[LiamJose]

Good evening folks,

I am really in a big mess when it comes to selecting my new ride. Now there are guys who love SUVs and then there are guys who love Sedans but the problem is I love sedans and SUVs. So when it comes to my budget, which is around 25yish lakh, there are so many options out there.

Now, the car that I drive now is a sedan. It's a Skoda Octavia Rider(MK1). In fact, we've upgraded it from a Maruti Zen. I really loved the Zen so much. What I really liked about it was that even if Zen isn't fast on paper, I felt like it was a fun driving car. I still wonder how a car that can go from 0-100 in like 15 seconds or so can be such a fun filled car. When I was kid, I always thought Zen is a slow car and if I upgrade it to a bigger car, It'd be much faster but quite honestly, when I've test driven some cars, it didn't meet my wild expectations. There is nothing I dislike about that car. May be, as a young boy, I really wanted my car to be a bit more flashy but other than that, nothing. There were times, I would race and beat bigger cars on road when I was a kid. Lovely memories.

Octavia was nothing less than a tank. It seems like one door of Octavia is heavier than two doors of Zen and my dad would say that almost all the time. Mom needed help at times to open the door especially if the car is not parked on level surface. Now, I really liked the way it looks - just beautiful in red. Now, straight speed stability was much better than Zen. In fact, it was so good that sometimes, even if you're going at 80 km/h, you feel bored. We'd feel like we are going so slow, that wasn't the case with Zen. It was very comfortable. Now, there were some problems though. One fine day, while I was pushing it, the engine stopped running and I was like there is no way this can happen at 80 km/h. I stopped the car and now there is a check engine light and I started the car again and the light is still there. The car has turned from a fighter jet to an auto in no time. It would run but it would run so slow that the slowest car can easily beat it now. That's the first day I understood that there is a mode called "LIMP" mode. I don't want to write about fixing the car but I'd love to think that fixing a space ship is easier. So yeah, unlike Zen this one had disadvantages too but quite frankly, if it wasn't for Skoda, I wouldn't have become an expert in car terminology by now. Now, the young boy in me has that flashy, one of the best looking cars out there but am I so happy with it? One part of me is extremely happy with its performance and looks but the other part of me is not when it comes to reliability.


Now, it was one hell of a ride with both my cars. Now, I wanted the performance of a German car with the reliability of a Japanese car only to know that it doesn't exist. My dad and I both wanted to buy a Mercedes Benz but then we were like the cost of ownership is much higher so we thought of a Toyota Fortuner. Well, it has got the style, it has got decent performance and it is most importantly reliable. Then, many told us that it has got a bumpy ride. That's how we even thought of Innova. Actually, I thought about new Civic, Elantra as well. Now, there is Kia Seltos, Hyundai Alcazar, Tata Harrier and Safari. This is what makes the whole selection so confusing.

I have test driven the new Toyota Innova Crysta 2.4 GX and what I've felt is that the performance isn't like I thought. I thought it'd be boring to drive because it's a people mover at the end of the day. In fact, it somehow reminded me of Zen. It doesn't seems to have the best power to weight ratio yet its on-road performance isn't so bad. In fact, it's good especially when using power mode. What I really liked about the ride is that it's more like a Volvo bus. When we accelerate, it does make a raspy note but once we reach the speed, its super silent and it just flows as if we are in alladin's magic carpet. I felt that the ride isn't as plush as Octavia when it comes to slow speeds. That most probably is due to the smaller side wall of the 17 inches but I am not sure. Anyway, the auto-box isn't quick. There is a small lag but I didn't feel like it's like the turbo lag of a Maruti Ritz DDIS. The steering is a bit on the harder side.I have test driven the new Octavia as well and that's much faster for sure but I feel like this time, I want a Japanese car. I gotta be honest, I still would pick the Octavia if it was as reliable as an Innova. Now, the AC is a chiller. I had to turn it off after sometime. There is something I didn't like about the Toyota. The overall cabin quality isn't the best, at least compared to the Germans. Do I really care it? I don't know but if there is something I dislike about this car, that's the quality of materials. The VX version has it better and we can actually add-on many parts of VX to GX.

