[TractionAvant]

Originally Posted by Shrivardhan

As for the name "Andre", I agree on the comment that this would distinguish the cars prior to the takeover

Originally Posted by Shrivardhan

Hi all, talking in regards to the Bentley, yes it was my mistake. It is a 1934 3.5lt. Cheerz!

Thanks for the clarifications.

Originally Posted by Shrivardhan

There would be more to follow shortly. Cheerz!

Looking forward to it

Aditya

[john a milne]

Stopped by their works today and saw their MGA in it's final stages. It has a very interesting history which I will let Shrivardhan fill you in on later as he is home for a few weeks on Easter break from doing his MBA in England.

It's going to be absolutely smashing!

Their 1929 Big 6 Chevrolet is almost finished and is the most impressive Chey of this vintage I have ever seen. Photos later.

[harit]

Originally Posted by Shrivardhan

Hi, Following is my collection:
1906 RENAULT FRERES
1914 WOLSELEY LIMO-LANDAULET
1919 ANDRE CITROEN TORPEDO
1920 MOON TORPEDO
1923 RR 20HP ROADSTER
1923 FIAT ROADSTER
1925 RR PHANTOM 1 TOURER
1929 CHEVY PHAETON
1948 BUICK SUPER EIGHT
1949 MG TC ROADSTER
1951 CHEVY STYLINE DELUXE
1959 FORD FAIRLANE GALAXY
1961 MGA ROADSTER
1961 ROVER P5 3 LTR
1965 DUNE BUGGY

1939 BSA M20 600cc

As I am in England till March end, I could only post the pics including the RR P1 after which. The Udaipur RR has been passed on to a close friend, but was in a wreck when we acquired it. I would try posting the resoration pics. To get most of the photos please visit my facebook. Find 'Shrivardhan Kanoria'. The RRP1 has been with us since Grand Dad's days, and history of which is too old to be known. The blue RR 20hp was acquired from a Bengal Royal Family. The Moon is also ex-Udaipur HRH, and was bought along with the black RR 20hp '64 H9'. Cheerz!

An update.

I believe now that the size of the collection has reduced, the 1919 Citroen and 1923 Fiat have been sold to Mumbai. In fact, unfortunately the cars suffered some transport damage.
I also believe that in the days of old, there was a collector in Kolkotta, Mr. Hari Agarwalla (spelling?) who was a big collector in the 1970's and had Rolls's, Bentley's etc. Some were sold to Pranlal, but many cars came to Mr. Kanoria, he being his son in law!

Cheers harit

[karlosdeville]

Originally Posted by Shrivardhan

Hi, Following is my collection:
1906 RENAULT FRERES
1914 WOLSELEY LIMO-LANDAULET
1919 ANDRE CITROEN TORPEDO
1920 MOON TORPEDO
1923 RR 20HP ROADSTER
1923 FIAT ROADSTER
1925 RR PHANTOM 1 TOURER
1929 CHEVY PHAETON
1948 BUICK SUPER EIGHT
1949 MG TC ROADSTER
1951 CHEVY STYLINE DELUXE
1959 FORD FAIRLANE GALAXY
1961 MGA ROADSTER
1961 ROVER P5 3 LTR
1965 DUNE BUGGY

1939 BSA M20 600cc

I just noticed you mentioned a 65 Dune Buggy as part of the collection. Is it VW based? Can you give us more details and pictures on the car?

OT - I remember seeing a bright orange Myers style dune bug in an old Bollywood movie, regd MRY 303 I think. Anyone remember it?

[Shrivardhan]

Hi friends,

Yes the cars have suffered damage. As for Late Mr.H.C. Agarwal, he was my meternal grandfather. A few of his cars have been passed on to Mumbai, but none of his cars form our collection. The cars which we have were collected by Dad in the early 70's.

Cheerz!
SVK

[harit]

Originally Posted by TractionAvant

Thanks for the pictures Srivardhan, it is always interesting to see before, after & work-in-progress pictures . I must say you do some excellent work.
1931 would make this either an 8 or a 4 litre. It clearly is not an 8 and I thought there were'nt any 4 litres in India ????
Andre Citroen was the founder of Citroen. I dont think the cars were ever called 'Andre Citroen' (could be wrong here). Perhaps cars made before the Michelin takeover are called thus?

