[anachronix]

You mentioned that you compared lot of cars to the S and you finally went in for the Rapid, I thought you liked the dynamics to be fairly close to the S and decided to go with the Rapid! Sorry if I misunderstood your post!

Originally Posted by Mi10

Dai ! Where did i state that ?, I have already said Rapid Under steers a Lot !
I told i TD'ed all cars recently, hence i have a direct back to back comparison with my S ! And None of them lived up to it, incl the Rapid, the T-Jet and the Polo GT TSI !

Thats objective, yes! But if you are comparing with cars that really set the benchmark with dynamics in sub-10 Lakh segment, they dont stand a chance in my list!

A Feeling of Satisfaction cannot be valued !
In that sense, yes a good handling car can never be replaced ! But from a purely objective POV, an average / above average handling car its not a deal breaker !

Why are we talking about an average joe, the OP wants a good handling car to replace his 1.6S! The Rapid does not carry the Skoda DNA for tank like build and handling, if we are talking about the Laura TSi then yes thats the car to buy!

Handling is never overhyped, the problem is for average joe to feel it and appreciate it.

I ve owned Hyundai's Suzuki's Ford's Renault's and now Skoda. So i am talking from actual ownership perspective here ! I ve lived with these for a minimum of 1 year, so handling is a overhyped thing for an average joe !

You cant be more wrong if you think the S dont stand a chance in the GQ against the torque monsters that handle like a boat on the highways! Not every road is straight & flat on the GQ, the Tambaram bye pass for an example is straight but the old/new Verna cannot runaway with the swaying rear on the bumpy surface of that road, but the S or even a Figo can...!

While the testament is there ! Whether it keeps up or not is dependent on the type of road !
Fiesta is hard to beat in Traffic laden highways or Fast Ghats section. But on a typical straight GQ's, S would struggle to even catch up with Modern Gen oil Burners - (Includes Old/New Verna CRDI) as well !

I had these 2 cars in my garage for close to an year, but not the TJet... it was the terribly underpowered 1.4 Linea in my garage. Both were closely matched when it comes to handling, those days it was that 1.4L motor that used to give up the fight to the S, the TJet will only make things more exciting!

Yeah i Agree ! What i dont agree is T-Jet handles better than the S ! Maybe our driving styles are different ! But i am just telling whatever i felt after driving.
Anyhow the OP has said he wants only a Petrol car, so no point in comparing with Diesel Cars

Yes

BTW, come over for Tea, we are just 1 Building away !

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

A little OT, but it seems posters here could give a quick answer.
My son is looking to buy his first car, and has access to a very well kept 2008 Civic for Rs 5.5 lakhs. Should he buy that or go for a new Classic 1.6 by paying a couple of lakhs more? He is a good driver and values the ride/handling/NVH factors a lot.

My order of preference is chassis>engine>reliability>aesthetic appeal>features
If your son is of the same mindset, then forget the Civic and go for the Fiesta since the Civic's cornering abilities aren't that brilliant.
Again, something I always recommend, the Mitsubishi Cedia. For 5.5, you will easily get one in brilliant condition
Oh and the one thing both the Mitsu and Honda have over the Fiesta, is aftermarket support unlimited possibilities

[Mi10]

Originally Posted by anachronix

You mentioned that you compared lot of cars to the S and you finally went in for the Rapid, I thought you liked the dynamics to be fairly close to the S and decided to go with the Rapid! Sorry if I misunderstood your post!

The Rapid was brought for a different set of requirements - A Fast, Safe Diesel Sedan for family commuting !
I loved the new Fiesta TDCI, but the rear seat was too cramped to win a family vote !

Originally Posted by anachronix

Why are we talking about an average joe, the OP wants a good handling car to replace his 1.6S! The Rapid does not carry the Skoda DNA for tank like build and handling, if we are talking about the Laura TSi then yes thats the car to buy!

