[sam264_2000]

My fellow BHPians,

I recently got my Team-BHP membership in my 2nd attempt (THANK YOU MODS!) so I am excited to be an active member of this community.
I am in a dilemma here choosing my next ride between 5th Gen Honda City, 2nd Gen Creta and Kia Seltos. Can you guys please share your wisdom?

Background:
My current ride is a well maintained, fuss free November 2014 Tata Zest XT Revotron (Petrol top end), run approx. 61k kms. I love my Zest for its strong and heavy build quality (GNCAP 4 stars - https://auto.economictimes.indiatime...-test/55473401 ), fantastic ground clearance, Harman Kardon infotainment and decent space and would be sad to let it go.

Reasons to upgrade:
1. Need for an automatic - My daily drive has been 50kms in bumper to bumper traffic for the past 6 years. Even with the current corona situation, our offices are open since May and I go to office at least 2 weeks per month. Traffic situation isn’t easing up either due to the ongoing metro construction.
2. More powerful engine – Zest’s puny 1.2L Petrol requires frequent downshifts in city as well as on highways. This takes a toll on my left leg no matter how light the clutch is or how smooth the transmission is.
3. A bigger and powerful car inspires confidence and urge to go on long drives/vacations and retain them longer.
4. Zest is out of production since April 2019.
5. I don’t achieve much by delaying the purchase because the segment of cars that I want to upgrade to won’t change with time. I have a tight parking spot which can accommodate only certain size of cars (up to midsize Sedans or Crossovers only). I don’t intend to upgrade to a higher segment by saving additional money if I delay the purchase. In fact, I lose money if I delay the purchase now – Zest depreciates even further and also the segment of cars that I want to go for keep getting more expensive.
6. The car would be financed no matter whenever the purchase is. This is a conscious decision based on my other financial commitments.
7. My neighbor is interested in my car for his relatives and has offered me a good price. Selling the car now ensures that the new owner has sufficiently longer period of ownership before the BS4 RC expires.

Upgrade criteria:
1. Must be more powerful than Zest – minimum 1.5L Petrol or Diesel
2. Must be an automatic – only CVT/IVT and TC are considered. No DCT due to long term reliability.
3. Better safety features:

Must haves:
a. 6 airbags
b. Electronic Stability Control
c. Traction Control
d. Hill Hold Assist
e. Vehicle Stability Management
f. All wheel disc brakes (desirable)

4. Spacious than Zest (interior space + boot). We are a family of 3 but are heavy packers. Boot should accommodate a minimum of 3 to 4 medium sized bags + 1 small duffle bag. For reference, Zest boot size is 390 liters and it accommodates 2 adult cabin sized bags + 1 small kid size cabin bag + 2 sacks + 1 small duffle bag.
5. Long term reliability since the ownership period will be 8 to 10 years.
6. Fuel type - any
7. Budget – 17 lakh on road but willing to extend up to 20 lakh.

Usage pattern:
1. 80% City and 20% Highway
2. My primary car for office runs + highway outings.

Shortlisted Cars:
Note that I am yet to test drive any of these cars. Only top end variants are considered.

1. 5th Gen Honda City ZX CVT
Pros:
a. Meets all my criteria except all wheel disc brakes.
b. 5 Star ASEAN safety rating which may translate to similar or 4 star rating in GNCAP.
c. Reliability of the iVTEC engine for a decade or more compared to Hyundai’s Petrol engine. We have 3 iVTEC’s in my relatives lasting more than a decade without any issues.
d. Honda maintenance costs compared to Hyundai or Kia. My sister’s 15 year old Santro is more expensive to maintain than her 8 year old City.
e. Looks – I and my wife both love the City’s looks compared to Creta.
f. Feel of luxury and space inside the cabin.

Cons which aren’t deal breakers:
a. So called low ground clearance issue – My father drives a 2016 Jazz iDTEC and has had no concerns with the ground clearance till date. I assume Jazz and City have the same ground clearance. We have driven Jazz with 4 adults and boot full with luggage and did not face any issues. But Jazz is a size smaller than City. Will the front overhang of the 5th Gen City cause issues?
b. Entertainment head unit is average as per reviews with average quality of rear view camera and lane watch. I am yet to see it myself.

2. Hyundai Creta or Kia Seltos:

Pros:
a. IMO, higher ground clearance and all wheel disc brakes are the only major advantages of these cross overs.
b. Better screen resolution of the infotainment. And may be better sound quality of the Bose speakers compared to City’s music system.
c. Lesser length than City – could be an advantage for me given my corner parking spot.
d. Both sides’ blind spot monitoring and 360 degree parking camera of Seltos.
e. Front parking sensors of Seltos
f. Auto Hold feature of Creta.

