[androdev]

This is just a collection of nearly more than six months of wishy-washy efforts at buying my next car. I believe I am close to making a choice and just wanted to share my experiences - not with any great intention of helping other members but just to 'let it out' because none of my family members would have any of these car nonsense :-)

I was happy with a 2007 Laura L&K for about four years and then started the faint itch to buy a new-car. I was really keen on buying a large sedan like Superb that is comfort oriented and very passenger friendly - and I started this thread:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sedans...t-tdi-tsi.html

I tried to swap my Laura for a new Superb but then I did not like the offer and it seemed an expensive switch. I never test drove Superb. Then my Laura met with an accident and I incurred decent amount of loss in disposing it off. I realized I nearly lost ~12 lakhs considering only the buy vs resale price in just four years (excluding the service, fuel bills). So thought buying these 20+ lakhs cars is a bad financial habit and decided to put the car-purchase on hold.

Here is the accident thread:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...-accident.html

The itch started again. This time wanted to defend myself against crazy depreciation. So started looking at used car market. Bangalore is hopeless in terms of choice and pricing and I never really made much progress in this direction. Then started the "corporate edition" trend - BMW was too 'stripped' when it came to corporate edition (relative to my previous ride Laura L&K) and eventually Audi A4 corporate edition seemed promising as it had enough features to call it a luxury car. The test drive was so-so but seemed like a decent compromise:

Here is my audi experience:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...0-minutes.html

Somewhere in between and in a not-so-completely-unrelated way, I forced my father-in-law to buy a BMW 520d and I get to drive it a lot. How did I force someone who hated cars and drives a Corolla that is well over 1 Lakh KMs? I paid for the car and wanted to keep it with me if he decided not to take it. My gamble worked and he took the car and paid me most of it. Of course I was the subject of lot of jokes (drive's FIL's bmw!!) at work but I am a certified car junkie and I have done crazier things than driving FIL's bmw. My FIL is a malayalee and I call him 'dad' (if you are a malayalee you will know that this is their culture) and it makes it even more weird. Also I have two boys (4 and 2 yrs) so we camp a lot at in-laws for baby-sitting support. Okay, mother-in-law is a good cook :-)
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...laura-l-k.html
So far so good. I was still hunting for that elusive sedan that will be a good replacement for my Laura. And then the ground-clearance nuclear bomb exploded on me:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2589848

Went to yercaud for a weekend with colleagues. Started back today early at 5am to reach Bangalore early. In middle of the Yercaud-Salem road - I was following an Indica. Indica cleared a 5-6" stone that was on the road. It being a hairpin bend, I did not have enough gap so did not see the stone and just followed the India. Boom! Car transmission error came "transmission failure, call BMW mobile servie". It was 530am I guess. AT fluid is leaking. Parked the car and have gone through the drill of calling insurance, etc. and now waiting for the tow truck to come....

So told myself the following rule that I should never break:
"Ground clearance is the most important feature in India and I must have it as much as I can"

So I had to bury all my luxury sedan fantasies and be realistic about what would suit my driving style. It is not much of a style, just that I try to blip over the speed humps and bad patches without a lot of caution. As a blessing in disguise, my options have become extremely limited given that I am looking for a combination of luxury, ground-clearance and sedan-like driving experience. Skoda Yeti and BMW X1.

Test drove Skoda Yeti. I was really hoping Yeti will do it for me. While it is a good car, I had to give it a skip for two reasons. It is not L&K and if you are used to L&K spec of Skoda you would notice the difference quickly but I was willing to overlook this aspect as the car was still fairly cozy. The drive was the real deal breaker for me. The clutch and transmission did not make me feel at home. The seating was a bit too upright for my sedan-trained style. If it came in L&K DSG trim, it would have been a strong contender.
More comments here:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post2654656


Next up is BMW X1 and the most promising so far. Here is the detailed test-drive report on BMW X1.

