[topaz2011]

Originally Posted by shancz

- Understand your situation and will go with your decision to get a CSUV with a safety focus.

Thanks for the informative post - very helpful
So yes, I will start with the TDs of the following:
a) Nexon
b) xuv 300
c) Breeza
d) Renault Kiger(more interested towards the CVT)

& thinking of checking out the Honda city 4th gen - seems to be a VFM package and within budget. Any thoughts on going for this one - in terms of performance, maintenance & last gen technology?

Also will wait for the Vitara prices although in all probability it will be exceeding my budget.

[shankar.balan]

Interesting thread and interesting queries.
Some inputs.
1. The little Alto or indeed the Maruti 800 was always a super performer in the hills because of its lightweight nature and naturally aspirated engine and front wheel drive all of which enabled it to climb up those ghats very nicely. Yes there is a school of thought that rear wheel drive vehicles perform better in the hills and that is true in the case of the heavier vehicles like Jeeps and all.
2.Turbo petrols will have a bit of lag for sure when climbing up. However it is all about maintaining momentum and your optimal driving line through the uphill curves.
3. Ref AT - CVT gearbox will keep hunting for the optimal gear. I prefer the directness and engagement of the DSG or Torque Converter.
4. Most of the big shiny SUVs that struggle in the hills I would say, is because of the inexperience of the drivers.

Originally Posted by topaz2011

Thanks
People these days get surprised when they hear I drive a 11 yr old basic maruti through hair pin bends in hills. On the way I see people struggling with the inclines in their shiny gizmo filled beasty SUVs. I am not sure whether its the lack of their driving ability or the cars are lacking power in steep inclines. If


a) You mentioned NA engines perform better in hilly areas compared to Turbo. Does that mean I would be better off going for NA petrol engines rather that turbo ones. I have absolutely nil experience in driving a turbo. All I know is the moment i press the accelerator of my 11 yr old k10 - it just flies I am sure I wont feel good if there is a lag before the turbo kicks in.

b) Does it help with minimizing the taxes etc, if I go for the lower variant option (ex showroom price) and later
c) CVT / AT gearbox : Do they get stalled ?(again I have nil experience in driving an AT) Like If I stop in a incline, the engine has got high probability to get stalled if I dont play around with clutch, break, accelerator in the correct order, also on top of that mitigate roll backs (since mango people like me didn't even heard of hill hold or whatever it is in 2011)
Just wanted to understand whether in automatics, the engine would get stalled or not once you come to a stand still in a steep incline & want to move again. (hope people understand what I am trying to convey here)

Apologies if I am more into hill driving related scenarios since city driving - its all about potholes and bumper to bumper traffic which any modern day car would be easily able to manage comfortably.

[topaz2011]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Interesting thread and interesting queries.
Some inputs.
2.Turbo petrols will have a bit of lag for sure when climbing up. However it is all about maintaining momentum and your optimal driving line through the uphill curves.
3. Ref AT - CVT gearbox will keep hunting for the optimal gear. I prefer the directness and engagement of the DSG or Torque Converter.

Thanks for your perspective.

It seems for me manual NA petrol is better than the turbo ones.

I had an option of Renault Kiger CVT in my mind but maybe you are right, CVT will keep on trying to engage the optimal gear.
In my K10, I usually have to drive in first gear in some of the hair pin bends (when in full load) to counter the steep inclines. Since I have no experience with AT/CVTs, not sure how easy or effortless it is to counter those.

I don't have the budget to go for DSG or Torque converters
I liked the 1.5 Nissan Kicks petrol manual as well but skeptical on the extremely low FE figures.

[KPR]

Originally Posted by topaz2011

Thanks for your perspective.

It seems for me manual NA petrol is better than the turbo ones.

I had an option of Renault Kiger CVT in my mind but maybe you are right, CVT will keep on trying to engage the optimal gear.
In my K10, I usually have to drive in first gear in some of the hair pin bends (when in full load) to counter the steep inclines. Since I have no experience with AT/CVTs, not sure how easy or effortless it is to counter those.