Kind regards

Aditya

I refer to posts 41 to 45 concerning Andre Citroen. Poor chap. AAAAGGGGHHHHHH!!!

Here is the story. The Citroen was purchased in Hyderabad by a friend who drove her back to Mumbai in 2 1/2 days, this happened in the 1980's. He kept her with a friend in his garage. There was some confusion, and the car went to Mr. Vijay Mallya. One collector from Lonavalla returned to India and picked up 3 cars from Mallya, a Citroen, a Fiat and a Ford A. The Ford A went on to a collection in Pune.
The Citroen and Fiat were lying in Lonavalla and ended up in Kolkotta. There, they were restored and then sold on to Mumbai. Both cars came to Mumbai and apparently suffered some damage. This was fixed.

The cars were worked on by Mr. Kanoria as per the thread. They are very skilled craftsmen, and that is where I have a problem. I always thought that MTY looked familiar, but I did not recognize her, THOUGH I have an identical car and went to Lonavalla specifically to examine this car. I took extensive pictures which I will post after 8 days as I have to pull them out and I am travelling from tomorrow. As my car is missing the radiator with shell and bonnet, I had a specific interest. Why did I not recognize this car? Because she has been altered to give an illusion of being something else. Anyone remembers the red Mercedes Roadster? Altered to make her look rarer and therefore more valuable. The same thing has happened here. Now look at the car carefully. Why is she a 1919? Probably because in some books there is a picture of a 1919 car and the title says Andre Citroen. 1919 apparently was the first year of production of such similar cars, but they only had rear brakes, not 4 wheel brakes. Now look at this car. Then there is the question about the headlights. Originally this car had headlights which were placed on holders emerging from the mudguard and have a bar/rod connecting the two. Now altered to give an older look with the 'U' clamps. This car is about 1926/28. The windshield is another creation. So are the door handles. What is that steel tea glass doing on the running board? The upholstry with the 'Samosa' pattern is an addition to give antique effect to this creation. Such style was applicable for pre 1920 cars which this car is not. And what happened to the original wheels? This car has 19" ADV Hero tyres, it should have solid disc wheels of 18". Then there was a toolbox incorporated in the running board with a cover having brass knobs.

If this car was over restored, well, that would not have been very good but one could live with that. But this car is not even over restored, it has been crafted to look like something else.
Someone even forwarded to me the email vide which this car was offered for sale. When I saw the price, wow!!! And there are folks in the vintage circle contacting fellow enthusiasts and shouting about the price paid.
And Kolkotta did have a 1919 Citroen, it was also yellow and had belonged to Mr. Agarwalla. Perhaps that car was the inspiration for this creation.

And this brings back a very old point. There can never be a too certain opinion, the restoration was praised, but some in the market referred to it as over restored, while it is actually a creation.

Now about the Fiat, I will post the pictures of that car when I find them after I return and then we can compare.
I do not know who owns these cars now, but he could consider to have a look deep into this.

no cheers for this imaginative creation
harit

[Shrivardhan]

Hello!

HAHAHA could anybody tell me my own origin and year of manufacture. It seems that people in this forum live to bite others. Ever since I have been posting on this thread, I have received good as well as constructive negetive remarks. But there are a few people who think themselves to be maestros. I think this recession has made many people lackly occupied, so they are getting into threads and commenting. People call a Klaxon bell horn a steel tea glass, and quilted design a burfi hahaha. great knowledge. I do not understand what is the problem with people with others. As long as I have my cars, I can even built a multistiory building on it, and nobody should bother, SINCE THEY ARE MY CARS. Whether people like it or not we care a '......' about it. I was encouraged to further post a few good before and after pictures, of cars which are getting completed now, but im sorry I would do no further. I am sorry fellow enthusiasts (the non-jelous ones), I would withdraw from this forum very soon, as I am a hobbiest, no commercial restorer. I do not require any mileage from this forum, nor do I fish for pulicity, as my Dad is a very old enthusiast and required people respect and know him well. My intention for entering this forum was to try spreading the vintage car hobby, and helping the new enthusiats get a taste of steps for restoration. ALL I CAN REMEMBER, IS THE STORY OF SOUR GRAPES. Please note like we put alloy wheels, spoilers,etc. to accesorise our modern cars, there used to be many accessories in the yesteryears as well. They are called period accessories. We have a huge stock of such period accessories to suit cars of different eras. We like accessorising our cars with such period accessories, pertaining to the particular era. International enthusiast like John Fasal have even come and appreciated our restoration, as Dad works with his own hand, in his leisure. Our restoration costs are neglegible as most of our efforts are personal. But anyhow if anybody finds this to be not worth cheering at, good luck to them. Creativity is appreciated worldwide. Well thats enough friends, and I assure you that I would try not posting further. If any serous enthusiasts need any help, our doors are always open, without any commercial interest. Feel free to email me anytime. Long live this hobby.
CHEERZ!