I think you grossly misunderstood here ! I never suggested the Rapid to OP except for my first post (when it was unclear if he was open to Diesel )
And
I never claimed Rapid to be Tank or a Tank maker !
And
I have already said Rapid is no where near to Fiesta or T-Jet in Handling
And
Laura is a whole segment above Rapid, Fiesta, T-Jet ! Its build being superior than these is no surprise ! SKoda's (incl the Laura) are 'good' handlers and offer superb brakes and ride quality. However, they still are far from your Handling 'Benchmarks'

Originally Posted by anachronix

The Rapid does not carry the Skoda DNA for tank like build and handling,

Any specific facts or its your opinion ?

Since the Rapid shares the Platform with lot many cars from VAG group, it would be interesting to know why VW brought down their Build Quality ! (Esp when Rapid shares 75% Parts with Polo / Vento )

Originally Posted by anachronix

Handling is never overhyped, the problem is for average joe to feel it and appreciate it.

We are all average Joe one way or the other !
With all our 'enthusiast' tags, tell me how many of us put into action ? I am not asking everyone to drive like their tail is on Fire, but there are lot of restrictions and compromises one has to come through !
And Who doesn't love a good Handling car ? Tell me please ?
Everyone loves, but did the sales of S shoot up sky high when it was launched ? No ! It was perhaps the Lowest sold Fiesta Trim !

Hence i repeat, unless there is a specific requirement for it, Handling in our cities is much much over-hyped !

Originally Posted by anachronix

You cant be more wrong if you think the S dont stand a chance in the GQ against the torque monsters that handle like a boat on the highways! Not every road is straight & flat on the GQ, the Tambaram bye pass for an example is straight but the old/new Verna cannot runaway with the swaying rear on the bumpy surface of that road, but the S or even a Figo can...!

I am not thinking ! I am writing down whatever i have witnessed ! I must be lying unless i am unbearably slow with the S and insanely fast with the Rapid !
May be a drive together with your S should clear up

Originally Posted by anachronix

I had these 2 cars in my garage for close to an year, but not the TJet... it was the terribly underpowered 1.4 Linea in my garage. Both were closely matched when it comes to handling, those days it was that 1.4L motor that used to give up the fight to the S, the TJet will only make things more exciting!

In that case, you are in a better position of offering advice over T-jet. My experiences are limited to TD as far as the T-Jet is concerned !

[anachronix]

Originally Posted by Mi10

The Rapid was brought for a different set of requirements - A Fast, Safe Diesel Sedan for family commuting !
I loved the new Fiesta TDCI, but the rear seat was too cramped to win a family vote !

So you dont want him to buy a Rapid?

I think you grossly misunderstood here ! I never suggested the Rapid to OP except for my first post (when it was unclear if he was open to Diesel )
And
I never claimed Rapid to be Tank or a Tank maker !
And
I have already said Rapid is no where near to Fiesta or T-Jet in Handling
And
Laura is a whole segment above Rapid, Fiesta, T-Jet ! Its build being superior than these is no surprise !

Yes! The Skodas are, but not the badge engineered Rapid in India!

SKoda's (incl the Laura) are 'good' handlers and offer superb brakes and ride quality. However, they still are far from your Handling 'Benchmarks'

If you got a chance to drive the Euro made Polo vs the Indian, you can feel the difference. I was excited about the Polo coming to India and was disappointed when I drove it. Its a brilliant chassis, but VAG didnt care much about getting the dynamics right in India! Here, people love feather lite steerings for a start...

Any specific facts or its your opinion ?

Since the Rapid shares the Platform with lot many cars from VAG group, it would be interesting to know why VW brought down their Build Quality ! (Esp when Rapid shares 75% Parts with Polo / Vento )

I am not an average Joe who needs a car that can commute from Point A to B. I have specific requirements when it comes to cars and I dont buy one if it doesnt tick all the boxes for me.

I waited, waited and then bought a 1.6S for the second time!