Cons:
a. 3 stars in GNCAP for Seltos for a 21 lakh INR car. Will Hyundai score similar given the production efficiencies between Hyundai & Kia?
b. My wife has motion sickness and is of the opinion that this issue will aggravate in Creta/Seltos due to body roll and higher center of gravity.
c. Too many electronics – Ventilated Seats, Panoramic Sunroof, Electrically adjusted driver seat, air purifier – none of these are must have’s for me. How reliable are these in the long run? What’s the maintenance like? I have checked CarDekho’s pros-cons of Sunroof and kind of agree with them -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itJdK4GhS0c

d. Lesser boot and cabin space than City.
e. Cost cutting – no full size spare alloy wheel; no auto up/down for all 4 windows; driver side window up/down buttons aren’t backlit; doesn’t have both tilt & telescopic steering for Creta – IMO, all these add to a positive driving and ownership experience. City checkmarks on all these.
f. Hard plastics behind the front seats of top variants is an eye sore.
g. Pricey – Creta petrol top end is 2.5 lakh over my budget and Creta/Seltos diesel top end is 4 lakh over my budget. But then I do agree with GTO’s https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/buyin...to-longer.html (How a more expensive car can work out cheaper (if you hold onto it for longer))

Am I thinking on the right lines? Is this the right time to go for an upgrade? I would like to wait for Honda HR-V Crossover or Honda City Hybrid but given the pace at which Honda reacts to Indian market, I don’t think these cars will reach India shores till 2022 at least.
Thank you for reading this patiently.

[jothishX]

Going by your requirements, I would suggest to go for the City ZX CVT. It fits all your needs and is in budget. The ground clearance and underbody scraping issue had improved with the 4th generation. Can't suggest Creta as I'm yet to get in terms with its ugly looks. But it has better and softer suspension than seltos. And got pano roof and EPB as well.
Ride quality is a problem in my Seltos. My parents feel nauseous in the rear seat due to the stiff suspension and constant body rolls. I've driven a WRV extensively and its seat comfort and ride quality is much better than the Seltos. So would be the City. Coming to the electronic gadgetry, the only stuff I find useful are the 360 cam, ICE and ventilated seats. With the 5 year extended warranty, any unintentional damages would be covered.

4th Gen City had that crap quality touch screen and touch AC controls. They have updated those in the 5th Gen. There is lanewatch. 360 cam can be added after market for less than 20k. If you can manage the extra length, go for the City.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by sam264_2000

Background:
My current ride is a well maintained, fuss free November 2014 Tata Zest XT Revotron (Petrol top end), run approx. 61k kms. I love my Zest for its strong and heavy build quality (GNCAP 4 stars), fantastic ground clearance, Harman Kardon infotainment and decent space and would be sad to let it go.

Will the Tata Harrier fit in your parking lot? If yes, please have a look at that car too. With past Tata experience, upgrading within the family will be great for you and you will be familiar with all the SA's around.

EDIT: Since you have decided to look at Top end variants, Harrier is then out of question.

If Harrier doesn't work out, then look for the 2020 Creta 1.5L SX IVT (Petrol) - ₹15,05,900 or 1.5L SX CRDi TC - ₹ 16,10,900. These are Ex-showroom prices taken from Hyundai India website for Pune.

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by sam264_2000

My fellow BHPians,
....

Given your good experience with sedan and since you want to avoid motion sickness, I would recommend the City. For the cost of a mid variant Seltos/Creta, you will get a fully loaded top variant City.

Do note that the seating of the City is lower than Zest. Even though Zest is a sedan, it's seating posture is crossover-ish.

Regarding ground clearance, if the Zest has managed it, City wouldn't fall far behind if driven a little carefully.

Do take an extended test drive of all three cars before taking a call.

[Candy$Cars]

Go ahead with the City. You have enjoyed good ride quality with the Zest. The Seltos and Creta have stiff suspensions to give them good handling owing to them being higher off the ground. On the Other hand, the 5th gen City's ride quality is very improved over the the 4th Gen. You and your parents will like it. Sure the Ground Clearance is a problem and you will have to be careful over bad roads.

