[locusjag]

Originally Posted by haisaikat

This is exactly the kind of thread I was looking for. And indeed some great suggestions provided. I have a related question. If both cars are torque converter equipped AT then will a Naturally aspirated petrol fair against turbo Diesel engine in higher altitudes where air density is supposedly less than on plains

Originally Posted by haisaikat

Thanks. But my question is different, in high altitudes where air density is a less who will be more impacted, a naturally aspirated engine or a turbo charged one since both will have the same source to draw air from.

I understand that a Turbo equipped engine will fare better than a Naturally Aspirated counterpart, provided that the driver knows well enough to keep the turbo spooling. Depending upon the vehicle's turbolag zone, this may or may not be possible when starting from a full stop on a hilly incline. There are people on this forum who swear by a naturally aspirated engine for the hills purely for its low-end grunt; the turbolag (a.k.a deadzone) on some diesel cars totally negates their on-paper higher engine power, while some naturally aspirated engines with lower power on paper tend to pull cleanly up steep slopes from a full stop, even if they do suffer from loss of power owing to thinner air at higher altitudes.

Personally, I'd like to think that my TUV 300, with its two-stage turbo, would keep chugging at high altitudes. There is no deadzone for the turbo in the TUV 300/plus models...

If you want to, please check out the last season's episode on the Grand Tour where Clarkson drove a stock Lamborghini Urus up a snowy European ski slope. He specifically mentioned the low-end grunt brought on by its turbo; the Urus didn't struggle to climb the steep snowy surface.

[Venkatesh.H]

Originally Posted by haisaikat

This is exactly the kind of thread I was looking for. And indeed some great suggestions provided. I have a related question. If both cars are torque converter equipped AT then will a Naturally aspirated petrol fair against turbo Diesel engine in higher altitudes where air density is supposedly less than on plains

It is always Turbo Diesel engine perform better compared to NA petrol engine. Turbo assist in feeding more air inside engine cylinder even at high altitude, where air density is lesser.


Venkatesh.H

[sgiitk]

No real issues. Only keep it in S (sports) mode. Then you get some engine braking. Of course you can shift down from D. Remember as you shift down the reverse braking also improves.

[haisaikat]

If there is a slow / standstill traffic on a uphill / downhill road / incline (example - city flyovers), is it recommended to use Park mode on auto gears or just engage the hand brake? From my own experience in Hyundai Getz which is of course manual gearbox, I have seen regular usage of handbrake makes its clinging capability weaker and I have to visit the Service Center and order for adjustment / tightening of the same.

Another question, if there is near freezing temperatures outside, I read earlier on this forum that there are ways to lower the freezing point of diesel by using additives or buy readymade "hilly" (I made up this name) diesel from the petrol pumps highers. Similarly AT gearboxes that use internally fluids for operating will they be prone to similar problems?

Originally Posted by sgiitk

No real issues. Only keep it in S (sports) mode. Then you get some engine braking. Of course you can shift down from D. Remember as you shift down the reverse braking also improves.

Thanks, is this only applicable for downhill? or are you recommending for uphills too? In cars that do not have hill descent control I think the sports mode may be useful for downhill.

A related question for utilizing engine braking is that does it not put more stress on the gears? I recall from my Hyundai Getz owner manual it was written that for incline braking or holding (even in standstill) we should not use clutch / gear and instead use Hand brake to prevent wear / damage of parts but then again that was 12-15 years old technology and that too manual car. Any thoughts

[sgiitk]

@haisaikat; depends on how much shifting you can tolerate. I use S for both climb and descent. Some amount of engine braking does help.

[heydj]

It depends if features like Hill Assist etc. are there or not. E.g. In my Rapid DSG if car is stopped while climbing due to traffic then upon taking foot from brake car will not roll back.

Similarly while going down engine braking happens i.e. car slows by itself if foot is taken away from accelerator this leads to less breaking fatigue.

[haisaikat]

I am trying to contemplate between the Innova Crysta 2.7 petrol AT which is naturally aspirated and provides peak torque of 245 NM at 4000 RPM vs the 2.8 Diesel AT which is turbo charged and generates 360 NM at 1200-3400 RPM range. From the torque curves of the Innova diesel AT it is evident that low RPM non turbo zone torque of the diesel is not much behind to the peak torque of the petrol. Low end torque of the petrol is not published anywhere emailing to Toyota support yielded nothing. I am not a regular off roader nor that I live in the hills but if I am to make a purchase based on daily runs the at less than 1000 KM per month the petrol seems better suited.

