[asit.kulkarni93]

Originally Posted by recker_us

@Asit, thank for your insights on the cars to use. Great feedback from the Leh tour experience of the bikes.. I might be wrong, but I haven't received good reviews in past about old Diesel cars.. Off late the diesel technology has matured a lot.. But Marina seem to be the ones from 2006-07.. Would you still recommend it.. Alto-1.1 may be a good option.. Not sure if there are many available though.. else will the Old Zen be good enough?

Don't even think of a zen. It scraps normal speed breakers in the city. I doubt if it can handle those bad roads.
The indigo marina as far as I have known won't give you much problem. But it would be great if some marina owner comments on the problems.
If you don't want the hassle of a used diesel. Then I guess the alto 1.1 and Wagonr are some good options that you have within your budget.

[phamilyman]

IMNSHO it would be a new Honda CBR250. It is totally reliable, can cruise at 120 for hours, can handle bad roadswith aplomb and will give you bullet proof reliability, which is what you need if you're going to arunachal leh and what not.

Face it, an alto has decent resale value. at 1.5L you will get an old piece or a beater. Either ways you will need to budget for potential repairs of a 3 L car. Whereas a new bike will give you total peace of mind.

Plus IMHO, as a car guy, you travel alone, as a biker, you are free and yet one with the world.

The pleasure in solo touring, or of seeing the world at an angle - you can't get that in a car.

Of course, if you really want to be using your tent regularly then the car makes more sense.

Alternatively, buy a new alto, take it on the trip, and sell it afterwards. That should be cost effective as well.

[VW2010]

But if I was in your shoes I would do neither. I would travel by general or second class in trains to every place in India.

Second to that. No point tiring yourself riding and driving. Taking a second class train in some of these locations will give you lots to observe and enjoy.

Carry minimal, carry light and if possible just ditch the mobile phone if you have a smart one and just carry a 1100.

If you want a sabattical it should be no-nonsense, peace of mind 6 months doing what you like and love. And to even understand what you like and love, ditch some of these electronics.

Two weeks i didnt have a phone. I was SO HAPPY

[amit_purohit20]

First decide how you want to roam throughout India. This is a matter of personal choice and your ability to take risk.
Based on safety:
1) Train.
2) Own Car
3) Bike.
Based on being one with earth:
1) Bike
2) Car
3) Train.

Personally I would not have taken the journey of travelling with train. It would not be a journey to remember for me and I would like to do it by road. Although this will encounter a lot of risk and efforts. But I did still prefer it this way.

Train has the other advantage/disadvantage of not enjoying the journey but only the destinations. You get to the destination fresh and fast, but loose on enjoying the journey.

The question between a bike and a car would be answered by your heart and risk taking ability.

Car:
Major advantages include safety, less tiring so more distances covered in a day, not exposed to the elements of nature so won't affect your health.
Can carry more luggage with more security and also safety for you. You can even sleep in the same car. Like someone has shown the pic the flat seats. You can carry loads of drinking water, food, tent etc etc. which can save costs on your accomodation.
For Car I did prefer a very common brand and one with good service network so left with Maruti. Alto/800 etc you can decide. I did prefer a reliable petrol over a notorious diesel (considering your budget of 1.5L) even if it means more expenditure on fuel. Do the calculations you will get a clear picture.

Let me be clear riding a bike is dangerous in India. But you would enjoy it to the zilth and would be a lifelong memory to be sure. But the efforts are tremendous. You will have to face hell and you will have to travel very light. Also keeping your luggage secure is another problem you will face.

For such a long ride you need not just a reliable bike but a very reliable bike.
Bullet and reliability do not come close Period!

I did prefer a modified Karizma (Not ZMR).
Remove all plastics, have a round headlight raised handlebars, a padded seat, a luggage carrying and locking mechanism (You will have to devise your own!).
Its already done a 6 month long journey of 47k kms without any major failures. It has a long stroke proven honda engine which is relaxed and air cooled which means higher reliability due to reduced parts and also easy to repair. The bike is also comfortable and not back breaking. You can day long cruise on it at 100 kmph.