Thank you for listening to my story and I'd love to get your expert recommendations. I'd love to hear your opinions guys.

Our priorities are

Reliability
Performance
Comfort
Everything else would be an add-on

[Bibendum90949]

Welcome to the forum Liam. Just noticed that it's your maiden post.

A Laura TDI MT owner for 10 years here. Skoda Octavia(MK1) was a gem of a car and was way ahead of it's times. It's still a looker, one of my most favourite cars. I understand what you've gone through with reliability of your Skoda. But trust me, Skoda has been largely reliable in the past decade especially the MT ones. DSG failures was the most common issue. But Skoda now claims that they've improved upon that. So reliability isn't as much of an issue compared to the MK1 times. Skoda now has a 6 year extended warranty too. So I would say don't rule out Skoda totally from your radar, be it Octavia, Superb or Kodiaq. The new Kodiaq is due for launch, but as you may know it's only in TSI. I would say you should give it a shot if lack of diesel isn't a problem for you.

Having said that, If you're looking for total peace of mind then Toyota is the answer. But you can't expect the dynamics of a German car though it's an MPV. Another option is Endeavour 10 speed AT if you're the one who doesn't lose sleep over whether Ford will pack their bags from here or not. It's an excellent package TBH. Since you were contemplating Harrier, Innova etc you should have a look at the Ford too. Hyundai Tucson is another car worth considering.

Happy Hunting!

OT : You'll know how much I like MK1 Octavia from my following posts

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

For me it's the old Skoda Octavia. With its clean and straight lines, it's still a looker in my eyes even after almost two decades. The stance of this car is always an enthralling sight.

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

+1. This is still a crush for me. Never miss a chance to tail behind whenever I spot one on the road. A car that was way ahead of time and with it's looks, style and proportion still give all the contemporary lulus a run for its money. Timeless !!

[PetrolHead2272]

Originally Posted by LiamJose

Our priorities are

Reliability
Performance
Comfort
Everything else would be an add-on

Only a few cars can match Innova Crysta on reliability and comfort. If performance is a main criteria, then I'd suggest you to look at a used BS4 Innova Crysta with the larger and more powerful 2.8 litre engine.
It's an absolute hoot to drive. Depending on the area you live in, you'd get a great 2-3 year old 2.8 litre Innova for around 18-21 Lakhs.

If you don't want an Innova, I would suggest the Jeep Compass. A close friend of mine owns one.
The 2.0 litre engine in it is simply wonderful and he has never faced a problem with either the car or the servicing. Comfort might be an area where the Compass lags slightly though.

Thanks.

[landcruiser123]

Sure, the Innova does a good job on the criteria you mentioned.

Just make sure you enjoy the car in winding roads as much as you do on straight roads. The Zen & Octavia are fun to handle, but the Innova is a top-heavy van that can't take corners at speed like your previous rides.

Originally Posted by LiamJose

Our priorities are

Reliability
Performance
Comfort
Everything else would be an add-on

[porsche_guy]

In your case, it's the classic Head vs. Heart problem. The Crysta is appealing to your practical side and it offers a high level of practicality and versatility as well. On the other hand your Heart isn't convinced with the material quality, the BOF driving dynamics (totally understandable coming from a wonderful sedan like the Mk1 Octavia) and you're trying hard to convince it by saying the "power" mode makes it good.

My suggestion would definitely be to look at a pre owned BMW F30 320d. This will satisfy the requirements of being reasonably practical and actually quite reliable along with the dynamics of a BMW! Drive some examples once and then look back at the Crysta. The badge value is another bonus as well and its main characteristics of being a hoot to drive. The fact that you stay in KL would work to your advantage as well as that's where you will find some of the best pre owned examples in the country.

Go for it! You don't change cars often and you only live once!

