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Old 27th July 2021, 13:52   #16
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Default Re: New or used car for 25 lakhs | Which one should I buy?

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
I got it just earlier this month, 2018 model.

If you live in Chennai you can get ex Ford corporate lease vehicles that come on the used car market at the end of three years.

I got just that sort of vehicle ++ had to change tyres because the dealer replaced the existing tyres with junk ones, and had to get insurance because Ford owns their dealerships / gets service and repair for free, so that their cars all have only third party insurance.

Checked service history + had it inspected on a ramp at a Ford dealer before buying it.
This is exactly the information I'm looking for. Is it possible to PM me with some specifics? I think my account doesn't have the capability to PM people just yet. Thanks!
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Old 27th July 2021, 14:27   #17
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Default Re: New or used car for 25 lakhs | Which one should I buy?

My vote is for a vw tiguan. You'll sure feel the difference in ride quality and handling and I think you'll like it. Keeping in mind the vw ASS arent the most popular ASS's but the feel you'll get while driving that car will be worth it. Plenty options in the pre worshipped marketplace. I am sure you'll find a good enough deal. Good luck. 👍
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Old 27th July 2021, 17:10   #18
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Default Re: New or used car for 25 lakhs | Which one should I buy?

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Originally Posted by Goldikam View Post
Does this 1.5 covers only the maintenance or you factored in insurance cost too?

How would a car like that depreciate further, given itís a petrol motor?

Is the mileage really low on that car. I have been told it gives around 12kmpl in city, which seems unbelievable to me.
Insurance is separate and will set you back another several tens of thousands depending on the car age and IDV.

Service - 25k per service or so, and then all the cosmetic or other fixes you might need (tyres, brake pads, ATF fluid, coolant etc change, timing belt or chain Ö). Itís worth paying the 8-10k an authorised dealership will charge you to appraise the car and check itís service history.

If you buy this keep it till FC, you wonít like what you get as resale value for a second owner German

You donít buy such cars for mileage. 12 kmpl is optimistic. If you want fuel efficient please buy a Maruti hatchback.
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Old 27th July 2021, 17:26   #19
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Default Re: New or used car for 25 lakhs | Which one should I buy?

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Insurance is separate and will set you back another several tens of thousands depending on the car age and IDV.

Service - 25k per service or so, and then all the cosmetic or other fixes you might need (tyres, brake pads, ATF fluid, coolant etc change, timing belt or chain Ö). Itís worth paying the 8-10k an authorised dealership will charge you to appraise the car and check itís service history.

If you buy this keep it till FC, you wonít like what you get as resale value for a second owner German

You donít buy such cars for mileage. 12 kmpl is optimistic. If you want fuel efficient please buy a Maruti hatchback.
Thank you for the clarification.
I just wanted to know what could be the mileage. I obviously know one won't just consider mileage when buying a merc and marutis give better mileage.

Thank you for your reply.
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Old 27th July 2021, 20:00   #20
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Default Re: New or used car for 25 lakhs | Which one should I buy?

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Thank you and congratulations on the purchase. If you'd like to, please share a bit more about this engine and the car's characteristics.
2.2L Diesel - 4 matic (four wheel drive). Mated to a 9 speed gearbox. You have 4 driving modes - Eco, Comfort, Sports and Sports +.

Eco is a bit sluggish so i use comfort, which is more than enough for easy city and highway driving. If you want to have some fun, move her into Sports mode and she becomes an animal. Used it recently while going up the ghats to Lonavla and the car was absolutely unbelievable - pulls a lot more in each gear. Sports + mode - havent used it yet. Essentially, you can drive the car the way you want to on a particular day. And the fuel efficiency is amazing - getting 20kmpl on diesel on long drives is quite normal.

Ride may be a bit jarring for this price point but i'm happy overall. Its got a little bit of roll but its a good city car and then makes up for the weekend drive with its SUV stance.

Hope this helps
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Old 27th July 2021, 23:44   #21
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Default Re: New or used car for 25 lakhs | Which one should I buy?