The Entertainment Unit isn't bad. Sure the Creta and the Seltos have better ones, but the City's will be still a big improvement over the Zest's and I guess that is what matters. Honestly, after buying a car and barely one year down the road, will it really matter that much if it has all the useful functions? On the other hand, if your wife feels sick, it will become a real headache. And honestly, it is really difficult to gauge this in a test-drive, it is only after you own the car and take 2-3 long drives that you will be sure that your wife is actually comfortable.
Plus with the City you get the ultra-smooth CVT, an extremely reliable I-Vtec engine and Honda cars are very reliable over all. It will be a delight for a long-term ownership.

The only reason I will recommend Creta/Seltos is if you want a panoramic sunroof or need the extra ground clearance. If you decide to go ahead with the Creta/Seltos, do take extensive test-rides over all kinds of roads to make sure you are okay with the ride quality. A lot of people just go ahead with them because they liked them in the showroom, the bling attracted them, their friends recommended them or because they are selling in good numbers and then have to adjust to the ride.

With regard to the electronics, I don't know the longevity but I don't have much hopes for them. They are good to have but rarely anyone uses them after the initial frenzy drowns out. Seeing how Hyundai cars are failing on mechanical components so early in the ownership, I don't know how the electronics will hold up. But take this with a pinch of salt, someone who owns the Verna/Creta with ventilated seats will be able to say better.

I would also like to recommend you the Harrier if you can stretch to the XZA. Couple it up with some year-end discounts, you will have the best upgrade to the Zest possible right now in the market - think along with what GTO said! A fantastic diesel engine mated to a reliable torque convertor, it will be a good upgrade.

[petrolHead_1609]

Voted for Honda City.


I have been in the exact same situation but as my work has been completely remote since March and with next to zero running of current vehicle until things are back to normal, I have delayed the purchase.

Originally Posted by sam264_2000

Upgrade criteria:
...
5. Long term reliability since the ownership period will be 8 to 10 years.
6. Fuel type - any
7. Budget – 17 lakh on road but willing to extend up to 20 lakh.

Having the exact same criteria (apart from transmission-I prefer manual), let me share my thoughts.

Why not creta/seltos
1. I was too much inclined towards creta but since the launch I couldn't get my head around the variants and feature distribution and found top-ends too pricey.
2. To have 2+ airbags, you got to take the absolute top of the line trim (which for me was not ideal as it wasn't in manual)
3. Added GC has gotten hyped alot recently, I don't say its not needed but all the cars are now in acceptable GC figures. (Also, I don't think we'll have roads these bad in another 3-4 years)
4. 1.5L NA is bland, 1.4L turbo is hoot but somehow I don't see that engine and DCT go trouble free for 5+ years.
5. Having 2 hyundais at home (2012 i10 and 2016 grand i10) and 1 with sister (2019 i20), we had trusted hyundai for a long time but somehow I don't feel confident about all the gizmos lately.
6. Most relevant of all, SAFETY. Of course having added airbags and all the features tend to increase safety but it still leaves the bodyshell as unstable. (This is after you have gone way over your comfortable budget)
Although seltos is 3 star rated, its borderline score. 0.04 points less and its a 2 star. I do feel Creta would surely get 2 stars based on the seltos-creta platform comparison

Why Honda City
1. Its still iconic and is still a head turner in sea of creta and seltos.
2. Unlike Hyundai, they have worked on niggles/complaints from previous gen. (Infamous steering and brake issues from hyundai)
3. No doubt about the long lasting nature of that engine and CVT. Easily the sweetest NA in given budget or even above it.
4. Better aerodynamics, better fuel efficiency. (Has been said equally fun to drive until 120 kmph when compared to benchmark in segment, i.e Rapid. Just upgrade to 195 or 205 and you are set)
5. Better rear seat and boot (Although in creta, you could fold rear seats and have added boot)
6. Absolutely your pick of your choice as all the variants can be had with CVT unlike variant choice being pushed down your throat.
7. SAFETY. You don't really have to pick top end just to get decent safety kit. Although seltos crash test proved not to assume safety rating based on THUD but I'd still be in the same boat with you in considering it to be 4 star.
8. FITS IN THE BUDGET. Most important of all.

Added points which I am considering for my purchase, I hope you find these helpful.
1. Keeping car for 10 years, I see Honda City ageing better and facing less issues compared to other choices.
2. Could be my last fossil fuel vehicle, having a legendary one would feel sweet (I know lately its not that good but that's based on its comparison with City itself and not others in segment)
3. As I have time in hand of atleast another 6-8 months (You don't want to hold onto zest for longer but I'm not sure how immediate it is) , SUVs still do have their charm and I am looking for creta competitor from skoda/VW (vision IN) as they would give fun and reliability of TSi, hoping it to be safer but even they come with their drawback of hefty service bills and not so good ASS.
Another hope I have is from XUV500 but that can be had in base or base+1 variant for defined budget and that misses out on 6 airbags criteria for you.

