[BUXX]

Doesn't the Scorpio AT come with HHC ?

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by BUXX

Doesn't the Scorpio AT come with HHC ?

Don't think so. No mention of it in the Brochure. Brochure indicates 'Shift to Manual mode for increased torque and better control of ascent and descent'- Sounds like a Sports mode since there does not seem to be an option to actually shift manually.

Also calls out a 'Wet' mode for better control on slippery roads. Not sure what that does. Seems to be different from the AWD option.

[BlueEyes]

What is it with these car manufacturers and their new launches? Creta,Jazz and now Baleno all offerings of auto variants don't have top end model!! If you are giving increase in price as the reason, baffling to say the least. They think prospective buyers looking for convenient of auto box don't crave for all the safety features and gizmos of top end model? They couldn't be anymore wrong Give customer choices let him choose what works best for him, let the buyer decide what is expensive. It's not that you have to keep separate inventory for auto top variants, as the same features/spares are already available for manual transmission. May be one day,one day I will understand the brilliant logic behind it.

I waited for Jazz CVT launch for months, got terribly disappointed with what Honda offered. That forced me to TD few more cars and thank god I did that. Now, I am happy owner of new GT TSI(face-lifted)

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by BlueEyes

What is it with these car manufacturers and their new launches? Creta,Jazz and now Baleno all offerings of auto variants don't have top end model!! If you are giving increase in price as the reason, baffling to say the least. They think prospective buyers looking for convenient of auto box don't crave for all the safety features and gizmos of top end model? They couldn't be anymore wrong Give customer choices let him choose what works best for him, let the buyer decide what is expensive. It's not that you have to keep separate inventory for auto top variants, as the same features/spares are already available for manual transmission. May be one day,one day I will understand the brilliant logic behind it.

I waited for Jazz CVT launch for months, got terribly disappointed with what Honda offered. That forced me to TD few more cars and thank god I did that. Now, I am happy owner of new GT TSI(face-lifted)

Join the club!
My boss & I went car shopping recently - both looking for an A/T Sedan/Cross-over.
The Creta may just get knocked off his list owing to the lack of a top end variant with leather seats, and all the safety goodies (HHC, ESC, etc.). The price knocked it out of my shortlist.
Same story with the Jazz (no magic seats!), the Sunny (1 airbag for the driver), and some of the others.
Finally after much thinking - we are leaning towards the Ciaz ZXi A/T - as it seems apart from the leather seats and 16" tyres (15" alloys and tyres that can be upgraded), we aren't losing out on much else (the touchscreen has its share of bugs apparently, so maybe better off without it).

So here's where we are in the car buying process:
1) Need to replace our Etios with an A/T
2) Need peace of mind! The other cars in the garage include 2 VWAG products, and an aging BMW. This car has to be a fill it - forget it vehicle for when the other 3 go for any work.
3) Multiple drivers, and will be the car taken to the not-so-great areas in the city. Will also do household errands, airport runs, etc.
4) Point 2 & 3 = NO VWAG! It's a great car (rapid/vento) - yes, but I can't deal with any more VWAG dealers or vehicles niggling issues. We have other VWAG vehicles to get the BP up, and ruin our sleep.
5) Excellent rear seats, and suspension.

In short - need a Toyota Etios A/T with speed-sensing door locks. Given that isn't happening - the Ciaz seems to be the next best bet.

- No Honda Jazz as there are no magic seats - which would have been the main USP as the lack of a trunk would be made up by the flexibility offered (our German Shepherd would have loved them!);

- No Creta as it is simply too expensive. I cannot justify why we should spend 6L more than the Ciaz. Yes, it is the only Hyundai vehicle that I have liked recently owing to its suspension finally being sorted out, but aside from a better engine and gearbox combo - it doesn't make any sense given the basic requirements from the vehicle. For when the flexibility is needed - makes more sense to hire a cab. Again, no speed sensing door locks except in the M/T version!

- No Verna - too low, too bouncy, and no speed sensing door locks except in top end which isn't available. C'mon - this is a basic safety requirement, especially for the chauffeur driven!

- Sunny/Scala is an option - just not very sure about the service aspect.

- Honda City makes a lot of sense! Just doesn't have a very good ride, and soft seats aren't great for those with a poor back such as mom or me.

Any car that I am forgetting that would be worth considering?

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

- Sunny/Scala is an option - just not very sure about the service aspect.

Any car that I am forgetting that would be worth considering?

