Daimlers in India

harit · 14th March 2009, 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by wasif

Thanks Harith.

I didnt speak about the V16 Caddys as I am aware that there were two ( Orcha & Tikari ) in India which have left the country.

Didn't know of a third one. Do tell more. Is this one of the Bhawalpur cars by any chance.

Lets see some pics of the Stutz and the 35 Packard V!2

Talking about photographs. There are many cars we know about, but we do not have photos. But when you talk to people, you know that they exist. For example, the Coimbatore Hispano. The owner kept the car with him, was very secretive, no photos till one day a photo appeared on a link thro bhp. Same tha XK 140 Ahmedabad. So photo, always knew about it, now seen coursey bhp. Same for the Stutz, V16 Caddy etc. We just have to wait and be patient till a photo pops out. Many knew about the Mumbai Hispano, it was lying out in the open, but no pics are available just now!

harit · 14th March 2009, 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintageman

Hi DKG,

I did not have any restriction from the owner regarding posting the photographs , if they have objections , they have my contact details - are reasonably well known to me and can contact me but yes - one thing we all agree about - the car is something special and there should not be any compromise made in it's restoration . As per my information the car should have 30" or 31" rims but I could not find the exact size from the information I had access to which included the Daimler Registry and other sites I could google plus some manuals; with the amount of knowledge and information available on this forum I reckoned somebody would be able to give a firm input regarding this ???? Everybody seems to come up with different specs .

Harit ,
I have had the '34 Plymouth with me since 27th Aug 03 , I have never offered it for sale and it does have the grill . But it does not belong here .

I recently spoke with a friend about the Daimler and he refreshed my memory.
This Daimler had been noticed for a very brief period beginning 1980's. Maybe, just maybe that was the time the present owner bought her. I had a friend at that time who was very much into valuable cars, if I rember correctly showed me this pic. The car was thrashed at that time already.
But now for the fact that this car is chopper Limo! This was done by the Maharaja who owned it at that time. DKG, did you actually see the car? A photo of the side was never available. Being a chopped car, I think she is out of top 10. And I now could not find at this point of time who this Maharaja was. put this in the daimler thread because discussing the Daimler here, when chopped top is reconfirmed we can go to the top 10 thread. I am sure of this 95%.

BTW,I am glad that Plymouth grill exists. I will search for the pic and send to you to check if this is the same or there are 2 such cars. These Plymouths are not very common in India anymore. The car was offered from Lucknow area only.

DKG · 14th March 2009, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by harit

But now for the fact that this car is chopper Limo! This was done by the Maharaja who owned it at that time.

chopper limo, boy oh boy, this is dynamite !!

Quote:

DKG, did you actually see the car? A photo of the side was never available.

I haven't seen the car physically but I do have a picture of it from rear 3/4's. From the picture Harit it looks like a proper convertible coupe. Doesn't look modified at all. A friend has seen the car and confidently says its not modified. But since you've raised a doubt we'll find out more

DKG · 14th March 2009, 22:38

Vintageman could you possibly help with more pictures of the Daimler?

DKG · 14th March 2009, 23:31

From the basic data available on the Daimler it appears to be a 1928 Daimler Double Six Model Q 30

The 30 refers to the V12 of displacement 3477cc

At the same time some V12's were available as the 50 which had a displacement of 7136 cc

The Q corresponds to the type of chassis with particular wheelbase as apparently the Double Sixes were offered in a variety of wheelbases to suit customer tastes in coachwork.

For the year 1928 the Q series of chassis would correspond to wheelbase of 10' 11" or 131", track 4' 4" or 52 inches

The tyres apparently suitable for this chassis were 31 x 5.25, which converts to a 21 inch rim.

Apparently at the most a total of 75 Double Sixes were made from 1926 until 1935 with one last car made in 1937 to use up left over supplies.

Interestingly no Double Six sported coachwork similar to another. All cars were unique and hence highly desirable.

The Corsica Double Six which went onto winning Pebble Beach has had coachwork by three builders !!

