[Puneet0051]

Since this thread is much useful, wanted to check with fellow bhpians if in recent past anyone has been to
Option 1) Delhi - Sangla valley- Kaza
Option 2) Delhi - Manali- Chandrataal, Rohtang, balalacha ( Not in this order necessarily)

Are any of these options possible in a 3 series and c class in June? Is it worth the drive taking low slung sedan, i can see from forum that small hatchback its very much doable

Any latest info. Would be really helpful. Thanks

[Rangy62]

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

Ah, my favourite topic i.e travelling in the Himalayas! But there cannot be a single car that can be regarded as the best. For me the best car is my Bolero 4x4. The Thar is a close second or almost at par. But these cars might not suit you. In fact most of the people I know hate the Bolero. But I like it because it is cheap, reliable, extremely rugged, can be repaired anywhere if needed, Mahindra service centres in many places, can handle bad fuel with elan and the wheels do not need frequent alignment like the IFS cars when driven over bad roads day in and day out. So you will get a lot of options from a lot of people, but the decision has to be yours. I think SS-Traveller Da has summed up pretty well here and would recommend to get something based on this -

Bolero is very good vehicle, have driven it a lot in the jungles of South India and have had no issues with it. Have travelled to Chopta, Eaglenest, Gurudongmar lake and a few more places for birding in the Bolero. My travels have been mostly late November and due to snow fall we could not get to a few places in a Bolero and this where a 4x4 was sorely missed.

[BlackPearl]

Originally Posted by Rangy62

Bolero is very good vehicle, have driven it a lot in the jungles of South India and have had no issues with it. Have travelled to Chopta, Eaglenest, Gurudongmar lake and a few more places for birding in the Bolero.

There is a big difference between 2WD and 4WD Boleros. The 2WD Boleros usually have IFS setup whereas the 4WD Boleros have live axle with leaf springs and make them a lot more uncomfortable and bumpy unless loaded to the brim.

[VKumar]

Originally Posted by wanderernomad

Maruti Alto 800

If Alto 800 had enough of the space, it's the queen of Himalayas. The cabbies of Himanchal simply love it, and the speeds they carry in these mini Marutis is worth a mention in adventure books. Recently on a snow drive to Mussoorie and ahead, I saw the guys having fun with Alto. Got stuck on ice? No problem, come out, push and place it in whichever place you want, even 2 guys can to that with an Alto. All a stuck Alto needs is maximum two people to push it out of the situation. Narrow roads, not an issue, all you need is slight space anywhere in your sight, and the Alto fits there - it's a very practical car for the narrow hilly roads.

Originally Posted by GTO

4x4 can at times bring FOUR times the fun

4x4 is indeed very useful, and actually comes into a lot of use while one gets stuck in the bigger water crossings etc. There is a reason I particularly wrote 'September-October', that's the time when most of the crossings are dried out and the terrain becomes easier to cover. If one is planning to do the same in June-July, the 4x4 can help derive a lot more fun, another possible option option I have mentioned later in this post.

But one more point, higher Himalayas are quite unforgiving if one tries to get too playful (Which novice 4x4 owners frequently do). People like you, Sumitro, Anshuman, etc are seasoned off-roaders, you people know how far to go in a 4x4 and how to go there; and even more importantly - where to stop! That's a skill which majority of the novice 4x4 owners miss, they simply follow the rule of 'engage and put the right foot down', which works with the premium 4x4s', but not with the sub Endy ones at least.

Originally Posted by Fusion2006

I've done a trip to Chandratal Lake in Spiti in my 4x2 Jeep Compass Petrol AT through slush, mud and dirt roads, and never found ground clearance to be a problem.

Reaching Chandratal is not an easy task, the width of the track is an issue actully, not the surface in itself; until its covered with snow. A 4x2 with a patient driver can do that, having an aggressive TCS further helps.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

- Toyota Innova

Particularly this one sir. If there is less load on the rear wheels, then this is among the worst vehicles to take to the higher Himalayas. It works only where there are at least 5-6 passengers, else the puny wheels it comes with, they keep on slipping time and again. I have enough experience with Innova that for the recent snow drive I undertook (I knew the night has passed and there is ice on the surface), the first decision I made was that it needs not be an Innova. This van starts spinning it wheels anywhere if the load on the rear isn't enough.

