[suzuki san]

Originally Posted by Aaditto

It will be used by my family of two adults and a 7-year old

Hi Aaditto,

When one purchases a house/apartment, the cardinal rule is "Location, Location, Location"!! I am sure you have heard this many times.

My version : When one purchases a car, the cardinal rule should be "After Sales Service, After Sales Service, After Sales Service"!

I just had a minor hiccup with my Honda BR-V (CEL glowing) when I was in Goa. I called the ASS and was shocked to hear that they do NOT have any On-Road Service so to speak of and I would have to tow the car (a CVT transmission) to their workshop in South Goa - approx 50 Kms away. Although I lived fairly close to their secondary Service Station in North Goa, they were not willing to help in any way. I finally diagnosed the problem myself using an OBD reader and went to the service station and picked up a mechanic after working hours to come and fix the problem. Luckily the issue was really minor and he sorted it out after which I had to drop him back to the ASS. They would not even let the mechanic take the Company diagnostic laptop out of the service station.

This was just an example to show you how important it is to have an ASS nearby - and preferably one which would respond in an emergency.

I would suggest you stick with Maruti for the above reason - provided of course that they have an ON Road service nearby - in case your mecahnic friend cannot fix the issue.

Another often mentioned point to ponder is this : "If the car you buy, does not make you turn around to look at it as you walk away, you have bought the wrong car".

You seem to really be in love with the SCross. I agree with you. It's a great car and you will soon get to work around that engine lag you are talking about from 60 to 80 kmph. Just go ahead and buy it!

I also prefer the current version compared to the next version. In fact, I just convinced a 65 year old friend of mine to buy one as it's going to be his last car... It's an Automatic and he absolutely loves it compared to the I20 he had before.

On the other hand, if you want to save a few lakhs, go for the WagonR 1.2L (only) ZXi (O). Fit the 14 inch alloy wheels from the Ignis on it to get a bit more ground clearance. I have been driving WagonR's (3) from 2002 and it really is your classic "Fill it and Forget It" car - as long as you do the planned maintenance as per schedule. It fits most of the criteria you have mentioned - apart from the sturdy body.
Do a proper anti rust treatment before taking delivery and you should be good to go for at least 10 years.


Let us know your final decision.

Cheers,
SS

[RS01]

My 2 cents:
As you've been driving for decades, I would suggest you stick to a Maruti (S Cross).

Reason: Reflexes!

In a Maruti, controls, switches and knobs would remain on the same side. It gets pretty frustrating at times when one switches on wipers instead of indicators on some cars just because the stick is on the other side.

Also, just a suggestion, please be mindful of the brakes' response when you switch driving from your older vehicles to the new one and back, as they may behave differently and stopping distances will vary greatly in different conditions (again reflexes may force one to brake harder than required in urgent situations).

[shancz]

We're back to what car but not really square one. We already have a few contenders and a favourite.

Originally Posted by Aaditto

since I am 'downgrading' my thinking from the S-Cross heartache

Is a downgrade necessary ?
That's a question only you can answer but going by what your stated objective was in the OP I don't think so.
In case you've forgotten these are your words

So, that is how I have arrived at this point – where I have decided to ‘pamper’ myself, for once – and start owning a car – and a ‘proper’ one at that!

Should you downgrade ? Well I think you shouldn't with the history you have and again in your words :

So basically, in my 32-years of driving, I have only been with very old Maruti vehicles. And I have never owned a car myself

You deserve a car which brings a smile to your face, you have earned it, IMHO.

Originally Posted by Aaditto

How about TD'ing the Renault Kwid 1.0?

You can TD whatever you want but in that case why not the Celerio, Swift, Altroz, new Baleno, i20, i10,Tiago etc.

If you're looking at the Kwid, which I haven't driven but from what I've read is a bit rough on the edges like the engine, interior quality etc.
If you're going in that direction then try the Celerio with the K10 too. It should be much more refined.
Or the Tiago which is more stable and comfortable.
Or the i10 which feels better than the rest in cabin and quality.
See where this is going

Without digressing further I suggest to decide on the first point of the post, your objective. Only then you'll have concrete requirements and hard limits to come to a shortlist.

Thanks.

[RijuC]

Originally Posted by Aaditto

How about TD'ing the Renault Kwid 1.0?!

Don't waste your precious time reviewing what is not a target. The strained engine sound of Kwid keeps me away. And, personally, whenever I sat inside these small cars of Nissan, Renault etc. I could sense there is some metallic structure below my bums. Yes, I am on heavier side (~93 kg). But, the small Maruti cars' seats do not feel like that.

Hence, plushness factor in Kwid- almost nil for me.

