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View Poll Results: What should I buy based on my requirements?
Honda City 200 62.31%
Kia Seltos 34 10.59%
Hyundai Creta 23 7.17%
Something else 64 19.94%
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Old 24th December 2020, 12:20   #61
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Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

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Originally Posted by sam264_2000 View Post
Test drove the City ZX CVT yesterday. Here are my observations:
.
Good to read your observations. Looks like it fits most of your parameters. The manual version has tall gearing which means second gear can take yout past 100 (never tried that though). The autobox will make your driving that much more effortless. I like the clean dashboard layout of my 4th gen City but from what I hear and see, the new gen is really a very well laid out cabin. the lack of wheel cladding has been an old bugbear for Honda.

Do haggle for discounts, Honda is generally decent when it comes to giving a fair price. All the best!

Last edited by arindambasu13 : 24th December 2020 at 12:22.
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Old 25th December 2020, 08:33   #62
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Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

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Originally Posted by sam264_2000 View Post
4. Spacious than Zest (interior space + boot). We are a family of 3 but are heavy packers. Boot should accommodate a minimum of 3 to 4 medium sized bags + 1 small duffle bag. For reference, Zest boot size is 390 liters and it accommodates 2 adult cabin sized bags + 1 small kid size cabin bag + 2 sacks + 1 small duffle bag.
I think people have already covered on most aspects here already - so I will share the picture of my 4th Gen City's boot as it happened yesterday before another highway journey:

Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?-1608824492772.jpg
510 Liter Class Leading Boot space filled up

I am 100% sure the Creta/Seltos cannot come anywhere near this and do not go by the "fake" boot size of these cars as advertised, refer to this thread here: - (Measuring the actual boot capacity of your car). Real boot space of Seltos is approx: 320 Liters!

Last edited by vsrivatsa : 25th December 2020 at 08:34.
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Old 25th December 2020, 08:35   #63
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Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

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Originally Posted by vsrivatsa View Post
510 Liter Class Leading Boot space filled up

I am 100% sure the Creta/Seltos cannot come anywhere near this and do not go by the "fake" boot size of these cars as advertised, refer to this thread here: - (Measuring the actual boot capacity of your car)
Totally agree, I drive a car with the same boot size and I tell you, it can swallow quite a lot of luggage. I haven't been able to fill it up so far!

Sedans are sedans, period!
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Old 25th December 2020, 09:37   #64
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Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

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Originally Posted by vsrivatsa View Post

I am 100% sure the Creta/Seltos cannot come anywhere near this and do not go by the "fake" boot size of these cars as advertised. Real boot space of Seltos is approx: 320 Liters!
You are 100% correct about this point.

As a family of 4, we never had issues regarding boot space in our City's and Corolla's that we have been using since 2006. Even though we are heavy Packers, our 2nd Gen as well as 4th Gen City swallowed our luggage like champs. Ditto for our Altis.

But last weekend when we went for our first outstation trip with our 2 month old Seltos, Dad and I were shocked with how less we could fit in it. 2 bags in, the boot was practically filled and we still had 2-3 more. We would have taken our City instead if it wasn't at the Service Station.

Another advantage that I noticed with Sedans is that how much ever you fill the boot, you can't hear the luggage moving around even a bit but in the Seltos when we had loaded it to the brim, we could hear the luggage moving, the paper bags rubbing which got irritating after a point for the rear seat passengers. This was the same case with my uncles GLC last time we went out.

This trip also made us realise that these Crossover's Ground Clearance is overrated. We were practically off-roading at times and tackling extremely bad roads to get to the farmhouse which our friends F10 5 series and W205 C class handled with no problems at the same speed as us and did not even touch once. Modern Sedans have more than enough Ground Clearance.

The Seltos is an amazing car, but as a family, we have come to realise that we prefer Sedans much more than these Crossover's and even my grandfather who finds it easier to get in and out of the Seltos still prefers Sedans.

