[adimicra]

As you say, Jazz price cut is imminent.
There will no buyers for Jazz after the massive cut in City's price.So, it is just a matter of time before Honda does it.

So, if you can, better wait for it. But hold on, Jazz is already available at a cash discount of 75K plus some other freebies. Do you expect a bigger price cut? I don't. Honda will just make the price cut official as in the case of ANHC. ANd you might be paying more than now as happened in the case of few prospective ANHC owners.

What is the best deal you are getting on the Jazz. I would expect something like 75-80K on the OTR price and accessories worth 15-20K.
Try to bargain for some more if possible. Jazz at a discount of 1 Lakh or so is VFM to me for sure!

Can you give the final OTR price on Jazz and Punto after considering all discounts?

I have high regards for Punto but I don't have much in Fiat India's quality control. Too many issues (some small, some serious) have been reported.

The moment you sit inside the Jazz and then go inside the Punto, you tend to feel you have come a segment below - the difference in quality is so obvious.

If you can live with a Petrol and intend to keep the car for a longer time (Honda reliability) , Jazz should be it and you would not regret it.
After almost 10 months and 10000 kms, I feel so good that I stretched my budget and bought the car of my choice and every drive has been a bliss since then!
Best of luck mate!

@spindoc - I too was confused between the Jazz and the Polo 1.6. If the price difference is anywhere near 20-30K, Jazz is definitely a better choice IMO.
The 1.2 IVTEC engine is a gem and it does a 0-100 in 13 secs compared to 12 secs for Polo 1.6 (not much of a difference). Even the in-gear accelerations are equally matched (Reference:Autocar). Once you cross the 3000 rpm, the car takes off and you will find it difficult to believe that it is a 1.2. The engine becomes mad near the redline and hits the rev-limited in a jiffy if you are not careful. Also, you will get a much better mileage. (Autocar rates Jazz as the most fuel efficient premium hatchback in the country).
About handling, Jazz is good. Yes, it has some body roll but it is always well under control. The steering weighs in nicely at higher speeds. Compared to Polo, the steering is better (Polo's steering felt lighter at higher speeds) and body roll is similar (Polo might be a tad better). But overall, no great difference. The Punto, well, is in a class of its own when it comes to handling and ride quality.
But, the Polo has better ride quality at lower speeds than the Jazz which has a stiffer ride, particularly felt at lower speeds.
There are many pros of Jazz which you all might be aware of it. But one thing I would like to mention, which was a differentiating factor in my case is the hige boot in Jazz - 384 litres and all of it is usable. Since the load height of the boot is very low, you can load the suitcases vertically and believe me, it takes 4 standard size suitcases with ease, which is difficult to put in most sedans. I think only fellow BHPian who has a Civic and a Jazz said that they decided to take the Jazz for a long trip as the luggage could not be fitted in the Civic but could fit in the Jazz. This means, you will never need to buy a sedan for boot space.

Finally, as selfdrive has put it -
sometimes its ok to spend 20% extra if it brings that smile to your face. What would have been the point if I saved that 20%, owned any other car and sighed whenever a Jazz went by?

This is the exact reason I bought the Jazz and I don't regret it one bit. Car buying is more of a passionate decision (basic need is something on four wheels). So, sometimes need to listen to the heart (if possible ) :-)

[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by spindoc

Just back from a short TD of the Polo (1.2 P). It was done in the midst of traffic, so apologies for the "narrow" perspective.

Polo pluses:
Feels built to last forever.
Excellent quality of plastics and upholstery (Livon - Highline). Leagues ahead of Punto / Figo.
Steering very good for city use - tested at <50kph.
Outstanding gearshift (minus the reverse gear mechanism).
Comfortable front seats.
Ride quality was good although I suspect the tyres in the demo car were over-inflated.
Electrically adjustable ORVMs (in the new Highline).
Ergonomics seemed spot on.

Minuses:
Poor rear legroom plus huge transmission tunnel.
No USB, No Aux-in(!), No bluetooth.
No driver-side rear PW controls.
ORVMs not electrically retractable.
All-round visibility worse than Figo, but better than Punto.
No Climate Control (a minus versus the Punto).
Bad Price-to-features ratio.