So the choices are narrowed down to Japanese. At 9.99L ex showroom;
1. Brezza VXI
2. Honda City 4th Gen V

Both have necessary and more desirable features at that price. If you want ultimate rear comfort with gem of NA engine then please check out Honda city 4th gen. For second best NA engine, GC and ease ingress and egress Brezza makes sense.

[shankar.balan]

Consider the Mahindra XUV300.
Its a very safe car and it will do all that you ask it to in an uncomplaining manner.
Buy the manual. After all on nice winding hill roads there is much joy to be had in a manual.
It is at the end of the day a Korean Ssangyong. And it is a very good alternative to the other cars under consideration.

Originally Posted by topaz2011

Thanks for your perspective.

It seems for me manual NA petrol is better than the turbo ones.

Since I have no experience with AT/CVTs, not sure how easy or effortless it is to counter those.

I don't have the budget to go for DSG or Torque converters
I liked the 1.5 Nissan Kicks petrol manual as well but skeptical on the extremely low FE figures.

[topaz2011]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Consider the Mahindra XUV300.
Its a very safe car and it will do all that you ask it to in an uncomplaining manner.
Buy the manual. After all on nice winding hill roads there is much joy to be had in a manual.
It is at the end of the day a Korean Ssangyong. And it is a very good alternative to the other cars under consideration.

Agree.

Only concern is boot space (lowest in the segment).
For years I did lot of circus to load baggage for those weekend trips so want to go for a bigger boot this time.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by topaz2011

thinking of checking out the Honda city 4th gen - seems to be a VFM package and within budget. Any thoughts on going for this one - in terms of performance, maintenance & last gen technology?

The best 1.5NA in the market with a MT in a relatively light car, FTD in my books.
Honda's maintenance is fuss-free too as reported on the forum and real life examples I see.
Technology wise, nothing magical has happened in the engine in the new gen. Its not a smartphone

Some points to ponder :
- We have to pay attention to reports of cost cutting and rusting by Shreyansh_Jain earlier in the thread. It will be exaggerated in your driving conditions.
- The V model is around 12 lakhs on road Bangalore and the 5th Gen City's V model is 14.2 lakhs. In this case I would say better to go for the latest Gen City if your budget permits.
- If you're open to the 4th Gen city then do TD the S-Cross as well, it will fit your requirements much better and spares and serviceability of MSIL cars is much better than others like you already know with your K10.
The Zeta model is around 12 lakhs on road too.


But didn't you want a "higher seated" SUV to deal with the changed demographic ?
If you're open to sedans then more options come up like the Ciaz/Verna etc. and the SUV form isn't essential then why not a premium hatch ?

I understand how easy it is to sway in such decisions but IMO finalize your requirements first. Essentials like form/fuel/budget/space/boot etc. has to be fixed first.
Else create a shortlist of cars you'd like in your budget and TD all of them, then go by whichever keeps you happy the most

Something like this could help, please note they are my personal preferences, no way a suggestion, yours will be different :

[itsmeparvathy9]

I Certainly feel the Kia Sonet is a better car overall, as it has more features, stronger engines and a far better cabin than all of its competitors in the sub 4 metre SUV/crossover segment and although you could say safety is debatable, it is the only car in the segment that offers 4 airbags standard, However the only issue with it is the lack of rear seat space.

If you are into Diesel Automatics, Kia Sonet in diesel AT form is the best compact SUV you can buy today. In fact, the Sonet diesel is smoother and faster than the 1.0-litre turbopetrol Sonet too.