Hope this helps.
Keep us updated.

[MUJ]

Voted for others.

I'd suggest you to look at the Nissan Kicks. It has a great 1.3 Turbo petrol mated to a CVT. It has all the safety requirements such as ESP, 4 Airbags, Hill Hold and Cruise control. It is also feature loaded with Connected car tech and 360 degree camera. It also fits into your budget. You can check out the detailed ownership report by BHPian @Godzilla.

If not choose the 5th Gen City.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by sam264_2000

I am in a dilemma here choosing my next ride between 5th Gen Honda City, 2nd Gen Creta and Kia Seltos.
Am I thinking on the right lines? Is this the right time to go for an upgrade? I would like to wait for Honda HR-V Crossover or Honda City Hybrid but given the pace at which Honda reacts to Indian market, I don’t think these cars will reach India shores till 2022 at least.

Of all three, I would recommend the Honda City as it fits your requirements the best. A fuss-free FTD car, reliable and ages well.
I would have recommended the S-Cross as it fits your requirements well too(including the size and concerns about GC) and would have been a natural upgrade from the Zest without being too SUV-ish but that 4 speed automatic is a downer. If you want to try, take a TD.

I would say its the right time to go for an upgrade unless you want to use the Zest for its full service life(10-15 years).
In that case the resale wouldn't matter, and you would have enjoyed the car to the max

While I am expecting some good launches in the Seltos/Creta segment in 2021-22 from Mahindra/Ford and maybe Maruti-Toyota but not much in sedans.
If you want to wait for something better in sedans in that price range you should be prepared to wait for at least 2-3 years but also be prepared for a lower resale for the Zest. How does it add up in rupees and are you ok with it, that's for you to decide.
I don't think waiting for the HR-V or Honda City hybrid is worth it.

As for the pros and cons you have them well sorted.
One con I would like to add in the Seltos is the braking issue which has been discussed in this thread (Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos). Although small in number but a potential concern nonetheless.

[F150]

Given your running per day is 50kms, a diesel automatic will make sense. You can't go wrong with either Creta or Seltos.

[GTO]

Meets all my criteria except all wheel disc brakes.

This one line says it all! Just go ahead with the Honda City. The 5th-gen petrol is a sorted, all-rounded sedan. You will enjoy the rev-happiness of the petrol and the butter-smooth CVT. I found absolutely no issues with the brakes & you won't either.

[fhdowntheline]

Your A-to-A comparison is between the Creta IVT SXO and City CVT ZX. Summing up what others have also mentioned:

1) The City has better boot space- Creta has more flexible (60/40) storage.

2) Power (120 vs 115) and Torque figures (144 vs 145) are more or less similar.
3) Creta has much better ground clearance than the City . If you have used the Zest, then you may find the City a bit inconvenient and may always be nervous on speed breakers/bad roads especially when loaded.
4) Creta has a better tyre profile for bad road conditions. In my opinion, City needs to have better than 185/55R16. Atleast 195 or 205mm.
4) As you pointed out, Creta has shorter length (albeit wider)-and parking may be easier.
5) I feel that the Creta has the better infotainment system than the City.
6) Ingress-egress is better in the Creta because of crossover design (I felt this more as the time went by driving the City-especially for elder passengers).
7) The ride quality is arguably better than the City at higher speeds (personal experience)
8) The body roll isnt so pronounced that would induce motion sickness like say in ladder/frame SUVs (again personal experience).

You won't go wrong with either car!

[Cessna182]

Have you considered a Harrier? You might get a top model within 20 lakhs if you bargain for a 2020 model considering it is December.

City is good but it has issues. Someone I know has his infotainment conked off in 3 years and Honda quotes a huge sum for replacement. Also it is not as spacious as an SUV. Another option could be a sparingly used german sedan that's still within extended warranty.

[sam264_2000]

Originally Posted by jothishX

Going by your requirements, I would suggest to go for the City ZX CVT....
...Ride quality is a problem in my Seltos. My parents feel nauseous in the rear seat due to the stiff suspension and constant body rolls..... Coming to the electronic gadgetry, the only stuff I find useful are the 360 cam, ICE and ventilated seats.