The other advantage of bike is if you feel bored with straight roads just book it as luggage on the same train as you travel and go ahead. So you are saved from boredom of travelling on long straight roads (if you feel so) and still have your bike to roam around which is easier to maneouver and doesnot require any toll or any taxes to be paid.

A journey with the same destinations you mentioned and by taking a sabbatical has been already done by praveen. This travelogue will answer all your questions about bike, route, things to carry, problems faced in such a trip, trip planning etc etc.

http://www.bcmtouring.com/forum/trav...unknown-t9814/

[Sutripta]

This is essentially a car forum. So what do you expect. Ask your question in the other bhp forum and see what answer you get!

Your usage - would not think of anything other than a car. My preference is 800 over Alto. (Expecting that for touring in the Himalayas, AC performance is not a deal breaker.)
But would infinitely prefer a new car to an unknown preowned car.

Why dont you hire a Bullet for a few days for traipsing round Himachal, and then deciding.

Regards
Sutripta

[Ironhide]

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

2 of my relatives recently travelled to Leh. One of them had a Fazer and the other one had a Pulsar180. They were a group of 8 people and had 2 RE's with them (bullet and TB350). He said the RE's gave them the most of the trouble followed by the avenger and the pulsar. They had 3 breakdowns with the RE and 7+ punctures. The bike is very heavy and it gets difficult to remove the punctures. Not only that but the breakdowns were real bad. As they were in a group they could handle the issues with an ease. You are going alone why take a risk?
If you really want a comfortable bike for touring. I would recommend the following options-
1. Honda CBR250R
2. Hero Karizma R
3. Bajaj Avenger
4. Yamaha Fz16/Fazer.
All the best

Asit

+1 to That. If you are planning to travel alone, then comfort and reliability of the steed will matter the most. You don't want to be stopping every 100 kms for a burnt out spark plug or a clogged fuel filter. And you'd definitely want to do it in the back of beyond, where the nearest habitation is many miles away! . Agreed that you will have a lot more independence on a bike than a car, and the experience will be richer, but it would be possible ONLY IF the bike didn't hamstring you every two days. RE's are known to be notorious for breakdowns (though there are examples of flawless working steeds too, and then there's roadinc , who's gone all the way to Arunachal on a very old example of a RE, but such examples are few and far between, especially in the Himalayas) and are nowhere as reliable as some of the newer bikes. Reliability AND comfort will become the operative words when you are looking at a window of many months of riding. I would wholeheartedly agree with Asit's choice of bikes. With a bike that you plan to traverse the Himalayas with, the following come to mind

1. Reliability
2. Comfort
3. Fuel Economy
4. Adequate Power & Torque
5. Large A$$ network
6. Easy availability of spares, though this may be moot in view of point #1
7. Tubeless Tyres preferred

If it's a car you're planning to drive, I'd suggest the Wagon R - for the sheer flexibility of space options (can double up as a bed when you are not able to garner any accommodation), has robust, time tested mechanicals, large wheels, solid underpinnings, generally a trouble free suspension and decent ground clearance. Though I'd still prefer a bike over a car, for the simple reason that Robert M Pirsig quotes in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance".......

“In a car you're always in a compartment, and because you're used to it you don't realize that through that car window everything you see is just more TV. You're a passive observer and it is all moving by you boringly in a frame.

On a cycle the frame is gone. You're completely in contact with it all. You're in the scene, not just watching it anymore, and the sense of presence is overwhelming.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

The following links may be of use. Please have a look.


http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorb...ml#post3312788

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...e-forever.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorb...himalayas.html

Here's wishing you countless miles of exploring the Himalayas ! At the risk of quoting him a second and a third time, here's Robert M Pirsig again.....

“Is it hard?'
Not if you have the right attitudes. Its having the right attitudes that's hard.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

"Sometimes it's a little better to travel than to arrive”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Happy Discovering !

Cheers !

[amitw79]

I believe the sole purpose of doing this solo journey across India is to get in touch with your own self.
After working for 7 years in IT, I can already feel like I don't really know myself anymore.

Now coming to the question, if you really wanna feel and live these six months, car is definitely not an option, it's either bike or trains/buses.

You will experience much more with these options.

If bike, then any reliable 150cc plus bike will do. There are examples of people doing south to ladakh on a platina.