I have told the BMW staff that I need a "long" test drive covering a particular route I had in mind that is nearly 40+ KM that has at least a dozen of bangalore-signature speed breakers that have scraped a lot of cars I drove in the past. You know the kind of speed breakers where the top portion is full of chips, cuts and erosion due to vehicles scraping. I did the test drive with a friend and fellow t-bhp member @diffsoft who was kind enough to accompany me. As usual my family refused to come along for a test drive. Here is the report:

In the showroom:
1. Given all the criticism of the X1 looks, it is not a bad looker. Of course the front-grill is a bit large. But I guess on Indian roads with xenons options it can't be that bad. Side and rear profiles look pretty decent. Over all unless you are fixated on the large grill, you will grow to like it for what it is.
2. The front-arm-rest looks cheap and tells the rear passengers that they are in a budget BMW. The back of front-seats also have large plastic panels adding to this budget feel.
3. Except for the i-drive all other stuff like AC, radio, etc. control buttons lack any richness. But they don't feel cheap either. Just plain.
4. Top-end has a thicker steering wheel with a metal arch - where as Corp edition has a simpler steering wheel.
5. Instrument cluster is also without any bling. Clean and plain but no bling factor.
6. Key has to be inserted into the slot (like Passat) and can't be kept in the pocket. I like this a lot compared to carrying a key not knowing what to do with it :-)
7. No lumbar support even in top-end - not even manual. I am so thankful for this. I never ever used lumbar support and all the lumbar mechanicals inside the seat messed up my back comfort.
8. Unlike the 5 series, the seats and steering wheel size in X1 are just perfect my build (5'7") - they could have made the seats a bit more padded but I am happy with them. Both front seats gets electric seat adjustment.
9. Lacks front airbag off button. Will have tough time with my son who like the child-seat mounted in the front for ca-pilot view.
10. Rear seats are "HARD" - make that rock hard! But the leg space is plenty - better than Laura I feel. The seating is low - will work alright for S/M/L people (OK for my family) but XL people will find it uncomfortable I think.
11. Panoramic sunroof is cool. No rear sun-blinds. 3-series has these.

On the road:

1. Noisy. Very. Poor NVH. When I pressed the voice-command button, I could barely hear what the lady said and the lady never understood what I said. 5-Series in comparison is super quiet. The hood doesn't have padding and even wheel-arches also do not have padding I think.

2. Rear comfort is bad - hard seats and hard suspension. But by adopting your driving style, you can avoid annoying the passengers. Be gentle on bad roads.

3. Did not touch a single speed breaker in my entire 40+ KM stretch that was carefully selected to go over some of the most painful speed breakers I had to deal with in Bangalore. Met the most critical criteria of a Bangalorean.

4. Awesome to drive. Very sedan like. Seating is perfect (unlike Yeti which I felt was too upright). Steering is just the right size for me and it is very confidence inspiring. 5-Series is more like a car on rails. X1 drives like a bit on the edge - quick, hard ride and a bit lighter. I prefer the 5-series but I really want high GC and this car is the best compromise I can afford without sacrificing the basic driving dynamics. Driver involvement (or something like that) is at a different level compared to A4 (CVT), C-class, Yeti (Manual) that I test drove in the last few months. I was not surprised having used to the 5-series. After the 5-series accident that was terrible to digest including a lousy roadside assistance and one-month-long repair period - the drive from the workshop to home after the delivery of the car made me forget all the ordeal I went through. Drive is BMW's #1 strength.

5. Steering is heavy at lower speeds. It is funny - you drive fast and brake hard and come to a stand still and then try to change lanes - well surprise! - it is a different steering :-) But absolutely not a deal breaker for me. I drive Corsa with a heavy steering and I am perfectly OK with steering. For what it lacks at low speeds, more than makes up for it at high speeds.

6. Horn - boy! It is really hard and I feel this is more painful than the steering. I was driving the corp-edition. Top-end steering is different, I hope the horn is better there.

