[tazmaan]

Originally Posted by kavesh55

Cotton World ? Im sorry cant locate this. I thought you stayed near Poddar High School.

Yes it next to Podar School, I thought you were familiar with the area and narrowed down to a less popular land mark.

[Caddy]

Hi Kavesh and Tazmaan,
Yes, do let's keep in touch. Poddar school is in Santacruz right? I'm in the Eastern suburbs.
Kavesh, my car has blue interiors. Maybe due to bad lighting it looks like black in the pics. Also, I bought it more than about three years ago. Have gone on many long drives outside Bombay in this car and has never stood me up. I have greater confidence in this old beauty than any new car. But now I think it needs some more attention hence the questions in my earlier posts. Cheers. Caddy.

[tazmaan]

Originally Posted by Caddy

Hi Kavesh and Tazmaan,
Yes, do let's keep in touch. Poddar school is in Santacruz right? I'm in the Eastern suburbs.
Kavesh, my car has blue interiors. Maybe due to bad lighting it looks like black in the pics. Also, I bought it more than about three years ago. Have gone on many long drives outside Bombay in this car and has never stood me up. I have greater confidence in this old beauty than any new car. But now I think it needs some more attention hence the questions in my earlier posts. Cheers. Caddy.

I was in the same boat as you are, see my thread http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/post-w...-now-mine.html

[stormsearcher]

Hi guys, in my search for a w123, I've come across one in immaculate condition while traveling. It's a 81 300d, 4 speed manual, 5 cyl. Non turbo. Asking price is 4 lacs. is it a bit much considering the specs, or is the rate ok. Will post pics and details on reaching a comp.
Impressions are welcome. Thanks

[Rehaan]

Can't really comment on the price, though the fact that its a 300d (manual) means that its probably the best version of the W123 you could get. More reliable than the petrols, and more powerful than the 200D and 240D.

81 is a touch on the older side of the W123 scale though.

cya
R

[speedy]

Originally Posted by stormsearcher

Hi guys, in my search for a w123, I've come across one in immaculate condition while traveling. It's a 81 300d, 4 speed manual, 5 cyl. Non turbo. Asking price is 4 lacs. is it a bit much considering the specs, or is the rate ok. Will post pics and details on reaching a comp.
Impressions are welcome. Thanks

As far as i know immaculate 300d's go for anywhere between 2.75 to 3.5 lakhs. I am sure this is the asking price and if you sit across the table you'll walk away with the car at the market value. A manual 300d is an excellent car to use everyday with the right balance of power and comfort. The manual gearbox is easier to maintain and once you drive her you'll see its not even taxing in traffic.

[stormsearcher]

Originally Posted by speedy

As far as i know immaculate 300d's go for anywhere between 2.75 to 3.5 lakhs. I am sure this is the asking price and if you sit across the table you'll walk away with the car at the market value. A manual 300d is an excellent car to use everyday with the right balance of power and comfort. The manual gearbox is easier to maintain and once you drive her you'll see its not even taxing in traffic.

I will be adding pictures of the car so you guys can comment on what you think of it in terms of condition etc.

But since you brought it up, i thought the gear box was very notchy and the gears didnt slot so easily (espcially 3rd)... is this the case, considering its a very old design? Or is it the case with this car?

The clutch was sticky with no feel. Could be a maintenance issue not sure.

The brakes were pretty much dead and spongy in feel, hence could not even let the car stretch her legs a bit on the test drive. Again, no feel in the brakes.

There appears to be a microscopic play in the steering. Hardly noticeably, but i thought it was there. Could this be an issue waiting to crop up?

The diesel started up in half a crank (if there is such a thing) from cold, which i thought was very good, but its very noisy. Sounds like a truck.

I took her for a spin, the car takes off from 1st gear without even using the accelerator. But if you shift to 4th before it reaches 60, the car starts grumbling and struggles.

The engine sounds rough, but having never ever driven a old generation diesel of that capacity, am not sure if thats how it is supposed to be or it a case with this car.
However, if you observe the limits per gear, she moves very well (albiet with a lot of noise).

Some pics are attached. What do you guys think? 123 owners, can you tell me if the above mentioned are characteristics of the car?

[speedy]

Originally Posted by stormsearcher

But since you brought it up, i thought the gear box was very notchy and the gears didnt slot so easily (espcially 3rd)... is this the case, considering its a very old design? Or is it the case with this car?

The gears should be smooth and if its notchy and 3rd did not slot in i suspect gear rings on the way out.

Originally Posted by stormsearcher

The clutch was sticky with no feel. Could be a maintenance issue not sure.

It needs replacement.

Originally Posted by stormsearcher

The brakes were pretty much dead and spongy in feel, hence could not even let the car stretch her legs a bit on the test drive. Again, no feel in the brakes.