Here's a listing I found on a random Google search-
https://www.olx.in/item/bmw-3-series...iid-1645071760

[07CR]

Originally Posted by LiamJose

Our priorities are

Reliability
Performance
Comfort
Everything else would be an add-on

Have you considered the MG Hector here? Everytime I see someone confused with Innova, my immediate recommendation is a MG Hector.

It satisfies your Comfort priority in more than abundance, while performance has been more than adequate in the petrol motors, and is great with the diesel.
Can't comment much on the reliability aspect, since the car is just 2 years old, but whatever I have read through the ownership reviews, it does have a very a positive image.

Other option could be the XUV700, and upcoming MG Astor. Both should satisfy your thirst for performance with their motors churning out 197 PS and 163 PS respectively!

[LiamJose]

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

Welcome to the forum Liam. Just noticed that it's your maiden post.

A Laura TDI MT owner for 10 years here. Skoda Octavia(MK1) was a gem of a car and was way ahead of it's times. It's still a looker, one of my most favourite cars. I understand what you've gone through with reliability of your Skoda. But trust me, Skoda has been largely reliable in the past decade especially the MT ones. DSG failures was the most common issue. But Skoda now claims that they've improved upon that. So reliability isn't as much of an issue compared to the MK1 times. Skoda now has a 6 year extended warranty too. So I would say don't rule out Skoda totally from your radar, be it Octavia, Superb or Kodiaq. The new Kodiaq is due for launch, but as you may know it's only in TSI. I would say you should give it a shot if lack of diesel isn't a problem for you.

Having said that, If you're looking for total peace of mind then Toyota is the answer. But you can't expect the dynamics of a German car though it's an MPV. Another option is Endeavour 10 speed AT if you're the one who doesn't lose sleep over whether Ford will pack their bags from here or not. It's an excellent package TBH. Since you were contemplating Harrier, Innova etc you should have a look at the Ford too. Hyundai Tucson is another car worth considering.

Happy Hunting!

OT : You'll know how much I like MK1 Octavia from my following posts

Yes, it's my maiden post. Thank you for your warm welcome.

I totally agree with you. I just love how the Octy looks even now. I mean, it's an old car yet it looks so beautiful. When I was a kid, I used to look Octavia with wide open mouth and I used to peep into the speedometer In fact, I love the new Octavia too. I'll definitely test it out but I'd say a fuss free experience from Zen to Octavia shocked me a bit.

My cousin has Ford Endeavor 3.2 and it was in my list too but frankly speaking I don't have the budget to buy that car. I talked with Ford to see if there are any used ones but they said 3.2 Fords are pretty rare. Hyundai Tucson is also out of my reach I guess.

Originally Posted by 07CR

Have you considered the MG Hector here? Everytime I see someone confused with Innova, my immediate recommendation is a MG Hector.

It satisfies your Comfort priority in more than abundance, while performance has been more than adequate in the petrol motors, and is great with the diesel.
Can't comment much on the reliability aspect, since the car is just 2 years old, but whatever I have read through the ownership reviews, it does have a very a positive image.

Other option could be the XUV700, and upcoming MG Astor. Both should satisfy your thirst for performance with their motors churning out 197 PS and 163 PS respectively!

I haven't considered Hector. There are a couple of reasons for that. Firstly, for some reason, I am not really into the way it looks. I have heard that it has a lot of gizmos, probably way more than its competitors.

I'll be using this car for a long time so can MG and Mahindra live up to my expectations? The numbers are amazing for sure but I wonder how it'd feel to feel those numbers. I guess, only a test drive can really say. In fact, my dream is to buy a very reliable car with great ride comfort and then later on, I'd love to add a Mini Cooper JCW soft top as a performance ride. Then probably a Porsche since its my favorite company.

[VRJ]

Originally Posted by 07CR

Have you considered the MG Hector here? Everytime I see someone confused with Innova, my immediate recommendation is a MG Hector.

