[Aish_4761]

Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar

Here is 20 year 800. I don't think it will have trouble reaching 30 years.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-...s-pg-27-a.html (The love of my life - A 2000 Maruti 800 DX 5-Speed. EDIT: Gets export model features on Pg 27)

It all depends on the upkeep. A good car with proper care can easily last 30 years.

Well the Golden goose is surely an inspiration. Besides, I am still driving my 2003 Alto Lx (17+ years) but, here is the catch, the companies figured out they can't survive if they keep on making such long lasting products hence, todays tin can quality crashed through the doors..!!

Back to the topic;
Since the gentleman is retiring, and he is not looking in for spirited driving, I would like to propose the Polo 1.0l. Additionally, polo has been an extremely successful model across the globe and VW is doing more than fine in India so spare scarcity wont be an issue Plus he gets the tank build, keeping him safe amidst the chaotic Indian traffic. Moreover, if he can live with only front power windows, he can save a few bucks there by buying the bottom end variant and invest it so that the money grows and he can get a new car in the next 15 years with upgraded safety and newer features because 30 years, it is seriously too much to ask for.

[DevOnWheels]

My suggestion would be to get a less run end of its time F10D Wagon R. I'am owning a 2006 F10D Wagon R and apart from rust in exhaust and suspension leakage the car is utter reliable. Not a single issue inside the bonnet yet.

Also a less run Etios petrol would be a great choice. But please keep an eye for odo tempering. As less run Etios is hard to find.

If new, than a Ignis or Wagon R 1.2 with stick shift should be the choice.

Attaching a couple of pics of my 15 year old F10D Waggy..

[ashwinprakas]

So here goes, we've sat down and talked about all possible options as well as did part replacement cost research with the Help of Boodmo and spares outlets and have shortlisted the following based on discounts and TD offered;

1. Maruti Suzuki Alto 800 VXi, while going for a test drive I was fairly surprised how the car could haul 3 oversized folks like us without any AC Lag, we tried going On and Off the AC while in final gear at lower revs just to feel and see if the car would slouch like older generation Alto's but it didn't, hats off to MS for tuning the A800 to be done with this infamous irritant.

The VXi variant seemed decent considering that it comes with internally adjustable ORVM's that costs roughly 1k per side to replace and a BT enabled music system, yes its cheaper to installed those separately cause the VXI comes at a premium of 27k, but then again the price isn't that much taking into consideration addition of Passenger Side Air bag as well.

OTR Price: 4,27,200/-

2. Tata Tiago XE, We've only driven the AMT variant so far as they're yet to bring the MT over for a TD, the upside is that the car feels solid, makes the Swift look pathetic in comparison, especially the base variant, I guess it would be safe to call this the poor mans Polo. BUT the engine was pathetic and I say this not merely by having driven the Swift, but by comparing the Alto 800 as well as my 15 year old Zen. The engine simply doesn't want to rev, though it has decent torque spread down low, up the range it just makes noise. The upside is that the base variant comes with mirrors that roughly cost 2k compared to the 7.5k of its top spec model, and other consumables also seem to be fairly priced for what's on offer.

In two wheeler terms this would be the FZ16, handles well and rides solid but seriously lacks some oomph.

Also mentioning the reason why we skipped the Swift LXi, car is fairly simply and fun to drive which matches our requirement, also the interiors are black so that gets brownie points but what was seriously lacking was that the ORVM's weren't internally adjustable, the speedo unit for the base variant is plain pathetic and worst was when shifting gears the passengers knee does come in the way if the passenger is sitting comfortably, this is expected at the price range of the A800, but not at the Swifts IMHO.

OTR Price: 5,58,381/-

3. Hyundai Santro Asta, with the exception of the Alto this is the only other car that we're contemplating going for the top end variant, cause the car is a fair commuter with good brakes and since there isn't much to offer an enthusiast what made us add this to the list is that the car is quite spacious for both driver as well as rear seat passengers. Another reason to add this was that though we couldn't procure the spares price list we were told that the electronic ORVM costs about 3k to replace which is half of what Tata asks, also to note owners have told us that component costs are inline with MS so that's a plus in our books. Also there is no fouling with passenger's knee.

OTR Price: 6,66,166/-

What is obvious at this point is that after considering the valid point that MS is not entirely Indian I was able to squeeze in other manufacturers as well into the pool. Life expectancy of car has been reduced as advised by many and along with that budget, the remaining of which is set aside for the next car, which also could possibly be a EV as advised by many bhpians with respect to the pace at which India is pushing towards cleaner emission norms.