If I was in your dilemma with this budget I would pick up Thunderbird 350 just coz I love the machine, barring the reliability of course. But then that's also one of the other experience to remember few years down the line..riding across India on an unreliable royal Enfield ..facing issues with the machine, finding way out, getting help, fixing it and then moving on. I agree it won't sound appealing right now but once you experience it and live through it, you will be proud of yourselves later on when you will try to relive the moments of your journey.

Probably its just my way of looking at it, but I tried to paint a picture for you to ponder upon ☺

[bblost]

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

They had 3 breakdowns with the RE and 7+ punctures. The bike is very heavy and it gets difficult to remove the punctures. Not only that but the breakdowns were real bad.

No offence but if it takes more than 10 minutes to remove the rear tire of a RE bike, then the rider does not have any idea on what he is riding.

I once timed myself...took me less than 10 minutes including removing the toolkit from under the seat.

[asit.kulkarni93]

Originally Posted by bblost

No offence but if it takes more than 10 minutes to remove the rear tire of a RE bike, then the rider does not have any idea on what he is riding.

I once timed myself...took me less than 10 minutes including removing the toolkit from under the seat.

Sir no offence taken
I have attached two images below which will show you the difference as to how RE's wheels touch the road and the uplifted rear in the FZ.
While on the roads to Leh, the RE's had punctures on uneven surfaces due to which it was difficult to put the bike on the main stand. They had to remove all the tied up luggage and then remove the punctures.
Now as you own a RE i guess you know better on this. I never rode with any RE owners so have less idea on this, just give a rough idea as to what my uncle told me after his Leh trip.

[bblost]

Most guys would place two flat stones under the main stand to increase ground clearance.

I do it a little differently.
I simply loosen the rear axle nut after removing the cotter pin. Then with the main stand engaged, I would also pull out the side stand and lean the bike on it.
Then remove the rear axle and slide the tire out from between the silencer and the rear bumper.

That is all there is to it.

I am guessing these guys were not grease monkeys.

[ashkamath]

Originally Posted by recker_us

Hi Friends,
After 15 years in IT, I am looking forward to my first sabbatical for 6 months.. The plan is to go around India.. Explore lesser known or even unknown destinations in India. I might be travelling alone most of the time..

I might spend a lot of time in Himalayas.. Even planning to go from Arunachal to Leh passing through Bhutan and Nepal.. I need your help to decide on the mode of conveyance for this trip. I am contemplating between the two:

Hi JP, Lot depends upon the type of person you are, the amount of risk you are willing to take, your expectations from this trip, strength (physical / mental / financial) and temperament and nature (like if you are impulsive or careful / meticulous or panic under stress etc).

Now your plan is to go around India. and explore lesser or even unknown destinations in India. you also mention that you might SPEND a lot of time in Himalayas. (Spending time in Himalaya does not necessarily mean DRIVING / RIDING a lot in Himalayas).

and more over this is a sabbatical, a get away from the rut and routine chore. So I presume that you are in to get out of comfort zone (your very decision of this sabbatical indicates that you are raring to get out of your comfort zone) and take it easy, enjoy the country and have fun. This is not going to be some sort of race or itinerary based package trip where everything is pre-fixed. Here you decide to drive / ride 500 or 50 Kms per day or stay in a place that you liked for a week or more. after all this is a sabbatical.

Now the main points Car or Bike?

Quoting your own words (both the car and bike reasons together)( coz I want to be in your shoes, not thrust my shoes in your feet)

- I have generally found it to be the most used vehicle in the mountains. Due to its decent ground clearance and low height and reasonable power/weight ratio, I have seen it passing through areas of bad road, non existent road.
----> can be done by both a small car or a bike ( a bike has advantage here)

- It can pass through narrow road..
-----> can be done by both a small car and a bike (a bike has advantage here)

- Most importantly, they have a service network literally everywhere in India..
-----> I would say a Bike has an advantage here ( you could spend a few hours for 7-10 days in your friendly neighborhood 2 wheeler garage and learn basics of 2 wheeler repairs. No big deal. easier than a car) but of course Maruti service network is everywhere ( so I saw in some TV advertisement too)

- Economical in terms of mileage especially when you are not earning.
-----> A bike is better than a car.