The dealership experience (VW Mount Road) was good but the sales execs were not so informed. For e.g., the sales guy didn't know that the new Highline was missing remote window open / close, that it didn't have Aux-In or that the driver side PW controls were missing. He himself found these out later via physical examination - the new Highline was on display inside the showroom!

There are no offers whatsoever on the Polo except for a corporate discount - the 1.6 HL comes for 7.4L OTR in Chennai and the 1.2TDI for a whopping 8.1L. Personally, the Jazz with discounts looks attractive in comparison to the Polo 1.6, although it might fall well short in terms of performance / handling. The Punto 1.3 EP is a very good buy if one is willing to overlook outright quality and A.S.S. concerns.

A TD of the Polo 1.6 is on the cards. The TDI doesn't quite appeal to me with its noise levels (as heard from outside), more so at that price point.

Great review. Thanks, spindoc.

I absolutely agree with all the points you mentioned. The 3-cyl engine is surprisingly very refined and fine-tuned for excellent city handling and highway driving both. And the inside of the Polo feels premium - it exudes the feeling that you are sitting inside a VW!

The three areas which it needs to score is the rear bench (which is a given in most hatches these days, except possibly the upcoming Liva), the NVH levels, and the lack of features. For a car priced at 6.5L starting, it is pretty noisy! And it should come with at least some (if not all) of the missing features you mentioned (no AUX-IN or Climate Control, come on!). I think this is where the i20 is scoring above all other hatches of this segment. No wonder it is preferred over the Polo.

The 1.6 may be slightly more refined (just because it has a proper 4-cyl engine), but I don't think the NVH levels will be any better. The car needs better insulation, IMO.

I think most SPs don't bother to even read the brochures, until a customer walks in and their limited knowledge is tested. Honestly, I have found very few SPs who are well-informed about the cars they present. In most cases, even their basic knowledge is surprisingly lacking. All they care is to make a quick deal and nail their commission.

Eagerly await to see your thoughts on the Jazz.

Originally Posted by adimicra

As you say, Jazz price cut is imminent.
There will no buyers for Jazz after the massive cut in City's price.So, it is just a matter of time before Honda does it.

So, if you can, better wait for it. But hold on, Jazz is already available at a cash discount of 75K plus some other freebies. Do you expect a bigger price cut? I don't. Honda will just make the price cut official as in the case of ANHC. ANd you might be paying more than now as happened in the case of few prospective ANHC owners.

What is the best deal you are getting on the Jazz. I would expect something like 75-80K on the OTR price and accessories worth 15-20K.
Try to bargain for some more if possible. Jazz at a discount of 1 Lakh or so is VFM to me for sure!

Can you give the final OTR price on Jazz and Punto after considering all discounts?

I have high regards for Punto but I don't have much in Fiat India's quality control. Too many issues (some small, some serious) have been reported.

The moment you sit inside the Jazz and then go inside the Punto, you tend to feel you have come a segment below - the difference in quality is so obvious.

If you can live with a Petrol and intend to keep the car for a longer time (Honda reliability) , Jazz should be it and you would not regret it.
After almost 10 months and 10000 kms, I feel so good that I stretched my budget and bought the car of my choice and every drive has been a bliss since then!
Best of luck mate!

@spindoc - I too was confused between the Jazz and the Polo 1.6. If the price difference is anywhere near 20-30K, Jazz is definitely a better choice IMO.
The 1.2 IVTEC engine is a gem and it does a 0-100 in 13 secs compared to 12 secs for Polo 1.6 (not much of a difference). Even the in-gear accelerations are equally matched (Reference:Autocar). Once you cross the 3000 rpm, the car takes off and you will find it difficult to believe that it is a 1.2. The engine becomes mad near the redline and hits the rev-limited in a jiffy if you are not careful. Also, you will get a much better mileage. (Autocar rates Jazz as the most fuel efficient premium hatchback in the country).
About handling, Jazz is good. Yes, it has some body roll but it is always well under control. The steering weighs in nicely at higher speeds. Compared to Polo, the steering is better (Polo's steering felt lighter at higher speeds) and body roll is similar (Polo might be a tad better). But overall, no great difference. The Punto, well, is in a class of its own when it comes to handling and ride quality.
But, the Polo has better ride quality at lower speeds than the Jazz which has a stiffer ride, particularly felt at lower speeds.
There are many pros of Jazz which you all might be aware of it. But one thing I would like to mention, which was a differentiating factor in my case is the hige boot in Jazz - 384 litres and all of it is usable. Since the load height of the boot is very low, you can load the suitcases vertically and believe me, it takes 4 standard size suitcases with ease, which is difficult to put in most sedans. I think only fellow BHPian who has a Civic and a Jazz said that they decided to take the Jazz for a long trip as the luggage could not be fitted in the Civic but could fit in the Jazz. This means, you will never need to buy a sedan for boot space.

