[devansn]

Hi all,

This is my first thread on team-bhp. I posted the same on another thread here (Worthy upgrade for the Linea T-Jet?), but I think it does not have enough visibility. Mods, please merge with another appropriate thread, if required.

What I'm going to write below may sound a bit foolish to most. But that's precisely why I'm writing this, for, I'm confused.

I want to buy a Linea 125S. Yes, the one that's going to go out of production anytime from now. Well, the straight answer is a big NO. I know. But some cars to some are like that - you just wouldn't want to let it go.

While no good friend of mine would encourage me and I wouldn't encourage a friend to buy one at the moment, I just want to explore this option by analyzing step by step. For that I'm dividing this into multiple sections.

1. What good do I see in this car? (In that order)
- Outstanding ride and decent handling in spite of the raised ground clearance.
- Sturdily built. Well, I'm informed about the fact that heavier doesn't essentially mean safer and all that, but I feel sturdiness is important. If I'm not wrong, the reason why the Fiat twins lost their five star safety rating is mostly because of the new advanced electronic aids in safety rather than other parameters related to build and platform. Please correct me here.
- I love the steering feel, precision. The auto centre action is speed sensitive and haven't experienced a better one.
- Decent turbo petrol engine that produces about 123PS.
- Decent set of features that includes auto headlamps, rain sensing wipers, cruise control, leather seats, etc.
- On road price of 11 lakhs or so without discount.
- Decent rear seat space and boot.
- I own a nine year old Punto and my personal experience with Fiat after sales support and warranty replacements is much more than satisfactory.
- Now this car comes with a lot of negatives as well. Old age infotainment system that do not support Apple/Android - I can live with that. Ergonomics: over the years I've become used to it and it's no longer an issue. Long journeys are comfortable. And I find Linea's ergonomics better than that of the Punto.

2. My priorities (Mostly in that order):
a. Ride, handling balance and braking
b. Sturdy build quality
c. Refined turbo petrol
d. Decent space for 5 people
e. About 12 lakhs on road
f. Hatchback or Sedan - don't like the high seating of SUV type cars (can compromise if the above conditions are met)
g. Prefer manual transmission over automatics
h. Features like cruise control, Climate Control, infotainment system with Android Auto / Apple CarPlay, Leather seats. all wheel disk brakes, etc

3. Cars that satisfy a mix of above conditions (As far as I know, in no particular order):
a. Ford Figo / Aspire (Blu variants)
b. Tata Zest 1.2 Revotron
c. Ecosport Diesel or Petrol
d. Verna SX VTVT
e. Polo TSI
f. Tiago / Tigor JTP
g. Wait for Tata Altroz
h. Nexon Diesel XZ+
i. XUV3OO W8

I am not listing the individual comparisons, but I see a lot of value in 125S and still see that it makes a lot of sense. Except that the car may go out of production anytime soon.

How likely is that the Linea parts availability and service becomes a headache in the next 10 years? Since Jeep may still be alive for these years? Also, sites like 99rpm still has Palio spares I think.

It is quite probable that I am biased since I own a car from the same brand and have been happy overall. If that is the case, please help me come out of it.

By the way, I am not sure if this car is already out of production - need to find out over the weekend.

Thanks all in advance!

Devan.

[dhanushs]

Well, since you really like and seem to be sold on the Linea, here's a better idea - Why don't you buy used? For exactly the reasons stated above, you'll be able to get one at a HUGE discount from new.

[deathwalkr]

My cousin wanted to get a Linea T Jet as well as an upgrade from his Punto. He was sold on the pros and his heart wanted him to ignore the cons, but then came the news that Fiat is exiting India and he wisely decided to get a vento tsi instead and make peace with his heart :P

I drive a tjet and it's dated. Don't get me wrong, i love the car [5yrs old now] but would i buy one now? I would not.

[boniver]

It's best to not buy a new Fiat at this stage. If you really like the car, go for it! Please check out used cars like dhanushs has said, and since it's a Fiat you'll get it a lot of lesser than the price of a new one. Fiats lose their value hard and fast.
Purely from a financial standpoint, don't get a new Linea.

[Samba]

After using a Punto, it's difficult to look beyond Fiat. Fiat cars offer a different feel altogether, which none of the modern cars can match within the 12 L price bracket. So i can very well understand your perspective.

If you are looking for a Linea Tjet 125S, you can look at the Abarth too. Fiat is giving huge discounts on the Abarth Punto.

Go for a Fiat, only if you are sure about the following points -

1) You can manage to take the pain of arranging the spares and get it repaired or you are sure, even if Fiat leaves India, you will get good service backup.

2) You are on a road trip with your family and the car gets stranded. It will be difficult to source parts and bring it back.

3) You are not bothered about the resale value.