Last edited by Pratyush2407 : 25th December 2020 at 10:06.
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Old 25th December 2020, 10:08   #65
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Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

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Originally Posted by Pratyush2407 View Post
But last weekend when we went for our first outstation trip with our 2 month old Seltos, Dad and I were shocked with how less we could fit in it. 2 bags in, the boot was practically filled and we still had 2-3 more. We would have taken our City instead if it wasn't at the Service Station.

Another advantage that I noticed with Sedans is that how much ever you fill the boot, you can't hear the luggage moving around even a bit but in the Seltos when we had loaded it to the brim, we could hear the luggage moving, the paper bags rubbing which got irritating after a point for the rear seat passengers. This was the same case with my uncles GLC last time we went out.

This trip also made us realise that these Crossover's Ground Clearance is overrated. We were practically off-roading at times and tackling extremely bad roads to get to the farmhouse which our friends F10 5 series and W205 C class handled with no problems at the same speed as us and did not even touch once.

The Seltos is an amazing car, but as a family, we have come to realise that we prefer Sedans much more than these Crossover's and even my grandfather who finds it easier to get in and out of the Seltos still prefers Sedans.
Thank you for your unbiased opinion on the real world differences between sedans and crossovers!

I feel most crossover owners are still in their honeymoon period to come out and state the obvious reality. Crossovers are simply glorified large hatchbacks on stilts.

There's a reason why most C segment sedan owners keep their cars for a long time - the crossovers are a compromise to sedans while paying more. Unfortunately, the sedans are a dying breed thanks to our crossover obsessed society!

For the OP: You won't regret getting the City. It does all you need for all your demands with a nice premium feel attached to it.
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Old 25th December 2020, 10:22   #66
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Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

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Originally Posted by Turbohead View Post
I feel most crossover owners are still in their honeymoon period to come out and state the obvious reality. Crossovers are simply glorified large hatchbacks on stilts.

There's a reason why most C segment sedan owners keep their cars for a long time - the crossovers are a compromise to sedans while paying more.
Both the vehicle types have their own strong merit points. There's a reason as to why crossovers are gaining popularity all over the world and unfortunately, the sedans are a dying breed. It is upto individual preferences and requirements as to which car would suit us!

I own a Seltos, my BIL has a City VTEC. As a family, Seltos is our preferred choice for long drives unless we are very sure of the road conditions. And given the roads and areas we travel, the City has scrapped on almost all our trips even though we both are careful drivers. He is planning to upgrade his 5 year old City and get an SUV this time. We have few Bhpians on the forum who have upgraded from their sedans to crossovers and are happy with their decisions.

Even after all this, I have recommended the City to the OP as it will suit his requirements better.

PS: Regarding the boot space, again Seltos is our preferred car on our visits to the nursery. You see once we remove the parcel tray, we are able to carry tall plants in the boot, something which is not possible in the City.

On another trip, the food in boot of the City got spoilt as the boot was isolated and didn't get the air conditioning. No such problem in the Seltos where the food remains good for longer periods.

For all other purposes, City has a larger boot for sure!

Last edited by ashis89 : 25th December 2020 at 10:27.
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Old 28th December 2020, 06:05   #67
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Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

I remember some years ago, when my sister had visited us from Singapore. They had brought in a lot of luggage since my niece was small (pram etc). They had come from the airport in an Innova. While going back we had a bunch of family members to see them off, and although I had a Duster, we discovered that it was just as well that we had hired another taxi, because we couldnt fit all the stuff in the Duster, even with the parcel tray removed. Basically, if you want best of both worlds, you are looking at Innova or other RWD heavyweights. But then the question is how many km per year do you run around, lugging around 500 litres of baggage ?

Compact crossovers provide an acceptable balance of exterior dimensions, interior comfort, convenience of ingress-egress, bad-roadability and performance.