So by any standards this Daimler in India is a spectacular example and definitely worthy of the top ten spot.

vintageman · 15th March 2009, 09:01

Will take closeups next time I visit , it did not seem to be a chop job . The space in the garage does not permit a photograph from the side and till the wheels are sourced the vehicle cannot be rolled out . I have been informed the car has been with the present owners for the last 3 generations atleast.

DKG thanks for the information regarding the wheels , but - now we have 2 different sizes from 2 different sources - 33 X 6 and 31 X 5.25.

Chassis 30661 (the Corsica) had 23 inch rims to counteract the underslung rear end that lowered the ride height significantly but that could be a one of case . The only larger wheels ever attached to a production vehicle were the 24" on the Buggati Royale.

Would be grateful for any further information regarding the wheel size.

And yes the Daimler deserves a place in the top ten cars , if the owners decide to restore it.

Harit can we have some photographs of the other Lucknow Daimler with you , we locals have been wondering where the car ended up.

wasif · 15th March 2009, 12:34

Pictures of an engine bay of a Daimler Double Six courtsey of exoticar.

Can someone identify this car, it looks different form the Sanghi Royal Daimler.

The other two are pictures of the Daimler Double six in the Nethercutt Collection at Sylmar California.

They also have the Kapurthala Talbot Lago. I used to visit this collection often and the Talbot was undergoing restoration. It was subsequently entered at Pebble Beach and won its class.

They also have some remarkable Packards. One was a genuine unrestored 1919 sedan still with original paint / upholstry etc.Amazing.

DKG · 16th March 2009, 11:10

The Gondal Daimler too is a most impressive machine. I gather at best an estimated 75 V12's have been made in total. Each being distinctly unique. The Daimler Double Six is considered one of the most complex engines installed on a production automobile. They were known for their high degree of refinement and silence (on account of the sleeve valve operation)

This is such an 'in your face" car. The first time I saw it my jaw literally dropped to the floor

Wasif this will look quite the stunner when meticulously restored like the black one you posted.

There is one other large Daimler that possibly was in Surat and now in Ahmedabad, or were they two different cars? Does anyone have pictures/info on these cars. The words used by someone I met in Gujarat to describe it were "huge" car

wasif · 16th March 2009, 11:25

Who is the coachwork on the Gondal Daimler attributed to ?

It definitely is a stunner with Pebble Beach appeal.

DKG · 16th March 2009, 11:30

Talking about in your face presence the Darbhanga Daimler, now in Indore is a monster alright.

It was shown as a 1936 Daimler Double Six

The engine is a V12 40/50

DKG · 16th March 2009, 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by wasif

Who is the coachwork on the Gondal Daimler attributed to ?

It definitely is a stunner with Pebble Beach appeal.

Don't know Wasif, I wish I had spent more time studying each of the cars thoroughly, with the permission of the museum authorities. Their collection is definitely worth a visit. Amazing collection of cars.

wumpletoad · 22nd August 2009, 04:01

Greetings all,

There is a great deal more interest shown in Daimlers in India than is the case in England.

Sadly, in England, that once grand marque, in decline since the end of the War and whose traditions were killed off in 1961, largely is remembered only as a "badge engineered Jaguar". However, one cannot feel wholly empathetic with Daimler's fate since their denigration at the hands of Jaguar, Ford et al was no different from that which Daimler applied to Lanchester 30 years previously!

Anyway, be that as it may, BHPians seem to have a proper understanding of these things and so I thought the attached picture might be of general interest.

This car was a development vehicle used by the factory in 1918 to test the lightweight components to be adopted for the new, post-War "Light Thirty". This was the only new model offered at the 1919 Olympia Show; the "Standard" 6-30 and the 6-45 being continued from 1914. The car shown is a TP6-30 and subsequently was used as personal transport by Joseph Mackle, Technical Manager of the Daimler Company.

I'm disinclined to provide much more information as the vehicle is the subject of a book shortly to be published but perhaps the photo might cause someone to remember seeing a Light Thirty although, given its short wheel base (10' 8"), it might have proven too small for the Indian market. There are only two known to be extant but I shall be delighted to learn of another if one exists.