Finally, as selfdrive has put it -
sometimes its ok to spend 20% extra if it brings that smile to your face. What would have been the point if I saved that 20%, owned any other car and sighed whenever a Jazz went by?

This is the exact reason I bought the Jazz and I don't regret it one bit. Car buying is more of a passionate decision (basic need is something on four wheels). So, sometimes need to listen to the heart (if possible ) :-)

Shubh Honda has offered 55K discount, Rs.1/- insurance, standard freebies and the rear spoiler on the Jazz Select. I haggled him for dealer discount and to throw in front fog lamps as well, and he said the margins offered by Honda to him have thinned considerably. I told him I would be happy if I got only the rear spoiler and front fogs with the Select, and he said fogs weren't available separately with him right now, and I might need to pay for them. The final OTR is coming to about 7.89L, including the discounts and the freebies. I told him I will call him soon, and I might haggle some more till I get him to throw the fogs in.

The Punto 1.3 MJD EP is coming to 7.32L, after about 30K discounts on Extended Warranty, 1 year free insurance, accessories and premium color charges waived. This is for the 75HP Punto, not the 90HP one.

I was thinking of going to the capital at the end of this week for a final TD of both Punto variants, the Polo and the Jazz, but some other things have come up. So postponing the visit to early next month. By that time, the Liva should be available for a TD as well.

Btw, I have scratched the sedans off my list.

A request to the Mods to change the Thread Title to "Polo, Punto, Liva or Jazz? My research for The hatch continues!"

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Great review. Thanks, spindoc.

I absolutely agree with all the points you mentioned. The 3-cyl engine is surprisingly very refined and fine-tuned for excellent city handling and highway driving both. And the inside of the Polo feels premium - it exudes the feeling that you are sitting inside a VW!

The three areas which it needs to score is the rear bench (which is a given in most hatches these days, except possibly the upcoming Liva), the NVH levels, and the lack of features. For a car priced at 6.5L starting, it is pretty noisy! And it should come with at least some (if not all) of the missing features you mentioned (no AUX-IN or Climate Control, come on!). I think this is where the i20 is scoring above all other hatches of this segment. No wonder it is preferred over the Polo.

The 1.6 may be slightly more refined (just because it has a proper 4-cyl engine), but I don't think the NVH levels will be any better. The car needs better insulation, IMO.

I think most SPs don't bother to even read the brochures, until a customer walks in and their limited knowledge is tested. Honestly, I have found very few SPs who are well-informed about the cars they present. In most cases, even their basic knowledge is surprisingly lacking. All they care is to make a quick deal and nail their commission.

Eagerly await to see your thoughts on the Jazz.




Shubh Honda has offered 55K discount, Rs.1/- insurance, standard freebies and the rear spoiler on the Jazz Select. I haggled him for dealer discount and to throw in front fog lamps as well, and he said the margins offered by Honda to him have thinned considerably. I told him I would be happy if I got only the rear spoiler and front fogs with the Select, and he said fogs weren't available separately with him right now, and I might need to pay for them. The final OTR is coming to about 7.89L, including the discounts and the freebies. I told him I will call him soon, and I might haggle some more till I get him to throw the fogs in.

The Punto 1.3 MJD EP is coming to 7.32L, after about 30K discounts on Extended Warranty, 1 year free insurance, accessories and premium color charges waived. This is for the 75HP Punto, not the 90HP one.

I was thinking of going to the capital at the end of this week for a final TD of both Punto variants, the Polo and the Jazz, but some other things have come up. So postponing the visit to early next month. By that time, the Liva should be available for a TD as well.

Btw, I have scratched the sedans off my list.