By the way, yesterday I could see two new cars in our society- one white Petrol Nexon and one blue S-cross.

In my opinion a practical approach could be:

1. Keep target Car brand as MSIL-->M&M-->TaMo considering after sell service availability.

2. To take a TD of the new Baleno. Build quality is expected to be better than current model. TD may be available from mid-March.

3. You may like it and pick it up if the new Baleno feels good in rough terrains in your regular commute routes. This 1.2 lit. NA engine and MT combination (of my 2016 swift) didn't give me any trouble so far. However I remain worried about the suspension due to my local no tarmac road section of 6 km last mile connectivity from highway.

There were tricky situations in highways, and I take it down to 4th gear, complete it and again move on peacefully. However, I am not an aggressive driver, and have much lesser km and years of driving experience than you.

4.If new Baleno is not that good, or not suitable for your requirements the Baleno TD at least would give an indication what to expect from the new generation/ updated S-cross in near future. And whether a prospective S-cross buyer (a conservative buyer with less demand for features) should wait for the new model or the existing model would suffice.

Regarding the last (planned) car purchase aspect: I'll also be in the same position like you in 3-5 years of time. Formal retirement time will be within 10 years, and being a conservative middle class middle aged person I won't be looking for buying big budget cars. But, as we all know, our minds do not age. I still dream to have a winter Spiti drive, some cross country drives, regular hill drives etc. even though I am in the wrong side of 40s. Actually mid-40!! My requirements are too many- good rugged suspension and sturdy build, good to drive, safe and with maximum possible safety kits/ features, spacious for two large sized occupants (me n wife), easy to maintain, low on fuel bill, silent cabin ( the noisy and squeaky cabin of the Swift), good lighting set-up, and Automatic Transmission. Yes, my next purchase must be AT due to knee problem. For extra features I need good AC, a navigation screen, good sounding speakers (I don't need a home theatre inside my car, already have a good one at home), ORVM folding and adjusting switches. Rear defogger and rear wiper are must for my driving pattern/ journeys.

And the fact is, none of the cars have all these within my budget. So, I need to perhaps compromise on few things. And it definitely takes time to determine which set of compromises would serve me the best since it would be the last planned purchase. If at all I have to buy another one after 65 years of age, it would be like an alto where I can just fit in with my wife and it's easy on pocket.

As a power sector professional, and after working in almost all types of thermal power technologies, I would really be interested in EV for my next car purchase. However, the technologies are still not matured, neither we have any considerable infrastructure for EV available in our country. Hence I am not thinking EV right at this moment.

Summary: Take your time to choose the combination of build, powertrain, features fitting your requirements within your budget and then decide the purchase.

[Aaditto]

Hello, all you amazing people! As always, thanks for all your precious feedback!
Sorry for not responding earlier. I had been travelling, and now, a bit down with a bad tooth.

Originally Posted by knrn

Whoa!! What a thread and what an awesome no of amazing replies that you have got...

You have said it all! I am so completely gratified, as well as reassured, by all these "awesome no of amazing replies"...

Originally Posted by shancz

We're back to what car but not really square one. We already have a few contenders and a favourite.

Is a downgrade necessary ?
That's a question only you can answer but going by what your stated objective was in the OP I don't think so.
In case you've forgotten these are your words

Thank you again, @shancz, for REMINDING me of where and how this hunt began - you are absolutely right!

Originally Posted by shancz

Should you downgrade ? Well I think you shouldn't with the history you have and again in your words :

You deserve a car which brings a smile to your face, you have earned it, IMHO.

Yes, I do!
Somewhere down the line, the 'middle-class' in me was taking over, pushing the 'pampering' bit to the back seat and focusing too much on on saving the moolah! Thank you very much for redirecting me back to the correct course.

I do not need to think of down-grading - what I need to do is, find the best car for myself - within my stated budget of 10L(+/- 20%)!

Originally Posted by shancz

You can TD whatever you want but in that case why not the Celerio, Swift, Altroz, new Baleno, i20, i10,Tiago etc.

If you're looking at the Kwid, which I haven't driven but from what I've read is a bit rough on the edges like the engine, interior quality etc.
If you're going in that direction then try the Celerio with the K10 too. It should be much more refined.
Or the Tiago which is more stable and comfortable.
Or the i10 which feels better than the rest in cabin and quality.
See where this is going

Again, you are spot-on! The Kwid is totally not in any league, whatsoever!
I mentioned it to my mechanic friend, and he gave me a wry smile and said, "So, you want a toy, or a car?!"