[wasif]

Now that tone of reply and personal comments regarding the poster are not called for.

Harit is a respectable collector who has been involved in this from much longer than you have been around and he has seen and knows the various cars all over India.


That horn thing is something I have never seen before but as logic would have it the placement of the horn should be in front of the car not the side as it is required to be heard by people up front not on ones side.

I can say that since India is a free country its your decision to stay, post further or abstrain.

The other thing is you have been wrong about dating of cars in the past as witnessed by the date attributed by you to the Bentley.

You seem to be confusing the word hobby with profession. You guys are known to restore cars and to subsequently sell them. This qualifies as a profession based on a hobby.

If you feel the details mentioned regarding the Citroen are not correct you can say so without personal comments on the person who is mentioning them.

I too believe that sometimes cars come to a restorer in bad shape and they are added to from a horde of spares that they have and the car ends up quiet different from what it originally was. This is OK but the point should hbe highlighted not obscured.

Also all early Ciroen cars usually featured Disc Wheels

Wasif

[predatorwheelz]

Tone of reply? Personal attack? Dude, what do you say to these previous posts directed to Shrivardhan Kanoria?

Originally Posted by wasif

I understand that the Chevy is under restoration and not completed but this doesn't lend credibility for the use of the extensive modern electrical equipment attached to the cowl. This will remain on the car even after it is complete as with the copper coloured coil.

I am not trying to upset the restorer but just pointing out he obvious. I understand the car was in a mess when aquired so when all that effort has been put in to source original parts from the restorers stock then even things like the wiring should be done as close to the original as possible.

It is clearly evident that the restorer in question has great capabilities but the standards seen to differ from car to car.

Originally Posted by harit

The cars were worked on by Mr. Kanoria as per the thread. They are very skilled craftsmen, and that is where I have a problem. I always thought that MTY looked familiar, but I did not recognize her, THOUGH I have an identical car and went to Lonavalla specifically to examine this car. I took extensive pictures which I will post after 8 days as I have to pull them out and I am travelling from tomorrow. As my car is missing the radiator with shell and bonnet, I had a specific interest. Why did I not recognize this car? Because she has been altered to give an illusion of being something else. Anyone remembers the red Mercedes Roadster? Altered to make her look rarer and therefore more valuable. The same thing has happened here. Now look at the car carefully. Why is she a 1919? Probably because in some books there is a picture of a 1919 car and the title says Andre Citroen. 1919 apparently was the first year of production of such similar cars, but they only had rear brakes, not 4 wheel brakes. Now look at this car. Then there is the question about the headlights. Originally this car had headlights which were placed on holders emerging from the mudguard and have a bar/rod connecting the two. Now altered to give an older look with the 'U' clamps. This car is about 1926/28. The windshield is another creation. So are the door handles. What is that steel tea glass doing on the running board? The upholstry with the 'Samosa' pattern is an addition to give antique effect to this creation. Such style was applicable for pre 1920 cars which this car is not. And what happened to the original wheels? This car has 19" ADV Hero tyres, it should have solid disc wheels of 18". Then there was a toolbox incorporated in the running board with a cover having brass knobs.

If this car was over restored, well, that would not have been very good but one could live with that. But this car is not even over restored, it has been crafted to look like something else.
Someone even forwarded to me the email vide which this car was offered for sale. When I saw the price, wow!!! And there are folks in the vintage circle contacting fellow enthusiasts and shouting about the price paid.
And Kolkotta did have a 1919 Citroen, it was also yellow and had belonged to Mr. Agarwalla. Perhaps that car was the inspiration for this creation.

And this brings back a very old point. There can never be a too certain opinion, the restoration was praised, but some in the market referred to it as over restored, while it is actually a creation.