A request to the Mods to change the Thread Title to "Polo, Punto, Liva or Jazz? My research for The hatch continues!"

best of luck mate! It reminds me of the research I had done during my car buying. If you get some more discount on the Jazz, it is sure worth it.
Polo - the main issue for me is the engines. The petrol is still okay, though unrefined and lacks outright power and can't hold a candle to the Ivtec of the Jazz or the K series of the Swift/Ritz.
The diesel is absolutely the worst diesel I have ever driven - the 1.3 Fiat MJD or the Ford 1.4 or the Renault/Nissan 1.5 dci engines are miles ahead.
The only variant of Polo worth considering IMO with your budget is the 1.6 petrol. Keep us posted. It will one heck of a car buying experience.

[bigautobuff]

Hi Ravenavi, I think you have not tried the vista-terra and the vista-90 lately. i own a vista terra and have completed the 10k mark happily. Also they are popular as the most powerful hatchback cars in India.

[spindoc]

Originally Posted by adimicra

But hold on, Jazz is already available at a cash discount of 75K plus some other freebies. Do you expect a bigger price cut? I don't. Honda will just make the price cut official as in the case of ANHC. ANd you might be paying more than now as happened in the case of few prospective ANHC owners.

What is the best deal you are getting on the Jazz. I would expect something like 75-80K on the OTR price and accessories worth 15-20K.
Try to bargain for some more if possible. Jazz at a discount of 1 Lakh or so is VFM to me for sure!

Can you give the final OTR price on Jazz and Punto after considering all discounts?

Sundaram Honda is quoting a price of ~ 7.7L OTR in Chennai versus the actual OTR of 8.54L. The sales exec said he would try and throw in a deal on accessories, though what they can offer remains to be seen.

The price sheet shows an insurance premium (Honda Assure) of around 28K which I am sure is quite inflated. The sales exec said the offer price includes a discount of 70k on the ex-showroom price and 20K on the insurance premium.

I have high regards for Punto but I don't have much in Fiat India's quality control. Too many issues (some small, some serious) have been reported.

The moment you sit inside the Jazz and then go inside the Punto, you tend to feel you have come a segment below - the difference in quality is so obvious.


@spindoc - I too was confused between the Jazz and the Polo 1.6. If the price difference is anywhere near 20-30K, Jazz is definitely a better choice IMO.
...
About handling, Jazz is good. Yes, it has some body roll but it is always well under control. The steering weighs in nicely at higher speeds. Compared to Polo, the steering is better (Polo's steering felt lighter at higher speeds) and body roll is similar (Polo might be a tad better). But overall, no great difference. The Punto, well, is in a class of its own when it comes to handling and ride quality.
But, the Polo has better ride quality at lower speeds than the Jazz which has a stiffer ride, particularly felt at lower speeds.
There are many pros of Jazz which you all might be aware of it. But one thing I would like to mention, which was a differentiating factor in my case is the hige boot in Jazz - 384 litres and all of it is usable. Since the load height of the boot is very low, you can load the suitcases vertically and believe me, it takes 4 standard size suitcases with ease, which is difficult to put in most sedans. I think only fellow BHPian who has a Civic and a Jazz said that they decided to take the Jazz for a long trip as the luggage could not be fitted in the Civic but could fit in the Jazz. This means, you will never need to buy a sedan for boot space.

Finally, as selfdrive has put it -
sometimes its ok to spend 20% extra if it brings that smile to your face. What would have been the point if I saved that 20%, owned any other car and sighed whenever a Jazz went by?

This is the exact reason I bought the Jazz and I don't regret it one bit. Car buying is more of a passionate decision (basic need is something on four wheels). So, sometimes need to listen to the heart (if possible ) :-)

The Punto still stands really tall with its outstanding ride and handling. Interior quality is no match for either the Jazz or the Polo, although the Polo "felt" better overall - more like a combination of Punto's heft and Jazz's plastics quality.

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Great review. Thanks, spindoc.

I absolutely agree with all the points you mentioned. The 3-cyl engine is surprisingly very refined and fine-tuned for excellent city handling and highway driving both. And the inside of the Polo feels premium - it exudes the feeling that you are sitting inside a VW!

The three areas which it needs to score is the rear bench (which is a given in most hatches these days, except possibly the upcoming Liva), the NVH levels, and the lack of features. For a car priced at 6.5L starting, it is pretty noisy! And it should come with at least some (if not all) of the missing features you mentioned (no AUX-IN or Climate Control, come on!). I think this is where the i20 is scoring above all other hatches of this segment. No wonder it is preferred over the Polo.