Why donít you check out the MG Hector ? Weíve had one since last November and I think that itís the best car (sedans aside) that you can currently buy in the sub 21 lakh range.
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Old 28th July 2021, 12:43   #22
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Default Re: New or used car for 25 lakhs | Which one should I buy?

Based on t2k4's requirements and given that his honda city will only be up for registration after couple of years, I'd suggest holding off on a purchase for now and evaluating the new XUV700 sometime in 2023 end (after the first few batches are out).

Was helping a friend pick a 7 seater to replace his 10 yr old fortuner and he is closing in on an endeavor despite the rumors around ford's commitment to India. He mentioned that the new fortuner did not feel like an upgrade and the backseat comfort was actually a downer.
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Old 30th July 2021, 02:00   #23
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Default Re: New or used car for 25 lakhs | Which one should I buy?

Bro,

I am exactly in the same boat as you with exactly same thoughts as you.

I have always wanted a Fortuner and when the 2nd gen hit the showrooms my desire grew even greater to own one. The no compromise on the imposing stance, the sheer size, the safety and reliability negated some of the absence of gadgets and gizmos.

Waiting for a right time and reach the affordability had its own domino effect. Every passing year the price increases made my wait even longer.

Ok. Now I waited long enough there are 5 model years of used Fortuners I can choose from :-)

Made a compromise to go for a used 2nd Fortuner and currently looking out for one.

Keep us posted on how your pursuit is going and I will do the same.
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Old 31st July 2021, 14:05   #24
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Default Re: New or used car for 25 lakhs | Which one should I buy?

Quick update on the research:

Can't find any Kodiaq or a non-abused 3.2-spec Endeavour in this part of the world.

Test drove the new Endeavour 2.0 (for reference check with the 3.2) and the cabin felt very pedestrian. The engine wasn't responsive and the brakes were the spongiest I've ever seen on a car.

The situation took another turn on the way back from the Ford showroom when wifey dragged me to test drive Kia Carnival.

The mindset I went with:
- I have to sit through this test drive for her
- it's a quick punishment and we'll be done with this soon enough
- Kia + Van = it couldn't end soon enough

What I felt during/after the test drive:
- pleasant, positive, experience
- the MPV is huge and you love it for that
- you hush out the outside world
- the ride's plush
- low-speed steering is heavy, once you go past 30-40 kmph, it's light and nice
- couldn't find a missing feature on the Limo trim except maybe the need of a larger touch console; it's loaded to the core

Wife's sold on Carnival and wanted me to book it on the spot. As far as she's concerned, the search is over. Carefully orchestrated the exit from the showroom by presenting the need to talk to the CA & crunch some numbers without saying that I am not sure about an MPV and this long of an MPV at that!

Never in my life have I imagined driving an MPV around town with or without the Yankee cap & the Ray Bans.

She's given me the heads-up to work out the budget and end my search.

All of a sudden, the car search went from testing water wading capabilities to 'the Limo trim has 10-inch screens for the kids'.

Will post updates as the story unfolds.
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Old 31st July 2021, 23:16   #25
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Default Re: New or used car for 25 lakhs | Which one should I buy?

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Originally Posted by t2k4 View Post
Quick update on the research:

Can't find any Kodiaq or a non-abused 3.2-spec Endeavour in this part of the world.

Test drove the new Endeavour 2.0 (for reference check with the 3.2) and the cabin felt very pedestrian. The engine wasn't responsive and the brakes were the spongiest I've ever seen on a car.

The situation took another turn on the way back from the Ford showroom when wifey dragged me to test drive Kia Carnival.

The mindset I went with:
- I have to sit through this test drive for her
- it's a quick punishment and we'll be done with this soon enough
- Kia + Van = it couldn't end soon enough

What I felt during/after the test drive:
- pleasant, positive, experience
- the MPV is huge and you love it for that
- you hush out the outside world
- the ride's plush
- low-speed steering is heavy, once you go past 30-40 kmph, it's light and nice
- couldn't find a missing feature on the Limo trim except maybe the need of a larger touch console; it's loaded to the core

Wife's sold on Carnival and wanted me to book it on the spot. As far as she's concerned, the search is over. Carefully orchestrated the exit from the showroom by presenting the need to talk to the CA & crunch some numbers without saying that I am not sure about an MPV and this long of an MPV at that!