[khanmaj]

Hello BHPians,
Trust you all and your loved ones are doing well.
I am very confused right now. I need your opinion on this post. I am looking forward to get a car for my brother by November first week. It must a CSUV. Our 10 years old XUV500 has clocked more than 225K on the odometer and now we have decided to let it go because of the age of the vehicle & frequent issues. I also have a Tiago here in Delhi which is going to complete 3 years soon. I have never had any issues with this little beast and it has run around 16K so far. The after sales service has been satisfactory from Tata.
The new car would be a replacement of the XUV500 and the need is to get a small car with high ground clearance hence the CSUV. The Car will be used in my hometown which is a semi-rural area in UP and the big ASS of all the manufacturers are in Lucknow which is around 200 Km from my place.
My brother is a newbie driver. He learned his driving in the XUV and he will be the one driving the new one.
Considering the above scenario and the ASS availability, we have decided to get only the essential features in the new car as less electrical is equal to less point of failure. Now the main point, the budget. It should not exceed 9.5L OTR.
The car must be very reliable and durable with less maintenance. I have shortlisted the below based on the requirement and the budget.
1- Nexon XE or XM (OTR 8.6 and 9.6L)
2- Brezza Lxi (OTR 9.2L)
3- Sonet 1.2 P HTK (OTR 9.2L)
The required features should be –
1- Power Windows.
2- Good head lights
3- Loaded with active & passive safety features.
4- Steering mounted control
5- Back camera
6- Rear defogger would be great
7- Child safety & speed sensor lock
I have driven both Nexon and Brezza and found the driving dynamics and the handling is more than etiquette in both low and high speed. I have not driven the Sonet though as most of the dealers don’t have the 1.2 P available for the TD. Here are the pros and cons of the above vehicles. This is purely my POV.

Nexon : Pros
1- Superb handling and powerful 1.2 L turbo petrol engine across variant.
2- Best safety features provided from the base variant.
3- Ground clearance and amazing front facia.
4- Projector head lamps.
Nexon : Cons
1- Less refined 3 cylinder engine. NVH level is more than others in the segment.
2- ASS is still a gamble at least in the non-metro cities.
3- Fit and finish is not as good as others in the segment.
Both XE and XM variants are in the budget and XE variant is more value for money considering the features we need and it has all the safety features available. I can get the audio system (Andriod & Apple car play) and camera installed from aftermarket. The XM does not provide either of them anyway. The only thing which creates doubt in the mind is the unexpected niggles and issues crops up in Tata cars every now and then.

Brezz : Pros
1- Gem of car with 1.5 L NA petrol engine.
2- Reliability and easy to maintain.
3- Handling and drivability is more than ok.
4- Maruti known for good ASS
Brezza : Cons
1- Very bland and basic interior in the Lxi variant
2- The ugly black cladding which reminds Kwid
3- Maruti cars known for rattling issues after couple of years of ownership.
The brezza Lxi should have been our default pick but the all-around unnecessary plastic cladding looks ugly (no offence to any owner). This is the only car from Maruti which I can consider to buy, rest I would not even take a look at. The interior looks cheap and they have not given headrest on the back seat. This is unbelievable a car costing north of 9 L does not even have fixed headrest This makes me literally furious. They can put the cladding but not the headrest. Seems they are consuming some Columbian stuff.

Sonet : Pros
1- Loaded with all the necessary features and has 4 air bags.
2- The 1.2 L Petrol NA must be refined.
3- Good looking car and both interior and exterior feels premium
Sonet : Cons
1- Not sure if the 1.2 L is sufficient for such a big car.
2- It has the weakest engine from list.
3- Halogens head lamps.
4- Kia cars are new to us not sure how they will age.
5- No first-hand experience with their ASS.
Sonnet made the entry in the list after I saw Brezza facelift which misses on some very basic features. This is a downgrade from the older generation brezza. Both Nexon and brezza are in the market for a very long time but same cannot be said about Sonet.
Now, I have tried my best to provide you the scenario, affordability, and the requirement. Please help me here to make an informed decision. I would have taken any car from this list had I been using it but here the main deciding factor is the ASS availability and distance from my place. My brother would not be able to make frequent visits to the service center in case of minor niggles hence looking for something which require only the annual visits for the service. Also, special request from the Sonet 1.2 L owners to share their experience with car in terms of reliability and the engine powertrain.

[shancz]

Also take a look at the XUV300 W4, might just make it price wise but see if the essential features are present.

Check if any existing stock of the older Brezza is available for a discount.