As for usage, it would do annual 500~1000km's drives, the rest would be short commutes, but then people do tend to change with time so for all I know he'd be bashing the car on the interstate like I do my CT100B.

Do share your thoughts if I've missed anything.

Thanks!
A.P.

[AYP]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

3. Hyundai Santro Asta,
OTR Price: 6,66,166/-

Since you are considering the top end Santro, how about considering the Ignis Delta or the Zeta. The Delta will cost you 15k less than the Santro and the Zeta will cost you 15k more.

In the Ignis, you get a car which is half, if not one segment above the Santro. You get better space, a much better engine with higher ground clearance, Maruti peace of mind and you won't have to deal with the basic instrument console of the Swift Lxi. With the Delta, you will miss on some of the features vs the Santro but the overall package more than makes up for it. And with the Zeta, it's practically a no-brainer.

Thus, I would suggest exploring the Ignis as it is a much better package than the Santro or its own Wagon-R when you compare their top variants to the mid variants of the Ignis.

[Cessna182]

You should try to get more discounts on the Tiago XE. Even last year the tiago top model automatic was selling for around 6.5 OTR. Base variant will be much lower. Try around 5 OTR with a 5 year warranty, especially in December when they're keen to give more discounts.

As for the engine, yes it is puny but it is also the most well insulated of the lot. A large part of the thrill we feel in Maruti cars is due to the abysmal insulation.

Source- check Tiago 0 to 100 times. It is around 13.6 seconds on the Tiago. Swift is 12.5 seconds. Alto is over 18 seconds. That 1 second difference compared to swift won't matter in real life. Ignis is also around 13.6 seconds. Just search these results and you will get them from various portals.

Also, ask the Tata folks to get a serviced car. A clean air filter will affect your driving experience positively

[srini1785]

Why the sudden drop of budget from :

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

A middle aged gentleman I know is nearing retirement and is on the lookout for a 4 Wheeler that sits within the 10L price bracket OTR.

To :

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

1. Maruti Suzuki Alto 800 VXi,

OTR Price: 4,27,200/-

2. Tata Tiago XE,

OTR Price: 5,58,381/-

3. Hyundai Santro Asta,

OTR Price: 6,66,166/-

As @GTO has suggested, @10L budget you can get the newly released Kia Sonet.

My Suggestion is : GO ELECTRIC MAN

[Aaron:)]

How about a base model Yaris? It’s a Toyota, it’s safe, it’s sturdy.

[sodapop]

Originally Posted by Cessna182

As for the engine, yes it is puny but it is also the most well insulated of the lot. A large part of the thrill we feel in Maruti cars is due to the abysmal insulation.

Sir I beg to differ. Tiago is by far the worst when it comes to NVH levels in the segment. Infact it's a scientific fact given that it's a 3cyl engine without a balancer shaft compared to the 1.2 of Maruti which is a 4cyl. Please experience both the engines for yourself before passing comments

Source- check Tiago 0 to 100 times. It is around 13.6 seconds on the Tiago. Swift is 12.5 seconds. Alto is over 18 seconds. That 1 second difference compared to swift won't matter in real life. Ignis is also around 13.6 seconds. Just search these results and you will get them from various portals.

We are talking about a car for an aged gentleman. 0-100 times won't come of use ever in the car's whole life. The car might not even touch 100kmph ever in its life

[Cessna182]

Originally Posted by sodapop

Sir I beg to differ. Tiago is by far the worst when it comes to NVH levels in the segment. Infact it's a scientific fact given that it's a 3cyl engine without a balancer shaft compared to the 1.2 of Maruti which is a 4cyl. Please experience both the engines for yourself before passing comments



We are talking about a car for an aged gentleman. 0-100 times won't come of use ever in the car's whole life. The car might not even touch 100kmph ever in its life

I have driven the Tiago, WagonR, Swift and Alto for extended periods of time. If you think Tiago is the worst, it would be better to prove that using actual decibel readings from a noise meter app. Tiago is around 40DB in a silent surrounding at idle and Alto is 45+. Didn't measure on the Swift and WagonR, but you can do so since you are so confident about it being "the worst". As for the balancer shaft, it is present in post 2018 models and request you to update yourself.

