sale. The description states "was first sold to the High Commissioner of India"

Rolls-Royce Limousine by Hooper 1949 for sale - PreWarCar

Do we have pictures of this car when in India?

7th October 2010, 11:48	#1264
harit Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 4,033 Thanked: 3,281 Times	From an authority it is opined that these cars NEVER came to India. These photos and chassis cards make very nice memorabilia. About the Nizam having 100 Rolls, or even 50, that is impossible. Maybe he had 50 or 100 cars, of various makes. I believe that Rajneesh was the one who tried to own 365 Rolls when he was in America, but he did not manage that. Maybe around 100 cars, someone will surely know the exact figure. All had to be sold, except for one stretch which he brought back to Pune. Who had the largest number of Rolls in India? A Maharaja? and how many? I seriously doubt that anyone had more than 10 Rolls at one given time. Some Maharajas had cars in India and in Europe at the same time, maybe that added up to 10. fazalaliadil, if it is possible, please try to get your hands on more correspondence and have a good look. Maybe these Rolls were offered to the Nizam, and he did not buy. Nevertheless, as said earlier, very nice memorabilia. Cheers harit
	() Thanks

13th October 2010, 22:32	#1265
park-ward BHPian Join Date: May 2008 Location: France Posts: 130 Thanked: 125 Times	The histories of 16EX and 58OR are known. 58OR was delivered in 1929 to South Africa and has remained there ever since. The current owner is a famous RR collector. 16EX is also well documented. It remained in the UK until 1965 when it was sold to California. It is still there in the Blackhawk Collection. None of these cars went to India. All in all it is thought that the number of RR coachbuilt cars present and owned in Hyderabad state by a number of dignitaries did not exceed 35 to 50 between 1906 and 2010...
	(2) Thanks

13th October 2010, 23:08	#1266
DKG Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 3,711 Thanked: 1,389 Times View My Garage	A vast archive of the Nizam's documents is being catalogued presently. I will request the estate to keep an eye out for documents pertaining to the purchase of cars for the Nizam's use. Lets hope some interesting data emerges on the various cars bought. Last edited by DKG : 13th October 2010 at 23:09.
	() Thanks

23rd October 2010, 13:54	#1267
Bulldogji BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: planet earth Posts: 888 Thanked: 1,188 Times	A little bird says a lovely phantom is added to the mind blowing Titus collection.And its NOT a boat tail.Any INFO? Over to Mr Jatti on behalf of the proud owner
	() Thanks

25th October 2010, 11:07	#1269
harit Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 4,033 Thanked: 3,281 Times	There are two Phantoms junking in India which immediately come to my mind, one in around Delhi and the other in Indore. Maybe one of these? Cheers harit
	() Thanks

25th October 2010, 11:28	#1270
Bulldogji BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: planet earth Posts: 888 Thanked: 1,188 Times	the price mentioned was far higher than the one being quoted by the owner of the phantom in delhi{ car being the only one I know being offerred some time back in delhi} so maybe Indore?Or some other discovery of the year?But at least one other beauty will be in good hands so all should be happy.
	() Thanks

25th October 2010, 14:16	#1272
karlosdeville Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 11,976 Thanked: 18,277 Times View My Garage	I was sent these pictures of the Kashmir Phantom 1 17EX. It seems the car has been rallying and came 18th in the 2010 Flying Scotsman rally (London to Edinburgh 350 miles) driven by Alexander Schaufler/ Michael Gross with a Austrian no. plate, 3 photos attached. Also it appeared at the 2010 Ennstal Classic rally in Austria. 2 photos attached. Looks smashing! Last edited by mobike008 : 25th October 2010 at 15:45.
	() Thanks

1st November 2010, 16:44	#1273
shyml BHPian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Lahore Posts: 134 Thanked: 606 Times	I totally agree that there is no question of HEH the Nizam having 100 Rolls Royces. His garages ( Motorkhanas) having in excess of a hundred cars is very believable if all and sundry are counted. All RR's are fairly accountable from build records etc, and My own search for RR cars sold new to the Nizam are as already seen in pics etc . As to having largest number of RR at a given time maybe the Nawab of Bahawalpur could rank among the top 10 having in his garages, say in 1967, his year of death, 4 Ghosts,1 twenty, 3 New Phantoms, 1 P-II, 1 P-III, 2 wraiths, 1 P-5,1 P-6, 2 Clouds bought new. There may be a few RR bought 2nd hand on his yearly stay in England but no record todate. His fleet of cars was divided in two categories: (i) Motor khana Nij =( Private Garage) and Mtor Khana Sirkar ( Official garages).All of above cars were his personal i.e Motorkhana Nij, including a 1926 Renault, 1930 Packard 740,Cadillac v-16, 2 Mercedes 540K's, various Jaguars, Bentleys, Armstrong Siddleys, Lancia, Lincoln v-12, Shikar wagons and the like, not to forget triumph spitfires etc. various cadillacs of models ranging from 1953 to 1966. Crysler Presidents, so on and so forth. The Motor Khana Sirkari had mostly american cars, sually in pairs or fours for normal duties of the state. I have heard people swear he dad forty RR which was probably a misunderstanding of fourteen. It must be understood that while a lot of the Maharajas and Nawabs were fond of cars and braging rights a newmodel may bring for their staff, a perusal of the Nizam VI and VII's life will clearly show they had a cursory interest in cars. I doubt if the Nizam gave a second thought to what kind of car he was being driven in or how many he had. It may be difficult to believe but these gents were beyond this. I could go on but this is not the forum. It is such a pleasure to see all the photographic treasure this wonderful site has collected and the plethora of knowledge availale in this forum. Amer Ahmad
	() Thanks

1st November 2010, 17:16	#1274
foby.sebastian Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Thrissur/Kochi Posts: 2,693 Thanked: 2,836 Times View My Garage	found it while cleaning folders , RR from Udaipur Attached Images
	() Thanks

2nd November 2010, 10:54	#1275
karlosdeville Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 11,976 Thanked: 18,277 Times View My Garage	Here is a 49 Silver Wraith Chassis # WDC64 with body by Hooper advertised for sale. The description states "was first sold to the High Commissioner of India" Rolls-Royce Limousine by Hooper 1949 for sale - PreWarCar Do we have pictures of this car when in India?
	() Thanks