Last edited by fhdowntheline : 28th December 2020 at 06:08.
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Old 28th December 2020, 22:29   #68
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Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

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Originally Posted by DriveShrive View Post
4. Lastly, the point of safety. First, we don't know how Indian City will fare in GNCAP but I also factor kerb weight in an actual crash scenario where a heavier vehicle generally fares better than a lighter one (watch here- https://Youtu.be/ExQUGk12S8U), I guess Creta should be at least 100kgs heavier.
I'll start by saying this: I mean no offence to you, sir, or any creta owner. I'll link the IIHS study pertaining to the video you sent above (the link in description was dead, so I googled the new link with updated tests): https://www.iihs.org/topics/vehicle-size-and-weight
https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/iih...cles-for-teens
I'll quote some excerpts from the links above and the same can be duly cross checked from the given source.

Quote:
A bigger, heavier vehicle provides better crash protection than a smaller, lighter one, assuming no other differences.
This line was confusing at first, but it becomes clear in the light of the tests conducted (read below).

Quote:
IIHS demonstrated the role of size and weight in a series of crash tests in 2019, pairing a midsize SUV and small car made by Kia and a large car and minicar made by Toyota in collisions with each other. Both of the smaller vehicles, the 2018 Kia Forte and 2018 Toyota Yaris iA, had good ratings in the five IIHS tests relevant to driver protection, but they performed poorly in collisions with the larger vehicles.
It may be inferred that the relatively smaller/lighter cars had good crash test ratings vs unknown ratings of the cars being considered here. In fact, googling the crash test ratings of all the models mentioned in the tests, from the respective years, suggests that all the cars crash tested had good crash ratings (this might be what the above line 'assuming no other differences' alludes to).

Quote:
The structures of the Forte, which weighs 928 pounds less than the Sorento, and the Yaris iA, which weighs 1,033 pounds less than the Avalon, didn't hold up as well against the larger vehicles as in the car-to-barrier tests on which IIHS ratings are based.
Roughly translates to ~421 kg and ~469 Kg respectively. The point of contention here is, what type of weight is used in judging the crash worthiness? The kerb weight? The Gross weight? I decided to stick to kerb weight for the time being, please correct me if needed. Any help here would be appreciated. So I tried finding the kerb weight of Indian Creta, but it seems Hyundai has omitted this part from the Indian owner's manual, hence I used the weight of the African Creta, which may or may not be representative of the Indian Creta; I hope it serves the purpose of being informative, if not absolute. I will attach the images and mention the sources for the same below.
The kerb weights are as follows:

Petrol Creta:1165-1230 Kg
Petrol City: 1107-1153 Kg

Diesel Creta: 1270 Kg
Diesel City: 1191-1217 Kg

Sources: African Creta's Specifications from Hyundai Africa's website (thanks to TBHPian travelpanthi for providing the pdf), and Honda India's website.

Quote:
In larger-sized vehicles, the longer distance from the front of the vehicle to the occupant compartment provides more protection in frontal crashes, which account for more than half of passenger vehicle occupant deaths. The longer that distance, the more the frame of the vehicle can be crushed before it crushes the people inside.
I do not have the required data of the respective distances to compare. Maybe someone can come chime in

Quote:
Weight is important when two vehicles collide. The bigger vehicle will push the lighter one backward during the impact. That puts less force on the people inside the heavier vehicle and more on the people in the lighter vehicle.
The part that probably supports your assumption.

Quote:
Large vehicles aren't as big a threat to people in small vehicles as they used to be. A lighter vehicle will always be at a disadvantage in a collision with a heavier vehicle. But in recent years automakers have reduced the threat SUVs and pickups pose by more closely aligning their energy-absorbing structures with those of cars.
Now, the Creta is not an SUV in the traditional sense, which to be fair, the Sorento labelled as midsize SUV by IIHS in the test above isn't either, both being monocoque; the difference lies in Sorento having a good crash rating vs the unknown rating of the Indian Creta, in addition to being significantly heavier than the Kia Forte vs not as significant weight differences between the Indian City and the African Creta, especially if you compare equivalent variants of the two (i.e. petrol automatic Creta vs petrol Automatic City, and so on). What the above also points to, is, modern SUV's being less fatal to the passengers of the cars they collide with as compared to the old, traditional SUV's.