It satisfies your Comfort priority in more than abundance, while performance has been more than adequate in the petrol motors, and is great with the diesel.
Can't comment much on the reliability aspect, since the car is just 2 years old, but whatever I have read through the ownership reviews, it does have a very a positive image.

No way. I strongly disagree with your recommendation. There’s nothing that the MG Hector offers, other than few tech gizmos and better speakers, that are worth considering over an Innova. Coming from a 2009 Innova and 2018 Fortuner owner, there’s no way I would cross shop between an Innova and a Hector.

My thoughts on Innova vs Hector as per OP’s priorities:

Reliability: A personal experience of how unreliable MG is. A good friend of mine who lives in my apartment got the Hector diesel top end and sold it in less than a year. It broke down twice. He had to book a flatbed. Had multiple issues with brakes. Sunroof wouldn’t close on multiple occasions. Sunroof squeaked a lot and the list goes on. He took a 5 Lakh depreciation hit and sold the car couple of weeks back. Guess what he’s replacing it with? An Innova or a Fortuner.

Performance: Hahaa the hectors performance is a joke to be honest. It was the most disappointing car I’ve ever driven. No offence to the owners. I went in for a test drive a while ago, while we were looking for a replacement of our Baleno diesel, with a lot of expectations. I was with the assumption that the Hector is going to outperform my Fortuner since the power figures are similar (70NM low on torque) and the Hector weighs less. My heavy Fortuner performs very well and is surprisingly very quick when I use the power mode and I expected the Hector is going to be a rocket. So, technically it should perform better. But I was surprised how MG has tuned the engine and the gearbox. It’s just disappointing. It just doesn’t pull. The gearbox in itself feels cheap. The shifting of gears isn’t satisfying at all. The driving experience is just a let down. My 1.3 Baleno is soo much more better than the Hector. The same engine in the Harrier and the Safari performs better. At least that’s how I felt after driving the new Safari.

Comfort: The rear seat of the Hector offers good leg room, however, the most important part for a comfortable ride is under thigh support which the Hector has ZERO. Should be alright in the city, but on the highways it’s a big no for me personally.

Why Toyota Innova 2.4 AT? That is one brilliant car to drive and own. The 2.4 and the 2.8 are fantastic engines. Let’s just keep everything aside. The features, the reliability, the comfort and everything aside for a moment. Show me one car in this price bracket that’ll age as well as an Innova? And I want you to be certain of it. There’s just no other car. Our 2009 Innova which has done 270,000 kms feels just the way it did back in 2009. The same engine pull and sound. Nothing changed. I’ve aged, but the car hasn’t. Our 2018 Fortuner did around 54,000 kms and the engine feels fresh from the factory. Toyota’s engines and transmissions are just brilliant. The 2.4 may not be as punchy as the 2.8, but it’s plenty enough. I drove a 2.4 Innova from Bangalore to Coorg and not one moment I felt it struggled on the highway with 6 people on-board. Just yesterday I came back from a 600 km round trip on our Fortuner. The last 150 kms there was a 2.4 Innova right behind us and it kept up brilliantly well. We all know how good the seats on an Innova are. I’m 6’2 and I sat for around 6 hours in the third row a month back. The middle row seat was pushed a bit forward, but the drive was totally alright.

SUV’s and MPV’s aren’t known for cornering for sure. It can totally handle any ghat road you throw at it. It’s not like you’ll hit the corners at speeds over 80-100 kmph for handling to be an important factor. How many days in a year do you visit the ghats? I’m guessing you spend more time in traffic and on National Highways than Ghats. So, an Innova is an ideal car. If you’re in to pre-owned, I’d recommend to search for 2.8 AT or just go for a brand new 2.4 AT.

As 07CR recommended, the XUV700 is a good option as well. Mahindra makes good reliable Diesel engines. The Safari is also a good option. A friend got it and the suspension is top notch. The performance on the highways is very good. The NVH levels are good as well. The stock audio setup is lit. But a Safari and a Mahindra come with their own set of niggles.

Cheers!

