[Bullfrog]

Wonderful thread DKG. I think it is an interesting topic to discuss.

I think these kind of threads when they dissect certain aspects of process of vintage psyche, it will help us understand enthusiasts better, for example Veerendra Heggade of Dharmasthala..What might be the driving factor behind his fantastic collection of cars and bikes ?

I have had the experience of talking/interacting to many enthusiasts/mechanics of 2 wheeled kind. What seems like passion during early part of conversation/visits slowly takes a business shape. Or rather people try to make business out of it. Early days I used to be disappointed by it but later on realized that, that's the way it is with classics. Sometimes it is difficult to demarcate where one (type) stops and other begins. Anyway now adjusted to both types and enjoy looking at or knowing more of bike when meeting owners/enthusiasts.

[ajay99]

Originally Posted by DKG

I don't see it that way. Why should an element of superiority or inferiority be brought into this? You are presupposing one perspective as better than the other. I don't, and nor have I suggested that even remotely.

People relate to things differently. Don't see any issue in documenting the fact of these differences. Why do it at all ? Not to judge people but create more awareness about differing perspectives leading to greater tolerance for one and all and increased commaraderie

congrats DKG for categorising the different types of vintage guys at least one can know the different ''species'' existing in this vintage/classic hobby.
I cant understand why people like wasif feels so offended and carried away by this.

[wasif]

Originally Posted by ajay99

congrats DKG for categorising the different types of vintage guys at least one can know the different ''species'' existing in this vintage/classic hobby.
I cant understand why people like wasif feels so offended and carried away by this.

It is because sitting back and catagorising people and trying to fit them into pre determined slots, firstly implies that the person doing so considers himself to be far superior and can see all the different angles and reasons for another persons actions.

Secondly it is an implied judgment that you have passed on the people that you have fitted in whatever catagory you did.

Its is not for DKG or anyone to catagorise or judge why a person does what he does.

DKG goes on to say that different people relate to things diferently. This is precisely my point. By making catagories etc you are implying that all people relate to different things in the same way.

Its as simple as this. It amazes me that this is not obvious. I know there are others on this forum that share my view on this subject.

[DKG]

I see value in this thread, Wasif doesn't. Its okay isn't it? He feels there are some who agree with him, there are some who don't. Its perfectly alright in my opinion. Sometimes its healthier to agree to disagree than to keep on badgering about an issue. When you see someone simply doesn't relate to your viewpoint it easier to walk away.

In a public forum you often will encounter views diametrically opposed to yours. Accept it. That's reality.

Those who see value can add to the discussion. Those who don't see value can either have a meaningful discussion about it or opt to ignore something they feel they cannot relate to.

Its a free world isn't it?

Now if Wasif or someone wishes to conclude erroneously that this thread in essence reflects someone feeling superior that's a conclusion they need to live with. I simply don't subscribe to his view. I see this as a step toward being more aware, not superior.

[ajay99]

DKG,
what i am going to say may be thoroughly wrong,but it is just my perception,
wasif seems perturbed by some point in the classification, which has struck a wrong chord somewhere otherwise,why should one be spenting so much time arguing about a NON ISSUE.
classification is there in all aspects of life. actually the first page of any topic in any major branch of science,economics, politics, etc will be Classification.
DKG, go ahead

[wasif]

Originally Posted by ajay99

DKG,
what i am going to say may be thoroughly wrong,but it is just my perception,
wasif seems perturbed by some point in the classification, which has struck a wrong chord somewhere otherwise,why should one be spenting so much time arguing about a NON ISSUE.
classification is there in all aspects of life. actually the first page of any topic in any major branch of science,economics, politics, etc will be Classification.
DKG, go ahead

Ajay.

This is precisely what I am saying. Who does the classifications as mentioned by you in the first pages of any topic ....

It usually is a person who is considered a master of that particular field. This is the point. You can make classifications for different types of cars etc, but when you try to sit down and classigy fellow human beings it implies that you are the master.

Thats what I am continously trying to say. No one has the right to clasifiy other human beings, you can do so in your mind, but in public it is not acceptable.

[ajay99]

Originally Posted by wasif

Ajay.

This is precisely what I am saying. Who does the classifications as mentioned by you in the first pages of any topic ....

It usually is a person who is considered a master of that particular field. This is the point. You can make classifications for different types of cars etc, but when you try to sit down and classigy fellow human beings it implies that you are the master.

Thats what I am continously trying to say. No one has the right to clasifiy other human beings, you can do so in your mind, but in public it is not acceptable.

I beg to differ, one need to be a master to make any classification.
that is why there are numerous types of classification on the same topic.
for eg: classification of vintage ,
classification of political parties can be based on ideology, numerics, regions, etc.
DKG has put his classification which holds value for me and many others.
if it doesnt appeal to you, you can ignore it or put in your own classification.
I still dont understand why a sensible Tbhpian like you are so worked up over this ,very strange!!

[DKG]

I'll relate an incident which will hopefully illustrate the relevance of what I am attempting to do here, which is simply to create more awareness on the different situations one will encounter in this wonderful hobby.