We are all average Joe one way or the other !
With all our 'enthusiast' tags, tell me how many of us put into action ? I am not asking everyone to drive like their tail is on Fire, but there are lot of restrictions and compromises one has to come through !
And Who doesn't love a good Handling car ? Tell me please ?
Everyone loves, but did the sales of S shoot up sky high when it was launched ? No ! It was perhaps the Lowest sold Fiesta Trim !

You said its overhyped in GQ or I read it wrong in your earlier posts?

Hence i repeat, unless there is a specific requirement for it, Handling in our cities is much much over-hyped !

Lets talk about that over a tea at Green Apple!

May be a drive together with your S should clear up

[Mi10]

Originally Posted by anachronix

So you dont want him to buy a Rapid?

^ this is


I said, after knowing that the OP is a Petrol head, i never suggested him the Rapid TDI !!
Neither I am a Fan of VW NA Petrols nor i own one to suggest those anyway !!

Originally Posted by anachronix

If you got a chance to drive the Euro made Polo vs the Indian, you can feel the difference. I was excited about the Polo coming to India and was disappointed when I drove it. Its a brilliant chassis, but VAG didnt care much about getting the dynamics right in India! Here, people love feather lite steerings for a start...

ok i didn't know this, I was under impression the Polo / Fabia was spec to spec with the International one !

Originally Posted by anachronix

I am not an average Joe who needs a car that can commute from Point A to B. I have specific requirements when it comes to cars and I dont buy one if it doesnt tick all the boxes for me.

I waited, waited and then bought a 1.6S for the second time!

Precisely the point ! Even a hard core enthusiast like you, become an average Joe for sometime when you sold your first S and brought a commuter ! May be Because of x reason. That x can be anything ! Maintenance, Running costs, issues with car, whatever !

Originally Posted by anachronix

You said its overhyped in GQ or I read it wrong in your earlier posts?

Yes you read it right the first time ! Its GQ, in today's traffic no car can be pushed to understand the dynamics !

Originally Posted by anachronix

Lets talk about that over a tea at Green Apple!

Done ! Over to PM !

[anachronix]

Easy dude, I was pulling your leg

Originally Posted by Mi10

^ this is


I said, after knowing that the OP is a Petrol head, i never suggested him the Rapid TDI !!
Neither I am a Fan of VW NA Petrols nor i own one to suggest those anyway !!

The Fabia was..!

ok i didn't know this, I was under impression the Polo / Fabia was spec to spec with the International one !

One mistake I did was to buy a Jazz for my better half and some unusual turn of events ensured that I use the Jazz for my regular commute to work. Got sick of it and sold it when it was close to an year old and waited for over 6 months before I decided my next purchase.

The commuter or workhorse at home is an humble little Figo, but it will not be humble anymore in another week's time if everything goes well

Precisely the point ! Even a hard core enthusiast like you, become an average Joe for sometime when you sold your first S and brought a commuter ! May be Because of x reason. That x can be anything ! Maintenance, Running costs, issues with car, whatever !

From my experince and IMO, handling is never overhyped anywhere! Its a matter of feeling it!

Yes you read it right the first time ! Its GQ, in today's traffic no car can be pushed to understand the dynamics !

Over to tea shop!

[GTO]

Buddy,

At the risk of repeating what has already been stated on this thread:

NEW: Linea T-Jet. Super steering, dynamics & engine. Blows every other C segment sedan away in terms of driving pleasure.

Pre-worshipped: Laura TSI / vRS. Enough said.

You don't need to look beyond these two options for a car that will be satisfying in the longer term. Nope, I don't think the Polo GT TSI is even in contention here.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by anachronix

Yes! The Skodas are, but not the badge engineered Rapid in India!

I believe our friendly mod .anshuman had made an elaborate post on it somewhere. Can't recall everything but remember the mention of
# Absence of under body plate (typical of all Skodas)
# Absence of Skoda (distinct) horn.

I would go with what GTO says and honestly, would buy the vRS.

