[Motorholic]

I guess we don't kept them off. Just ignore them .
I think they have a problem with the idea of acquiring and restoring older cars. When they are rusty and dirty, people don't take a liking to it. Now I don't have a car like this at all but I've never seen anybody not appreciate an old car that's been restored and looks in good running condition. If anything, it's difficult to keep street kids away from them .

[fiestarry]

Note from Mod : This post and the following discussion has been moved here from its original place in this thread

Reading the various posts regarding the availability and the restoration of old / vintage cars has got me thinking.
I am someone who has a keen sense of history. Being an engineer has ensured that the history and development of machines is also a topic close to my heart. However all said, I am not able to convince myself that restoring these run down or disintegrating cars is a necessary or a worthwhile. Apart from a rich man's whim to restore these cars and keep them in airconditioned garages to show them off to visitors OR an attempt to restore and sell at a high premium, I cant see any reason for this nostalgia.
Those machines were primitive in comparison with today's technology. Unless one intends to conduct a class for auto enthusuiasts or a bunch of students doing their BTech(Auto), what can you prove with a 1940s or 50s FIAT or a Morris. I think we could donate the money to more charitable cause and Kolkata is definitely in need of much donation

[911987]

@ Fiestarry
Strong words from someone with very strong opinions.
To each his own.
Don't see too many vintage enthusiasts turning over a new leaf to become part of your tree,sir,but for what it's worth will queue up behind you to make my donation to a "worthy cause",which by the way many of us have been doing for years already,albeit indulging our vicarious passions at the same time.
No offence intended,just my opinion,slightly divergent from yours.
Cheers.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by fiestarry

Reading the various posts regarding the availability and the restoration of old / vintage cars has got me thinking.
I am someone who has a keen sense of history. Being an engineer has ensured that the history and development of machines is also a topic close to my heart. However all said, I am not able to convince myself that restoring these run down or disintegrating cars is a necessary or a worthwhile. Apart from a rich man's whim to restore these cars and keep them in airconditioned garages to show them off to visitors OR an attempt to restore and sell at a high premium, I cant see any reason for this nostalgia.
Those machines were primitive in comparison with today's technology. Unless one intends to conduct a class for auto enthusuiasts or a bunch of students doing their BTech(Auto), what can you prove with a 1940s or 50s FIAT or a Morris. I think we could donate the money to more charitable cause and Kolkata is definitely in need of much donation

I think its part of human psyche. The same psyche which keeps human beings to take care of their old ones, instead of recycling as food or whatever.
Imagine, if human beings did not have the love of old and vintage, nobody would be allowed to exist beyond retirement, and simply recycled.

So as a part of that psyche, millions are spent on restoring historical buildings, preseving 300 year old artworks, and preserving old vintage cars. Its called preservation of culture, and is one of the very few things which makes us sentinent.

[predatorwheelz]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

So as a part of that psyche, millions are spent on restoring historical buildings, preseving 300 year old artworks, and preserving old vintage cars. Its called preservation of culture, and is one of the very few things which makes us sentinent.

Brilliant, couldn't have put it better myself.

To add to this, let me also clarify that many of these cars (at least the less expensive ones) are used as daily drivers to this day by their owners! There's a Hindustan 14 and a Landmaster (the latter fitted with a Isuzu 1800 engine) which do daily office commutes to Dalhousie in Kolkata. I know an old Bengali man in South Kolkata (and I'm not referring to John Milne ) who prefers his superselect to his son's Maruti Swift to do everday's running around. 1100D and Planet Rocker (Kolkata bhpians both) own an 1100D and Padmini respectively, which are both well-maintained and taken out frequently.

Secondly, once you start dabbling with classics, you'll be surprised to know what kind of innovations some of them possessed. Have you listened to a Jeep Hurricane engine at idle? The note is so silent and so refined, you'll be ashamed of the racket your Fiesta makes at idle . Have you seen the build quality of a Mercedes W123? Do the tap exercise when you find one. As in, close your fist, tap around all over the body and listen to the thud. Then repeat the exercise with any modern car, even a Merc. The W123 will feel you tapped an iron safe.

I could go on, but the point is simple. These cars may be using primitive technology and not be the most cost-optimum solutions to transport anymore. But they're the predecessors of modern cars, the blueprint on which moderns got refined. Knowing our roots (better, experiencing them) makes us understand our present better.