Thanks jothishX. Yes, heard about that ride quality of Seltos. But that 360 cam could really come handy while parking in my apartment.

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Will the Tata Harrier fit in your parking lot? With past Tata experience, upgrading within the family will be great for you and you will be familiar with all the SA's around.

If Harrier doesn't work out, then look for the 2020 Creta 1.5L SX IVT (Petrol) - ₹15,05,900 or 1.5L SX CRDi TC - ₹ 16,10,900.

Thanks a4anurag. Tata Harrier is too big a car for my parking and my requirements and my budget too Zest is the 5th Tata car in our family, followed by Nexon of my brother being the 6th The Creta variants you suggested are top minus 1 which do not meet my safety requirements. But I would be TDing Creta too. Let's see how things go.

Originally Posted by ashis89

....I would recommend the City. For the cost of a mid variant Seltos/Creta, you will get a fully loaded top variant City.

....Do take an extended test drive of all three cars before taking a call.

Thanks ashis89. Yes, Honda has priced the City really well this time around. I would be TDing all 3 cars; it just might take a bit longer to decide but I am okay with that.

Originally Posted by Candy$Cars

Go ahead with the City.....

The only reason I will recommend Creta/Seltos is if you want a panoramic sunroof or need the extra ground clearance.....

I would also like to recommend you the Harrier if you can stretch to the XZA. Couple it up with some year-end discounts, you will have the best upgrade to the Zest possible right now in the market....

Thanks Candy$Cars. Not a fan of panoramic sunroof but want to check out how big a difference ground clearance makes on my daily route.
Harrier XZA is a great suggestion. And I am going to rethink on it.

Originally Posted by petrolHead_1609

Voted for Honda City.

.....SUVs still do have their charm and I am looking for creta competitor from skoda/VW (vision IN) as they would give fun and reliability of TSi, hoping it to be safer but even they come with their drawback of hefty service bills and not so good ASS.

Thanks petrolHead_1609. Great analysis and aligns with what I have been thinking. I was hoping VW launches Taigun at the end of 2020 but looks like it might be here in Q2 2021. Skoda Vision is still in concept stage so no point considering.

Originally Posted by MUJ

I'd suggest you to look at the Nissan Kicks.

Thanks MUJ. That's one of my friend's suggestion too who drives a Duster.

Originally Posted by shancz

....I would say its the right time to go for an upgrade unless you want to use the Zest for its full service life(10-15 years).

If you want to wait for something better in sedans in that price range you should be prepared to wait for at least 2-3 years but also be prepared for a lower resale for the Zest.

Thanks shancz. Zest being a Tata petrol and out of production too is a depreciation disaster. Tata Diesels hold on to their value well (personal experience). 2-3 years wait is pretty long. At the max I could hold off is a year.

Originally Posted by F150

Given your running per day is 50kms, a diesel automatic will make sense. You can't go wrong with either Creta or Seltos.

Thanks F150. That's my father's suggestion too.

Originally Posted by GTO

... Just go ahead with the Honda City. The 5th-gen petrol is a sorted, all-rounded sedan. You will enjoy the rev-happiness of the petrol and the butter-smooth CVT. I found absolutely no issues with the brakes & you won't either.

Thank you GTO.

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Your A-to-A comparison is between the Creta IVT SXO and City CVT ZX....

You won't go wrong with either car!

Thank you fhdowntheline. All valid points. Looks like I would have more clarity after I TD the 3 cars and also check which one fits in my parking comfortably.

Originally Posted by Cessna182

Have you considered a Harrier? You might get a top model within 20 lakhs if you bargain for a 2020 model considering it is December.

Another option could be a sparingly used german sedan that's still within extended warranty.

Thanks Cessna182. Harrier top end is 24.25L on road for XZA+ variant. I doubt Tata would offer 4L discount. Even XZA is 23L.
I am not considering used German cars as I have less tolerance for failures and high maintenance costs.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by sam264_2000

At the max I could hold off is a year.

Makes sense, then I guess its time to double down and finalize your upgrade hopefully before the announced price hike in January.

And I would still recommend the City as the fuss-free FTD car with stress free long term ownership among all discussed. But only after you TD all that you've shortlisted.

Good Luck

[PrasannaDhana]

Honestly, the Korean twins are overrated and the new city is underrated. City is a much better car than them in all ways (except may be GC).

Go for the city, but also make sure your parking accomodates it, as it is a good 60cm longer than the zest