Don't trust me? Even Youtube is also a testimony to the same, you can find hundreds of videos where the Innova got stuck (And you will find it silly too, to get stuck where they do), now either it kept spinning the rear tyre, or came out with proper nagin dance. The puny tyres get overwhelmed by the super large vehicle they have to push when the going gets tough. Innova is an awesome vehicle for metaled roads, but for the tougher terrain, it needs a driver with steel heart.

The pic below, I drove a Polo TDi with 195 section tyres, 25 psi air and 4 passengers on this icy road, and went very close near to Dhanaulti, wherever I got stuck, slight push with the floor mats under the wheels helped me move ahead. Overall, if the passenger load is less, a nose heavy FWD with wide tyres does a better job than an a less loaded RWD with puny tyres IMO. In fact, I have driven the low slung cars like Polo, Corolla, and Laura, to many such places where people used to say "it won't reach".

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Check out this gentleman's profile and his travelogues.

I checked, and found this:

Originally Posted by debuda

Yeti developed a serious problem in the clutch which started slipping and we could get a burning smell. This problem was compounded by another problem of the engine stalling and shutting off unpredictably
Abhijit's 10 year old Yeti, with 80,000+ KM on the odo, made it successfully despite the serious mechanical issues and a worn set of highway tires. YETI WAS SIGHTED AT SANDAKPHU, probably for the first time.

Debuda is a clear testimony of the statement "it's the driver who reaches the destination"

This is further accentuated by the fact that recently another BHPian tried Sandakphu in his Jeep Compass 4x4, and following are the words I have picked directly from his travelogue thread:

The real fun would start from here, post Gairibas there is absolutely no roads at all. Its full of boulders, sand, mud, slush, everything that posts a challenge for a soft offroader. Just about a km away from Gairibas, I started getting stuck. The road was full of boulders and my car was getting stuck. Frankly spoken, I am an amateur at off-roading, have done couple of trails with BJC (Bangalore JEEP Club) but nothing that can challenge me and the machine. Just when I was stuck, 3-4 Land Rovers gathered and started shouting at me, lost all my confidence here. Started burning clutch, this is when a Co-JEEPer Prasad came to my rescue. He took the driver seat and everything started moving again! After lot of pushing, navigating around boulders and huge rocks, we reached Kalipokhari.

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Landcruiser V8

Paisa?

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

can handle bad fuel with elan

Not any more since the 1.5 came in, the 2.5 as a tractor and pick up engine, which was used to make a car!

Any way, I have a TUV equipped with an MLD in my circle, and I find it a very useful addition for explorers. While the TUV offers more comfort and better NVH than the Bolero; the MLD makes it capable enough not to get stuck in water crossings etc. I have done Nelong valley with that car and passed a few points which the 4x2 wouldn't have crossed at any cost without either carrying insane momentum or push support. With MLD, first gear, 10 kph, you hear slight 'krrrr' and the vehicle starts moving ahead as soon as the diff gets locked. I guess Mahindra still provides it but as a paid option for customers who want to switch (Ours was given for free on the complaint of the famous TUV wheelspin).

So, if the OP wants a low cost explorer then buying a TUV (Bolero Neo) and getting an MLD added to it can make for a nice compact explorer, which can be used as a daily driver as well as an explorer - it gives all the advantages a Bolero gives of Mahindra service support, with added comfort and performance. Here is the TUV that I am talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-nZn0GfNhw

Originally Posted by Puneet0051

Since this thread is much useful, wanted to check with fellow bhpians if in recent past anyone has been to
Option 1) Delhi - Sangla valley- Kaza
Option 2) Delhi - Manali- Chandrataal, Rohtang, balalacha ( Not in this order necessarily)

Are any of these options possible in a 3 series and c class in June? Is it worth the drive taking low slung sedan, i can see from forum that small hatchback its very much doable

I celebrated the Christmas in Kalpa and Chitkul, route wasn't open to Kaza that time due to the heavy snowfall that happened around 20th.