[wanderlustindia]

Hi fellas,

Thanks muchly for all your valuable inputs. There has been a change in plans. I'm putting up the 1.6 S for sale now but not buying a new car. This because, I am going back to the UK middle of next month for good!

For anyone who is interested, please feel free to pm me. The car is in Navi Mumbai and I'll be happy to give a test drive to serious potential buyers. Please spread the word. I will also shortly put up an ad in the Classifieds section.

[rahulsharma2008]

Dear Friends,

I am considering to buy a C2 automatic segment sedan for myself in the near future. Currently I drive a Swift Diesel and absolutely the love the car except the fact that it is manual transmission. I love automatics but I am unable to make any decision due to my bitter experience of a gearbox failure in my Santro Automatic in the past. For me "fun to drive" and "reliability" are equally important. My Santro was not fun to drive (mainly because of the gearbox) and that particular car turned out to be not so reliable by Hyundai standards.

Monthly usage: 1500kms
Expected efficiency: 12kmpl in city conditions

Following are my choices:

1. 2014 Honda City (is it worth waiting?)
2. Vento TSI with DSG (It's damn fun to drive going by the polo gt but reliability is what makes me think a 100 times before making the decision.)
3. 2014 Ford Fiesta Powershift (The engine is not so fun to drive)

My heart says Vento TSI but mind says 2014 City. I am totally confused. Fiesta powershift steps in because it handles like a dream and shifts well, gearbox is reliable but engine is mediocre.

Special request: Is there anyone in the world who has completed 1 lakh kilometres on the 7 speed DSG (DQ200) without a breakdown or massive maintenance i.e. clutch packs etc. If yes please enlighten me so that my decision can be made easy.

[mohitk1993]

Originally Posted by rahulsharma2008

I am considering to buy a C2 automatic segment sedan for myself in the near future. Currently I drive a Swift Diesel and absolutely the love the car except the fact that it is manual transmission. For me "fun to drive" and "reliability" are equally important.

Since "reliability" and "fun to drive" are equally important to you, there is only one car that seems apt for your needs: The 2014 Honda City.

• As good as the Vento gets, the DQ200 transmission woes will always be on the back of your mind whenever you wish to take it on a long ride. Although VAG claims to have sorted the issues, you cannot guarantee anything, going by their past records. I suggest you wait for an year to check the same from Polo GT owners and then make a decision.

• The City has always been a hassle-free choice and packs in Honda reliability as well; there is no reason why it should be ignored. Yes, it cannot guarantee the thrills the 1.2 TSI will give you, no doubt about that; but then, it trumps the Vento in numerous other aspects that are appreciated in a daily commuter. The new City will only improve upon the same old formula and going by Honda's recent history, I'm sure they won't leave us Indians shortchanges w.r.t specs or features.

PS: It seems there are already a few threads discussing the same topic. Kindly request the mods to add this to any existing thread.

[Simple_car]

Originally Posted by rahulsharma2008

I am considering to buy a C2 automatic segment sedan for myself in the near future. For me "fun to drive" and "reliability" are equally important.

Monthly usage: 1500kms
Expected efficiency: 12kmpl in city conditions

Following are my choices:[list=1]

Have you driven the fiesta to say that the engine is not good? I drive one very frequently, and I can assure you, there is a way to drive this car. You have to learn it. I have now become very comfortable driving this car in bombay traffic (although, my ownership report says so otherwise; I'll be updating that soon). Also, if you are willing to wait till 2014, why don't you wait for the face-lifted fiesta?

Anyways, one thing you should be very clear right from the beginning. None of the above mentioned cars will give you your expected mileage. Not in bombay city traffic. Fiesta gives me 8-9; the city A/T 8.5-10; and I have no clue on the vento.