However if I do plan to go places I have to make sure the car would be capable of pulling under full load in situations like hilly inclines with AC on, hence all of these asks. The petrol is lighter and peak power to weight ratio of petrol vs Diesel is also similar. Of course a naturally aspirated petrol and a small turbo big displacement Diesel may or may not be similarly impacted on performance while in low air density situations at higher altitudes.

Can anyone make any suggestions?

Here is the torque curve for the Diesel AT which is a bit higher tuned for Fortuner and Hilux of Toyota, the version in Innova is a bit toned down form of the same. Hence this curve represents marginally higher torques.

[jav]

Originally Posted by haisaikat

I am trying to contemplate between the Innova Crysta 2.7 petrol AT which is naturally aspirated and provides peak torque of 245 NM at 4000 RPM vs the 2.8 Diesel AT which is turbo charged and generates 360 NM at 1200-3400 RPM range

Hi let my share my point of view on the diesel

I have a 2.8Z and the engine is a beast, i have driven in very steep hills including stopping on some crazy hair pin turns, it has hill hold assist and it moves without any issues that too in eco mode with full passengers and ac on all the time, i do most of hill driving on S (sequential not sport) mode and it performs almost like a manual if not better. I usually dont use power or normal mode especially on hills because it picks up speed so fast that you wont notice your moving so quick until you look at the speedo.


Also in S6 mode i am getting 18.7 kmpl with 7 passesngers on 2 lane highways with full time ac



i have not driven the petrol so cant comment on its performance
hopefully i have answered some of your questions do feel free to ask if you have any more .

[haisaikat]

Originally Posted by jav

Hi let my share my point of view on the diesel

I have a 2.8Z and the engine is a beast, i have driven in very steep hills including stopping on some crazy hair pin turns, it has hill hold assist and it moves without any issues that too in eco mode with full passengers and ac on all the time, i do most of hill driving on S (sequential not sport) mode and it performs almost like a manual if not better. I usually dont use power or normal mode especially on hills because it picks up speed so fast that you wont notice your moving so quick until you look at the speedo.

The Z model has hill hold but not in G variant since I am looking for 8 seat configuration. I understand hill hold is very useful. But your feedback on the diesel pulling power is reassuring. Hoping to find someone for petrol feedback too.

Regarding the mileage, it's off topic on this thread so sending you a PM

[maven]

I used to think Manual would be a better as one has greater “control” and the Auto box would take time to “think”.

Having driven an Auto at 6700 Ft. and 7800 Ft. encountering steep gradients, plenty of hairpin bends, an Auto is a better choice over manual in the hills. Downhill sections are easier to drive as you release the accelerator and let the engine do its bit to slow you down. It’s definitely less tiring. And, if it’s a good auto box there are rare “damn it should have upshift already” instances.

[dksv]

My 2 cents.

I’m pretty certain it’s going to be a pain sourcing parts. If you’re already not aware, let me tell you that 99rpm cannot help if Fiat doesn’t. Although it lists all (or most) of the parts, if they can’t source it from FCA India, they’ll put your order in a backorder, meaning the part is awaiting import or worse, waiting for production. After waiting for 9 months in such a queue for a couple of door lock parts for my Punto they closed my order and refunded my money, citing non availability of the said parts with new production plan by the manufacturer. This was in 2018 - imagine now. With no FNG able to fix it, I was living with a malfunctioning door lock.

Despite many such minor inconveniences I did not want to let go of my 8 year Punto for the very same reasons people love it, until its timing belt broke at 60kmph on a bad day and messed up things badly. After 40k damage to the wallet and some jugaad to compensate for out-of-stock parts over 2 months, I sold it at cars24 with the MIL check engine light still on. It was heartbreaking but Fiat is to blame.

[Durango Dude]

I've driven to Kodai in my Honda City CVT, absolutely no problem. How ever if your friend needs better ground clearance I think he can try the BR-V with the same engine gear box combo and also have extra seats. BR-V should be highly discounted as it's been a slow seller.