Best wishes,

Wumpletoad.

wumpletoad · 22nd August 2009, 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by wumpletoad

There are only two known to be extant but I shall be delighted to learn of another if one exists.

P S

The "TP" (and to special order only "TO") models are easily identified as they were the only contemporary Daimlers having a tapered bonnet and being without an external radiator cap.

Wumps.

Bulldogji · 2nd January 2010, 12:54

Sorry folks for butting in but had to comment on the V16 caddys.My family had one which was traded in as the head had cracked.This was in 1937.

john a milne · 2nd January 2010, 14:35

Wumpletoad.[/quote]

Great looking Auto!

Would it have been painted white as a factory standard colour or is the white on white paint job more recent?

As a point of interest I saw one of the most magnificent cars ever 6 years ago at RM Auctions restoration facility about 160 miles from Toronto. It was a early 30s Daimler Coupe, as big as they get, that had been shipped from England for a full restoration even thought it was in Good nick! I understand it cost about a million pounds and I would expect that the restoration cost based on 1500-2000 hrs. at $65. per hour plus materials and parts would put the cost about $140,000.

I am hoping that will turn up somewhere, sometime to see how it turned out. Are you aware of this car?

In the last ten years about three of their cars have won the big prize at Pebble Beach.

14th March 2009, 22:38	#79
DKG Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 3,711 Thanked: 1,389 Times View My Garage	Vintageman could you possibly help with more pictures of the Daimler?
	() Thanks

14th March 2009, 23:31	#80
DKG Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 3,711 Thanked: 1,389 Times View My Garage	From the basic data available on the Daimler it appears to be a 1928 Daimler Double Six Model Q 30 The 30 refers to the V12 of displacement 3477cc At the same time some V12's were available as the 50 which had a displacement of 7136 cc The Q corresponds to the type of chassis with particular wheelbase as apparently the Double Sixes were offered in a variety of wheelbases to suit customer tastes in coachwork. For the year 1928 the Q series of chassis would correspond to wheelbase of 10' 11" or 131", track 4' 4" or 52 inches The tyres apparently suitable for this chassis were 31 x 5.25, which converts to a 21 inch rim. Apparently at the most a total of 75 Double Sixes were made from 1926 until 1935 with one last car made in 1937 to use up left over supplies. Interestingly no Double Six sported coachwork similar to another. All cars were unique and hence highly desirable. The Corsica Double Six which went onto winning Pebble Beach has had coachwork by three builders !! So by any standards this Daimler in India is a spectacular example and definitely worthy of the top ten spot. Last edited by DKG : 14th March 2009 at 23:45.
	() Thanks

15th March 2009, 09:01	#81
vintageman BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lucknow Posts: 427 Thanked: 668 Times View My Garage	Will take closeups next time I visit , it did not seem to be a chop job . The space in the garage does not permit a photograph from the side and till the wheels are sourced the vehicle cannot be rolled out . I have been informed the car has been with the present owners for the last 3 generations atleast. DKG thanks for the information regarding the wheels , but - now we have 2 different sizes from 2 different sources - 33 X 6 and 31 X 5.25. Chassis 30661 (the Corsica) had 23 inch rims to counteract the underslung rear end that lowered the ride height significantly but that could be a one of case . The only larger wheels ever attached to a production vehicle were the 24" on the Buggati Royale. Would be grateful for any further information regarding the wheel size. And yes the Daimler deserves a place in the top ten cars , if the owners decide to restore it. Harit can we have some photographs of the other Lucknow Daimler with you , we locals have been wondering where the car ended up.
	() Thanks

15th March 2009, 12:34	#82
wasif Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Abu Dhabi (for now) Posts: 2,957 Thanked: 414 Times	Pictures of an engine bay of a Daimler Double Six courtsey of exoticar. Can someone identify this car, it looks different form the Sanghi Royal Daimler. The other two are pictures of the Daimler Double six in the Nethercutt Collection at Sylmar California. They also have the Kapurthala Talbot Lago. I used to visit this collection often and the Talbot was undergoing restoration. It was subsequently entered at Pebble Beach and won its class. They also have some remarkable Packards. One was a genuine unrestored 1919 sedan still with original paint / upholstry etc.Amazing. Attached Thumbnails
	() Thanks