The 1.6 may be slightly more refined (just because it has a proper 4-cyl engine), but I don't think the NVH levels will be any better. The car needs better insulation, IMO.

I think most SPs don't bother to even read the brochures, until a customer walks in and their limited knowledge is tested. Honestly, I have found very few SPs who are well-informed about the cars they present. In most cases, even their basic knowledge is surprisingly lacking. All they care is to make a quick deal and nail their commission.

Eagerly await to see your thoughts on the Jazz.

Time for a quick review of the Jazz, again based on a short drive, wading through traffic.
Pluses:
Visibility all around - this was the first thing that struck me sitting inside the car.
Super low NVH levels - you don't hear a thing at idle even with the AC off! No noise or vibrations throughout our drive (< 50 kph).
Steering felt equal to or better than the Polo at city speeds. Not sure of high speed behaviour. I liked the Punto's steering better even at city speeds, although it is definitely heavier. My friend disagrees - he liked the Jazz's steering the most.
Feels solidly built - at least it was a lot sturdier and heavier than I expected it to be.
Plastics are very good, although the Polo's interiors exuded a more premium feel (my opinion which is not based on deep scrutiny).
Space - can seriously stand its own against a sedan.
Very responsive engine. Did not feel any lack of power during the TD.
Clutch and gearshift quality.

Not-Pluses:
Poor under thigh support front and back. No lumbar support. (I am 5'11"). Not sure how occupants will fare on long trips.
No seat height / telescopic steering adjustments = my friend was unable to find a driving position he liked.
Suspension is no match for the Punto / Polo.
Likely under-powered for the highway - definitely so in comparison to the Punto VGT and Polo 1.6 (not yet test-driven).
Low GC and skinnier tyres than Polo / Punto (EP).
Poor price-to-features ratio.

At the end of the day, while the Jazz feels decidedly bigger and superior overall to the competition, (some of) the missing features and the comfort levels (seats and suspenson) are aspects to ponder over.

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by spindoc

Sundaram Honda is quoting a price of ~ 7.7L OTR in Chennai versus the actual OTR of 8.54L. The sales exec said he would try and throw in a deal on accessories, though what they can offer remains to be seen.

The price sheet shows an insurance premium (Honda Assure) of around 28K which I am sure is quite inflated. The sales exec said the offer price includes a discount of 70k on the ex-showroom price and 20K on the insurance premium.




The Punto still stands really tall with its outstanding ride and handling. Interior quality is no match for either the Jazz or the Polo, although the Polo "felt" better overall - more like a combination of Punto's heft and Jazz's plastics quality.




Time for a quick review of the Jazz, again based on a short drive, wading through traffic.
Pluses:
Visibility all around - this was the first thing that struck me sitting inside the car.
Super low NVH levels - you don't hear a thing at idle even with the AC off! No noise or vibrations throughout our drive (< 50 kph).
Steering felt equal to or better than the Polo at city speeds. Not sure of high speed behaviour. I liked the Punto's steering better even at city speeds, although it is definitely heavier. My friend disagrees - he liked the Jazz's steering the most.
Feels solidly built - at least it was a lot sturdier and heavier than I expected it to be.
Plastics are very good, although the Polo's interiors exuded a more premium feel (my opinion which is not based on deep scrutiny).
Space - can seriously stand its own against a sedan.
Very responsive engine. Did not feel any lack of power during the TD.
Clutch and gearshift quality.

Not-Pluses:
Poor under thigh support front and back. No lumbar support. (I am 5'11"). Not sure how occupants will fare on long trips.
No seat height / telescopic steering adjustments = my friend was unable to find a driving position he liked
Audio setup better than Polo - Aux-in available but no USB. Steering mounted controls available.
Likely under-powered for the highway - definitely so in comparison to the Punto VGT and Polo 1.6 (not yet test-driven).
Low GC and skinnier tyres than Polo / Punto (EP).
Poor price-to-features score.


At the end of the day, while the Jazz feels decidedly bigger and superior overall to the competition, (some of) the missing features and the comfort levels (seats and suspenson) are aspects to ponder over.