Now about the Fiat, I will post the pictures of that car when I find them after I return and then we can compare.
I do not know who owns these cars now, but he could consider to have a look deep into this.

no cheers for this imaginative creation
harit

Originally Posted by wasif

Great job on the Citroen. These cars are not actually known as Andre Citroen but people use this term to distinguish early Citroen cars from those made after the takeover.

What about the bumpers. They have an uncanny resemblance to those seen on an orange Auburn. What a coensidence that two manifacturers from two different corners of the world were using the same bumpers on their cars !!!

Originally Posted by wasif

You seem to be confusing the word hobby with profession. You guys are known to restore cars and to subsequently sell them. This qualifies as a profession based on a hobby.

If these are not personal attacks, what are?

Harit amuses himself over the price Kanorias have charged for a certain car, yet contradicts himself in another forum saying that a restorer is free to put any price on a car he has restored!

Wasif, its amusing to see you classifying the Kanorias as a profession/hobby. Wasnt it you who so famously lambasted DKG when he tried to classify vintage car enthusiasts in another thread?

The truth is (and I very much intend to stir up a hornet's nest here) that Team-BHP has gained a bunch of vintage car enthusiasts, who though extremely knowledgeable and experienced, also happen to have a high-handed attitude that cocks a snoot at all other vintage car enthusiasts all over the country.

Shrivardhan has been attacked time and again on this forum, as have Indrojit Sorcar, Rajiv Ghosh, a certain Morris enthusiast from Chennai whose name I dont remember, and many others on their respective threads. I once replied to another guy's query on a certain car pic posted (what car is this?). My reply was a 2 liner, only to satisfy his question, and not to show off my "immense" knowledge over the thread. Immediately a bunch of you descended upon me saying that little knowledge indeed is dangerous!

I dont know Shrivardhan personally, though I do know Rajiv and a few other vintage car lovers in Kolkata (not Kolkotta - Harit, take note). But I do know a good restorer when I see his work. The number of restorations Rajiv & his dad have carried out singly is more than all of you - Wasif, Harit, and who have you - put together. So please get down from your armchairs of knowledge and appreciate the effort that people like Rajiv and Shri have taken.

A note to the mods. You are welcome to delete this post and hand me whatever punishment you wish. But do remember that there are many amateur & professional vintage car enthusiasts who have joined TBHP in the hope of gathering some knowledge, then been snubbed by these high priests and left. If you wish to let TBHP remain a true open forum - where individual opinion, however immature - is entertained and not snubbed, I suggest you take a good reading of all the threads under the vintage car section and realize where the section is headed.

Otherwise, sit back and watch stalwarts like the Kanorias leave the community.

Cheers.

[wasif]

Dear predatorwheelz.

Both my posts quoted by you have so personal remarks made against the gentleman in question or his esteemed family.

In the first post the modern wiring, which is all to visible was pointed out. This was done in a professional manner with resorting to cheap personal jabs.

When one post pictures of cars etc one opens up avenues for comments from others. Now to only expect and accept favourable ones is not cricket.

I thank you for highlighting the last line about the restorers capabilities. If you notice I have mentioned that it "is clearly evident that the restorer in question has great capabilities". Now this doesn't sound disrespectfull and personal to me.

This gentleman and his restorations are not the only ones recieving adverse comments in this forum. As I see it it is a forum dedicated to open and unbiased discussion between people who are passionate about vintage cars. So please forgive me if my calling a spade a spade upsets you.

My second post quoted also points out he obvious. Not two but three cars from the same shop have identical bumpers so is it really a coensidence or were they added on or as my esteemed friend mentioned "period accessories". I am open to comments and corrections on this.

Nowhere in all my posts on this forum can you find me attacking another on a personal level. This Sir is un called for and absolutely unacceptable.

It compares to a kid getting upset if his friends are not playing by his rules walking off with his ball.

Regarding the threats that there will be no further posts from the gentleman in question and that he might quit is entirely his decision. He is free to do as he pleases. He can choose to run and hide or he can choose to reply and set the record straight regarding the points raised about the Citroen.

Also by the bye the quilt design was refered to by Harit as a "Samosa" pattern and not a "burfi" as our esteemed friend has mentioned in his post. It is a good idea to actually read a post completely and comment accurately without ones own point of view being attributed to another.

Hope this sets the record straight.

