[varunswnt]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Ford EcoSport AT vs Honda Jazz CVT

Originally Posted by autorahul

What I most dislike about Ecosport are the blind spots created by both the A pillars and the D pillars. On the other hand Jazz has great all round visibility.

I own Jazz VX MT, and I have driven Ecosport for nice long drives as well.

I would say both create huge blindspots at A pillar, especially on curvy roads and crossroad junctions, so both are same in regards of visibility.

Jazz is spacious than Ecosport, Ecosport gives you that SUV feeling with higher seating whereas Jazz is tallboy hatchback.

Ecosport feels slightly heavy built than Jazz, also provides option of more safety features.

[ToyotaFan]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

I will check the Ignis although to be honest I am not too keen on a MSIL product. People love their swifts and Dzires but I am yet to see a MSIL car within my family and friends which doesn't rattle. That is the reason we chucked out Ignis and Baleno without TD either.

What FE do you get in your Jazz in city traffic?
.

My cars FE over the whole 12k kilometres as per the MID is 12.1 kmpl. This includes majority in city travelling with twice a month round trip to Meerut (150km) which is not a typical highway run over the last 18 months. It gives me over 10kmpl always in east delhi/central delhi traffic by tankful method. Maybe Gurgaon is better in that aspect.

Coming to the senior citizen requirement my parents are also nearing 60 and doctors so I can relate to your requirements. My dad likes high set cars so the Innova fortuner and wagon r are what he prefers. He does not like my jazz one bit. This is the reason that last week he booked an Ignis AMT as a city runabout for himself as it is better than the other cars in the range in that respect. In Meerut he cant drive the eco sport in day to day traffic so maybe your dad finds the ecosport better on gurgaon roads.

I agree with GTO regarding waiting for WRV. Jazz has been sold unchanged since last 1.5 years and is a bit short on equipment if it concerns you. Else you can get some discount on the jazz if u go in for this model. The padel shifters work nicely and the performance is decent enough for the city. The ecosport in the 1.5 DCT variant is also not exactly an enthusiasts car.

Another suggestion is the VW AMEO DSG DIESEL if FE concerns you. The 7 speed DSG and the 117bhp engine should give you the best compromise of power and efficiency.

[PraveenM]

We have both Ecosport AT and Jazz CVT at home! Dad drives the Ecosport and Jazz is used by my wife

Despite the blind spot (not a deal breaker) it serves him well, in heavy traffic, state highways, bad roads in the city and the high seating position is great .The only let down is the poor headlights. We are not concerned with the fuel efficiency as the monthly running is quite low on both cars.

Jazz is much more easier to drive in the city but for the occasional trip out of the city, it is underwhelming.

My vote would be for the Ecosport for your dad !

[differential]

Sorry to add confusion to the discussion.
My dad had similar needs and he is 67.

We tried the jazz cvt. He was ok with it, but not too happy. He was not too keen on the Ecosport as we already have a diesel Ecosport and he was not happy with the A pillar and, city drives were an effort for him.

We would have opted for the jazz as it was a Honda; but he drives my wife's GT Tsi on and off and other cars don't seem to impress him much. The DSG and the turbo 1.2 is fantastic.

So we are seriously considering our second GT TSI. Of course you don't get the peace of mind of a Honda, but the baby TSI has enthralled all of us in a nice way.

If the VW is not for you, then I would probably vote for jazz. Mainly because it's very light and easy to handle inside the city and much easier to park than the Ecosport.

[Arjun Reddy]

I guess your dad has already made his decision. He seems to like the Ecosport. Go for it. It will always feel a segment above the Jazz. The gear box is far superior and so is the build. It's probably safer too with all the additional safety equipment that you will get.

If you are keen on the Honda, wait and check out the WRV.

[Durango Dude]

You could also feature in the Amaze CVT, there are some great discounts for the 2016 model and it's 77 kgs lighter than the Jazz, so would be more nippy. I checked it out on Wednesday evening (TD not done) it's got bright beige and brown interiors to liven things up. Seating is high set. I've a feeling the WR-V isn't going to be cheap; if the City's pricing is going to be anything to go by, it may be at least 15% expensive than the i20 Active which isn't cheap by a long stretch!