Very nice assessment and I agree with you mostly.
few points which I dont agree uopn are
- Audio: The audio system in Jazz is the best among all the hatchbacks IMO.
(missing USB is a negative but sound quality is very good w.r.t OE standards).
- Front seats are huge and very nice. Same not true for the rear seats which lack support.
- Features list same or better than Polo but inferior to Punto
- The car can do cruise at high speeds thanks to the rev happy engine and the taller gearing. But downshifting is required for overtaking. I am not sure if you got a chance to test the car on open roads.
Have driven the Linea, not the Punto 90 HP. It is no scorcher but being diesel, in gear acceleration is good.
Have driven the Vento petrol and not the Polo 1.6, the car does not have a good low end and needs to revved for fast progress. It will be overall faster than the Jazz though lack the refinement.

For me, the negatives on the Jazz are -
Hard suspension, resulting in non-comfy ride at lower speeds at the rear.
Back seat has short seat squab, resulting in poorer under thigh support.
Poor price-to-features ratio.
Low end torque not good.

[spindoc]

@adimicra, my bad - the audio system is a definite plus. I inadvertently mentioned it as a non-plus!

[ajay_satpute]

Originally Posted by spindoc

Not-Pluses:
Low GC and skinnier tyres than Polo / Punto (EP).

Low GC of Jazz is not a problem actually. Jazz's suspension is on the harder side and thus does not crouch like the ANHC. So, you don't have to worry too much on this part. ANHC's suspension is one of the softest around and it scrapes almost every bump on the road, if not driven very carefully. So forget the GC problem. @adimicra can correct me if I am wrong.

Jazz is a gem of a car, and if price is not an issue for you, then please go for it. Its got everything in it, almost.

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

Low GC of Jazz is not a problem actually. Jazz's suspension is on the harder side and thus does not crouch like the ANHC. So, you don't have to worry too much on this part. ANHC's suspension is one of the softest around and it scrapes almost every bump on the road, if not driven very carefully. So forget the GC problem. @adimicra can correct me if I am wrong.

Jazz is a gem of a car, and if price is not an issue for you, then please go for it. Its got everything in it, almost.

Thanks buddy for pointing out.
GC for Jazz is par for the course and not a problem.
The hard suspension makes sure that the car does not squat much with load on the back.
I have a few big humps on my way and I have seen ANHC and even Linea's scrape regularly where I go just fine. So, not a problem but not a big plus as well. It is okie and should not be a deal breaker.

Tire Size for Jazz is 175/65R15 - it is not skinny but Polo HighLine and Punto EP provides thicker rubber. But, in Jazz, if you can convince the dealer, you can get the Michelin XM1 (which I got) - I dont think any other car comes with Michelins as OE tires. The tires are very good - low noise, good grip and enhances the ride comfort as well. So, those should make up for the one size less than the others.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

Low GC of Jazz is not a problem actually. Jazz's suspension is on the harder side and thus does not crouch like the ANHC. So, you don't have to worry too much on this part. ANHC's suspension is one of the softest around and it scrapes almost every bump on the road, if not driven very carefully. So forget the GC problem. @adimicra can correct me if I am wrong.

I agree with you about the GC being affected by the suspension more in ANHC than the Jazz. However, I still remind myself about the GC especially when I have to get off the road to allow traffic from the other side on narrow roads (now I dont do this at all) or if there is an object/ stone etc. It is not a deal breaker IMHO

[Autocop]

RavenAvi,

Going by your opening post and the kind of running you have indicated. I think you should consider Maruti Suzuki RITZ VXI/ZXI. The reasons being,

You get all Maruti Advantages (Piece of Mind in Service, Reliability, FE, Resale), plus,

- That 1.2 Litre Petrol engine delivers very good performance and FE.
- The Build Quality and Handling of RITZ is quite good.
- Overall you get fun to drive factor and almost all top end features (except a few) and peace of mind.

In the process you will save at least 1 lakh. I suggest you give it try. You shouldn't go wrong with this one.

[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by bigautobuff

Hi Ravenavi, I think you have not tried the vista-terra and the vista-90 lately. i own a vista terra and have completed the 10k mark happily. Also they are popular as the most powerful hatchback cars in India.

I am not impressed by Tata cars. Sorry friend, they are not for me.