In summary, this car meets "luxury, sedan-like, good GC" criteria more than anything else on the market.

Now there is the little matter of finances :-) Top-end X1 is working out to be 37.5L on road after 2.5L discount on ex-showroom price. With BSI, it will be nearly 40L and I was always trying not to cross 30L. I might chicken out of the deal due to finances but I am nearly convinced that I found the car I want.

Thank you for reading this far!

[DevilsCry]

Good article! Kept me interested through out

"Car nonsense" Lol! That's also what I face. No one in my family wants to hear me blabbering about cars

After Laura, I can see only four SUVs as upgrade-
1. BMW X1 (which you will most probably buy)
2. Audi Q3 (no idea when it is coming)
3. Ford Endeavour
4. Skoda Yeti (which you have ruled out)

2. From reading on internet, I would expect Q3 to have ride and handling to be like an upgraded/bigger version of Skoda Yeti. Ride at rear should be a bit on softer side compared to X3 (only assuming, not facts).

3. I've often heard Fords to be poor man's BMW. I've no idea how Endeavour compares with X1. If you are enthusiastic enough, you could TD an Endeavour though I'm more inclined to X3, only because of the BMW badge.

[PM - B]

androdev,

Your muse makes interesting reading. Good you found the correct car.
Look forward to more developments. And finally the purchase.

[mayankjha1806]

Originally Posted by androdev

3. Did not touch a single speed breaker in my entire 40+ KM stretch that was carefully selected to go over some of the most painful speed breakers I had to deal with in Bangalore. Met the most critical criteria of a Bangalorean.

Glad you brought this up, when we were test driving the cars one of the favorite speed breakers was the one on Sarjapur road (Near the railway line). I might be wrong but in my entire driving time in Bangalore i have not seen a worse one then this one.

Its an absolute killer when it comes to height, and almost all sedans scrape this one if you are driving at any speed above 5.

Do test drive on this speed breaker and see if it scrapes, or if you have already driven on it then i am sure it wont scrape anywhere.

[Akshay1234]

Androdev, seems like you really like the X1, and it is a great car no doubt especially the Exclusive variant. The seats I am pretty sure do have lumbar support but the buttons are at the corners and not next to the other seat adjuster buttons.

It would be a good buy for you, but I suggest you wait for the Q3. It should be launched in a couple of months and might just be a better overall package than the X1. In that much of time the X1 too may get the upgraded motor that your 5 runs on.

If you are in a hurry then go ahead and pick it up you definitely won't regret it.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

Androdev, seems like you really like the X1, and it is a great car no doubt especially the Exclusive variant. The seats I am pretty sure do have lumbar support but the buttons are at the corners and not next to the other seat adjuster buttons.

It would be a good buy for you, but I suggest you wait for the Q3. It should be launched in a couple of months and might just be a better overall package than the X1. In that much of time the X1 too may get the upgraded motor that your 5 runs on.

If you are in a hurry then go ahead and pick it up you definitely won't regret it.

Interesting. Even the sales person told me it doesn't have lumbar support. Will check it for sure. I would have preferred without all those mechanicals inside the backrest though.

I am not at all in a rush :-) but the most significant development has been that I finally found a car that suits my requirement. With X1, I will just be compromising on the ride comfort at the rear and spare tyre. It is a clear winner in all other respects.

I don't mind waiting for Q3 - but my fair guess would be:

1. ride-comfort vs driving pleasure (similar to A4 and 3 series).
2. Q3 top-end will only come in quattro guise - I don't need quattro and don't want to pay more for it.
3. Considering I have test driven Yeti - Q3 will not feel as sedan-like as X1. Some might actually prefer it this way, but I just want a sedan with good GC. And X1 is just that!
4. Not sure of Q3 spec when compared to BMW's corona-xenons, wide-screen i-drive, panoramic sunroof - industry best.
5. Spare-tyre of Q3 would be a huge advantage over X1 - for everything else X1 might actually be better.
6. I like the inside and outside of BMW range compared to Audi range - just personal preference.