[H_Dogg72]

The jazz is quite a dead car and the interiors are pretty cheap. I'd suggest the EcoSport. Better engine. Better gearbox. And more safety. If you want to wait for the FL is another question.
Rest, under 11L budget, check out the Ameo TDI DSG or the Polo GT TSI. Better cars than the jazz anyday since space is not a priority. For self driving I love my TSI. And the new ones have got a fair bit of kit too.

[ani_meher]

Ecosport is good, but the engine is not peppy. It gets the job done. The conventional AT box makes the gears felt.
Jazz is spacious and smooth, but engine no better than Ecosport. CVT does its job perfectly, and the paddle shifters bring at least a psychological comfort (1.2L engine can't make much use of them!)
WRV: Engine may be same as Jazz, but increased height and different fascia changes to tone of the car to be a competitor of ecosport.

I would say don't compromise on the sitting aspect no matter what the performance is. So sitting below in a low car should be avoided, for any car. I think your choices are ecosport and WRV.

For the sake of it, I tried Ertiga and seating in that car is amazingly high. So you don't sit down, rather it is like sitting on a stool. Ingress-egress is very easy and with folded third seat, it works perfect as tall sedan! I tried the 1.4 automatic engine in Ciaz where it responds well. I think it will work similarly well in Ertiga automatic as well. It is out of the blue suggestion though.

[BB311]

Ingress is one aspect of Ecosport that will help the senior citizen, but the more important point to consider here is Ecosport's stiff suspension which might cause back ache to even middle aged men. To add to the confusion, why don't you consider the AT version of Elite i20 ? Feels premium, has trouble free ownership and suspension is tuned for comfort.

Jazz ?? IMO meh !!!!! Other options like Ignis does make a strong case too. I guess, its time you hit the white board with pros and cons.
TO help you start:

Ecosport (Personal Experience)
+ Ingress / Outgress
+ Very Cheap to maintain (Personal Experience)
+ Delhi Traffic friendly (Black bumpers - replaceable in parts, tough build)
- DSG might create trouble in future. But ford Responds well to customers.
- Blind Spots (You need 1 week to get used to it)
- Fat and Slow

Jazz CVT (Personal Experience - Owned by brother)
+ Space. Space. and more Space.
+ Honda Brand value
- Ingres and outgres
- Blind spots present
- Lean and still slow
- Not at all Delhi-Bang friendly.

Elite i20 (Personal Experience - Best Friend has it.)
+ Quick Diesel
+ Mileage in Diesel
+Smooth Gear box
+ Interior Quality
+ Hyundai reliability
+ Resale Price
-Ingress and Out
-Visibilty due to higher dash (For some people)
- Mileage in Petrol
- Not Delhi-Bang friendly.

I leave the rest of the board to you and other members, as I dont have any personal experience on ignis and likes. IMO, If budget is 10 lakhs, why buy a rattling can box ? (No offence to anyone, just a Personal Opinion)

Thanks

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by BB311

I guess, its time you hit the white board with pros and cons. TO help you start:

Truer words have not been written to this extent. Fantastic summary of each car model and a shocking overview of how cars are becoming less and less practical as the age goes by.

Its so, so simple to me, why not just make one car with adequate height, adequate seating space both at front and back with higher seats, easily visible windows (the glass area needs to be taller, that's the only way to avoid the pillars from crushing the view), have a comfort-oriented suspension with good tyres, and an efficient auto-box so that the elderly (50+) can have a peaceful ownership and at the same time drive around their family with pride as well. Not everyone has the energy to go about changing tyres to softer spec and tune their ride, the manufacturers have increasingly gone into teenage mode where only style and design matters and nothing else. The ingress and egress of the Polo, i20 etc are anything but convenient, it doesn't feel natural. Each subsequent generation of 4-box cars (sedans) is becoming lower-slung, increasingly sloping roofline etc, as if the Indian roads are tracks where low center of gravity, squatting profile and 100% aerodynamics matter, give me a break.