Considering my interpretation of the points above (please do correct me in case I wrongly interpreted the linked articles), I think it would be unfair to give Creta the weight advantage when speculating its crash worthiness against the City, especially since its Korean sister Seltos fared poorly in crash tests, which was supposedly built on the same platform (I might be inaccurate on this one, please correct me in such a case).

This leads me to a hypothetical question. In the hypothetical case of City being a 5 star car and Creta faring the same as Seltos, 3 star; would the kerb weight difference of 40-80 Kg between equivalent variants of the two, tip the crash worthiness in favour of Creta/Seltos?

Again, I'll repeat what I said at the start, this is not meant to offend any owners/ berate any product. Please view it as a mere opinion and/or a curious question.

Mods, please remove the post in case of it being inappropriate/off topic/detracting.
Attached Thumbnails
Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?-screenshot_2020122818475037701.jpg  

Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?-screenshot_2020122818131438701.jpg  


Last edited by Aditya : 29th December 2020 at 04:24. Reason: As requested
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Old 30th December 2020, 12:53   #69
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Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

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Originally Posted by shancz View Post
City seems likely then, even if all 3 fit…. Maruti needs to give a modern TC that car truly deserves.
Thanks shancz. S-Cross is an amazing VFM product from MSIL but for that 4 speed TC. Suits anyone who doesn’t want a sedan and also not willing to shell out 15L + on Creta/Seltos mid variants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amarprusty View Post
Personally I dont live SUV's due to very high body roll unless driving on bad roads,if driving on nice city roads then Sedan is the king, Toyota Yarris CVT is definitely worth considering as an alternative option to Honda City in the Sedan space- Toyota long term reliability found in old Qualis-Innova-Fortuner is better than Honda
Thanks amarprusty. I actually wanted to buy a Toyota car this time around. Had high expectations from Yaris since it’s launch but it’s a sales dud and has its own shortcomings compared to City which I can’t compromise on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arindambasu13 View Post
….I like the clean dashboard layout of my 4th gen City but from what I hear and see, the new gen is really a very well laid out cabin…
Thanks arindambasu13. The cabin really well laid out, hence the visibility is awesome. I will keep this thread posted on how things go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsrivatsa View Post
…. I am 100% sure the Creta/Seltos cannot come anywhere near this…Real boot space of Seltos is approx: 320 Liters!
Thanks vsrivatsa for the link. We really don’t know how Kia/Hyundai came up with 433 liters, do we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana View Post
….Sedans are sedans, period!
Agreed PrasannaDhana.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pratyush2407 View Post
….This trip also made us realise that these Crossover's Ground Clearance is overrated. Modern Sedans have more than enough Ground Clearance….
Yes, I think so too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbohead View Post
….Crossovers are simply glorified large hatchbacks on stilts…
That’s what one of my friend always says.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
Both the vehicle types have their own strong merit points. There's a reason as to why crossovers are gaining popularity all over the world and unfortunately, the sedans are a dying breed. It is upto individual preferences and requirements as to which car would suit us!
Even after all this, I have recommended the City to the OP as it will suit his requirements better.
Thanks ashis89.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
…But then the question is how many km per year do you run around, lugging around 500 litres of baggage?
Thanks fhdowntheline. That’s the question that my father has too for me.
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Old 30th December 2020, 13:09   #70
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Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