A 3 series or C class can reach Kaza, but I would not suggest you take them. The road to Kaza is good, there are a few bad patches where a few belly scrape may happen, and with these cars, you never know what causes the devastation. You can plan for Kalpa, Sang La and Chitkul, that's a safer option.

Option 2 may be viable once the road opens, it's no more the old road.

June, July, August has the issue of water crossings. If you plan the same trip in September end or October, I guess the C will do it easily then, as the roads are completely repaired by then even for post monsoon damages, and water crossings become non existent.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by VKumar

The pic below, I drove a Polo TDi with 195 section tyres, 25 psi air and 4 passengers on this icy road, and went very close near to Dhanaulti, wherever I got stuck, slight push with the floor mats under the wheels helped me move ahead.

A 58-year-old gentleman and his wife are no match for 4 young tough-as-nails men like you, who'd happily jump out of a car to push and insert floor mats under the wheels. I'm not 58 yet, but when I have my wife and daughter travelling with me, I'll make sure that whatever terrain we travel through, we are reasonably equipped (both a capable car and recovery equipment) to enable us to pass through without frequent halts or using physical strength.

Debuda is a clear testimony of the statement "it's the driver who reaches the destination"

Mind you, debuda didn't have his wife with him on this trip, and he had 2 other able-bodied friends.

This is further accentuated by the fact that recently another BHPian tried Sandakphu in his Jeep Compass 4x4

I don't think the OP is considering a challenge to reach difficult terrain. People have tried reaching Sandakphu on motorcycles, hatchbacks and crossovers without 4wd (and often, without 4L) - all of which have suffered heavy clutch damage that they would not discuss in open forums. I would hate to halt my travels due to a burnt clutch! So also the OP, from what I can gather.

[akshay4587]

Originally Posted by Puneet0051

Since this thread is much useful, wanted to check with fellow bhpians if in recent past anyone has been to
Option 1) Delhi - Sangla valley- Kaza
Option 2) Delhi - Manali- Chandrataal, Rohtang, balalacha ( Not in this order necessarily)

Are any of these options possible in a 3 series and c class in June? Is it worth the drive taking low slung sedan, i can see from forum that small hatchback its very much doable

Any latest info. Would be really helpful. Thanks

Option 1
Definitely possible, if you are careful enough.
Feb 2018, we came across a 520D in Kaza (Minimal snow fall in 2018 ensured no snow/ice on roads, which made it possible for it to reach Kaza in Winters, do not otherwise try Winter Spiti in a 2WD).

Possible yes, but be prepared for under body hits, roads have vastly improved in the past few years, however they still aren't sedan friendly until Kaza.

Option 2
If you omit chandertaal, from your list, you might as well take your 3 series to Leh, but again, get a good sump guard, and prepare your mind and the car for some abuse.

[IP_Man]

I have self driven car on the following route.

1. Kashmir - Leh - Manali
2. Pangong Lake
3. Nubra Valley
4. Guru Dongmar Lake (North Sikkim)
5. Zero Point (North Sikkim)
6. Baba Mandir, Thangu Lake (East Sikkim)

Having this experience, I strongly advocate a car with following must have requisites.

1. Body on frame.
2. Rear wheel Drive
3. Strong metal engine protection skid plate
4. High ground clearance car that won't sag on load
5. Big tyres
6. Preferably Diesel
7. Engine power(because at high altitude engine power becomes half)

You can do Himalaya in a small car but if there is landslide, it will be very difficult to clear that. I faced two major landslide on the way to Guru Dongmar lake and zero point. There was long queue of car waiting for BRO to clear landslide but our car cleared that because of above mentioned attributes.

If you are going there in small hatch or pseudo SUV, I advice, park your car and take local transport for site seeing. Those gruesome route can take toll of your car esp. oil sump of M800 which has no protection at all.