For those in the higher side of middle age and above, I guess there are two cars which are neither too tall to climb into nor too low - the Nissan Micra and Grand i10, both excel in visibility as well. Other than those the Ecosport (which might need a slight climb-up action into the seat) is quite acceptable, of course as mentioned by BB311 its suspension is tuned more for stability than comfort and its the best built, hence safer sub-4m car, slightly behind the Punto.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

But isn't it touted now to be coming in with the same 1.2L engine? We write that as a point under cons for Jazz. The same engine doing duty in the larger and more heavier WR-V will be just more lethargic right?

It's for your Dad, no ? For yourself, I would recommend something else. For parents, the cabin & other practicalities matter more than what's lurking under the hood.

Originally Posted by Arjun Reddy

I guess your dad has already made his decision. He seems to like the Ecosport. Go for it. It will always feel a segment above the Jazz. The gear box is far superior and so is the build.

I wouldn't agree with the gearbox being superior for the intended usage. A CVT offers unmatched smoothness.

Originally Posted by Durango Dude

You could also feature in the Amaze CVT, there are some great discounts for the 2016 model and it's 77 kgs lighter than the Jazz, so would be more nippy.

The Amaze's build & quality are a segment down on the cars being discussed. There's a reason why the Amaze isn't sold in developed countries (the Jazz & EcoSport are).

Originally Posted by BB311

To add to the confusion, why don't you consider the AT version of Elite i20 ? Feels premium, has trouble free ownership and suspension is tuned for comfort.

+1. This is an excellent recommendation. I'd buy the Elite i20 AT over the Jazz any day, anytime.

[drmohitg]

First of all thanks for all your wonderful inputs. it just occurred to me today that why haven't we considered the Zest XTA? It is costing us the same as the Honda Jazz and offers the combination of diesel + Automatic transmission with a whole long list of features. The seating too is relatively higher If I am not wrong. But is it advisable to put your money on Tata? Even though I have voted for both the Zest and Tiago in the respective COTY awards, has Tata's quality and after sales support reached a certain level where one does not need to visit them more than once a year? I will definitely go and see if I can find a Tata Zest TD car with that AMT box.

Originally Posted by GTO

+1. This is an excellent recommendation. I'd buy the Elite i20 AT over the Jazz any day, anytime.

But it is offered only in the Magna variant and loses out on lot of features while being costlier by a decent margin. And it is offered with a 4 speed AT box.

[H_Dogg72]

AMT will be jerky. Will totally take away the premium feel. And Maruti AMT atleast are known to overheat and shut off in heavy traffic.
Jazz will be underpowered but smoothest in traffic.
If you're checking out sedans I'd again suggest the Ameo DSG.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by H_Dogg72

AMT will be jerky. Will totally take away the premium feel. And Maruti AMT atleast are known to overheat and shut off in heavy traffic.
Jazz will be underpowered but smoothest in traffic.
If you're checking out sedans I'd again suggest the Ameo DSG.

We aren't considering VW. Don't trust them enough as a daily ride. It might be just psychological but it is what it is. So not considering VW or Skoda at all.

[arunphilip]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

But it is offered only in the Magna variant and loses out on lot of features while being costlier by a decent margin. And it is offered with a 4 speed AT box.

Yes, the i20 AT shows how pricing an AT continues to prove a challenge for manufacturers, and they wimp out by only offering it in a lower variant!

The 4-speed AT is a torque converter, which is actually quite good, particularly for city use. The fluid coupling in the gearbox makes them quite smooth, and reasonably resilient to abuse. The only drawback I see with torque converters are that they give poorer mileage compared to dual clutches and CVTs.

And part of the reason for the increased cost is because Hyundai offer the AT with a more powerful 1.4L petrol engine, not the anaemic 1.2 (anaemic in the i20, not in general).

Don't rule it out right away, give the i20 AT a test drive, its a good car and a good suggestion by BB311.

Thanks for also calling out your reservation about VW/Skoda, and for calling a spade a spade.