[07CR]

Originally Posted by VRJ

No way. I strongly disagree with your recommendation. There’s nothing that the MG Hector offers, other than few tech gizmos and better speakers, that are worth considering over an Innova. Coming from a 2009 Innova and 2018 Fortuner owner, there’s no way I would cross shop between an Innova and a Hector.

My thoughts on Innova vs Hector as per OP’s priorities:

Reliability: A personal experience of how unreliable MG is. A good friend of mine who lives in my apartment got the Hector diesel top end and sold it in less than a year. It broke down twice. He had to book a flatbed. Had multiple issues with brakes. Sunroof wouldn’t close on multiple occasions. Sunroof squeaked a lot and the list goes on. He took a 5 Lakh depreciation hit and sold the car couple of weeks back. Guess what he’s replacing it with? An Innova or a Fortuner.

I feel sorry for your friend. He probably has got a lemon of a car. I am in no way suggesting the Hector would be as reliable as Toyota's but in my experience, I have seen the first hand experience of the owners being very happy with their steeds. Also, if we try we can find issues with T badged vehicles in even TBhp!

Personally, on the performance part, the diesel is very punchy and the same has been mentioned in TBhps official review. Performance from petrol would be subjective, but IMO it's adequate.

On the comfort, I believe, it's one of the most comfortable cars, on this side of 20L. Some excerpts from TBhp's official review-

Front seats are upholstered in leather and comfortable, even for larger drivers. The seats are firm and the headrests are soft. Under thigh support is adequate. Despite missing out on adjustable lumbar support, the seats offer good support on long drives.

Legroom is generous and two 6-footers can easily sit one behind the other in comfort. Thanks to the lack of a floor hump, even the middle occupant will be comfortable. Cabin width is healthy, which means three adults can sit quite comfortably. It's A lovely, comfortable long distance cruiser.

The Hector is big on the “wow” factor. Family members & friends who sat inside were “wowed” by the panoramic sunroof, tablet ICE & comfort levels.

Excerpt's from GTO's quote-

In terms of product, I think the Hector is a good choice for those looking at calm + refined + comfortable cruising, whether on the highway or in the city. I took it on a road-trip to Pune and my family absolutely loved it! I have to admit that I enjoyed the easy cruising experience too.

That said, for OP, the performance (from petrol) needs to be judged by a thorough test drive. If OP is looking for throttle to the metal driving, better avoid Hector. But if the comfort parameter matters more, atleast do take a test drive.

Cheers!

[VRJ]

Originally Posted by 07CR

I feel sorry for your friend. He probably has got a lemon of a car. I am in no way suggesting the Hector would be as reliable as Toyota's but in my experience, I have seen the first hand experience of the owners being very happy with their steeds.

Yeah I guess we have different personal experiences with the Hector. My friends car was probably a lemon. The test drive vehicle (diesel and petrol AT hector) had no pickup and the panoramic sunroof was squeaking in both the cars and they were fairly new with less than 5,000 kms on the ODO. That’s 3/3 with some niggles and I don’t like those odds.

Don’t quote me on this, but my personal opinion is I don’t think I would ever cross shop between a Hector and an Innova. Both cars have their pros and cons. It’s just that if a person wants an Innova, he/she is going to get an Innova. His/her priorities are different. Maybe if I was in the market for a Creta/Seltos/Alcazar, then I would be looking at the Hector and Hector plus as an alternative. Even if I was looking at the Harrier/Safari duo, I wouldn’t consider Hector duo to be an alternative. The Tata’s have their share of niggles, but they’re dynamically more sorted than the Hector. Just my person opinion.

Coming to the official team-bhp review, I believe it’s one of those rare moments I disagree with the review. I drove two diesel manual hectors and they had no diesel torque punch. As I said earlier, my Baleno had much more punch than the Hector. Well, I guess all the hectors I drove were lemons. The comfort part, the front seats are good for sure. Well, most cars have good front seats (the new Thar being an exception). It’s the rear bench that I don’t like. Acres of legroom, but poor under-thigh support. I’m 6’2 and my friend who accompanied me is 6 and both of us didn’t like the rear seat. I guess it depends on the person.