Pl. read travelog, what happened to capable SUV duster on the way to East Sikkim.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/trave...-15748-ft.html (Dusted: Zero Point, North Sikkim, 15748 FT)

After we left from Thangu, within few kilometers we had to stop, we had only drove for 30 min but had to stop because of this:
Dusted: Zero Point, North Sikkim, 15748 FT-iceditchatthangu.jpg

While the duster was thinking whether she can cross or not, Sajjan thought of checking how deep can it be and went a little too close to the ditch and the ice broke from the side and his right foot got into the ice. We quickly took him out and removed his shoes and put few mufflers around his leg to give him warm and put a polybag around his feet so that his right feet doesn't get frozen.

Now, before we all started from Gangtok we all had decided that if we get stuck in such situation where we can get stuck and something bad can happen, we will decide together as what to do. Wangdi told us that we will not cross that ditch which was easily 10 inches deeper probably more at some point. So, we all decided not to cross it and go back to Lachen. The driver of the other car also decided to not cross it and go back.

But then came the Army truck which easily crossed that ditch which gave us some confidence, and then there were lot of army people around, we asked them whether we can get some help in case we get stuck there, they said don't worry, if you are stuck we will help you get out of the ditch. Now we all decided to get through that and I took the keys from Wangdi and started the car. As we had expected the car got stuck while getting out and there were lot of army people who pushed the car and the car came out. I stopped after taking the turn slightly uphill and stopped there.

Now it was the turn of the other driver to cross and it was a Sumo Victa which very easily crossed that ditch because of RWD, and I was cursing why is Duster FWD. By the way, when I took the car into the ditch, while coming out front bull guard got damaged and front number plate also broke and fell into the ditch, now no one had dare to find and take that out, so we left it there as a souvenir. When he(the other car) came, we decided to go further up and we saw that the entire road is full of ice and its impossible for us to go ahead, we all decided to go back and Wangdi told us he will drive. We gave him the key and when he started to reverse we had our first scare of death as the car skidded for sometime but he was able to handle it very easily. We all thanked God and left from there, this time to get out of the ditch all were sitting in the car and Wangdi took us out easily from there.

[Kosfactor]

Since the OP is going to start in BLR and then work his way up. I have some suggestions.

Long distance driving abroad & India are very different, you are going to encounter fatigue far quicker than you think.

Start with trips down south if you are based in BLR, start with 200-300Kms one way and work your way up before you embark on covering 800-1000 Kms a day.

You have to be able to maintain 100% alertness while you are at the wheel throughout the journey, you've got to last the day and then be back for the next day's long haul.

If you think the terrain is bad and can potentially damage the vehicle, park the vehicle in the hotel and take a local vehicle for hire. You do have to bring whatever vehicle it is back to BLR in one piece.

[ruzbehxyz]

Originally Posted by Puneet0051

Since this thread is much useful, wanted to check with fellow bhpians if in recent past anyone has been to
Option 1) Delhi - Sangla valley- Kaza
Option 2) Delhi - Manali- Chandrataal, Rohtang, balalacha ( Not in this order necessarily)

Are any of these options possible in a 3 series and c class in June? Is it worth the drive taking low slung sedan, i can see from forum that small hatchback its very much doable

Any latest info. Would be really helpful. Thanks

3 series and C class can make it, except Chandrataal. However be prepared for some under belly hits. In fact currently even the Bilaspur Manali road is in very bad shape with lot of construction work and slush.
The idea of traveling on such roads is to enjoy the drive and enjoy the seanery. There is no point in just stressing the car.

[Rangy62]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Since the OP is going to start in BLR and then work his way up. I have some suggestions.

Long distance driving abroad & India are very different, you are going to encounter fatigue far quicker than you think.

Start with trips down south if you are based in BLR, start with 200-300Kms one way and work your way up before you embark on covering 800-1000 Kms a day.

You have to be able to maintain 100% alertness while you are at the wheel throughout the journey, you`ve got to last the day and then be back for the next day`s long haul.