I might actually wait for Q3 - but all this noise about additional tax on diesel cars is a concern. The amount of tax I pay in Bangalore is insane!

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by androdev

Interesting. Even the sales person told me it doesn't have lumbar support. Will check it for sure. I would have preferred without all those mechanicals inside the backrest though.

I am not at all in a rush :-) but the most significant development has been that I finally found a car that suits my requirement. With X1, I will just be compromising on the ride comfort at the rear and spare tyre. It is a clear winner in all other respects.

I don't mind waiting for Q3 - but my fair guess would be:

1. ride-comfort vs driving pleasure (similar to A4 and 3 series).
2. Q3 top-end will only come in quattro guise - I don't need quattro and don't want to pay more for it.
3. Considering I have test driven Yeti - Q3 will not feel as sedan-like as X1. Some might actually prefer it this way, but I just want a sedan with good GC. And X1 is just that!
4. Not sure of Q3 spec when compared to BMW's corona-xenons, wide-screen i-drive, panoramic sunroof - industry best.
5. Spare-tyre of Q3 would be a huge advantage over X1 - for everything else X1 might actually be better.
6. I like the inside and outside of BMW range compared to Audi range - just personal preference.

I might actually wait for Q3 - but all this noise about additional tax on diesel cars is a concern. The amount of tax I pay in Bangalore is insane!

Ok lumbar support might not actually be there. I remember the X1 having similar seats to the 3 hence made that assumption. IMO a car at this price better have lumbar support.

-I honestly don't think its fair to come to assumptions about the Q3 until one of us takes a drive in it.
-It will come with the 177bhp diesel from Audi, and a DSG most likely. Possibly multitronic.
-The ride will be better than the X1 though the handling I'm sure will be close but may not better it.
-It will have xenons, MMI, and a panoramic sunroof don't you worry.
-This is a big segment and expect Audi to bring their A-Game.

It seems to me like you are in a bit of a hurry to just finish off your purchase

[androdev]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

Ok lumbar support might not actually be there. I remember the X1 having similar seats to the 3 hence made that assumption. IMO a car at this price better have lumbar support.

-I honestly don't think its fair to come to assumptions about the Q3 until one of us takes a drive in it.
-It will come with the 177bhp diesel from Audi, and a DSG most likely. Possibly multitronic.
-The ride will be better than the X1 though the handling I'm sure will be close but may not better it.
-It will have xenons, MMI, and a panoramic sunroof don't you worry.
-This is a big segment and expect Audi to bring their A-Game.

It seems to me like you are in a bit of a hurry to just finish off your purchase

No hurry at all. Just excited that I found something that ticked most of my requirements. I was really frustrated with my liking for sedans and the need for higher GC. I love driving the 5 - but I am always apprehensive about the road conditions especially when I am going out of town on a holiday, etc. Finding X1 was very calming :-)

I can surely wait for Q3 and I may actually end up doing it. Let me try to get some details from the dealer here. We had a bad experience with the Audi dealership here and that is also working against it but would certainly like to give Q3 a shot if it has got the goods to deliver.

[PlatzdaTurbo]

If news is to be believed , model vs model the Q3 is supposed to have a little more gadgetry compared to the X1. I mean even the so called 'corp ed' of the Q3 might have a bit more to it compared to the X1 corp ed. Loaded variants, while both cars would be similarly loaded, the Q3 might have a few more bells & whistles like Quattro, a better music system and (this i am sure of) substantially better quality of the interiors and be that much correspondingly dearer.
But now ill tell you where the problem lies. You dont need the quattro, on the other hand you wouldn't mind all the bells & whistles considering you are upgrading from an L & K spec Laura. My guess is, if you want the gadgetry etc. then you will have to take quattro along with it. All the tech would come in the higher variant of the Q3 and that means it will come with AWD. While you will get a 'corp ed' FWD lower variant too, you will have to compromise on a few features here & there. They might give you xenons and leather but that apart it might be stripped similarly to the X1 corp.
So its basically a choice of what to compromise on ? A bit of gadgetry and go for a cheaper variant or take the extra baggage (quattro) that comes with the tech on the higher variant.
Good luck

(Just read the above posts so to clarify, the FWD variant will NOT come with DSG)

[v&v]

Nice observation androdev.