Originally Posted by adimicra

best of luck mate! It reminds me of the research I had done during my car buying. If you get some more discount on the Jazz, it is sure worth it.
Polo - the main issue for me is the engines. The petrol is still okay, though unrefined and lacks outright power and can't hold a candle to the Ivtec of the Jazz or the K series of the Swift/Ritz.
The diesel is absolutely the worst diesel I have ever driven - the 1.3 Fiat MJD or the Ford 1.4 or the Renault/Nissan 1.5 dci engines are miles ahead.
The only variant of Polo worth considering IMO with your budget is the 1.6 petrol. Keep us posted. It will one heck of a car buying experience.

Here's how I look at things right now (if I finalise any of the listed) -

Polo - it would be the 1.6, and hopefully the yet-to-be-added steering controls one.

Punto - 75HP MJD (just because there's not much of a difference in performance between this and the 90HP one).

Jazz - Select, with front fogs and spoiler.

Yes it will be one heck of an experience alright!

Originally Posted by spindoc

Time for a quick review of the Jazz, again based on a short drive, wading through traffic.
Pluses:
Visibility all around - this was the first thing that struck me sitting inside the car.
Super low NVH levels - you don't hear a thing at idle even with the AC off! No noise or vibrations throughout our drive (< 50 kph).
Steering felt equal to or better than the Polo at city speeds. Not sure of high speed behaviour. I liked the Punto's steering better even at city speeds, although it is definitely heavier. My friend disagrees - he liked the Jazz's steering the most.
Feels solidly built - at least it was a lot sturdier and heavier than I expected it to be.
Plastics are very good, although the Polo's interiors exuded a more premium feel (my opinion which is not based on deep scrutiny).
Space - can seriously stand its own against a sedan.
Very responsive engine. Did not feel any lack of power during the TD.
Clutch and gearshift quality.

Not-Pluses:
Poor under thigh support front and back. No lumbar support. (I am 5'11"). Not sure how occupants will fare on long trips.
No seat height / telescopic steering adjustments = my friend was unable to find a driving position he liked.
Suspension is no match for the Punto / Polo.
Likely under-powered for the highway - definitely so in comparison to the Punto VGT and Polo 1.6 (not yet test-driven).
Low GC and skinnier tyres than Polo / Punto (EP).
Poor price-to-features ratio.

At the end of the day, while the Jazz feels decidedly bigger and superior overall to the competition, (some of) the missing features and the comfort levels (seats and suspenson) are aspects to ponder over.

Fantastic insightful look into the Jazz, spindoc.

It is surprisingly silent - you need to touch the accelerator to be sure that the car isn't idling! And yes, Honda's quality with the Jazz shines through. It's a really well-built, robust car with each screw fixed tight in its place. Although its very roomy with excellent all-round view, people might think of the Jazz as a thinly-welded (maybe) unsafe car, the car feels solid as iron. I think the steering feedback and the plastics quality is definitely better than Polo (specially panel gaps, which I feel will be a future cause of rattling in the already noisy Polo).

Suspension is definitely on the stiffer side and it is felt at low speeds, and this is where Punto blows away every competition thrown it's way, although I have a feeling that the Polo 1.6 will blow the Punto and the Jazz out of the water in the highway driving and outright acceleration department.

Punto scores in the features list too - definitely a longer set of features offered than the Jazz, and PLENTY in comparison to the Polo, which I feel is glaringly lacking in features.

I guess it finally comes to which is the better all-round package. With Brio looming in the horizon, I am guessing the guys at Honda will do the price cut to the Jazz sooner than later.

It's a no-brainer if it's petrol - Jazz fits most of the bills. If diesel - it will be a toss-up between the Punto and the Polo.

Originally Posted by Autocop

RavenAvi,

Going by your opening post and the kind of running you have indicated. I think you should consider Maruti Suzuki RITZ VXI/ZXI. The reasons being,

You get all Maruti Advantages (Piece of Mind in Service, Reliability, FE, Resale), plus,

- That 1.2 Litre Petrol engine delivers very good performance and FE.
- The Build Quality and Handling of RITZ is quite good.
- Overall you get fun to drive factor and almost all top end features (except a few) and peace of mind.

In the process you will save at least 1 lakh. I suggest you give it try. You shouldn't go wrong with this one.

I have been in a Ritz, and have also driven it for a few kms. I don't like it's looks - too similar to the Swift from the front, and the rear looks like someone has given it a mighty invisible slap. I have read that it's engine is fantastic and delivers great FE, and the car seemed very spacious, but it's the looks and the shape of the car which is a big turn-off. If I had a choice, I d rather wait for the 2011 Swift/Dzire over Ritz.