For the requirement you have, the Ciaz seems to be the best bet. Sunny does not really make sense as it comes only in a lower variant with one airbag. Scala CVT production has stopped. It will be worthwhile to see if a dealer has one in stock somewhere. You should get some big discounts and since you are looking for a 'Beater Car' ( as GTO calls it ), it may make sense.

Another option is the to be launched Ertiga. AT only in VX but pretty well loaded as per the brochure leaked today.

[katariusmaximus]

Hi Guys. Thought it is time to get another car as the current swift zxi is being used by missus for kid's school runs. Need an automatic given Bangalore's pathetic traffic and petrol since the to and fro per days is around 26 kms.

In this regard checked a few petrol automatics which I felt did not fit my requirements (primarily looked at sedans as need a reasonable boot now), namely (i) Verna (thought it to be quite dated, the rear seat felt quite claustrophobic, and the 4 gear auto box was ok, nothing great), (ii) City CVT was a good option, engine was tried and tested, look and feel was good but the CVT appeared lethargic and the cost of the top end version was almost 14.3 L which IMHO was really overpriced, (iii) Ecosport (the driver's seat felt a size smaller than what am used to, the interiors are just ok, the boot size is similar to a hatch and the I found the gearbox to be very slow, even in tiptronic mode).

Coming to the two final contenders, the Ciaz is spacious, the interiors felt nice and the gearbox was good, though there was no tiptronic, the car absorbed bumps and potholes well, and since I have owned a maruti for a while, think the overall cost of ownership should be less and reliability high. Regarding the Vento tsi, it seemed to be well built, the boot size was good, the steering a masterpiece to look at and use and the DSG was a pleasure to driver both in D and S mode and the tiptronic too. But have heard a lot of horror stories about the DSG gearbox and probable high cost of ownership and spares. Also, in Bangalore the difference between the Ciaz Zxi AT and a Vento tsi highline is quite high. Neither car is being offered with any discounts or offers (unless I am missing something).

In this regard, would be happy to receive some advice from experienced members/owners of such cars on which may be a good option and which dealer would be best in Bangalore. Also if there are any ownership threads for Ciaz AT on team-bhp (I did find on Vento tsi), pls guide me to them as they would be a good read to clear the fog.

Cheers

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by katariusmaximus

Hi Guys. Thought it is time to get another car as the current swift zxi is being used by missus for kid's school runs. Need an automatic given Bangalore's pathetic traffic and petrol since the to and fro per days is around 26 kms.

In this regard checked a few petrol automatics which I felt did not fit my requirements (primarily looked at sedans as need a reasonable boot now), namely (i) Verna (thought it to be quite dated, the rear seat felt quite claustrophobic, and the 4 gear auto box was ok, nothing great), (ii) City CVT was a good option, engine was tried and tested, look and feel was good but the CVT appeared lethargic and the cost of the top end version was almost 14.3 L which IMHO was really overpriced, (iii) Ecosport (the driver's seat felt a size smaller than what am used to, the interiors are just ok, the boot size is similar to a hatch and the I found the gearbox to be very slow, even in tiptronic mode).

Coming to the two final contenders, the Ciaz is spacious, the interiors felt nice and the gearbox was good, though there was no tiptronic, the car absorbed bumps and potholes well, and since I have owned a maruti for a while, think the overall cost of ownership should be less and reliability high. Regarding the Vento tsi, it seemed to be well built, the boot size was good, the steering a masterpiece to look at and use and the DSG was a pleasure to driver both in D and S mode and the tiptronic too. But have heard a lot of horror stories about the DSG gearbox and probable high cost of ownership and spares. Also, in Bangalore the difference between the Ciaz Zxi AT and a Vento tsi highline is quite high. Neither car is being offered with any discounts or offers (unless I am missing something).

In this regard, would be happy to receive some advice from experienced members/owners of such cars on which may be a good option and which dealer would be best in Bangalore. Also if there are any ownership threads for Ciaz AT on team-bhp (I did find on Vento tsi), pls guide me to them as they would be a good read to clear the fog.

Cheers

Hi Buddy,

In the same boat as you! Short-listed the Ciaz Zxi, and the Vento TSi. The Ciaz is actually the complete opposite of the Vento - and a perfect family car, as opposed to something more enthusiastic! What helps tilts it in the Ciaz's favour is the 1.5L price difference between the two vehicles as well.

However, at the same time, the TSi is a gem every time you get behind the wheel! A perfect upgrade from the Swift to be very honest! However - yes, the DSG is the biggest scare in the ointment. Not only if something goes wrong - as they may cover it under warranty, but also the time they would require to fix it!
In fact, the only reason I am so apprehensive.