The Nexon has been around for quite a few years now and nothing major has occurred so you shouldn't worry much about the niggles but the service experience could be hit/miss.

No idea on the Sonet.

[itsmeparvathy9]

The 1.2 litre turbo petrol on the Nexon (118 bhp of power and 170 nm of torqque) and 1.5 litre NA petrol on the Brezza (102 bhp of power and 137 nm of torque) are much better performers than the 1.2 litre NA petrol of the Sonet and Venue which churns out just 82 bhp of power and 115 nm of torque.

As regards refinement, the 4-cylinder Brezza and Sonet are more refined than the 3-cylinder Nexon.

The Mahindra XUV300 is a good choice but the W4 Petrol will cost 9.55 lakhs on road and is a bare-bones variant of the car, although the engine is great.

My recommendation would be that you buy the Tata Nexon XE Variant for 8.61 lakhs on road and spend the amount you save on rear camera, touchscreen and accessories required.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by itsmeparvathy9

If you are into Diesel Automatics, Kia Sonet in diesel AT form is the best compact SUV you can buy today.

When it comes to automatic diesels the Sonet Diesel AT has been spoken highly on TBHP for its smoothness, ease and frugality. With the features on offer it makes for an excellent city car with the only catch being the DPF issues and their mitigation.
When it comes to automatic petrols the competition increases especially with the new Brezza which matches the features to a great extent(maybe not all), competent engine and then adds the MSIL benefits along with potential 4+ GNCAP rating.
On manual petrols the likes of XUV300, Nexon etc. bring their own USPs with safety coming at the top, probably the ride quality too.

in case of topaz2011 the Sonet misses out due to the clear requirements of :

Originally Posted by topaz2011

1) Safety (rating 4 or 5)
2) 5 seater (adequate space for 3 at the back)
3) Good boot space (for road trips)
4) Reliable and fun-to-drive
5) Petrol (since my yearly running doesn’t make sense to go for diesel)

My usage would be primarily city driving with one road trip every quarter (involves highway driving, ghats, hair pin bends - hill driving).

[AZT]

Is there any reason you are not looking at Renault Kiger and Nissan Magnite. Renault should have a service centre in all major locations. I just checked and the S cross base variant should Also come at ~ 10 l OTR so maybe you can check that out as well if it has all the features you’re looking for.

[khanmaj]

Originally Posted by shancz

Also take a look at the XUV300 W4, might just make it price wise but see if the essential features are present.

Check if any existing stock of the older Brezza is available for a discount.

The Nexon has been around for quite a few years now and nothing major has occurred so you shouldn't worry much about the niggles but the service experience could be hit/miss.

No idea on the Sonet.

Thank you for your valuable suggestion. I considered XUV300 initially but the interior of W4 is below par than my 10 years old 500. I have contacted the dealer for a TD. So let see how it goes.

Originally Posted by itsmeparvathy9

The 1.2 litre turbo petrol on the Nexon (118 bhp of power and 170 nm of torqque) and 1.5 litre NA petrol on the Brezza (102 bhp of power and 137 nm of torque) are much better performers than the 1.2 litre NA petrol of the Sonet and Venue which churns out just 82 bhp of power and 115 nm of torque.

As regards refinement, the 4-cylinder Brezza and Sonet are more refined than the 3-cylinder Nexon.

The Mahindra XUV300 is a good choice but the W4 Petrol will cost 9.55 lakhs on road and is a bare-bones variant of the car, although the engine is great.

My recommendation would be that you buy the Tata Nexon XE Variant for 8.61 lakhs on road and spend the amount you save on rear camera, touchscreen and accessories required.

Absolutely. The Nexon has more powerful engine than the Sonet 1.2 and Brezza 1.5 however, the maruti 1.5 and Kia 1.2 are super refined than the Nexon's 1.2 turbo. Considering the OTR of XE and the available safety features, I am putting it higher on my list. I can certainly get the other accessories installed from the aftermarket. Thank you.