Never in my life have I imagined driving an MPV around town with or without the Yankee cap & the Ray Bans.

She's given me the heads-up to work out the budget and end my search.

All of a sudden, the car search went from testing water wading capabilities to 'the Limo trim has 10-inch screens for the kids'.

Will post updates as the story unfolds.
Bro,

Besides being a motorhead, you really got some witty articulation skills. If your career is not stand-up comedy, you should explore that seriously

My side of the story is different:

I show high dictator traits especially when it comes to making decisions on automobiles. In the past, I stood my ground even when such decisions were not so great :-)

I am currently looking at a 2017 Fortuner 2WD Automatic. It has meticulous service records and just 20K gentle kilometers. Driven only by the owner and has another year of extended warranty.

The owner is commanding 30L for this. Quote for brand new 2021 2WD Automatic is little shy of 43L.

Let me know what you think. Appreciate your insights.
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Old 1st August 2021, 14:19   #26
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Default Re: New or used car for 25 lakhs | Which one should I buy?

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Originally Posted by motorhead123 View Post
Bro,

Besides being a motorhead, you really got some witty articulation skills. If your career is not stand-up comedy, you should explore that seriously
Thanks :-)

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Originally Posted by motorhead123 View Post
I am currently looking at a 2017 Fortuner 2WD Automatic. It has meticulous service records and just 20K gentle kilometers. Driven only by the owner and has another year of extended warranty.

The owner is commanding 30L for this. Quote for brand new 2021 2WD Automatic is little shy of 43L.

Let me know what you think. Appreciate your insights.
When you say brand new is 43L, I assume the on-road price.
With that reference point, 30L (assuming the registration is from the same state and you won't have to re-pay the road tax in another state) is not too far out (given the low miles).

Please remember though low miles is not necessarily a good thing. If a car isn't driven much, that also is a challenge with parts of the car. Example: cracked/drying tires (and other rubber components).

I would double-check the reason for low mileage and that it is, in fact, a 2017 manufactured car with all-disc brakes and other updates.

Another thing is that gently-used, sought-after cars don't last in the market for too long. Unless you have an inside track on this deal, you should also verify why is it still available and not lapped up already.

Needless to say, if you like it enough and can strike a better price deal, get the car inspected thoroughly by a neutral Toyota agency and get them to acknowledge that a) it's a clean car (no accidents), b) they would honor the extended warranty, c) there's nothing on record till date that would give them any doubt about the current owner's facts about the car

It wouldn't hurt to take your trusted mechanic (if you have one) or anyone on hire for a day -- someone who can spot painted panels or changed bumpers. It is not necessary that the car was repaired, if an accident happened, at a Toyota network dealer.

Finally, pls ensure that the car hasn't changed hands inter-state, which can sometimes mask the fact that the current owner is the 2nd or the nth owner.

Last edited by t2k4 : 1st August 2021 at 14:23. Reason: removed repetition of a word
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Old 2nd August 2021, 02:54   #27
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Default Re: New or used car for 25 lakhs | Which one should I buy?

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Originally Posted by t2k4 View Post
Thanks :-)



When you say brand new is 43L, I assume the on-road price.
With that reference point, 30L (assuming the registration is from the same state and you won't have to re-pay the road tax in another state) is not too far out (given the low miles).

Please remember though low miles is not necessarily a good thing. If a car isn't driven much, that also is a challenge with parts of the car. Example: cracked/drying tires (and other rubber components).

I would double-check the reason for low mileage and that it is, in fact, a 2017 manufactured car with all-disc brakes and other updates.