Thats brake work for you. Guess the callipers would be worn out and brake lines old.

Originally Posted by stormsearcher

There appears to be a microscopic play in the steering. Hardly noticeably, but i thought it was there. Could this be an issue waiting to crop up?

A little play does exist in the steering, nothing to worry about.

Originally Posted by stormsearcher

The diesel started up in half a crank (if there is such a thing) from cold, which i thought was very good, but its very noisy. Sounds like a truck.

you generally wait for the heater light in this to go off before cranking the engine. I wait for 5 mins after starting my car to drive off. A cold engine does sound bad but as they warm up its better sounding.

Originally Posted by stormsearcher

I took her for a spin, the car takes off from 1st gear without even using the accelerator. But if you shift to 4th before it reaches 60, the car starts grumbling and struggles.

these are diesels and they will behave this way. At 35-45 kmph she wont accept the 4th gear and she will let you know by turning extremely sluggish. It takes a bit to understand these cars and once you doo they are dreams.

Originally Posted by stormsearcher

The engine sounds rough, but having never ever driven a old generation diesel of that capacity, am not sure if thats how it is supposed to be or it a case with this car.
However, if you observe the limits per gear, she moves very well (albiet with a lot of noise).

The engine is not refined as the modern cars but dont sound rough in any way.
I have a strong feeling after reading your post that this car is well kept only externally and internally she needs work. Did you switch on the Air conditioner and drive, if yes was she loosing power?.

I am sure the experts would be able to guide you better on this.

[voodoochild]

Originally Posted by stormsearcher

The diesel started up in half a crank (if there is such a thing) from cold, which i thought was very good, but its very noisy. Sounds like a truck.

The engine sounds rough, but having never ever driven a old generation diesel of that capacity, am not sure if thats how it is supposed to be or it a case with this car.
However, if you observe the limits per gear, she moves very well (albiet with a lot of noise).

Is there a visual difference between the German and the Indian OM617 engines that served in the W123 and Tempo Traveller (etc) respectively? Its possible to tell after driving both these engines, but what can one make out by just a look under the hood?

[tazmaan]

Originally Posted by stormsearcher

I will be adding pictures of the car so you guys can comment on what you think of it in terms of condition etc.

But since you brought it up, i thought the gear box was very notchy and the gears didnt slot so easily (espcially 3rd)... is this the case, considering its a very old design? Or is it the case with this car?

The gears are a bit notchy, but not enough to prevent them from slotting easily. This issued can be linked to the problem with the clutch.

The clutch was sticky with no feel. Could be a maintenance issue not sure.

The brakes were pretty much dead and spongy in feel, hence could not even let the car stretch her legs a bit on the test drive. Again, no feel in the brakes.

The brake pedal does have more travel when compared to modern cars and hence they feel spongy for the 1st time. However did you try applying enough force on the pedal, the car doesn't have feather touch brakes like newer cars.

There appears to be a microscopic play in the steering. Hardly noticeably, but i thought it was there. Could this be an issue waiting to crop up?

This is standard, I have it too nothing to worry about

The diesel started up in half a crank (if there is such a thing) from cold, which i thought was very good, but its very noisy. Sounds like a truck.

The cold start that you have mentioned is a good indicator that the engine might be in a good shape. What kind of smoke did you see on engine start up and how much?

I took her for a spin, the car takes off from 1st gear without even using the accelerator. But if you shift to 4th before it reaches 60, the car starts grumbling and struggles.

Thats low end torque in 1st gear, at 60 the car will struggle and not have a quick pickup but grumbling should be limited if any do note the 4th gear is very tall, The car does 60 to 150 in the same gear.

The engine sounds rough, but having never ever driven a old generation diesel of that capacity, am not sure if thats how it is supposed to be or it a case with this car.
However, if you observe the limits per gear, she moves very well (albiet with a lot of noise).

The limit mentioned is the top limit for shifting. The engine does sound like a trucks engine when idling, however rev it and it gives out a very sweet sound, and at peak rpms almost petrol like.

Some pics are attached. What do you guys think? 123 owners, can you tell me if the above mentioned are characteristics of the car?

Please find my reply in bold, this is from my experience.

One thing you need to check is over heating, also check if the car maintains oil pressure at 3 even after the engine warms up, smoke etc

To me the car looks clean and at this age, expecting a niggle free car is like expecting to buy a new one at 1/4 the rate not fair. Not to discourage you, If you are planning to buy any W123 be prepared to maintain it, small things do keep cropping up. Good luck!

[stormsearcher]

@Speedy and Tazman-
Thanks a ton guys. Very valuable info. Let me try and answer some of the questions you guys posted.

I dont know why, but i didnt turn on the AC when driving. Only later did it occur to me that i should have tried it with the ac on.