[wasif]

Originally Posted by fiestarry

Reading the various posts regarding the availability and the restoration of old / vintage cars has got me thinking.
I am someone who has a keen sense of history. Being an engineer has ensured that the history and development of machines is also a topic close to my heart. However all said, I am not able to convince myself that restoring these run down or disintegrating cars is a necessary or a worthwhile. Apart from a rich man's whim to restore these cars and keep them in airconditioned garages to show them off to visitors OR an attempt to restore and sell at a high premium, I cant see any reason for this nostalgia.
Those machines were primitive in comparison with today's technology. Unless one intends to conduct a class for auto enthusuiasts or a bunch of students doing their BTech(Auto), what can you prove with a 1940s or 50s FIAT or a Morris. I think we could donate the money to more charitable cause and Kolkata is definitely in need of much donation

All I can say is that one is free to make ones own choices.....if yours are not a vintage and classic cars fan then my dear frend you should not be wasting your time browsing or posting in this section of this forum.

[fiestarry]

Ha, Ha! I can see that I have made quite an impression albeit of a negative kind. Well, I have nothing against old cars (or old people) but do feel that it would only be normal for us to appreciate new technology and embrace it in a reasonable way.
To put things in perspective let me assure you gentlemen that I too have a fascination for old cars, buildings, pictures and am quite a history buff. I have viewed many a Vintage rally at Kala Ghoda in South Mumbai and have had many a chance to observe some Golden Oldies on the Marine drive on Sunday mornings . I have seen private collections of some special people at Walkeshwar, Mumbai and know a thing or two about the 12 cyl Duesenbergs and 20's Packards. My Grandpa had an Austin or two from the Brits and my Naani used to speak nostalgically of them.
I dont want to raise any more hackles and so that that. Thanks for the prompt responses, though.

[harit]

Originally Posted by fiestarry

Reading the various posts regarding the availability and the restoration of old / vintage cars has got me thinking.
I am someone who has a keen sense of history. Being an engineer has ensured that the history and development of machines is also a topic close to my heart. However all said, I am not able to convince myself that restoring these run down or disintegrating cars is a necessary or a worthwhile. Apart from a rich man's whim to restore these cars and keep them in airconditioned garages to show them off to visitors OR an attempt to restore and sell at a high premium, I cant see any reason for this nostalgia.
Those machines were primitive in comparison with today's technology. Unless one intends to conduct a class for auto enthusuiasts or a bunch of students doing their BTech(Auto), what can you prove with a 1940s or 50s FIAT or a Morris. I think we could donate the money to more charitable cause and Kolkata is definitely in need of much donation

Wow, totally , unsolicited thoughts and unpractical.
Restoring these cars is not a necessity, it is a hobby and a passion. It is worthwhile to the one who thinks that it is so, for any reason whatsoever, sentiments, family attachment, hobby, or sheer foolishness. We are not to question as long as it is legitimate.
Further, this passion somehow affects all strata of folks, from rich to poor, some save up to buy these cars, the junkier the cheaper, and when ready do not have airconditioned garages. Airconditioned garages, where are they? And if a restored car sells expensive, how is that a high premium? Many cars are sold at a loss.
Many cars were primitive, I have a friend who uses an SL but still asked me for my Amby. Maybe he felt nostalgic, maybe he was fed up of all the expensive plastic around him and wanted to feel metal. Also, very very few of us, if at all run an BTech classes, and why would we teach them outdated stuff anyway?
Look, you are on the wrong forum, you can try to convince your self, we won't try to, and as long as no one is harmed, let us do what we wish to.
As regards donations, you can shut down cricket at Eden Garden and house the poor, you can stop surfing and save electricity, there is lots for you to take care of at your end. Let us be!
Machines are OK, vintage cars are not.

Cheers to our hobby

[thebulletboy]

Originally Posted by fiestarry

I cant see any reason for this nostalgia.

I spent the better part of today morning under one of my cars, replacing a worn clutch cable, fiddling with nuts & bolts, checking for oil leaks etc. All in all a day well spent. It gives me satisfaction and that's reason enough.

Originally Posted by 911987

Strong words from someone with very strong opinions.

Rakhi Sawant has strong opinions as well, but I usually change the channel when she's on TV!

Originally Posted by wasif

All I can say is that one is free to make ones own choices.....if yours are not a vintage and classic cars fan then my dear frend you should not be wasting your time browsing or posting in this section of this forum.

I agree with wasif here. The thing about free will is that it's a two way street.
If I felt the need to vacate my bowels, I could just as easily choose to do my business on my neighbour's dining table, but it'd probably be best for all involved if I find a toilet (preferably in my own home)

[awini]

Originally Posted by fiestarry

and know a thing or two about the 12 cyl Duesenbergs .

now this is genuinely interesting. please share....