I will suggest you to consider these options -

1) If new, then the Aspire/Figo/Freestyle TDCI

2) If you are okay with an used car, you can consider the Jetta TDI or a Civic petrol manual! These cars are well build, reliable (specially the civic) & feature loaded.

3) Since you are using a Punto, you must be having some good contacts at FCA. So you can check whether you can get hold of a used Compass!

[gopikb]

Hmmm, I was with a similar predicament last couple of years. I own a Punto from the 2009 batch and have done 92K kms with it so far. It is still going very strong and my wife drives it for work every day.

For long drives, the Punto was still a very good machine. However, with grown up kids, the boot space was becoming a problem. Invariably some of the luggage ends up in the rear seat and the kids started throwing tantrums. That was when I realized we definitely needed a car with boot for out of city drives. In order to ensure that I dont make a wrong choice, I know I cannot depend on short test drives to decide on my highway vehicle.

I had a chance to drive my friend's Duster from Bangalore to Chennai and back and was 100% on the wheel through out the drive. The road presence and high ground clearance was awesome. However, I missed the easiness of driving the Punto on a highway. Duster is no doubt a bigger vehicle and we will need to adjust our driving dynamics accordingly. Somehow it did not pull the strings in my heart.

Same goes with the Innova as well which I drove for a 1000 km round trip to Madurai and back. I have driven my Punto for 700kms stretch to Kanyakumari all the way and still had enough energy and remained fresh to go to the beaches in the evening. But I could not say the same with the bigger cars. If chauffeur driven, then, nothing like the innova. Unfortunately for me, I do the driving myself.

Finally last Nov, when going through the team bhp classifieds, I saw a fellow bhpian selling his 70K km run 2011 Linea Tjet for 3.7 lakhs. I went ahead and bought the car only with the confidence that he is a bhpian and will know importance of maintaining the car. The trust did not backfire and he indeed had maintained the car very well. I have driven the car for 8000 kms since I bought it and it was used only for highway trips. Since I am so used to the driving Dynamics of my MJD Punto, I could feel at home on the Linea Tjet with the more responsive engine right from Day 1.

Leaving all that, the biggest confidence I invested in the second Fiat is because of the presence of Pride Cars near my home in RRNagar, Bangalore. The mechanic Harish is very good and knowledgeable and he clearly identifies if there is any issue and lets me know the part to order with 99rpm.com. I order it and bring it to him and he just replaces it with very minimum charges. My Punto has been serviced by him since the last two years and it is getting better with age. He is now doing the same with Linea as well. I did have a couple of issues once with the clutch master cylinder and the second time with the bush in the link rod connecting gear box. Both times, he asked me to order the right part and got it fixed in no time. I cannot imagine running to Vecto or KHT as the distance itself is a spoilsport.

Too many factors to consider before taking the plunge. Given that FIAT is exiting India, if you ask me if I will buy a brand new Linea, I wont. But I always feel sad that these excellent cars never really sold well.

[pganapathy]

There are multiple cars like the Fiat, which fall into the category of great car, but a nightmare to own in India thanks to lacksadaisical support. The Lancer and Opel's for example. I have friends who own Fiat's and know the mission to go through getting parts now. Imagine when production has been stopped.


With regret I suggest avoiding any car that is struggling in the market, just because servicing it is a major pain

[Kosfactor]

Some of your well wishers have written long responses to stop you from going the Fiat route, so I'm gonna tell you something else.

It does not look good!

Punto Mk1 looks good, Linea however is too tall , and does not look like it belongs to the showroom anymore at least among contemporary cars. The turbo engine is very old school and will drink fuel in the city traffic, there are nice variable valve engines from both Hyundai and Honda that will perform just as well on road trips.

I'm glad you had good experience with Fiat so far, 3 Fiat owners I know do not recommend going anywhere near FCA.

[keroo1099]

As a very very happy Tjet owner, nothing comes close when it comes to driving dynamics and ability on the highway at it's price point, but on everything else considering the situation Fiat is in, it's a BIG no.

Buying a used Jet is an excellent suggestion if you are willing to go through the pain of securing parts and finding a good FNG to service the car.

Good luck.

[d_himan]

I would suggest getting a second hand Jetta TSI instead - not sure about your location, but there are a decent number of pre-owned cars in Mumbai going around at great deals. 2014+ models are a bonus.

Will not give you the same steering feel, but in every other way including ride and handling, sound insulation, space, ergonomics, looks (height to width ratio especially), no bottoming out (unlike Civic) - it's the better car. The servicing is also not as iffy - possible to procure VW parts from Boodmo/Aliexpress/China if the ASS quotes atrocious money.

[Flyer]

Its best not to go for Linea now. Two cars I would suggest based on your requirements will be Vento TSI/TDI (New), Jetta TSI/TDI (Used). Vento TSI dosen't come with a manual gearbox. But trust me the DSG won't disappoint you. Try to do a test drives on both these cars.