I figured the gearbox might need some work. The clutch was sticky but it didnt feel worn out. The release and bite was smooth. But i guess if its been unused for 3 yrs (as the owner says-- very rarely used) these things will need to be looked into.

I waited for the glow plug to go off before starting her. :-) But i didnt check on the heating bit. New comer to this, so didnt know.

Shifting to 4th at 40-50kmph is received with slight vibration and sluggishness. You can hear the car vibrating like something is off.

The brake pedal incidentally did not have much travel at all. It was short and spongy. And no bite whatsoever. I pressed it gradually though, didnt stamp on it.

The engine smoked grey-black on start up, but after that it was pretty much faint. I was expecting to see plumes of black smoke, but it looked clean.

I am not expecting a niggle free car, i just need to know that i am not buying a lemon and if these are normal to this model of car and is it something that can be fixed without breaking the bank. I own a 28yr old RD and not new to getting my hands dirty to fix things. I actually quite enjoy it.

I absolutely loved the car, Am gonna try and negotiate the rate. I would have been more comfortable paying this money for a 5 speed manual, turbo 300D engine.

[kevinephraim]

Originally Posted by stormsearcher

I will be adding pictures of the car so you guys can comment on what you think of it in terms of condition etc.

Some pics are attached. What do you guys think? 123 owners, can you tell me if the above mentioned are characteristics of the car?

The Goa car!!!! with the owner saying its the most well maintained one ever!!!

Anyway, so here is the truth about the most well maintained car ever!!

Look around, you'll definitely find better ones!

[tazmaan]

Originally Posted by stormsearcher

@Speedy and Tazman-
Thanks a ton guys. Very valuable info. Let me try and answer some of the questions you guys posted.

I dont know why, but i didnt turn on the AC when driving. Only later did it occur to me that i should have tried it with the ac on.

I figured the gearbox might need some work. The clutch was sticky but it didnt feel worn out. The release and bite was smooth. But i guess if its been unused for 3 yrs (as the owner says-- very rarely used) these things will need to be looked into.

I waited for the glow plug to go off before starting her. :-) But i didnt check on the heating bit. New comer to this, so didnt know.

Shifting to 4th at 40-50kmph is received with slight vibration and sluggishness. You can hear the car vibrating like something is off.

The brake pedal incidentally did not have much travel at all. It was short and spongy. And no bite whatsoever. I pressed it gradually though, didnt stamp on it.

The engine smoked grey-black on start up, but after that it was pretty much faint. I was expecting to see plumes of black smoke, but it looked clean.

I am not expecting a niggle free car, i just need to know that i am not buying a lemon and if these are normal to this model of car and is it something that can be fixed without breaking the bank. I own a 28yr old RD and not new to getting my hands dirty to fix things. I actually quite enjoy it.

I absolutely loved the car, Am gonna try and negotiate the rate. I would have been more comfortable paying this money for a 5 speed manual, turbo 300D engine.

Engine smoke seems okay, mostly white smoke is scary! The vibration in the 4th gear as I said does exist at 40 or 50 kmph due to the tall nature of the gear. The brakes I feel is a bit rusty due to lack of use.

Don't buy the car unless the AC and heating with AC on is properly checked. I replaced the AC compressor at a cost of 25k though I knew it was around the corner when I bought it. The 5 gear W123 did seem to have more niggles compared to 4 geared ones. These deals usually happen spontaneously think a lot and more evils will come to mind.

[stormsearcher]

@tazmaan- Very well put. I agree on that last line. But once bitten twice shy. Bought my first RD on impulse, made the deal on the street where i met the bloke. That bike bled me dry. The second one was done with proper homework and is still a gem.

Isnt the turbo engine a better option though? As in, it was a newer technology AFAIK. What kind of niggles did the 5s M have?
For checking the heating with the AC on, how long would the car need to run with the AC on for the overheating to show up?

[stormsearcher]

Another detail i forgot to mention was that after taking the test drive, i parked the car and turned off the motor, as in turned off the key, but the engine kept going. Only after i opened the driver side door did the engine stop. I found that weird and didnt think about it, until i read up on some reviews where someone else has pointed out that this happens if there is a leak in the vacuum system.

Not sure if this is connected, but one of the things the owner was proud of was that door needed less than a nudge to close shut. Quiet without any fuss. All you need was to push the door very slightly for the last 3 inches and the door would shut clean. Now on reading up, i am wondering if that means the vacuum thinggy is not working properly in this car hence the super light door lock and the engine not shutting till you open the door.

Does anyone know more details of this vacuum lock system that these mercs came with? Apparently this is the one single fault with the 123s, as the vacuum system controls a lot of things inside the car and a leak anywhere could make the car do weird stuff (like engine running even after turning off the key).