Originally Posted by AZT

Is there any reason you are not looking at Renault Kiger and Nissan Magnite. Renault should have a service centre in all major locations. I just checked and the S cross base variant should Also come at ~ 10 l OTR so maybe you can check that out as well if it has all the features you’re looking for.

There are couple of reasons that I did not consider both the Kiger and Magnite. first, the 1 L NA engine is not antiquate for my usage and the turbo one in not value for money. Second, their ASS is an unexplored territory for me. You can understand my plight when I have doubt on Tata ASS in my area being an existing Tata car owner, its not easy to trust the Renault and Nissan for the very same reason. I would have gone for the S-cross eyes closed but the base variant is more than 1 L from the budget i have decided.
Thank you for your valuable suggestion.
I have decided to checkout all these three + the XUV300 in next weekend. I will keep you updated.

[jesse_916]

Hello all you wonderful people. I request your valuable advice and guidance to help me decide between these two vehicles and even possibly add to my confusion by suggesting something else as well.

Background:
So we started looking for a car a few months back and after going through a lot of info on various forums, we decided on the VW Polo 1.0L TSI Manual Petrol but because it has been discontinued, that meant a search in the used car market had to be undertaken which I did. It was eye-opening for sure. The Polo was a delight to drive but in all these months I only came across a few cars that fit the bill. Two of them turned out to be “Total Loss” cars (a term which I had not heard of before but a term which every used car buyer needs to be aware of while the two others slipped away before I could even blink. We started looking at Automatics as well as I thought it would be more convenient for my wife as well but then the budget started getting extended and we were looking at 9L for the Auto. Now, we realised that for 10L odd, we could get a brand new Nexon or XUV 300 and the EMI would be equivalent to that of a used car due to the higher interest rates on used cars. So finally, my wife herself said that she would rather we have a bigger car for spending the same amount which made sense to me as well. The Polo, even with its classic design, is not really fresh aesthetically speaking.

Dated (though still very good) looks was also why I rejected the Ecosport though of course the prime reason was that Ford has left India and so wasn’t sure of the resale value a few years down the line when the ASC’es start shutting down. The gearbox and clutch of the Ecosport was also nowhere as slick as the ones on the Nexon and XUV.

And finally there were two – the Tata Nexon XM & the XUV 300 W4.

So here’s my criteria:

• Budget: Around 10L

• Safety: 5 Star NCAP rating at least (oh that’s the max. anyway )

• Good, fun to drive vehicle with decent mileage (I drive very smoothly and my highway speeds are 80 kmph for the most part as I think there are too many variables on our roads to warrant safe higher speeds)

• Petrol (I don’t like Diesels for their pollution, roughness, lack of initial grunt, hard clutch, BS6 DPF clogging issues in that order).

• Did I mention it should be Fun to Drive?

• Good braking performance. This is extremely imp. Had an Elantra Diesel many years back and it would take its time slowing down and personally speaking, a car with good brakes really helps you to enjoy the driving experience with more confidence and peace of mind.

• Ideally no rattles and chu-chu noises. These are hard to identify precisely and even harder to eliminate. A good solid build (dunno if that’s expecting too much from Tata and Mahindra).

So I have test driven both vehicles briefly and here are my initial impressions:

Tata Nexon XM Petrol:

Things which I liked:

• Reasonably good, fun-to-drive motor though the one I drove on Zoomcar was making quite a racket (which I have heard other users complaining about as well) inspite of it being a petrol. In fact I looked up the RC just to be sure it wasn’t a Diesel. Possibly it was not well maintained. Actually defeated the whole purpose of taking a Zoomcar as the idea was to help me decide.

• Very good ride even on broken, village roads with no worry of the underside hitting at all! I could do 20 kmph on these roads where if I was in a sedan, I don’t think In would have had the heart or the stomach to go above 10! And mind you, this on suspension which I don’t think was that well maintained going by the kat-kat noises the thing was making on even a minor bump.

• Incredible amount of features in the XM variant for 10.2L which are not there in the XUV300 such as the 3 Driving modes of Economy, City and Sports, Brake Assist, ESP, TCS, Hill Hold, Central Locking with Remote, Electrically Retractable Mirrors, Turn Indicators on ORVM’s, Puncture Repair Kit, In-Dash Music system with 4 speakers.