Price wise there won't be much difference between VW & Fiat in terms of maintenance or spare parts. Atleast you can have the piece of mind that VW will be staying. Plus VW now offers upto 7 years of extended warranty now.

[Waspune]

The t-jet makes even more sense today. It's an old school car which none of the present generation cars can match in terms of driver involvement and the icing on the cake are the discounts available today.
You already drive a Punto so you would be having some contacts at FASS so service shouldn't be a problem. Spares availability(for slow moving parts) can be a problem at times but that is true for some German cars as well. A friend of mine had to wait for 3 weeks for the front window to arrive for his Jetta. 99rpm is also an option. Another thing to note is that even after Fiat will stop producing the cars (from 1st April 2020) Jeep will be there to cater to fiats' service.

Moreover the 1.4 t-jet is a reliable engine and isn't known to get you stranded if taken proper care.

I would suggest you to go ahead with the t-jet so that you don't regret later. The extra patience (that would be required at times) will easily get offsetted by the driving pleasure. Also you won't get those stupid speed beeps at 80 and 120 km/hr

[GTO]

I'll tell you what makes sense since you are open to Fiats = get a brand new Fiat Punto Abarth! Blackwasp says that brand new ones are still available if you talk to the dealer, pay the full amount and wait for the old stock to arrive from the factory. With the Abarth, you'll face the same issues (outdated, parts issues, service, poor resale, weird ergonomics), but at least it will be WORTH IT . There is simply no 10-lakh hatchback like the Punto Abarth in India, and I doubt we'll be seeing one anytime soon.

Linea? Just a cheap pre-owned piece. Don't get a new one. In fact, even for the Punto Abarth, you'll do well if you can find a nice pre-worshipped one (although I see the sense in buying a new Punto Abarth and holding onto that iconic car for 10 years). Without any exaggeration, I can say that the Punto Abarth is as much fun on the open road as a 70-lakh rupee 530d.

[devansn]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Well, since you really like and seem to be sold on the Linea, here's a better idea - Why don't you buy used? For exactly the reasons stated above, you'll be able to get one at a HUGE discount from new.

Thanks dhanushs!

There are a few reasons why I prefer a new one. One, I want to start a fresh ownership all over again. Since I don't like to change my cars too often (the Punto is 9 years and 1.5 lakh Kms old), I think a new car feel is something I consider valuable. At the same time, I understand the sheer value of getting one that is well kept. My recent searches did not fetch any T Jets in Kerala that are max 4-5 years old. Three, my wifey is against the idea of used cars. I know its a little irrational, but need to consider her emotions too, to a certain extend. She is ok if I am sure about it though.

Originally Posted by deathwalkr

I drive a tjet and it's dated. Don't get me wrong, i love the car [5yrs old now] but would i buy one now? I would not.

Dated purely in terms of age and familiarity or in other parameters like technology, power, fun?

Originally Posted by boniver

It's best to not buy a new Fiat at this stage. If you really like the car, go for it! Please check out used cars like dhanushs has said, and since it's a Fiat you'll get it a lot of lesser than the price of a new one. Fiats lose their value hard and fast.
Purely from a financial standpoint, don't get a new Linea.

Thanks buddy. I perfectly understand your point. And I agree that I am confused.

Originally Posted by Samba

After using a Punto, it's difficult to look beyond Fiat. Fiat cars offer a different feel altogether, which none of the modern cars can match within the 12 L price bracket. So i can very well understand your perspective.

If you are looking for a Linea Tjet 125S, you can look at the Abarth too. Fiat is giving huge discounts on the Abarth Punto.
...

Thanks very much Samba!

One thing is, I don't intend to keep two cars. In that case, I am a bit skeptical about keeping an Abarth as the only car at home.

I am not so worried about getting stranded in normal cases, especially with the petrol turbo Fiats. I am hoping they should do well. I am ready to take the resale value hit. Provided I am able to use the car for more than 10 years.

The Ford cars except EcoSport are not sturdy enough to my liking. Jetta / Civic - thanks for the suggestions, will give it a thought.

Originally Posted by gopikb

Hmmm, I was with a similar predicament last couple of years. I own a Punto from the 2009 batch and have done 92K kms with it so far.
...
Too many factors to consider before taking the plunge. Given that FIAT is exiting India, if you ask me if I will buy a brand new Linea, I wont. But I always feel sad that these excellent cars never really sold well.

Yes, precisely my confusions as well. I am also checking if I can find any worthy used examples here in Kerala.

Originally Posted by pganapathy

There are multiple cars like the Fiat, which fall into the category of great car, but a nightmare to own in India thanks to lacksadaisical support. The Lancer and Opel's for example. I have friends who own Fiat's and know the mission to go through getting parts now. Imagine when production has been stopped.