- Gives me freedom to carry my tent, sleeping bag, food, more stuff for emergency...
-----> A car is better than a bike here. But I don't see why a bike cannot carry enough stuff for ONE person's need like a tent/ sleeping bag / food stuff and all. Lots of of bikers have done this stuff. Of course you can stuff more in a car. But do you really need all the stuff that you are carrying. If you are totally planning to stay overnight outdoors or on highway, then a car makes sense, but I dont see that coming. In all probabilities you would be taking decent acco every where that you go ( and only use the tent / sleeping bag if there is no alternative or if you really liked it to have it that way). I mean if you are in Jaipur or Nagpur or Delhi you wouldn't use a tent right. and this is an all India trip. Not a HImalayan raid if I got you right.

- Simply because I never owned one.. So, should be good be have a companion which clams to cure "Male Menopause"..
------> I fully agree with you. A bike can give you pleasure in more ways than I could possibly explain here.

- Falls in my budget.
----> Bike again wins

- Powerful machine which should help me pass through bad Himalayan roads and passes with ease.
-----> You are right there. Mountain and Bikes are made for each other.

- Make you feel more in touch with nature compared to a closed car..
-----> Yup. A Bike makes you in touch with nature more than a TV monitor car window.

But then a sabbatical on a Bike for 6 months, one needs to have a tougher mettle than a driving a car for the same period. you are open to elements. WInd in your hair and sun on your face and earth below you needs more courage than a confidence inspiring metal cage. and doing this day after day for 180 days requires some strength. But again remember, this is not a race nor has a rigid itinerary. you can ride for 50 Km a day or 200 Km or even 1000 Km if you loved it. If you find some trail in the forest you can take a detour for a few hours, visit water bodies, you can ride where no 4 wheeler can ever go. that is a fine advantage.

Bike is easy on pocket, easy on repairs / maintenance ( if you carried the basic stuffs like cables, puncture kit, pump etc and learnt how to use it, a learning for life time I might say).
and as Amit_Purohit20 mentioned below -The other advantage of bike is if you feel bored with straight roads just book it as luggage on the same train as you travel and go ahead. So you are saved from boredom of travelling on long straight roads (if you feel so) and still have your bike to roam around which is easier to maneuver and does not require any toll or any taxes to be paid.

I have seen below an overwhelming response recommending car for the trip. Well I have been driving / riding for over 30 years and now at 50 years of age I ride a Duke 390 as my primary transport and 4 wheeler only for family occasions ( will be on a 1500 Km solo ride very soon) and in my opinion one cannot compare riding a bike to driving a car. A bike is to me living free and a Car is a cage. you can make your sabbatical experience as you deem fit.

Next, the Maruti 800/Alto or the Bullet.
Between M800 and Alto, I would choose a M800 ( as I owned one) as it is as little rugged reliable car as you might be able to get (for your budget you can really get an excellent M800).
But if you choose a Bullet a TB500 should be fine. the bikes are much reliable now, rugged. You could also look into Avenger 220 ( I had a Kawasaki Eliminator (same avenger design) on which I did many a 1000 Kms rides and it was a sofa on road honestly). then there is a great tourer CBR250 or a ZMA.
Selecting a bike is basically dependent on some factors like what stance you like ( relaxed like avenger or upright like a bullet), your height ( whether your arched legs will get regular cramps / fatigue due to low slung height of some bikes), reliability, power, service network availability, etc.,

What I would honestly suggest is to take a week off, borrow an alto or M800 and drive off to some 1500 Kms drive, see how you feel and then come back, work a week and again take a week off, this time borrow a bike like ZMA or avenger ( the one you like most) and ride for a week. Why I am saying this is you are planning a 6 month sabbatical. Once you take a decision and start your sabbatical there is no turning back, there shouldn't be any regrets or If Only moments. so 2 week of separate trials is a small price to pay for 25 week of sheer bliss later.

and btw I was in IT at Bangalore for over 10 years and I took a permanent sabbatical from it and I relocated to Goa for good and now in a totally different profession and thoroughly enjoying it

Originally Posted by bblost

Most guys would place two flat stones under the main stand to increase ground clearance.

