[President]

Just read in todays TIMES OF INDIA, (Mumbai Edition) that the Government is planning to phase out 20 year old PRIVATE cars as it had earlier tried a decade ago, but was kept on hold till date.
And the hearing in High Court will be on 8th July '09.
It is a measure to ease traffic chaos.

However, this is a major concern for all Vintage and Classic car owners besides the owners of cars that are more than 20 years old.

I really sit and wonder if our Vintages and Classics do interfere with the daily traffic, as, in a whole day of actively watching for them by several teams, you may not come across a single one on the road.
Why restrict something that is already self-restricted by imposing legislation.
Moreover, majority of Vintage and Classic cars owned are in pristine condition and a delight for the public who watch them in awe, the rare times they come on the road.
Our country as a whole would be starved of its rich and rightful heritage by passing such a legislation.
Therefore, guys we need to do something on war footing to preserve our countries heritage and culture, before this date and the rule gets implemented.

[predatorwheelz]

Government of West Bengal has been trying to implement such a plan since 2000. Never been successful till date. The only bad thing it has done is mentally pressurize many Bengalis (including my dad, heh heh) into scrapping their priceless classics or selling them off to collectors in other countries.

I dont want to stir up a hornet's nest here, but quite a few vintage car collectors are people with strong business/political (whats the difference?) contacts. They'll make sure such a plan - which will make their collection go off the road - never gets implemented.

Of course, we have the added benefit of having a Didi in the opposition. We can just run to her for any policy the government implements. She'll oppose it without thinking its for good or bad!

[GTO]

Related thread : Many VC owners are powerful personalities, I'm sure there will be some concessions implemented to retain the heritage of these cars.

[gsajjanraj]

I think there is a fair difference between a vintage car and a old car. The Cars older than 20 years may not necessarily be a vintage car.

If government can come up with a classification between Vintage cars and Old cars, it would really great. They can scrap off the so called old and polluting cars older than 20years from plying on roads and leave aside the vintage cars.

As it is rightly said, not many vintage cars ply daily on the Indian roads. Rarely we see some vintage car rallys and they are a pleasure to watch.

[Stanher]

Originally Posted by President

Just read in todays TIMES OF INDIA, (Mumbai Edition) that the Government is planning to phase out 20 year old PRIVATE cars as it had earlier tried a decade ago, but was kept on hold till date.
And the hearing in High Court will be on 8th July '09.
It is a measure to ease traffic chaos.
However, this is a major concern for all Vintage and Classic car owners besides the owners of cars that are more than 20 years old.
Therefore, guys we need to do something on war footing to preserve our countries heritage and culture, before this date and the rule gets implemented.

This is a real testing time for clubs like the VCCCI- let's see how far they are successful in seeing that such a ban doesn't get implemented, especially not in their own HQ city! Its' during times like these that the real dedication of clubs towards their priceless wheels tends to come out!

Originally Posted by predatorwheelz

Government of West Bengal has been trying to implement such a plan since 2000. Never been successful till date. The only bad thing it has done is mentally pressurize many Bengalis (including my dad, heh heh) into scrapping their priceless classics or selling them off to collectors in other countries.
but quite a few vintage car collectors are people with strong business/political (whats the difference?) contacts. They'll make sure such a plan - which will make their collection go off the road - never gets implemented.

Same thing happened here in AP during the previous (TDP) govt.'s rule around a decade ago. The govt. had propsed to implement such a plan atleast thrice in the span of one year! This was, ironically, despite the fact that the then CM had even been present as a guest to one of the vintage/classic car rallies held in the city then!

Then they proposed a "green levy" that's work out so expensive that the owner would find it cheaper to buy a new vehicle than continue preserving the old one (I suspect it was an attempted hand-me-down of the COE rule imposed in Singapore, of which country the then CM was a great fan!)
Ultimately I guess it was then decided to settle for a simple green tax instead (500/- annually, now 1000/-), which has since been in force. However, IMHO it's still absolutely as pointless and by and large a mere excuse for the powers that be to mint some dough on the side!

However, the "news" of the then govt. implementing the intitial ban plan spread quite fast here, fanned by the media back then. And like in WB,
even here, many owners of classics/would-be classics then were compelled to sell their vehicles even in scrap, for as low as 4-5k for cars! Partly why so many cars like the old fiats, once common as dirt in hyd., have since disappeared!

Originally Posted by GTO

Related thread : Many VC owners are powerful personalities, I'm sure there will be some concessions implemented to retain the heritage of these cars.

I'm sure we all hope the same! As for the related thread in the link above, I've been through it, but find that most of the responses in it are for such a ban and very few concerns for vintage/classic car owners......so not quite related to this topic IMHO.

[the mole]

Whew Firstly I have to thank the moderators and founders of this site that we're back. My wife was praying more than me, cause all of a sudden without Team BHP I was showering too much attention on other unwanted issues in the house. and being quite a nuisance.

Now for the topic on hand, well I can only speak for Bombay oops Mumbai. What is the Governments defination of old? do they mean "Not roadworthy"? Then why are Bombay streets still flooded with junky Taxis (Sorry Fiat club) slowing down traffic and just being plain hazards on the road.

If this law is passed does that mean I have to scrap my Mint, showroom condition Maruti 1000 in 2012 which I drive once every month and garage during the monsoon?

If traffic and parking is such a concern, why have they failed to give Mumbai a world class Mass transit system like cities they like to compare themselves with (Shanghai sic). Heck why not atleast increase the number of Airconditioned BEST buses every bus will take atleast 40 cars of the road? I would gladly garage my car and take a Bus to work.