With regret I suggest avoiding any car that is struggling in the market, just because servicing it is a major pain

Thanks man! Yes, my worry is about using the car for at least the next 10+ years without much of issues with spares and service.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Some of your well wishers have written long responses to stop you from going the Fiat route, so I'm gonna tell you something else.

It does not look good!
...
I'm glad you had good experience with Fiat so far, 3 Fiat owners I know do not recommend going anywhere near FCA.

I agree that the high GC of the new Linea does not give it good looks, but it rides and handles better than competition still. I may be lucky with the service experience.

Originally Posted by keroo1099

As a very very happy Tjet owner, nothing comes close when it comes to driving dynamics and ability on the highway at it's price point, but on everything else considering the situation Fiat is in, it's a BIG no.

Buying a used Jet is an excellent suggestion if you are willing to go through the pain of securing parts and finding a good FNG to service the car.

Good luck.

As mentioned above, yes, I am checking if there are good examples available in Kerala.

Originally Posted by d_himan

I would suggest getting a second hand Jetta TSI instead - not sure about your location, but there are a decent number of pre-owned cars in Mumbai going around at great deals. 2014+ models are a bonus.

Will not give you the same steering feel, but in every other way including ride and handling, sound insulation, space, ergonomics, looks (height to width ratio especially), no bottoming out (unlike Civic) - it's the better car. The servicing is also not as iffy - possible to procure VW parts from Boodmo/Aliexpress/China if the ASS quotes atrocious money.

Thanks very much for the suggestion, but still a little skeptical about the ease and cost-effectiveness of maintaining a few years old Jetta. I will surely explore this option though.

Originally Posted by Flyer

Its best not to go for Linea now. Two cars I would suggest based on your requirements will be Vento TSI/TDI (New), Jetta TSI/TDI (Used). Vento TSI dosen't come with a manual gearbox. But trust me the DSG won't disappoint you. Try to do a test drives on both these cars.

Price wise there won't be much difference between VW & Fiat in terms of maintenance or spare parts. Atleast you can have the piece of mind that VW will be staying. Plus VW now offers upto 7 years of extended warranty now.

I have not driven the TSI yet, but have driven my cousin's NA petrol Polo extensively - I never liked the steering and ride / handling of it. Not sure if Vento is much different?

Originally Posted by Waspune

The t-jet makes even more sense today. It's an old school car which none of the present generation cars can match in terms of driver involvement and the icing on the cake are the discounts available today.
...
Moreover the 1.4 t-jet is a reliable engine and isn't known to get you stranded if taken proper care.

I would suggest you to go ahead with the t-jet so that you don't regret later. The extra patience (that would be required at times) will easily get offsetted by the driving pleasure. Also you won't get those stupid speed beeps at 80 and 120 km/hr

Thanks! Gives so much of confidence!

Originally Posted by GTO

I'll tell you what makes sense since you are open to Fiats = get a brand new Fiat Punto Abarth! Blackwasp says that brand new ones are still available if you talk to the dealer, pay the full amount and wait for the old stock to arrive from the factory. With the Abarth, you'll face the same issues (outdated, parts issues, service, poor resale, weird ergonomics), but at least it will be WORTH IT . There is simply no 10-lakh hatchback like the Punto Abarth in India, and I doubt we'll be seeing one anytime soon.

Linea? Just a cheap pre-owned piece. Don't get a new one. In fact, even for the Punto Abarth, you'll do well if you can find a nice pre-worshipped one (although I see the sense in buying a new Punto Abarth and holding onto that iconic car for 10 years). Without any exaggeration, I can say that the Punto Abarth is as much fun on the open road as a 70-lakh rupee 530d.

Thanks very much for the suggestions GTO! Its great and equally a shame that the Fiats are well appreciated even today by people with so much of experience.
One of my issues, apart from some mentioned above, is that I am planning to keep only one car. Not sure how practical it would be to have an Abarth as the only car - although it is indeed leagues ahead in dynamics when compared to the Linea TJet, the extra space, boot and features that the Linea gives is what is making me think.

How about a new Linea TJet with a suspension upgrade and may be a remap?

[Waspune]

Originally Posted by devansn

How about a new Linea TJet with a suspension upgrade and may be a remap?

While I will also support Abarth viz t-jet but even the stock t-jet is no slouch. It has more than adequate power. It rides higher than before but is still has a brilliant ride and handling balance. At lower speeds the ride might seem a little bumpy on bad roads but as you will speed up it will become flat in a true fiat fashion. Handling wise it still is one of the best of not best in the segment that too with 190 mm of GC.
I would suggest you to start driving the t-jet in the stock form and then see if you need any upgrade in suspension and power.