I personally like the city, but for different reasons. The new city is expected to carry on the torque converter unit from it's predecessor. The dsg transmissions from the VAG and Ford companies are definitely worth the extra money IMHO.
If you are ok with dealing with the german dealers, go ahead and buy the vento. It is a good car, and in the dsg avatar, should be ideally good. If I were you, I would buy the face-lifted fiesta.

Thanks,
Simple_car

[rahulsharma2008]

Originally Posted by Simple_car

Have you driven the fiesta to say that the engine is not good? I drive one very frequently, and I can assure you, there is a way to drive this car. You have to learn it. I have now become very comfortable driving this car in bombay traffic (although, my ownership report says so otherwise; I'll be updating that soon). Also, if you are willing to wait till 2014, why don't you wait for the face-lifted fiesta?

Anyways, one thing you should be very clear right from the beginning. None of the above mentioned cars will give you your expected mileage. Not in bombay city traffic. Fiesta gives me 8-9; the city A/T 8.5-10; and I have no clue on the vento.

I personally like the city, but for different reasons. The new city is expected to carry on the torque converter unit from it's predecessor. The dsg transmissions from the VAG and Ford companies are definitely worth the extra money IMHO.
If you are ok with dealing with the german dealers, go ahead and buy the vento. It is a good car, and in the dsg avatar, should be ideally good. If I were you, I would buy the face-lifted fiesta.

Thanks,
Simple_car

I test drove the Fiesta Powershift once and didnt find the power delivery to be exciting. The gearbox was also not in the league of DSG but you are right its worth waiting for the facelifted Fiesta. What makes me think about the Fiesta is even after plonking a smaller engine (1.5 vs 1.6) and a DCT, the Fiesta still manages 8-9kmpl in city conditions.

I was bowled over by the Polo GT test drive and hence expect the Vento TSI to be a cracker as well. I dont mind facing the German dealers. Its just that I dont want to see another failed Gearbox.

City could also come up with a CVT in interests of higher fuel economy.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by rahulsharma2008

Monthly usage: 1500kms
Expected efficiency: 12kmpl in city conditions

Following are my choices:

1. 2014 Honda City (is it worth waiting?)
2. Vento TSI with DSG (It's damn fun to drive going by the polo gt but reliability is what makes me think a 100 times before making the decision.)
3. 2014 Ford Fiesta Powershift (The engine is not so fun to drive)

Of the three mentioned, the Vento TSI should be a very competent choice. Infact, if I am in the market now for a petrol sedan in the 10 lakhs+ segment, this will be the one I will go for. The characteristics should not be much different from the Polo GT TSI. I will not worry too much about the DQ200 woes in the newer cars. Earlier, it was available only in the Superb, but now it looks like VAG is confident enough to make it more mass-market in India by providing the option in cars like the Polo, new Octavia etc.

Regarding the Fiesta, I agree with Simple_car’s comments. If you’re not in a hurry, it may be worth waiting for the upgraded Fiesta. The new face looks good, and it should come with the same engine options as of the Ecosport. Only trouble is, Ford has this habit of launching their cars in a very leisurely pace.

[rahulsharma2008]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Of the three mentioned, the Vento TSI should be a very competent choice. Infact, if I am in the market now for a petrol sedan in the 10 lakhs+ segment, this will be the one I will go for. The characteristics should not be much different from the Polo GT TSI. I will not worry too much about the DQ200 woes in the newer cars. Earlier, it was available only in the Superb, but now it looks like VAG is confident enough to make it more mass-market in India by providing the option in cars like the Polo, new Octavia etc.

Regarding the Fiesta, I agree with Simple_car’s comments. If you’re not in a hurry, it may be worth waiting for the upgraded Fiesta. The new face looks good, and it should come with the same engine options as of the Ecosport. Only trouble is, Ford has this habit of launching their cars in a very leisurely pace.

I am yet to find a positive reliability report of DQ200 gearbox. Just Google 7-Speed DSG issues to find out yourself. VW is notorious for such problems. What cements the fact is they dont offer extended warranty on the boxes just like they do in China or Russia or Japan