I do it a little differently.
I simply loosen the rear axle nut after removing the cotter pin. Then with the main stand engaged, I would also pull out the side stand and lean the bike on it.
Then remove the rear axle and slide the tire out from between the silencer and the rear bumper.

That is all there is to it.

I am guessing these guys were not grease monkeys.

That is cool way to do it. But now most of the new gen bikes do not have a main stand. My Duke 390 does not have a main stand. We need a Paddock stand to do any work like cleaning / lubing chain or changing the tyres.

Originally Posted by amit_purohit20

A journey with the same destinations you mentioned and by taking a sabbatical has been already done by praveen. This travelogue will answer all your questions about bike, route, things to carry, problems faced in such a trip, trip planning etc etc.

http://www.bcmtouring.com/forum/trav...unknown-t9814/

Yup, I have ridden a lot with Praveen KM at Bangalore those days between 2002-2008. An excellent and passionate rider. His trip log is a treasure house for riders.

[Samba]

Well let me share my point of view. Its simply based on my personal experience.

I have done few 500 up kms solo bike rides and plenty of long drives in a car. I used an Alto for 3 years and did 50 long drives on it before selling the car.

Let me start with the bike- I had a Honda Unicorn earlier and now a Karizma R. With both the bikes i have done 500 up kms ride in a single day and around 1000kms in a whole trip.

The pros-
1)One can feel the nature. The feel good factor is immense.
2)Its light on the pocket.
3)In case of heavy traffic and congested roads you can simply squeeze in.
4)If you are planing a trip in the Himalayas, the joy of cornering in a bike is totally price less , you will be all smiling and singing with in your helmet covered face!
5)Getting a road side mechanic for a bike is more easier than getting one for your car and repairing a bike is much cheaper too.

The cons-
1) Safety. Any given day a car is safer than a bike specially in Indian unruly traffic.
2) In the midnight once i was riding my bike and it started raining heavily and it was dam cold. I was asking to myself what am i doing. I could have taken my car and enjoyed a soft music in this rain!!!
3)Bikes don't have a spare tyre. So a puncture in the middle of the highway gives trouble.
4)In case you don't find a suitable hotel you cant sleep on your bike.
5)The chances of theft or burglary is considerably higher on a bike as its open.

Which Bike- I have once ridden my friends bullet for around 140kms.( Bangalore- Mysore). The things i liked were it was dam stable and easy to handle. It has a feel good factor and loved the thumping sound. The sound was like music to my ears. But the negative side was the bike had quiet a bit of vibration above 90km/hr which was getting uncomfortable after 100 odd kms. And one of my friend complaints about frequent oil leaking issue from his 2 years old RE.

So i would suggest you a Cbr 250 or a Hero Honda Karizma R. I have ridden my Karizma for more than 600kms in a day and its dam comfortable.

Coming to the car-

The pros-
1) Comparatively safer.
2)If you feel bored you always have your ICE. So you play your favorite music on the go.
3)You always have a spare tyre so in case of a puncture you wont get stranded.
4) You can sleep in your car when ever you need a power nap.
5) You don't have to worry for the weather condition.
6) In case of a health problem you feel much more secured to drive a car rather than riding a bike. Believe me once i did a 500+ kms drive with intermittent vomiting and lose motion. I couldn't have done that on a bike i would have felt sick earlier.

The cons-
1) It will drink much ore fuel.
2) Toll tax will be higher.
3) You are always cut off from the nature. To enjoy the nature you have to park you car and get out to feel it.
4) Chances of getting stuck in congested roads and traffic jams are much higher.
5)Finding a parking space in narrow roads may be difficult in case you like a spot and decide to click some snaps.

Which Car- Between Alto and M800 i suggest the Alto. I have driven my Alto for more than 800kms in a day with absolutely no issues. I have drive M800 a lot too. Frankly speaking Alto is much more comfortable, has much better suspension and brakes are booster assisted so more effective than M800 and the 5th cog helps more in relaxed cruising and the Alto's ac is a chiller. In an Alto you can get power steering where as M800 don't have that option.Regarding ground clearance both the car scores equally. Both are good due to there short wheel base.
On the other hand the M800 feels a bit more spacious, the low end grunt of the M800 is better than an Alto.