I too did a TD of X1. Must say the drive makes you ignore all other things. Its fun to drive in DS mode.


My major concern were run flat tyres , no spare tyre, smaller boot 420L. Also the front overhang has a GC of 145 mm.

Will X1 with run flats do a 4 to 5k kms drives on our highways?

[androdev]

Originally Posted by PlatzdaTurbo

If news is to be believed , model vs model the Q3 is supposed to have a little more gadgetry compared to the X1. I mean even the so called 'corp ed' of the Q3 might have a bit more to it compared to the X1 corp ed. Loaded variants, while both cars would be similarly loaded, the Q3 might have a few more bells & whistles like Quattro, a better music system and (this i am sure of) substantially better quality of the interiors and be that much correspondingly dearer.
But now ill tell you where the problem lies. You dont need the quattro, on the other hand you wouldn't mind all the bells & whistles considering you are upgrading from an L & K spec Laura. My guess is, if you want the gadgetry etc. then you will have to take quattro along with it. All the tech would come in the higher variant of the Q3 and that means it will come with AWD. While you will get a 'corp ed' FWD lower variant too, you will have to compromise on a few features here & there. They might give you xenons and leather but that apart it might be stripped similarly to the X1 corp.
So its basically a choice of what to compromise on ? A bit of gadgetry and go for a cheaper variant or take the extra baggage (quattro) that comes with the tech on the higher variant.
Good luck

(Just read the above posts so to clarify, the FWD variant will NOT come with DSG)

Thanks Plazda! I agree with you. If I want DSG and all the gadgets, it will be quattro trim and it will surely be more expensive. Also the quattro on Q3 is haldex (transverse engine layout) so it is not the legendary torsen stuff.

If I was only looking at X1 corp edition, waiting for Q3 would make a lot of sense. For the same reason, I was once considering A4 corp edition because it was better equipped in its entry-level trim.

Btw, would you know by when we can expect the spec and availability of Q3 in India?

Originally Posted by v&v

Nice observation androdev.

I too did a TD of X1. Must say the drive makes you ignore all other things. Its fun to drive in DS mode.


My major concern were run flat tyres , no spare tyre, smaller boot 420L. Also the front overhang has a GC of 145 mm.

Will X1 with run flats do a 4 to 5k kms drives on our highways?

The current generation run flats are quite acceptable when it comes to tire life and ride comfort - relatively speaking given the price point of the segment. But the main issue is lack of spare during long drives. Within the city - run flats are excellent. You will never have a flat-tyre breakdown situation. Drive on and get the tire fixed at your convenience.

[PlatzdaTurbo]

Originally Posted by androdev

Btw, would you know by when we can expect the spec and availability of Q3 in India?

I had talked to some-one from Audi Mumbai before the Expo and he'd told me that the bookings would be open anytime within a month after the expo. I guess they might have more specific information by now but i haven't talked to them since.
Specs,trims,variants etc. would be available with your local Audi dealer by now IMO. Again , cant be sure myself but its worth a try.
But yea, its a known fact that in the specs department they are offering the 2.0 TDI in the 177hp trim for the Quattro and 140hp for the FWD.
The petrol variant would be a 210hp 2.0T ,IIRC.

[.anshuman]

Here is my take on X1: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...perienced.html

If you want a car with higher GC go for the X1, but if you want it to be as rugged as a crossover forget it. You will never like to hit potholes with the low pro Runflats, even if you hit them the suspension will transmit the feel into the car. AFAIK there is no underbody protection, the front bumper is even lower than some Sedans. You will have to slow down for rough roads where in your Laura you would not have thought twice about crossing at speed.