In this regard, I would honestly urge you to re-consider the EcoSport, go the extra mile for the Creta A/T (should be 18L OTR Bangalore), or pick up a well maintained pre-owned Civic/City/Corolla (my personal preference).
Unfortunately, option 1 is ruled out (dad is not a fan of the looks, as well as the lack of a rear armrest), as is Option 3 (no pre-owned vehicles); thus being forced to look at the Creta as the only real alternative to the Ciaz A/T. Just can't digest the 6.5L price difference, lack of speed sending auto-door locks, and the 6-8 month waiting period!

[landcruiser123]

Ciaz AT should be a good sedan for your daily office commute. The Ciaz is:

• Practical to live with
• Easier to maintain. VW DSG boxes are still patchy
• More spacious than the Vento

Sure, the Vento is quick and enthusiastic , but if you don't use the car much on the highway, Ciaz is the better option.

I would still ask you to reconsider the City though.

[katariusmaximus]

Thanks @lamborghini and @landcruiser123.

This post was enlightening and while the head says Ciaz, the heart says Vento. Ciaz having the Maruti backing of reliability and overall frugality combined with the lower cost of acquisition versus Vento being a hoot to drive and generally appearing to be well put together with good material. I feel Creta AT petrol is just way overpriced in Bangalore with limited features and dont want to go for a used car at the moment as would in all likelihood keep the car for a long duration. So while I am leaning towards the Ciaz, haven't ruled out Vento yet (despite the stories of the issues with DSG and the higher cost of acquisition and the central tunnel being a big hindrance to the third passenger in the rear. About the City AT, frankly I felt it was not worth the extra money being demanded. Any detailed test drives or ownership reviews anyone come across on Ciaz AT on team-bhp I could refer to (other than the brief one on the first page of this post)?

Thanks

Mod Note: Please avoid dotted posts like... this....

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by katariusmaximus

Thanks @lamborghini and @landcruiser123.

This post was enlightening and while the head says Ciaz, the heart says Vento. Ciaz having the Maruti backing of reliability and overall frugality combined with the lower cost of acquisition versus Vento being a hoot to drive and generally appearing to be well put together with good material. I feel Creta AT petrol is just way overpriced in Bangalore with limited features and dont want to go for a used car at the moment as would in all likelihood keep the car for a long duration. So while I am leaning towards the Ciaz, haven't ruled out Vento yet (despite the stories of the issues with DSG and the higher cost of acquisition and the central tunnel being a big hindrance to the third passenger in the rear. About the City AT, frankly I felt it was not worth the extra money being demanded. Any detailed test drives or ownership reviews anyone come across on Ciaz AT on team-bhp I could refer to (other than the brief one on the first page of this post)?

Thanks

Sadly there are no Ciaz AT ownership reports on TBHP. In fact, there are only two or three test drive reports of the AT on TBHP (including a short one posted by me).
Since you are going to keep the vehicle for a long time, would urge you to reconsider pre-owned. A 1 year old Altis with extended warranty will still offer a lot more peace of mind than a Vento would, but after experiencing the car, I know how exactly how you feel!

In my case, the Ciaz makes a stronger case for itself as we already have a Skoda, and have experienced how annoying the service can be (VW service centre close to my house is also owned by the same management as the Skoda service centres).

As for the city - you're right. It just isn't worth the extra amount. Yes, it has a better engine but that is about it! If reports are true, even the Honda like niggle free experience isn't there to give it any credibility.

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by katariusmaximus

In this regard, would be happy to receive some advice from experienced members/owners of such cars on which may be a good option and which dealer would be best in Bangalore. Also if there are any ownership threads for Ciaz AT on team-bhp (I did find on Vento tsi), pls guide me to them as they would be a good read to clear the fog.

Cheers

If you expect your usage to be restricted mostly to the city, the Ciaz ticks all the boxes. If you expect a good amount of highway driving, then the vento tsi is worth looking at closely. It is an excellent all rounder and makes driving in any condition a breeze and even really enjoyable due to the tsi motor. Not that the Ciaz will be bad, but the 4 speed gear box and no tiptronic can become constraints.

In Bangalore, sales experience can be a hit or a miss. I had a poor experience with VW Whitefield and a good one with VW Palace cross. These 2 are generally considered better than VW On hosur road.

Ultimately I always prefer to go with the heart. .

Edit: One suggestion, the Ciaz AT is available as part of the zoomcar fleet. You can take it for a day or two and see how it feels over your regular routes as well as on the highway.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by katariusmaximus

Thanks @lamborghini and @landcruiser123.