[anjan_c2007]

Originally Posted by fiestarry

Reading the various posts regarding the availability and the restoration of old / vintage cars has got me thinking.
I am someone who has a keen sense of history. Being an engineer has ensured that the history and development of machines is also a topic close to my heart. However all said, I am not able to convince myself that restoring these run down or disintegrating cars is a necessary or a worthwhile. Apart from a rich man's whim to restore these cars and keep them in airconditioned garages to show them off to visitors OR an attempt to restore and sell at a high premium, I cant see any reason for this nostalgia.
Those machines were primitive in comparison with today's technology. Unless one intends to conduct a class for auto enthusuiasts or a bunch of students doing their BTech(Auto), what can you prove with a 1940s or 50s FIAT or a Morris. I think we could donate the money to more charitable cause and Kolkata is definitely in need of much donation

I feel everyone is entitled to have his own opinion under the sky. In your opinion these are run down or disintegrating machines.To us, these are our treasures and of all the cars we own, we are the most touchy when it comes to the oldies, not the new ones. This is because any parent will tend to love his or her handicapped child more than the fitter ones.That law of nature applies here universally.
Many of us are not so rich but passionate about our old cars/bikes. It need not be a rich man who goes with vintages. Airconditioned garages for vintages are a myth.I need to be enlightened on this topic.
True these machines are primitive. As old car lovers we too are primitive, when we associate ourselves with these cars. These are as I said very dear to us no matter whosoever says whatever.
Let the BTech students get better training with the newer machines that have MPFI/CDRi,ECU's, ABS and so on.The old machines are best left to vintage car lovers.
"Kolkata needs donation" according to you. These old cars will fetch maybe some millions for charity, but that will obliterate history. No sane person in his right state of mind will ever offer such a suggestion or even talk about it.
It is better if you keep away from such weird ideas. You are in the wrong place, simply put.

[911987]

Gents,though I was the first to comment on Fiestarry's incendiary post,can't help but feel we are all pouncing on him too hard.Obviously,the fact that he is browsing the vintage thread implies some level of interest in this area,maybe he had a bad day at the office or was just suffering from a slight case of foot in mouth at the point he posted,as all of us have, I am sure,from time to time.
Let's cut the guy some slack and hope he sees the light.

@ Fiestarry,just wondering why you visited the great man at Walkeshwar given your distaste for what he collected.As far as your post goes,surely it would have drawn loud applause on the CPI(M) website,but on a thread populated by die-hard vintage enthusiasts,while I am not entirely comfortable with the hostility(again,only my opinion),not surprised at all by the outraged responses.
Re your recommendations on letting old cars sink into the ground,permit me to strike an analogy,do you think the destruction of the library at Alexandria,or for that matter Hitler's book burning spree were justifiable,given that we probably have far more up to date and more easily accessible matter available on hard drives today?

@Awini,appreciate that you were the only one to try and get some positives from the posts,with your inquiry on the Deusenberg.
And on that positive note,please feed the worm in me with something worth reading.
Let's all say cheese now.

[fiestarry]

Hey 911, Your sympathy and the hostility of the others are both welcome. It is good to see the passion that you folks have for your hobby and I admire that.
But you are right, Bullet boy remains a boy and Gad, what language. I wonder what you have to say if I suggest that we could look at restoring cars belonging to the early 90s like the M1000, Esteem and the Zen, maybe some Ford Escorts, Opels etc. Wouldnt they be more driveable, less polluting and more comfortable for daily use? Or am I yanking your chain too hard. Take it easy guys; one of you even suggested that I may have had a bad day at the office; you may well be right.
If you assure me of your continued indulgence, I will tell you about a shaft driven BMW 250, 1940s R model up for grabs. And a 40s model 350 twin cyl JAWA from Czechoslovakia. One of you may win this raffle.

[wasif]

Originally Posted by fiestarry

.
If you assure me of your continued indulgence, I will tell you about a shaft driven BMW 250, 1940s R model up for grabs. And a 40s model 350 twin cyl JAWA from Czechoslovakia. One of you may win this raffle.

That is so nice of you dear sir, please be totally assured we will all continue to indulge you ....we all cant wait to hear abou the bikes and see who wins the raffle !

Also please do tell us more about the 12 cylinder Duesenberg and share some pics of it if possible, is it in Mumbai ?

[r_nairtvm]

Originally Posted by wasif

That is so nice of you dear sir, please be totally assured we will all continue to indulge you ....we all cant wait to hear abou the bikes and see who wins the raffle !

Also please do tell us more about the 12 cylinder Duesenberg and share some pics of it if possible, is it in Mumbai ?

fiestarry,

+ 1 to Wasif.

Seriously, please enlighten us about what the criteria for the proposed raffle might be

I am already salivating about the BMW 250, 1940s R model up for grabs. And a 40s model 350 twin cyl JAWA from Czechoslovakia[/FONT][/SIZE]

Thanks, Best Regards & Drive/Ride Safely

Ram