But it is fun to drive, Handling is excellent, steering is brilliant, Engine though loud is punchy but gearbox is dull in Sport and Manual modes.

I'd recommend you to wait for the Audi Q3.

[Berry]

Originally Posted by androdev

Next up is BMW X1 and the most promising so far. Here is the detailed test-drive report on BMW X1......

- During my hunt for a luxury car I started with the X1 and ended up buying the 530d . Have you considered the absence of the rear AC vents in it as being a Laura L&K owner you or the passengers in your family must have got used to them, (I personally rejected this car because of this reason).

- Interiors are quite dated for a car launched at the end of 2010, even the Passat and soon to be launched Q3 look modern.

- The X1 is due for a midlife facelift too, so watch out for that.

The price tag of the Exclusive edition is way too high, one can even leap to 520d which has a better gearbox and is more efficient too and obviously much more feature laden than the X1 (barring the iDrive screen size), you might consider that too.

Originally Posted by DevilsCry

I've often heard Fords to be poor man's BMW. I've no idea how Endeavour compares with X1. If you are enthusiastic enough, you could TD an Endeavour though I'm more inclined to X3, only because of the BMW badge.

The Fords available in India are actually not the original American Fords which are pleasure to drive around and have a great on road character.

Even the Ford Endeavour is a Mazda as you may know it. Funnily though but the Ford Endeavour is the official "ride me and I shall break your bones" SUV of India and so I would not recommend this to Androdev . I have it in my garage and have been experiencing it for the past two and a half years . Nothing luxurious about it and the new one looks like a van from the back (Why did they remove the spoiler ?)

[androdev]

Originally Posted by Berry

- During my hunt for a luxury car I started with the X1 and ended up buying the 530d . Have you considered the absence of the rear AC vents in it as being a Laura L&K owner you or the passengers in your family must have got used to them, (I personally rejected this car because of this reason).

- Interiors are quite dated for a car launched at the end of 2010, even the Passat and soon to be launched Q3 look modern.

- The X1 is due for a midlife facelift too, so watch out for that.

The price tag of the Exclusive edition is way too high, one can even leap to 520d which has a better gearbox and is more efficient too and obviously much more feature laden than the X1 (barring the iDrive screen size), you might consider that too.

In Bangalore, there is a difference of 10 Lakhs between the on-road price of X1 exclusive and 520D. Also after the recent breakdown experience with our 5 series, I have decided to buy a car with proper ground clearance. And X3 is even more expensive than 520D so don't have budget for it. X1 facelift would be cool but it is take me well into 2013. I am OK with the lack of rear AC vents and plain jane dash and instruments.

Following are the main issues that are stopping me from buying X1 immediately:

1. I am hearing that GC of X1 is only marginally better than 3 series and it also has a low slung front bumper. None of the BMWs have proper underbody protection. This could be a real deal breaker.

2. Harsh ride at the back.

Some more issues (not deal breakers):
1. Yellow corona rings - well I don't want to buy a top-end car in 2012 and still get yellow corona rings.
2. Gearshift knob - feels old for 2012 especially considering how amazing the new one is.
3. Unlike current 3, X1 doesn't have a space saver and with its limited cargo space, difficult to carry a full-wheel spare. I bought a full wheel spare for the 5 series we have. If anyone is driving far from the city, a spare tire is an absolute must no matter what BMW tells you about run flats.
4. Front passenger airbag off is a key requirement for me (to put the child seat in the front when needed)
5. Even at 40L otr it feels a bit 'budget-ish" in spite of having all the goodies like xenon, panoramic sunroof, nice i-drive, etc.

All said and done, its biggest advantage is it truly drives like a sedan. I am not sure if there are any other high-GC vehicles that can come close to X1 when it comes to driving like a sedan.