Another thing is that gently-used, sought-after cars don't last in the market for too long. Unless you have an inside track on this deal, you should also verify why is it still available and not lapped up already.

Needless to say, if you like it enough and can strike a better price deal, get the car inspected thoroughly by a neutral Toyota agency and get them to acknowledge that a) it's a clean car (no accidents), b) they would honor the extended warranty, c) there's nothing on record till date that would give them any doubt about the current owner's facts about the car

It wouldn't hurt to take your trusted mechanic (if you have one) or anyone on hire for a day -- someone who can spot painted panels or changed bumpers. It is not necessary that the car was repaired, if an accident happened, at a Toyota network dealer.

Finally, pls ensure that the car hasn't changed hands inter-state, which can sometimes mask the fact that the current owner is the 2nd or the nth owner.

Bro,

The good news is this car is in my extended circle. Not advertised anywhere and the owner is looking to sell it to a genuine buyer. The price I mentioned is out-of-door (on-road) for a brand new 2WD 2021 Fortuner. This 2017 is offered for 13L lower.

The aforementioned issues you mentioned wouldn't apply so the peace of mind one would expect when buying a used car is fully available. This is an in-state purchase so no concerns on re-registration or paying additional taxes.
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Old 7th August 2021, 17:16   #28
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The story continues.

It's increasingly becoming apparent that we will likely not meet the head-heart sweet spot in the original budget aspiration of 20-25L. We are realigning our head to this.

We have also opened up to the idea of a sedan, and not necessarily a crossover/SUV.

Although Toyota dealers (at least up north here) are notorious for not keeping test drive vehicles and are selling the cars on the basis of the brochure photos of Fortuner, we managed to get a TD of a 4x4 AT at a dealer (pure chance, we went for TD of a manual just to experience the interiors of the car, but it ended up being an AT so did the whole nine yards - interior experience + engine workout).

- The car's performance is greatly improved.
- The NVH levels are controlled.
- Acceleration and torque delivery are very good.
- The ride quality is improved but not to a level that would make someone coming from a monocoque cross-over/sedan world want to spend a whole lot of time behind the wheel. The ride's still busy.
- People/other road warriors continue to make way for the beast.

It's funny with Toyota. Most car sales are driven by an excellent pre-sales experience and a doubtful after-sales-and-service experience.

With Toyota, you quickly want to forget their sales experience. Cocky/arrogant sales advisors who think they are doing you a huge favor by speaking with you. They want to know what you do for a living, what you drive, where you live to determine if it's even worth talking to you about Fortuner.

We visited two Toyota dealers and one of them (initially) said buying car insurance and extended warranty from the dealer is an imperative for the booking and it comes as a 'package'.

During a subsequent conversation, when I stood my ground on bringing outside insurance, the sales advisor said if you don't buy insurance + extended warranty + accessories worth 1 lac from us then the wait time is 3 months. If you buy the said items from us, we can slot in your car from a 'display vehicle' delivery which could happen within a month.

Talk of shady dealings.

While all of this was happening, saw a full front-page ad of Skoda Octavia on a national daily.

Skoda hasn't been in our consideration with the Skoda experiences we've had in the family with Laura from 10-15 years ago.

But, it piqued the interest and ruffled through TBHP threads. Over-priced, missing the sunroof and low ground clearance were the takeaways. On the over-priced front, there were also references to Superb-territory pricing.

Needless to say, scanning the TBHP threads on Superb was the organic next step.

While reading 50-odd paginated discussions on the 2020 and face-lifted 2021 Superb, discovered that @GTO got a bargain deal on a Superb earlier this year, on the 2020 inventory.

GTO's vote of confidence is good enough in this world for the rest of us to at least pursue & evaluate that direction. I also read some folks were unahappy that GTO's thread diluted the discount value for subsequent buyers by a couple of lacs :-)

We took a TD of the new 2021 Superb, and wifey & I came back impressed with the hard product. The Pre-Sales experience was also very good. The only thing I would criticize about my Sales Advisor is that he tried to trick me on the fuel efficiency numbers. On the console, it said 11.1 l / 100 Km and he told me - look, it has a FE of 11.1 Kmpl. On correcting him that it's not to be read as Kmpl but as 100km/11.1 l ~ 9 Kmpl, he flushed and obediently changed the reading metric on the console (through a setting) to Kmpl instead of l/100 Km. Car salespeople will not change. Huh!