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Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
But then the question is how many km per year do you run around, lugging around 500 litres of baggage ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam264_2000 View Post
Thanks fhdowntheline. That’s the question that my father has too for me.
I would word the question differently - if you are a parent of a young child or planning to become a parent and plan to travel with a baby/toddler then boot space becomes extremely important. The Stroller itself consumes quite a bit of space. I am sure the luggage requirement will reduce as the kid grows up but for those initial years - its quite a necessity. Also, the rear seat space also becomes limited due to the Baby Seat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm View Post
In the hypothetical case of City being a 5 star car and Creta faring the same as Seltos, 3 star; would the kerb weight difference of 40-80 Kg between equivalent variants of the two, tip the crash worthiness in favour of Creta/Seltos?
Your questions are valid and OP's concern that 5th Gen City not being tested by GNCAP is also valid. Unfortunately we only have guesses to live with. Rest of the hypothetical claims in either way will not help determine the reality of which is a better car from a safety perspective.

Last edited by vsrivatsa : 30th December 2020 at 13:21.
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Old 30th December 2020, 13:42   #71
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Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm View Post
I'll start by saying this: I mean no offence to you, sir, or any creta owner.So I tried finding the kerb weight of Indian Creta, but it seems Hyundai has omitted this part from the Indian owner's manual, hence I used the weight of the African Creta, which may or may not be representative of the Indian Creta; I hope it serves the purpose of being informative, if not absolute. I will attach the images and mention the sources for the same below.
The kerb weights are as follows:

Petrol Creta:1165-1230 Kg
Petrol City: 1107-1153 Kg

Diesel Creta: 1270 Kg
Diesel City: 1191-1217 Kg

Sources: African Creta's Specifications from Hyundai Africa's website (thanks to TBHPian travelpanthi for providing the pdf), and Honda India's website.

Considering my interpretation of the points above (please do correct me in case I wrongly interpreted the linked articles), I think it would be unfair to give Creta the weight advantage when speculating its crash worthiness against the City, especially since its Korean sister Seltos fared poorly in crash tests, which was supposedly built on the same platform (I might be inaccurate on this one, please correct me in such a case).

This leads me to a hypothetical question. In the hypothetical case of City being a 5 star car and Creta faring the same as Seltos, 3 star; would the kerb weight difference of 40-80 Kg between equivalent variants of the two, tip the crash worthiness in favour of Creta/Seltos?
Ok- so just to update, I checked my vehicle RC on this. The SXO Diesel AT Creta weighs in at 1362 kgs unladen and 1775kg GVW. So it is a good deal heavier than the African Creta.

This was also covered in the official TBHP review, where the weight was quoted at 1344 kg and around 1282 kg for the petrol version.
Having owned the City earlier, I can definitely vouch for the fact that the Creta feels more solid (in the general sense of exterior feel) than the City. As to how the chassis/ structure fares in terms of solidity, its not something that anyone would fancy trying out at all!

Last edited by fhdowntheline : 30th December 2020 at 13:48.
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Old 30th December 2020, 13:51   #72
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Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsrivatsa View Post
I would word the question differently - if you are a parent of a young child or planning to become a parent and plan to travel with a baby/toddler then boot space becomes extremely important. The Stroller itself consumes quite a bit of space. I am sure the luggage requirement will reduce as the kid grows up but for those initial years - its quite a necessity. Also, the rear seat space also becomes limited due to the Baby Seat.
Agreed. Well, my father's question is - how many times in a year do you need 500liters of boot space? I don't have specific answer to this but I need it when I need it, though I have a young kid who no longer needs a stroller or a booster seat.
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Old 30th December 2020, 15:32   #73
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Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