No offence I hope, friend. It's a great recommendation but the Ritz is not for me.

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

I am not impressed by Tata cars. Sorry friend, they are not for me.




Here's how I look at things right now (if I finalise any of the listed) -

Polo - it would be the 1.6, and hopefully the yet-to-be-added steering controls one.

Punto - 75HP MJD (just because there's not much of a difference in performance between this and the 90HP one).

Jazz - Select, with front fogs and spoiler.

Yes it will be one heck of an experience alright!




Fantastic insightful look into the Jazz, spindoc.

It is surprisingly silent - you need to touch the accelerator to be sure that the car isn't idling! And yes, Honda's quality with the Jazz shines through. It's a really well-built, robust car with each screw fixed tight in its place. Although its very roomy with excellent all-round view, people might think of the Jazz as a thinly-welded (maybe) unsafe car, the car feels solid as iron. I think the steering feedback and the plastics quality is definitely better than Polo (specially panel gaps, which I feel will be a future cause of rattling in the already noisy Polo).

Suspension is definitely on the stiffer side and it is felt at low speeds, and this is where Punto blows away every competition thrown it's way, although I have a feeling that the Polo 1.6 will blow the Punto and the Jazz out of the water in the highway driving and outright acceleration department.

Punto scores in the features list too - definitely a longer set of features offered than the Jazz, and PLENTY in comparison to the Polo, which I feel is glaringly lacking in features.

I guess it finally comes to which is the better all-round package. With Brio looming in the horizon, I am guessing the guys at Honda will do the price cut to the Jazz sooner than later.

It's a no-brainer if it's petrol - Jazz fits most of the bills. If diesel - it will be a toss-up between the Punto and the Polo.




I have been in a Ritz, and have also driven it for a few kms. I don't like it's looks - too similar to the Swift from the front, and the rear looks like someone has given it a mighty invisible slap. I have read that it's engine is fantastic and delivers great FE, and the car seemed very spacious, but it's the looks and the shape of the car which is a big turn-off. If I had a choice, I d rather wait for the 2011 Swift/Dzire over Ritz.

No offence I hope, friend. It's a great recommendation but the Ritz is not for me.

Man, you are spot on with your analysis.
Just some confusion - are you considering the Polo diesel or 1.6?
I would not recommend the Polo diesel for sure.

It is difficult to get a test drive for Polo 1.6 but you can try the Vento petrol to get a feel.

I would not recommend the Punto, there are too many shortcomings. After sitting in the Jazz/Polo, I don't think you will like to sit in the Punto. Just my 2 cents. Best of luck!

[theexperthand]

Originally Posted by adimicra

I would not recommend the Punto, there are too many shortcomings. After sitting in the Jazz/Polo, I don't think you will like to sit in the Punto. Just my 2 cents. Best of luck!

Agree that there are some shortcomings, but which cars do not have them? It is more like choosing the car which suits your preferences to the T. I immensely like Jazz - in fact, like it more than Honda City, and if there was a diesel version, the car could have made a strong contender when I was in market for a diesel hatch.

When it comes to diesel, I do not think there is any other hatch which can offer the unparalleled ride and handling offered by Punto, and the interiors may not be a match for Jazz, but certainly is much better than the likes of Etios.
Sorry, no offence - I agree that there are few rough edges but I certainly do not think the interiors are that bad that you will not consider sitting inside a Punto once you TD the Jazz\Polo.

[Autocop]

I saw your dislike for Swift, hence thought RITZ would be the best choice given your constraints/criterion. Owning and Maintaining a diesel would be expensive and sheer waste of resources for the kind of running indicated. Suggest you look at Petrol only. Good luck!

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

I have been in a Ritz, and have also driven it for a few kms. I don't like it's looks - too similar to the Swift from the front, and the rear looks like someone has given it a mighty invisible slap. I have read that it's engine is fantastic and delivers great FE, and the car seemed very spacious, but it's the looks and the shape of the car which is a big turn-off. If I had a choice, I d rather wait for the 2011 Swift/Dzire over Ritz.

No offence I hope, friend. It's a great recommendation but the Ritz is not for me.