If you think the terrain is bad and can potentially damage the vehicle, park the vehicle in the hotel and take a local vehicle for hire. You do have to bring whatever vehicle it is back to BLR in one piece.

Thank you, sensible thinking. Have no issues driving in India or any where. I can easily adapt from a left hand drive to right hand so that’s not an issue. As far as fatigue is concerned city driving is worse than highways. I have driven stretches of up to 700 Kms a day so not worried too much about it. Also it’s not going to be a drive with a fixed goal for the day. With so much of improvements places to stop and rest are plenty I think we should be ok.

[Apex1815]

I am from Himachal Pradesh and have covered various terrains of Himachal on Bikes, M800 & Swift.
Maruti 800 and Altos are able to conquer almost every terrain in himachal. They are used as Taxis and take the passengers across any kind of terrain.

In Himalayan terrain driving skill is more important rather than just a capable SUV. (Remember the majority of Himachalis who daily drive on these roads donot have the SUVs and drive the Hatchbacks mostly).

I have often witnessed SUVs coming from Delhi & Punjab getting stuck herel:

[IP_Man]

Originally Posted by wanderernomad

Maruti Alto 800 remains the most popular choice among entire Himalayas.

On the way to Gurudongmar lake, what I found was all BOF big cars. Only exception was one Honda WRV that tried to clear landslide but couldn't do it and had to return back.

[BlackPearl]

Originally Posted by VKumar

Not any more since the 1.5 came in, the 2.5 as a tractor and pick up engine, which was used to make a car!

I was talking about the 2.5 engine. I don't think Mahindra gives 4WD option anymore for Bolero with the 1.5 Litre BS6 engine.

[Yaatendra]

Well rightly said. I have had the privilege to be driving in Spiti and Ladakh from 1996 till date. The roads back then were close to Indiana Jones like an adventure. The Moraie Plains were where vehicles use to get stuck in sand and even get lost - due to many tracks made by different drivers.

Now the entire routes are with great roads with very few patches of non metalled roads. Now the challenge that new offroad enthusiasts endure is just the high altitude. Over 25 years of exploring these landscapes and roads - there has been a very unique motivator - something that we saw even in those days and even now - Its the confidence and valor that local people display when they traverse these challenging roads inn their Maruti Vans, Maruti Cars, Hyundai Santros etc.

My verdict is that the true SUV - with respect to the vehicle that ferries masses across these tough terrains is ALTO. No matter where we go these days - no matter how challenging the terrain and roads - We have always seen a successful batch of ALTO drivers driving away to their destinations without fear, without hesitation. Salute to them and they put all of us with top 4X4 SUV clubs at second place. The well-articulated and planned off-road adventure holiday for us is FOR THEM JUST ANOTHER regular drive. I have always been inspired by these small vehicles and have gratitude to the companies to make them so reliable - that the masses can move in them with confidence and go around their daily lives in these tough Himalayan terrains. Happy Off-roading to all.

[vtecblast]

I know enough has been said already but, I thought being a person who has lived in hills since birth would help. We have mostly driven 4*4s only at the initial stage of hill roads' development (1990's stuff) but we have come a long way since then. We in Uttarakhand mostly have roads which don't care about 4*4s but more on how far you're willing to take your vehicle. I'm not saying that 4*4 doesn't ease the things out, but I have often witnessed even Gypsies and D-max getting stuck. If your wanderlust makes you do it you'll be able to manage many of the hilly drives just fine.
Here are my vehicles whose condition might tell you how much of hilly road strain they have survived. Scorpio is 4*2. Brio is certainly not advisable though.




Here's a suggestion from a Compass owner (that too is 4*2)
Your way of going towards Trailhawk is good and it manages its way perfectly. My friend has it and we have taken it to pure limits it has never caused us any issues. Atleast we were very conscious that we dont cause any irrevocable damage to the car because the spares are too expensive (atleast for us)
If in case you have to look out for any other vehicle here are some vehicles which have proven their worth in no-road situations too:-
1. Toyota Fortuner 4wd
2. Isuzu D-Max V-cross
Wishing you alot of happy miles and hope to read your travelogues soon.