You could also take a look at the Duster CVT which has a slightly squarish boot space (475 litres) , is equal or better than its competitors in terms of outright performance but a bit behind on interior pizzazz and a few airbags.
But it is a robust ,go-almost-anywhere kind of a car which will also delight you in terms of ride and handling. And it is a bit cheaper than the Koreans.
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Old 30th December 2020, 15:46   #74
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Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsrivatsa View Post
Your questions are valid and OP's concern that 5th Gen City not being tested by GNCAP is also valid. Unfortunately we only have guesses to live with. Rest of the hypothetical claims in either way will not help determine the reality of which is a better car from a safety perspective.
I concur. It's purely speculative on my part and the hypothetical question was aimed at considering the possibility of such a scenario; it does not, in any way, suggest or imply that the same would be the case with the untested cars. As it stands, I am of the opinion that the weight advantage of Creta may not be a reliable enough measure to consider it over the City as far as crash worthiness is concerned, unless both are tested by GNCAP and achieve similar ratings, which may then tip the crash worthiness in favour of the Creta due to its weight advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
Ok- so just to update, I checked my vehicle RC on this. The SXO Diesel AT Creta weighs in at 1362 kgs unladen and 1775kg GVW. So it is a good deal heavier than the African Creta.

This was also covered in the official TBHP review, where the weight was quoted at 1344 kg and around 1282 kg for the petrol version.
Having owned the City earlier, I can definitely vouch for the fact that the Creta feels more solid (in the general sense of exterior feel) than the City. As to how the chassis/ structure fares in terms of solidity, its not something that anyone would fancy trying out at all!
Thanks for the update, sir. Much appreciated! I did look at the offical review numbers but wasn't sure of the source, hence I decided to look at the African Creta because both of them are christened 'SU2i'.
Now that you have clarified the weight of the Indian Creta, it does bring more clarity to the equation, but it also leads me to another confusion/question: the Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) of 1.5 D Executive AT African Creta is a whopping 1795 Kg (can be cross checked from the African Creta's Specifications I posted above, available on Hyundai Africa's website), 20 Kg more than the Indian Creta D SX(O) AT's Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) of 1775 Kg despite having a curb/tare weight of a mere 1270 Kg, a 92 Kg reduction over the Indian Creta's unladen 1362 Kg (as per your RC)! If I assume GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) and GVM (Gross Vehicle Mass) mean one and the same, could it mean that the weighing procedure varies across countries? Or perhaps, the Indian and African Creta are different altogether, as the weights suggest, if the same engine+gerabox combo and safety equipment are present on both.
Very fascinating! I hope fellow TBHPians give their valuable inputs on this.

I checked the Indian Seltos' Owner's Manual in the meantime, which surprisingly lists the Gross Vehicle Weight (but skips the Kerb Weight altogether) of 1745 Kg for 1.5 U2 TCI AT, which is pretty close to 1775 Kg of the Creta D AT. Just to be sure, can any 5th Gen City, Kia Seltos owners post the weights on their RC, because we have the data for these vehicles from official sources, so it'll be easy to cross check if there are any deviations.

Last edited by rpm : 30th December 2020 at 15:52.
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Old 30th December 2020, 16:06   #75
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Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm View Post
Thanks for the update, sir. Much appreciated! I did look at the offical review numbers but wasn't sure of the source, hence I decided to look at the African Creta because both of them are christened 'SU2i'.
Now that you have clarified the weight of the Indian Creta, it does bring more clarity to the equation, but it also leads me to another confusion/question: the Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) of 1.5 D Executive AT African Creta is a whopping 1795 Kg (can be cross checked from the African Creta's Specifications I posted above, available on Hyundai Africa's website), 20 Kg more than the Indian Creta D SX(O) AT's Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) of 1775 Kg despite having a curb/tare weight of a mere 1270 Kg, a 92 Kg reduction over the Indian Creta's unladen 1362 Kg (as per your RC)! If I assume GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) and GVM (Gross Vehicle Mass) mean one and the same, could it mean that the weighing procedure varies across countries?
I think some of these 10-20 kg differences may be attributed to what production spec car is actually used for government records, although the difference in GVW is interesting.Maybe they are allowed to haul more weight for any specific kind of luggage/cargo that is unique to the region-just a wild guess.

Also, going thru the SA-Hyundai website, I observed that all trims of the Creta have manual aircon, no premium 10.25in ICE/Bose speakers. Thats interesting.

Last edited by fhdowntheline : 30th December 2020 at 16:20.
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