[predatorwheelz]

Dear Wasif,

Do you know what an oxymoron is? Its when you state 2 words/phrases one after another, and the 2 have an opposing meaning.

Stating that a restorer's ability is unquestioned, and confirming in the very next sentence that his standards seem to vary is, my friend, an oxymoron. It not only dilutes the authenticity of the original statement, but makes the whole comment look like mockery!

A similar case could be where Harit calls the Kanorias skilled craftsmen, then goes ahead to lambast everything they have done with the car.

Anyway, this is not a language session. Neither am I defending Shrivardhan (as already stated, I dont even know the guy). I'm just speaking out against the high-handed attitude that a few of you have adopted on the site. You guys seem to have a very simple, 2 step philosophy.

1) When an amateur posts something of worth, you ignore him. The poor guy waits and waits to be included in the discussion and finally leaves.

2) When a professional (like Rajiv or Shri) put up their achievements on the thread, you go into a fault-finding spree with him, until the guy (obviously all vintage enthusiasts have egos, ask Harit) gets fed up and quits.

Thank you for replying to my previous post. I shall cease with my argument here and go back to what I joined TBHP for - automobiles. And unlike Shrivardhan, I wont leave.

Oh by the way, Happy Birthday Sir!

[DKG]

Originally Posted by harit

An update.

I believe now that the size of the collection has reduced...

....but many cars came to Mr. Kanoria, he being his son in law!

Irrelevant info and and an uncalled for provocation Harit

Originally Posted by wasif

Harit is a respectable collector who has been involved in this from much longer than you have been around and he has seen and knows the various cars all over India.

You seem to be confusing the word hobby with profession. You guys are known to restore cars and to subsequently sell them. This qualifies as a profession based on a hobby.

Wasif did you not once take strong objection to what you just did? ie Judging and classifying people?

Harit/Wasif if it weren't for comments like the above perhaps your discussion of the Citroen would be a lively and interesting debate. Comments like these set the wrong tone and load up your observations which perhaps on their own could be valuable

[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by DKG

Irrelevant info and and an uncalled for provocation Harit



Wasif did you not once take strong objection to what you just did? ie Judging and classifying people?

Harit/Wasif if it weren't for comments like the above perhaps your discussion of the Citroen would be a lively and interesting debate. Comments like these set the wrong tone and load up your observations which perhaps on their own could be valuable

I complretely agree with you DKG. Anyway let us not go into any furthur arguments and instead to do what we are here for i.e. help each other.

[wasif]

DKG.

Any input from you regarding the Citroen's past life in Hydrabad. I don't recollect this car but I distinctly remember a Bull Nose Cowley, in a vey sorry condition, lying in Sec Bad.

People tend to take such cars as a blank canvas to be embellished on and take all sorts of liberties, something about chopping tops off comes to mind here!!!!!

BTW I'm not clasifying them, its only their actions that have infuenced my judgment of them.

I agree Harit was a little harsh but the language and the tone of the reply from our gentleman friend was in bad taste too

[Shrivardhan]

Hello Friends,

At first I would like to apologise to hoever I have offended. But let me say that we are also not new kids in the block. Although I am a young chap, but our association with Vintage cars go far and wide. Im sorry the barfi and samosa bit was a typo, do to fast typing. If collectors very respected enough, I wuldnt have received critisisms like this. Positive criticisms are accepted but not mockeries. Am I not human? Is my tone only bad? What was the tone against me? Was it a love song? Was the tone very polite? Is this the kind of encouragement we youngsters look for? If people can give a direct negetive comment at me, am I supposed to sit back and clap? These two cars are on the post since months, but why is it now that these things are coming up? WE UNDERSTAND WHY... Moreover again I say Its my wish and my car. I do not need to justify here. This is a freindly forum. I hardly go into any thread commenting negetively, please check my posts. I have always tried to encourage. Once again I say, I CAN BE TARGETED DIRECTLY..AND THATS ALLOWED,,WOW,,WHY?JUST BECAUSE I HAVE FEW CARS..THIS IS NOT COOL. As i have repeated I am not a professional, and I do not need publicity. But I certainly would not accept anything negetively against my Dad who is more than sixty in age and enjoys his hobby by working personally by hand. Instead of being appreciated I gues people enjoy making fun off, AS A RESULT OF WHICH I AM WORKING HARD TO LEAVE THIS FORUM.

Regards...