This post was enlightening and while the head says Ciaz, the heart says Vento. Ciaz having the Maruti backing of reliability and overall frugality combined with the lower cost of acquisition versus Vento being a hoot to drive and generally appearing to be well put together with good material. I feel Creta AT petrol is just way overpriced in Bangalore with limited features and dont want to go for a used car at the moment as would in all likelihood keep the car for a long duration. So while I am leaning towards the Ciaz, haven't ruled out Vento yet (despite the stories of the issues with DSG and the higher cost of acquisition and the central tunnel being a big hindrance to the third passenger in the rear. About the City AT, frankly I felt it was not worth the extra money being demanded. Any detailed test drives or ownership reviews anyone come across on Ciaz AT on team-bhp I could refer to (other than the brief one on the first page of this post)?

Thanks

Mod Note: Please avoid dotted posts like... this....

Beats me why would any one buy a Maruti AT. Manual, yes. They are good. But AT? All they have in the name of ATs is a lazy rubber-band CVT and a stone-age 4-speed torque converter. I used a 4-speed A-Star At. It was good, but MUL used same box in Vitara , too. They neither have DSG nor 6-speed torque converter (my preference). Ciaz and Baleno also have this lazy CVT. I would say buy new Figo AT. Or, at least take it out for a test spin and you will see what I mean. It's very close to Polo TSI in acceleration.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

Beats me why would any one buy a Maruti AT. Manual, yes. They are good. But AT? All they have in the name of ATs is a lazy rubber-band CVT and a stone-age 4-speed torque converter. I used a 4-speed A-Star At. It was good, but MUL used same box in Vitara , too. They neither have DSG nor 6-speed torque converter (my preference). Ciaz and Baleno also have this lazy CVT. I would say buy new Figo AT. Or, at least take it out for a test spin and you will see what I mean. It's very close to Polo TSI in acceleration.

You buy a Maruti AT for the rest of the positives of the car & brand! Everything said and done, every car is a compromise on something. In this case, the compromise is on the gearbox and engine, as opposed to reliability & poor service (VW/Skoda), high price and waiting periods (City, Creta), etc.

Plus, the 4 speed AT in the Ciaz is a torque converter unit IIRC, and is actually pretty nice for the city where you will rarely do high speeds, or 0-60s.

[heydj]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

You buy a Maruti AT for the rest of the positives of the car & brand! Everything said and done, every car is a compromise on something. In this case, the compromise is on the gearbox and engine, as opposed to reliability & poor service (VW/Skoda), high price and waiting periods (City, Creta), etc.

Plus, the 4 speed AT in the Ciaz is a torque converter unit IIRC, and is actually pretty nice for the city where you will rarely do high speeds, or 0-60s.

My personal opinion:-

A car is sum of its parts with engine & gearbox playing a major role. Everything else like interiors, service etc. can be worked around but it's the engine and gearbox that makes the car truly great.

I would suggest staying away from Maruti AT stable and instead looking at Vento TSI or if you don't want DSG then why not consider Rapid Petrol AT.

Its normal 6 speed AT gearbox with great engine and no hassles of DSG. Skoda is offering very good deals on this variant and its practically a steal at the price point one buys!

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by heydj

My personal opinion:-

A car is sum of its parts with engine & gearbox playing a major role. Everything else like interiors, service etc. can be worked around but it's the engine and gearbox that makes the car truly great.

I would suggest staying away from Maruti AT stable and instead looking at Vento TSI or if you don't want DSG then why not consider Rapid Petrol AT.

Its normal 6 speed AT gearbox with great engine and no hassles of DSG. Skoda is offering very good deals on this variant and its practically a steal at the price point one buys!

Buddy,

Would actually like to respectfully disagree with you on this. IMO, the interiors, ride & handling, etc. are the key value drivers in a car. The engine too is one thing that can always be done up later. Heck - you can even get a transmission swap & an engine swap!

Secondly - a person buying an AT would be more likely (not always) buying one because of traffic and the pain of shifting gears while stuck in it. In such a case convenience matters more than performance.

My girlfriend drives the Vento 1.6 AT which shares the same engine as the Rapid 1.6 AT. Honestly not impressed with that engine at all, especially on the highway! In the city too, the Ciaz felt quicker to respond than her Vento - and I've driven the Vento 1.6 AT substantially to know how it feels.

Don't get me wrong - enthusiast car aside, the VAG twins will find limited takers as family cars / beaters.
If it was a car I were to drive everyday, I would pick up the Polo TSi without a doubt, but as a beater that will see multiple drivers or be used for errands - Never!