The 2.4GX AT is phenomenal value for money in the long term. Major misses when compared to the ZX are the side and curtain airbags, the LED headlights, fog lights and automatic climate control. The rest are cosmetic. GX gets 3 airbags, infotainment screen with CarPlay and Android Auto, manual AC, no start-stop button, no fancy alloys and less chrome on the outside. I think what seals the deal for me personally is that the GX has the same smooth powerful frugal 2.4 Diesel engine with an automatic transmission, cruise control and CarPlay. It’s got the basics sorted.

What shocks me though is the 6L on-road price difference between the two variants. Should’ve been half of that to be honest. Well, that’s Toyota. They have a strong mechanical team and a poor management team.

Cheers!

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by 07CR

That said, for OP, the performance (from petrol) needs to be judged by a thorough test drive. If OP is looking for throttle to the metal driving, better avoid Hector. But if the comfort parameter matters more, atleast do take a test drive.

Cheers!

To a large extent, I also agree to VRJ's assessment of the Hector.

The rear seats are not very comfortable.
I have first hand hand experience of these, and it appears like the seats are placed a touch too low.
The fit & finish is nowhere near Korean/German standards as well.

[One]

Originally Posted by VRJ

What shocks me though is the 6L on-road price difference between the two variants. Should’ve been half of that to be honest.

Cheers!

Please don't say this publicly. If Toyota hears this, they will probably raise the price of the GX to reduce the price difference to half rather than reduce ZX pricing.

[AJ56]

Given your requirements and budget I’d say stretch a little and get the new Octavia that’s just launched, you can get the style variant for around 29L on road (before discounts).

If open to used cars, you can easily get a lightly used 330i for around the same, make sure you get extended warranty for whatever car you get and you’ll have peace of mind. Cheers.

[niruvrs9669]

Originally Posted by LiamJose

Now, the car that I drive now is a sedan. It's a Skoda Octavia Rider(MK1).

Is your Octavia Rider a Petrol ?

I’ve got an mk1 VRs, it’s been 15 years of joyful ownership and I’m keeping it for good.

I recently booked a Crysta 2.4Z for its proven reliability and long term use. It’s pretty roomy inside for a family mover and felt the power is adequate for its use. Considered Kodiaq and Endy, but chose Crysta for its practicality, also it’s cheaper by a good margin.

[umairalvi]

The Octavia definitely is one legendary car and finding a replacement is no easy job.
I would say.. current gen Octavia is a good option. Skoda claims the gearbox to be more reliable. The ride is more plush and the enthusiast factor has been toned down a bit compared to the older generations. The cabin quality has taken a leap. It feels more like a lite version of the Superb.
That being said, don't discount the Hyundai Tucson Diesel 2.0. The car may be an older generation model but I say give it a test drive. I am sure you will have fun with the amount of torque on offer. It's got 185 PS under its hood which is more than enough to make sure you get the beans. The steering doesn't offer much feel (typical Hyundai trait) and is best at city speeds. Sports mode does weight up the steering artificially and suits highway driving. The rear seats are quite comfortable too. The windows sit a bit high but that isn't a major issue. If you can look past the slightly dated interiors and a relatively older design (which I personally like), Tucson isn't a bad choice at all. Hyundais are as reliable as say a Toyota or Honda these days.
No offence but people mostly look at an Innova as a car which is meant to be driven around in. I would prefer to be in the back seat of an Innova most of the time.
The Jeep Compass is too overpriced (higher variants) for what it offers. Being a 6 footer, I find the rear seat space to be limited too. It just feels a size smaller for a car to be priced this high.
Personally, we were also in a similar dilemma to a couple of months ago. We had to decide between replacing the Octavia or keeping it alongside a newer car (we own a Honda Jazz too). We ended up selling the Jazz and getting the Tucson instead. So, now we have got the best of both worlds.