I mentioned the 0 to 100 times because people keep saying the car doesn't have a good pickup- I mean what other metric can you use to define pickup? Talk with stats and data not opinions.

Anyway, not my business to justify any choice since I am not sponsored by any of them. Good day

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by AYP

Since you are considering the top end Santro, how about considering the Ignis Delta or the Zeta. The Delta will cost you 15k less than the Santro and the Zeta will cost you 15k more.

Not a fan of MS to be honest after TD'ing their current line-up, after spending some time with other brands everything with the exception of the A800 and SPresso feels overpriced.

Granted there are other advantages like serviceability and spare availability to an extent but we personally feel the asking price isn't worth it.

Originally Posted by Cessna182

You should try to get more discounts on the Tiago XE.

Tried my best but the discounts are largely limited;

Tiago 15k
Altroz 0
Nexon 10k

I do find this strange as its year end and usually for motorcycles that's when prices considerably drop.

Attaching price list for reference;

As for the engine, yes it is puny but it is also the most well insulated of the lot. A large part of the thrill we feel in Maruti cars is due to the abysmal insulation.

That is true, the Swift for example after driving the Tiago feels like a Tin Can on wheels, a remark said by myself as well as the prospective buyer after driving the car.

Source- check Tiago 0 to 100 times. It is around 13.6 seconds on the Tiago. Swift is 12.5 seconds. Alto is over 18 seconds. That 1 second difference compared to swift won't matter in real life. Ignis is also around 13.6 seconds. Just search these results and you will get them from various portals.

Also, ask the Tata folks to get a serviced car. A clean air filter will affect your driving experience positively

After the stint with AMT we did TD the manual and whatever refinement I felt with the AMT simply went out the window, the car sure is peppy but the AMT makes the car feel quite refined compared to jittery when I was the one shifting gears on the MT, even at idle I could feel quite a bit of vibrations, the showroom people did try to convince me that the same was normal but I simply didn't bite.

Again could simpy be an issue with the car they had on offer;



After seeing the i10 Nios being mentioned somewhere on TBhp we'd gone for a TD on the AMT variant and it was quite disappointing, the car which we'd got had massive transmission lag similar to how motorcycles would starve for fuel before we turn supply to reserve, the showroom people were the most friendliest and did offer quite a bit of discount but the buyer being impressionable lost interest in the brand.

Originally Posted by srini1785

Why the sudden drop of budget from

Buying an aspirational car and keeping it for decades seemed like an unreasonable ask after going through user experiences, after that it was just a matter of time before every lakh spent now on something that is meant to be replaced seemed wasteful, the buyer was still insisting on getting a bigger car but this was mostly my influence cause I went a step further and computed spare costs of parts most likely to be replaced in the near future and the numbers didn't paint a good picture for premium offerings.

Extended warranties and such make sense for someone eager to depend on ASC's but we're the kind who seldom claim insurance and prefer to pay out of our pockets in the interest of saving time and peace of mind, trend which I personally follow with my motorcycles as well, all of them are out of warranty within the first couple days of ownership and after the first year I don't even bother to pay for comprehensive insurance cause worst come I cut my losses and just walk away counting my blessings.

Again, this might seem financially stupid but the independence on offer is something that's much appreciated, which again is why we look into part replacement costs even before buying a brand new vehicle, something even showroom people and the womenfolk in our family find absurd.

Originally Posted by Aaron:)

How about a base model Yaris? It’s a Toyota, it’s safe, it’s sturdy.

We did have a look at the same but the OTR was above the initial budget so didn't look further, and now its simply out of scope after reconsidering priorities.

Regards,
A.P.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Cessna182

I
I mentioned the 0 to 100 times because people keep saying the car doesn't have a good pickup- I mean what other metric can you use to define pickup?

Tiago petrol at launch had diesel like vibrations at idle, the one I drove later in 2018 was surprisingly refined, from your post I understand that it's due to a balancer shaft being added.

you are right about outright performance and 0-100 timings however drive ability, throttle response under normal driving conditions can vary quite a bit. Duster 110 vs Bolero Power+ is a good place to start.

Therefore 'pickup' is perhaps a seat of the pants feel, all the more reasons to throw numbers out of the window and get the car you enjoy driving.

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

As for usage, it would do annual 500~1000km's drives, the rest would be short commutes, but then people do tend to change with time so for all I know he'd be bashing the car on the interstate like I do my CT100B.

Do share your thoughts if I've missed anything.