Skoda Superb is now a serious contender with the revised budget.

They are offering 2.0 lacs discount on Sportline and 2.xx on L&K.

All Skoda dealerships in Union Territory of Chandigarh and State of Punjab are owned by the same dealer, so not much of a comparison or haggling possible. I might try Haryana or Himachal to see what’s possible there.

What do fellow BHPians think of Superb 2021 as a product? And, Sportline vs L&K?

What else would folks recommend in this price bracket?

For Camry - the situation in Chandigarh is such that nearly all Toyota cars are sold on pictures alone - no TD possible. Got lucky with the Fortuner. Sad state of affairs with Toyota dealers.

Without a TD, not sure I’d plonk a huge sum on a Camry regardless of perception or pedigree.

Last edited by t2k4 : 7th August 2021 at 17:18.
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Old 8th August 2021, 11:08   #29
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Given that Skoda and Toyota hold residual values quite differently, here's an obnoxious comparison, please bear with me:

Superb vs Fortuner

A somebody in the family whose input I have to consider stated the following today:

in 10-15 years from the purchase date, Superb will fetch INR 2-3 lacs in residual value while a Fortuner will likely fetch 10 lacs.

Given that Superb also comes in 8 lacs cheaper (with discounts, etc.), the upfront saving of 8 lacs means that the saved money grows to 14-16 lacs over 10-15 years. The additional monies saved upfront could also help offset the A.S.S. issues that Superb will likely present over the course of ownership.

Is this a valid line of thinking?

Also, looking at the metal on wheels on the roads, there's a hardly a yesteryear Skoda Octavia, Superb, Fabia, Yeti or Laura to be seen while one can more frequently spot first-generation Fortuners. Where do the old Chevy Cruzes, Lauras, Octavias go in their twilight years?

Senior bhp'ians - please chime in as well. Thanks.
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Old 9th August 2021, 13:57   #30
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Default Re: New or used car for 25 lakhs | Which one should I buy?

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Given that Superb also comes in 8 lacs cheaper (with discounts, etc.), the upfront saving of 8 lacs means that the saved money grows to 14-16 lacs over 10-15 years. The additional monies saved upfront could also help offset the A.S.S. issues that Superb will likely present over the course of ownership.
Agreed. I also think many times in terms of 'opportunity cost' and where that extra money would take me. Do note that the Superb will be a lot more fun to drive & way more luxurious than the Fortuner. On the other hand:

Quote:
Also, looking at the metal on wheels on the roads, there's a hardly a yesteryear Skoda Octavia, Superb, Fabia, Yeti or Laura to be seen while one can more frequently spot first-generation Fortuners. Where do the old Chevy Cruzes, Lauras, Octavias go in their twilight years?
Today's complex luxury cars are designed for 10 years of service and the manufacturers want you to discard them after that. They are designed for 1st owners (not 2nd, 3rd or 4th owners who will see repair bills bigger than the book value) and leases (popular abroad). I doubt any original owner would keep the Superb beyond 10 years, although a Fortuner is the kind of Toyota body-on-frame diesel that can be handed down to your kids (or grandkids?).

Go for the Superb if you want driving pleasure + luxury + comfy ride quality, but will put up with the issues & gremlins, of which there will be plenty once the car ages (I mentally prepare myself for 1 major issue per year on any 6+ year old German car). Not to mention, higher fuel costs. Go for the Fortuner if you want an SUV, drive on bad roads, love that macho + butch stance, 3rd row of seats & need something for abuse, but at the cost of ride comfort & driving pleasure (although the Fortuner does offer a different kind of driving satisfaction).

Last edited by GTO : 9th August 2021 at 13:58.
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