[goswami.j]

Let me contribute my recent experience here. Last summer I had taken my Hexa XTA - which has one of the sweetest automatic transmission in its price range to the hills of Darjeeling, Gangtok all the way to Tsomgo lake & Nathula pass. The car had 4 adults & 3 kids and ac on most of the way.
Uphill - No issue at all, with the sweet turbo sound & 400 nm of torque tackling even the Gangtok - Nathula Pass steeeep switchbacks without breaking a sweat. Saw a couple of Boleros struggling if they lost momentum. The gearbox downshifts correctly & precisely when needed. This was hardcore Himalayan road climbing & the Hexa performed without breaking a sweat in D, sometime S mode. The hill hold function was also extremely useful.
Downhill - This was another story, in D mode the gears used to shift to to higher gear & the car used to pick up speed , leading to too much undesirable brake use. Shifting to manual mode helped in holding the desired gear & more comfortable downhill speed due to engine breaking.
Thus all in all, I would have preferred to have a manual geared vehicle on the steep & hardcore slopes like the Nathula pass roads. On the normal hills, a good automatic is also pleasant. Hope this helps someone make the right choice.

[dksv]

Originally Posted by dksv

My 2 cents.

I’m pretty certain it’s going to be a pain sourcing parts. If you’re already not aware, let me tell you that 99rpm cannot help if Fiat doesn’t. Although it lists all (or most) of the parts, if they can’t source it from FCA India, they’ll put your order in a backorder, meaning the part is awaiting import or worse, waiting for production. After waiting for 9 months in such a queue for a couple of door lock parts for my Punto they closed my order and refunded my money, citing non availability of the said parts with new production plan by the manufacturer. This was in 2018 - imagine now. With no FNG able to fix it, I was living with a malfunctioning door lock.

Despite many such minor inconveniences I did not want to let go of my 8 year Punto for the very same reasons people love it, until its timing belt broke at 60kmph on a bad day and messed up things badly. After 40k damage to the wallet and some jugaad to compensate for out-of-stock parts over 2 months, I sold it at cars24 with the MIL check engine light still on. It was heartbreaking but Fiat is to blame.

@MODS: I intended to write the above post in response to the following thread. It somehow has landed here incorrectly. My bad. Please could you move it?

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/what-...ml#post4597373 (Does it make any sense to buy the Fiat Linea T-Jet in 2019?)

Thanks

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by punjabibagh

Hi all, need help choosing a new car. My friend, currently based in Delhi, is moving to the hills, relocating to a hamlet close to Mukteshwar. He plans to buy a car that will work well in the hills and also for his runabouts when he drives back to the city. Plans to head back to Delhi not more than once a month, and some local hill driving as well thru the month. Has a budget of approx 9 lacs. Wants to check is automatic is a good choice for the hills. And any other recommendations.

Lucky man. Wish we could also follow suit and vanish away from the wicked cities in which we live!

Saying that, actually I was observing our Glanza
CVT's behaviour up an incline with a couple of curves. Perhaps a 25 to 30 degree incline.

I actually find that when it is at a dead halt but is in drive D mode, it creates enough pull to stop itself rolling backwards despite my non use of the brake at the time.

Yes I can appreciate that on steeper inclines if one were to have to come to a dead halt then it makes good sense to use the L 'Low Gear' mode in order to get started and move uphill.

Thing is, the CVT gearbox will, according to me, work quite well in the hills with relatively minimal effort in terms of comparison to a standard manual where one has to practice anticipatory gear changes and of course make sure to downshift before the typical Hairpin bends etc.

However, unless one uses the L mode on steep inclines the CVT may struggle to enable sufficient momentum while climbing up.

I recently drove an AT Mini Cooper and an M 420d Beemer AT, in the pretty high hills somewhere in Spain and France. Montserrat, Haute Provence, the hills around Monaco, Monte Carlo, the Route Napoleon, Alpes Maritimes, Castillon, Dordogne, Lascaux etc. Lots of lovely steep climbs and descents.

It performed absolutely brilliantly even when I was in normal D mode and not in S Sports mode. No hesitation at all.

In the past I have driven an AT Subaru Forester and Outback in the really high hills of Yorkshire in England.

On various trips to the US I ve driven a variety of different AT cars and jeeps ( Chevy Cruze, Kia Optima, Dodge, Ford Kuga, Patriot, Cherokee, Renegade, Wrangler etc) in different kinds of hilly terrain around Texas, Atlanta, Kentucky, the Cumberland Gap, Smoky Mountains, Blue Ridge Mountains etc)

No problem whatsoever.

Hence, I believe that the various impressions written here, that AT cars arent great in the hills, can very easily be refuted basis my own practical experiences.

In fact I am going to soon actually buy myself an AT Hot Hatch like a Mini Cooper or similar, and indeed I will take it to Coorg and Ooty and so on.