Thanks!
A.P.

From your list AP , it's going to be Santro if planning highway runs I would prefer that engine + gearbox, it's very refined. The Tiago engine in the 2018 model felt refined however not as good as the hyundai unit , I do like the small suzuki engines but the vehicles themselves don't like being out on the open road. Tiago and Santro are bigger, bigger is always better on highways.

Please keep in mind that ECU disengages the AC compressor when you step on the A pedal depending on the load for most cars these days , so the Turbo boost AC button on the good old Zen is a thing of the past

[Living2Drive]

I would suggest a 2012 to 2016 model Innova with company service records, or a used Etios Liva. these two are known for their durability and trouble free maintenance.

[chiefpk]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Tried my best but the discounts are largely limited;

Tiago 15k
Altroz 0
Nexon 10k

Regards,
A.P.

Hi aswin,

Really warms my heart to see that your old man is shifting towards the Tiago. I seriously think there's more discounts which can be arranged. I can assure you of one more thing, the NVH is not an issue at all below 2500 rpm. Vibrations are present at idle but when moving things are absolutely fine. You took a TD and I don't think it would have disappointed you.

Let me tell you my case. We booked the Tigor at 7.53 when the asking price in the list was 7.86 in New Delhi. Official discounts were 15k and 2.5k cash and corporate respectively.


So there's definetely more room for negotiation. May be try changing dealerships or stuff but don't bargain too much with the SA till a point he gets annoyed. You know better about this since you are more experienced than me sir.

Regards

Pranav

[Subby]

I have been following this thread keenly, as I am also in the same boat. I am 54, will be retiring in another 3-4 years or may be earlier due to current economic scenario. I am also planning to buy a car which I would like to keep till the end of its official useful service life.

Right now, I am using a Wagon R Stingray Vxi(O) 2014 make and I would like to share my views and what I have decided.

Earlier, I owned Maruti 800 DX 5 speed, Maruti Ritz Zxi, Honda City VMT. Also, I have experienced use of Honda WRV, Suzuki Swift and Hyundai Xcent. I travel a lot, mostly on highways and keep normal cruising speed around 80 kms/hr. From my perspective, following things are important to me as a middle aged person.

1> New and small petrol Car, manual transmission, top model.
2> Smooth and Reliable Engine/vehicle - NA petrol ( Yes, turbo petrol is buzz word now, but I do not need that, ease of maintenance is more important to me )
3> Fuel Efficient – regular income would be no more!
3> Easy Ingress and Egress
3> Upright seating position with good airy cabin; should not feel claustrophobic.
4> Comfortable seats suitable for long drive.
6> Good after sales service and spare availability, I do not like botheration on this area.
7> Useful feathers – Alloy wheels, Fog lamps, Rear Wash and Wipers with Demister, All four power windows, Foldable back seats with 60:40 split, leather wrapped steering wheel, Good stock sound system.

Yes, I know safety rating is important, but to take safety rating into account, I have limited selections in small cars. So, jotted down following options

1> Repeat purchase Maruti Wagon R 1.2 ZXi (But it does not have alloy wheels and adjustable head rests) – Safety rating unknown.
2> Hyundai Nios 1.2 Asta (Does not have adjustable head rest for front seats), Safety rating 2 stars. No split rear seats.
3> TATA Tiago – Good compact car, 4 star safety rated, some of the required features are missing. Never experienced use of TATA cars before, except Ola, Uber. None of my known acquaintances has this car. But can be considered as a safe vehicle with most of the useful features for highway drive.

For the time being, I will wait for upgrade/facelifts of Wagon R 1.2 with expectations that Maruti would incorporate mentioned missing features in their next model.

I really like versatility of Wagon R.

[JithinR]

Originally Posted by Subby

1> Repeat purchase Maruti Wagon R 1.2 ZXi (But it does not have alloy wheels and adjustable head rests) – Safety rating unknown.
3> TATA Tiago – Good compact car, 4 star safety rated, some of the required features are missing.

Can't help you with your query sir since I don't have the requisite experience with cars and more importantly our priorities might be completely different.

But would like to inform that WagonR has been tested and got the expected 2 stars with unstable body shell remark.

FactSheet - http://www.globalncap.org/wp-content...zukiWAGONR.pdf
Video -

https://youtu.be/KDNkZY3aChc

You can view all the GNCAP tested made for India cars under this page - http://www.globalncap.org/results/