• Fuel Efficiency is supposed to be pretty good as per the reviews of other users. With my kind of driving I think I should be able to get decent figures of say 12-14 km/l in Mumbai City and 17-20 km/l on the Highway. Current owners may chime in whether this is realistic or not. The Zoomcar was shit so I could get only 12 odd in a mix of Highway and Rural roads.

• The horn placement (you don’t need to lift your hand; the finger will do). It’s a minor point but very convenient.

Things which I did not like:

• Body roll – the Nexon didn’t seem very confidence inspiring in the corners and for the first time in my life I experienced “real” body roll. Bear in mind I have driven Sedans almost exclusively with the occasional friend’s Creta. And I wasn’t even pushing it hard. I had driven the Ecosport for a thousand kms and that thing would just not budge. It was as if it was on rails even when it was pouring cats and dogs. Unfair comparison maybe.

• The looks are decent but could have been better. The colours are not the most impressive personally either.

• The Digital Instrument cluster. Gimme a conventional 2 needle RPM and Speedometer any day and esp the XUV’s looks so much better.

• Did not always slot into Reverse the first time around.

Things which I am apprehensive about:

• Have seen many images (and jokes) of Nexons toppling over. Is this car more prone to doing this or is this issue blown out of proportion? Since safety is one of my main criteria, it wouldn’t really serve my purpose to be in a safe car that has a penchant for having its wheels face skywards.

• Tata’s quality issues and After Sales. Even before Sales, I cant say their service has been that great. One service center said they don’t have a Manual for a Test Drive and they will take a long time to arrange it! I felt like I was in the 80’s. Most others are also saying they don’t have a Manual. One finally arranged for it only to tell me that “sir, fuel kam hai to jyada door nahi ja payenge”! Wth!

XUV 300 W4 Petrol:

Things which I liked:

• Amazingly smooth and fast to drive.

• Smooth and slick-shifting gearbox and clutch which rivalled the Polo imho.

• Ultra-light steering which is great for city traffic.

• Absolutely stellar brakes. The first few times I was positively jolted from whatever thoughts I was having at that time.

• I feel it looks better than the Nexon esp. from the front.

• Unlike the Nexon, I instantly fell in love with how the car drove.

Things which I did not like:

• Poor fuel efficiency. I think it will not give more than 10-12 km/l in City and about 15-17 on the Highway.

• Lack of many, many features compared to the Nexon.

• Expensive considering this lack.

• Lack of a dead pedal and to make matters worse, even lack of space to put your left foot somewhere/anywhere. How in the world can a manufacturer not think of a dead pedal?! It just blows my mind.

• Lack of boot space but not from a luggage perspective. From a safety perspective, I would have preferred a bigger boot (to protect the rear seat passengers in case of a rear-end shunt.)

Points where I need some advice from all the distinguished and much-more-informed people of this forum:

• What kind of real-world fuel efficiency figures can one expect from both these vehicles with my driving style (light right foot with smooth acceleration and deceleration and highway speeds of 80 kmph)?

• Which of the two cars have better build quality in terms of rattles and noises and quality issues?

• Which of the two (Tata & Mahindra) has better After Sales Service?

• Which of the two cars has better resale value? I ask this as the XUV300 obviously has much lower sales numbers plus I’m buying a Manual when the whole world and his uncle go for Automatics.

• In terms of driving dynamics, which is the better of the two?

• I don’t have a daily city commute as such (being a Full-time Stock Market Trader & Fund Manager, I haver the liberty to work from home). My main drives will be in fact on the highway for road trips and weekend getaways.

• Lastly, do you think buying a used version of either of these 2 is advisable considering that I am not really seeing major depreciation in 1-2 year old, less than 15,000 km run vehicles. I’m guessing this has to do more with the 2 month waiting periods on new cars than anything else.

Please feel free to add any other points which you may think would be useful in taking a decision. Many thanks to all in advance for giving their valuable time.