16th March 2009, 11:10	#83
DKG Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 3,711 Thanked: 1,389 Times View My Garage	The Gondal Daimler too is a most impressive machine. I gather at best an estimated 75 V12's have been made in total. Each being distinctly unique. The Daimler Double Six is considered one of the most complex engines installed on a production automobile. They were known for their high degree of refinement and silence (on account of the sleeve valve operation) This is such an 'in your face" car. The first time I saw it my jaw literally dropped to the floor Wasif this will look quite the stunner when meticulously restored like the black one you posted. There is one other large Daimler that possibly was in Surat and now in Ahmedabad, or were they two different cars? Does anyone have pictures/info on these cars. The words used by someone I met in Gujarat to describe it were "huge" car Last edited by DKG : 16th March 2009 at 11:15.
	() Thanks

16th March 2009, 11:25	#84
wasif Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Abu Dhabi (for now) Posts: 2,957 Thanked: 414 Times	Who is the coachwork on the Gondal Daimler attributed to ? It definitely is a stunner with Pebble Beach appeal.
	() Thanks

16th March 2009, 11:30	#85
DKG Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 3,711 Thanked: 1,389 Times View My Garage	Talking about in your face presence the Darbhanga Daimler, now in Indore is a monster alright. It was shown as a 1936 Daimler Double Six The engine is a V12 40/50
	() Thanks

22nd August 2009, 04:01	#87
wumpletoad Newbie Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Exeter Posts: 23 Thanked: 6 Times	Greetings all, There is a great deal more interest shown in Daimlers in India than is the case in England. Sadly, in England, that once grand marque, in decline since the end of the War and whose traditions were killed off in 1961, largely is remembered only as a "badge engineered Jaguar". However, one cannot feel wholly empathetic with Daimler's fate since their denigration at the hands of Jaguar, Ford et al was no different from that which Daimler applied to Lanchester 30 years previously! Anyway, be that as it may, BHPians seem to have a proper understanding of these things and so I thought the attached picture might be of general interest. This car was a development vehicle used by the factory in 1918 to test the lightweight components to be adopted for the new, post-War "Light Thirty". This was the only new model offered at the 1919 Olympia Show; the "Standard" 6-30 and the 6-45 being continued from 1914. The car shown is a TP6-30 and subsequently was used as personal transport by Joseph Mackle, Technical Manager of the Daimler Company. I'm disinclined to provide much more information as the vehicle is the subject of a book shortly to be published but perhaps the photo might cause someone to remember seeing a Light Thirty although, given its short wheel base (10' 8"), it might have proven too small for the Indian market. There are only two known to be extant but I shall be delighted to learn of another if one exists. Best wishes, Wumpletoad. Attached Thumbnails
	() Thanks

2nd January 2010, 12:54	#89
Bulldogji BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: planet earth Posts: 888 Thanked: 1,188 Times	Sorry folks for butting in but had to comment on the V16 caddys.My family had one which was traded in as the head had cracked.This was in 1937.
	(1) Thanks

2nd January 2010, 14:35	#90
john a milne BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Toronto / Calcutta Posts: 908 Thanked: 458 Times View My Garage	Wumpletoad.[/quote] Great looking Auto! Would it have been painted white as a factory standard colour or is the white on white paint job more recent? As a point of interest I saw one of the most magnificent cars ever 6 years ago at RM Auctions restoration facility about 160 miles from Toronto. It was a early 30s Daimler Coupe, as big as they get, that had been shipped from England for a full restoration even thought it was in Good nick! I understand it cost about a million pounds and I would expect that the restoration cost based on 1500-2000 hrs. at $65. per hour plus materials and parts would put the cost about $140,000. I am hoping that will turn up somewhere, sometime to see how it turned out. Are you aware of this car? In the last ten years about three of their cars have won the big prize at Pebble Beach.
	() Thanks