If i were you 5 years back, eyes closed i would have taken my bike. But now the comfort of car has spoilt me. So my present pick will be a car. But still i would say its like brain vs heart. These are one time achievements so listen to your heart and get it done! Wish you all the best for your journey.

[phamilyman]

Let me give you a different perspective. Why the hell is a middle aged man (probably with kids to boot) be doing this mad solo journey? Mid-life crisis (or whatever fancy word you may wish to use), right?

Then - It CANNOT be anything other than a bike for most people.

Because whatever anyone may say about comfort, YOU FEEL MORE ALIVE ON A BIKE! YOLO my friend.

Close your eyes and ask yourself this question - what would set your pulse more racing? Carving up the corners on a bike, viewing the world at an angle, plunging in with abandon or doing the same on a used Alto which would nowhere be as fun. But yes, if your heart votes for a car, go for it.

Maybe when my son reaches about six years of age (i.e no longer as cute as he is now, at 2.5) - I would gladly take a month or two off and travel around the country on a bike. Irrespective of the size/comfort of my car at that period, it WOULD be a bike. This is a dream I've harbored since I started touring on the car five years back, and even more when my son was born (ruling out 99% of bike trips).

Lastly, over a six month period, assuming you will keep driving, you should do easily 25-50k depending on your route plan. The fuel costs will be two-three times in a car, compared to most bikes in this range. That can be a significant % of your 1.5 Lakh budget. Please compare TOTAL cost of trip and use that as the objective decision criteria.

[vibbs]

A lot of us will be giving a lot of opinions about whether or not you should take a bike or a car. If I talk from my perspective, it would be a car all the way. Not that I don't ride bike, I do. And because of that very fact I know that a road trip on a bike is that much more difficult. Unless you are extremely fit, or used to riding long hours, a bike for such a trip may be too taxing.

I know the journey is more important than the destination and that is why this question of car or bike is here in first place. Else taking a train or combination of various modes of public transport would be the most obvious choice. But at the same time there has to be a balance. You will enjoy the journey and the destination only if you yourself are in a shape to do so. If you are weary from riding long hrs, not only will that take your mind away from enjoying the journey, but also the destinations as well. You don't want to end up p****d off because of the scorching sun and no water or torrential rains and no shelter. People do like those experiences, but would 'you'?

I don't agree to the point that bikes are ultimate Nirvana and cars a cage. If someone feels a car is a cage, then probably we are not on the same page. However what is important is not what A,B,C or D thinks, its what you feel. If you are a biker within, you may not enjoy four wheels, else twisting that steering on the twisties can be just as much fun.

So the first question probably would be to answer if you are a biker within or not.
If not, are you ready to give yourself some amount of prep time to get in shape? If either of these questions have an answer 'yes', go ahead it would be one hell of a ride.

Else go get that Alto/M800 and it will be equal fun.

[baludharmarajan]

Hi recker_us,

Iam also thinking of going to a journey like this but lasting just a week.

Let me ask you one thing; have you done any journeys on a bike that lasted more than 3 days continuously on a bike in the past 2 or 3 years. Driving 3 or 4
hour journey on a bike is not same as continuous day trip.
I have done it and on the 4th day you will feel to end the trip some how and reach home because you are so tired. When I was riding through a lonely stretch at chikmagalur I was thinking what I would do if the bike punctures. I have to walk 15 Km back or forward because there is no other car or bike in sight.

After getting wind on your face continuously I don't feel good after reaching the destination. I and My friend used to do bike trips but now we use cars. Due to dust, noise, heavy traffic and reckless drivers it is no longer safe to drive bike continuously.

I would recommend you to try the below options:

1) Use a car or a train to reach your destination ie Himalayas and rent a bike to see the places locally.

2) Use a car through out the trip.

There is another reason for me to use car, my family will feel more relaxed until I reach home. If Iam on a bike journey they will keep calling continuously or they will be only relaxed until I reach home. I assume you have lot of friends, family and relatives that care for you; so if not for you use a car for their peace of mind.