In my opinion this is just a knee jerk reaction to a situation already out of control. With the new law that private cars cannot be parked on the street most of Bombay's heritage precincts will be wiped out (vested interests at work?) where else will people living on beautiful art deco buildings with no parking in the compound park their cars? And then what will BMC then do with empty streets? simple Just make them pay and park and fleece people by allowing reparking of cars so that BMC can make easy money without having to build multi storey car parks like other countries so that cars stay of the street.

It is sad how a bunch of people who would have otherwise not qualified to work even in the Lower Management in a Private sector (and I am being polite) are today making aribitary decisions, that makes life uncomfortable for legitamate tax paying residents of this great city. Besides why not let Forces of economics play their part and interfere with things, afterall How many Maruti 800's (SS80's) do we see on the street anyways?

[aaggoswami]

This is a very sadist decision, if its taken and implemented. How can the government decide the state of vehicles that are more than 20 years old ?
Our Maruti 800 will be 20 years old in 2012, but right now it runs well than many others modern car that are ill maintained. And about Vintage cars, how many miles they do ? How many are we able to spot them, I mean numbers. They rarely come out and their number is quite small.

I wonder what is the logic behind this decision. If government wants to reduce pollution, what it needs to do is provide good quality fuel, good roads and make the exams for obtaining license more tough and corruption free. This will itself help beyond imagination.

Looks like government has lost sense ( as usual ) and has time to think about these matters, where as there are more serious issues coming up in country with respect to infrastructure.

[theMAG]

They should phase out old commercial vehicles if they're serious about reducing pollution and making the country more motorable. Congestion isnt going to be addressed by phasing out of old vehicles - new vehicles will be purchased anyway.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by gsajjanraj

I think there is a fair difference between a vintage car and a old car. The Cars older than 20 years may not necessarily be a vintage car.

So how does an old car progress to classic & then vintage. A lot of old cars are owned by retired folk who drive maybe 200km a month max.

[SuperSelect]

A related issue: The government is also thinking of "allowing one to buy a car only if one owns an off street parking space"
Pray how, how are they going to implement such a hare brained scheme ? Are they looking at encouraging false affidavits and start a whole new industry of Parking Touts ?!? .
Guys, its time to file a PIL against these decisions / proposals. Can anyone with enough influence with the WIAA and / or VCCCI help ?

[karlosdeville]

Im quite sure the vintage and classic car/bike fraternity need not worry too much - besides being a strong lobby, nobody really complains about the classics. They are too few in number, and rarely come on the roads, and everyone appreceates them and acknowledges their importance.

Who need to worry are Fiat/Padmini owners, old Maruti owners etc. Nobody will certify them as classics/historically significant. It is a sad state of affairs. Let us wait and watch - if forces do mobilise in this direction, we must take it up actively with the authorities. We at Fiat Club have a responsibility, it is one of the primary reasons for formation of the club. Anybody who thinks they can contribute in any way, please do so.

Anyone with friends in high places, do try and find out how serious they are. And how we can get exemption!

[Tejas@perioimpl]

Read the article carefully. It states that the old cars will be allowed to run on weekends. So vintage car owners should not fret too much.

My opinion is that, rather than phasing out these cars, have stringent norms for all cars which include tyre tread wear checks, pollution checks, fuel / oil line checks, etc. Most of the old cars i have seen are in a horrible condition with balding tyres, etc.
For example, UK has the penny test rule, if the penny goes in half the depth of the tyre tread, its fine, or else change the tyre ASAP.

[predatorwheelz]

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

My opinion is that, rather than phasing out these cars, have stringent norms for all cars which include tyre tread wear checks, pollution checks, fuel / oil line checks, etc. Most of the old cars i have seen are in a horrible condition with balding tyres, etc.
For example, UK has the penny test rule, if the penny goes in half the depth of the tyre tread, its fine, or else change the tyre ASAP.a

Not a bad opinion! UK's MOT (Ministry of Transport) test for vintage cars is one of the toughest in the world. Vintage & Classic car owners have to go through a nightmarish preparation schedule to succesfully clear the MOT.

IMO, it would do a world of good for India. A number of vintage car collectors resort to half-baked measures to keep their beauties running (In Kolkata, I have seen a rare classic with engine cracks sealed using M-seal, and another with Light truck tyres taken off an LCV). While non-detectable on the surface, it does nothing to prolong the life of the car. A stringent MOT will force the owner to properly do up his car, or sell it off to someone who can.

As for the penny test rule, it is a measure long advocated by automags in India. Very helpful surface check for tyre wear on any car, not just classics.

[karlosdeville]

A fitness certificate system is very much already in place. It is another matter altogether that it is not enforced.

[TuffRyder]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

Who need to worry are Fiat/Padmini owners, old Maruti owners etc. Nobody will certify them as classics/historically significant.

This is exactly what I was thinking about. It is guys like me who have to be worried about. The motorcycles that I collect are also the ones that I use quite regularly. For example, I own a 1991 Yezdi Twin, although it is no classic by any means, it is still a very collectable bike.

I wish the government has better plans like improving our mass transport system and giving those jobs to the rickshaw drivers here. It would help removing a lot of these from the roads and also there wont be much protests from them.

In Bangalore, I hardly see any old vehicles on the road and Im not talking about vintages here but even vehicles from the 80s.

Duplicating the western system of certifying our vehicles is just going to increase the number of people we have to bribe here, and if it does come into force, all my Yezdis and Jawas are going to be show pieces.

But then again, this is not the first time this has come up, so Im hoping I can ride my bikes for a few years more.