Some 2 1/2 years ago I started a superbiking group here in Hyderabad and it grew into the most enjoyable passtime we could ever wish for. As many as 20 odd bikers rode together on Sunday mornings followed by lazy breakfasts.

In time I could see people coming into the sport for different reasons. Some for the love of the machinery, some to be able to brag at parties, some saw it as an accessory to their image. Some saw it as a fashion statement and so on. Now you will say, there goes DKG with his classifications etc etc. Being aware of the different reasons for people getting into the sport it took me no time to spot trouble. One particular biker had psyched himself into believing that if he didn't ride ahead of the group on all occasions he wouldn't get accepted. He felt riding ahead was his identity, you know the best rider crap some chaps get into, and I started noticing this guy was taking chances everytime we rode because he felt if he didn't ride ahead he would be a misfit in the group.

I alerted the other senior riders, but they brushed it aside saying there was nothing to worry. I persisted and on one occasion made a big issue about the fact this guy was not only endangering his life but causing other impressionable riders to override too. For almost a year and a half I kept at it, suggesting we deal with the guy and tone him down. No one listened. In due course the guy had three accidents with the last almost proving fatal for another rider. My attempts to get the group to understand the guy's psychology and tone things down still fell on deaf ears.

Then last September my worst fears came true. He smashed into a bike on the road killing two kids.

Understandably everyone was shattered and many expressed their guilt in not heeding my advice. Some price to pay !!

Moral of the story guys is, you don't lose anything when you understand why people do the things they do. Being aware of people's perspectives simple allows you to deal with them more effectively in my humble opinion.

Its just the naive one size fits all attitude which causes so much of friction and I see people splitting into rival groups in every city.

This is not about pigeonholing people. Its about being sensitive to every individual and adapting to him/her to enjoy a smoother relationship with them.

[wasif]

Originally Posted by DKG

Moral of the story guys is, you don't lose anything when you understand why people do the things they do. Being aware of people's perspectives simple allows you to deal with them more effectively in my humble opinion.


This is not about pigeonholing people. Its about being sensitive to every individual and adapting to him/her to enjoy a smoother relationship with them.

Quiet so. One needs to understand other but one also needs to keep this understanding to one self and not try to impose it on others as others too have the capability to decide for themselves.Thats the point here.

How can you say it is not about pigeonholing people when it is precisely what you are doing by trying to group them into various classifications.

[DKG]

All human interaction hinges on an image you hold of another. Its essential for survival. When you see a snake you refer to its potential (an image you hold in your brain) to kill and are careful. That's not called pigeonholing. Its survival instinct.

Likewise with people we constantly evaluate another person's perspective to see how best you can relate to it. That's again not pigeonholing. Its part of human interaction. I'm sure you do it yourself but obviously are not willing to acknowledge its validity as a continous process.

Whether you like it or not Wasif people do come to the sport with differing perspectives. Awareness of such viewpoints is not an impediment to relating to another. It actually is an aid.

If you are unable to see this am afraid I cannot help further clarifying my point.

Originally Posted by wasif

I know there are others on this forum that share my view on this subject.

When I hear statements like this I think of the time when more than half the planet believed the Earth was flat, only coz everyone else believed it !!

[wasif]

Originally Posted by DKG

Whether you like it or not Wasif people do come to the sport with differing perspectives. Awareness of such viewpoints is not an impediment to relating to another. It actually is an aid.

DKG

I agree with you on the above but don't you thnk others can also arrive at their own conclusion as you have done. Why do you feel the need to be the one to do so on behalf of everyone else ?

[DKG]

Originally Posted by wasif

Why do you feel the need to be the one to do so on behalf of everyone else ?

I am insignificant in all this Wasif. Why are you attaching so much importance to my stating this. Evaluate the post for its validity. Discard it if you believe it is irrational. Accept if you see its validity. Challenge it if you feel its imaginary. DKG is irrelevant. The material is relevant.

BTW no where have I taken any names or stated my personal views of XY or Z as belonging to A B or C category. This is just light banter, something to think about, nothing serious.

Many people I know, especially the seniors in the fraternity across the country, are bitter and upset with so many people. I find it all too sad. In all this I see a basic failure to understand that different people come to the hobby for different reasons. Understanding that actually makes you more tolerant of people and not be shocked at certain behaviors and get upset as many I know do so often.

Try a test when you meet enthusiasts across the country. Ask them about others and see how many say nice things about each other. Chances are you will only hear people bitching about each other than appreciating that behind the differing perspectives perhaps there is a common bond that needs to be understood and valued. Personally I find it utterly distasteful that so many people in this hobby have such poor opinions about other enthusiasts.

[wasif]

Totally agree with you on this.How petty can people be and we expect our elders to be above this kind of crap.

[ajay99]

Originally Posted by wasif

Totally agree with you on this.How petty can people be and we expect our elders to be above this kind of crap.

dont blame the elders alone.the fact of the matter is ,recently there has been a rush of ''not so genuine'' guys into this field,which has upset many oldtimers!!
DKG if you had made this classification a decade ago I am sure there would have been only 3-4 categories!!!