In fact, while driving down to Kolkata, a couple of days back, I deliberately spent some time trailing a Kwid, and then a Punch, on the highway.
I let the cars overtake me and then, stayed back about 20-30 mts, from each car, for about 15 mins. Just to see how they fared against my trusted old Maruti 800. The new cars (and their new drivers) of course tried hard to shoot ahead of my 'old jalopy' - and failed, miserably! After I had given them enough chance to 'prove their worth', I shot past each car (shooting up to c. 100-110, from 80-90 kmph that those cars were struggling at) with one clear acceleration - and that was the end of it. I could not find them in my rear view mirror ever again.
Trailing these two cars convinced me that all they really had was good looks - the rest was all flat and insipid!

I see your point... if I am looking at the smaller cars, then there are a lot of variety - which I should look at. But, to what avail? They are all flimsy little vehicles - with very little speciality to any of them.

Anyway, just for the heck of it, here's my history with some of the cars you mention...

• K10
  I had done a TD with it, back in 2018-19, when I was trying to find a replacement car for my mother, who was living alone in Kolkata at that point.
  I really liked the car! In the sense that it felt much more responsive, and looked better, compared to the other affordable option - the Alto.
  But then, Maruti went and changed its external look - making it almost identical to the horrendous looking (IMO) Alto 800.
  So, with the best part of the package gone - the sorted looks - the K10 went out of my radar.

• Celerio
  I have driven one, my friends, a few months ago. While the car is much more sorted in terms of looks, compared to the Ignis, a bit of web research convinced me that the price-point is just not justified. The Ignis is a better car, at almost the same cost.

• i10
  I have always been attracted to the looks of the car - especially since the Nios came into play!
  However, I read a TBHP article somewhere, which described it more as a 'utility vehicle' - rather that what it's looks suggested to me - which is a sporty little (not so little in the Nios avatar) hatchback?!
  
  The other thing that has been an off-putting element in the car - which prevented me from exploring it further - is the severely low GC.

• i20
  I have been trying to get a TD. Our local Dealer (in the small-town of Bolpur) has been dragging his feet. Apparently, they don't have a Petrol-MT-NA version available for TD.
  One of my friends have highly recommended that car. He has just bought it a few months back. On the other hand, another friend, who has owned it for 8+ years, told be to stay away from it - apparently, the i20 along with a number of other Hyundais tend to have serious paint peal-off/ body rusting issues?!

• Swift
  Again, I have driven one owned by a friend, a few months ago. It's a great car, no doubt! But...
  (1) - It seems really flimsy, build-wise. Also in kerb weight. I don't really want a light car!
  (2) - I totally hate the front profile (the ubiquitous Maruti headlight!)... though the back view of the recent-most face-lift is much more sorted.

• Altroz & Tiago
  Can't say I am too fond of the looks for the first, the second one looks fine - but I'll give them a TD, following many of your advise here - provide the Dealer is finally able to provide me one. Again, they have been dragging their feet - apparently, they don't have Petrol-MT-NA versions available for TD!

• And finally, the Baleno
  Now that's a serious contender, at the moment. I will come back to it in a bit. Since it requires more focused consideration.

Originally Posted by suzuki san

My version : When one purchases a car, the cardinal rule should be "After Sales Service, After Sales Service, After Sales Service"!

I would suggest you stick with Maruti for the above reason - provided of course that they have an ON Road service nearby - in case your mechanic friend cannot fix the issue.

Another often mentioned point to ponder is this : "If the car you buy, does not make you turn around to look at it as you walk away, you have bought the wrong car".

You seem to really be in love with the SCross. I agree with you. It's a great car and you will soon get to work around that engine lag you are talking about from 60 to 80 kmph. Just go ahead and buy it!
SS

- Completely agreed - good after-sales service is fundamental! It will have to be the central factor, in deciding my dream car - so that it does not soon become a nightmare!

In that context - I think 'pre-sales-service' should/ could also be a valuable marker - in knowing how serious the company/ dealer is about treating prospective clients with seriousness?!

For example:-

• Honda WR-V
  A car I liked quite a bit - after the TD in Kolkata, last month.
  However, ever since I have been trying to get a second TD - in our rural area - and have failed so far! The dealer keeps asking me to take the TD with a Diesel-Automatic - when I am interested in the Petrol-MT. Apparently, that's the only TD vehicle they have!

• Nissan Kicks
  Another car I wanted to explore, since I really liked the designing of it's younger-brother, the Punch (which had no punch to it!) - and again, the dealer keeps asking me to take the TD with a Turbo-MT - when I am interested in the NA-MT. Apparently, that's the only TD vehicle they have!

• Kia Sonnet
  Another car I was quite attracted to, on paper. And again, the dealers, both in Kolkata as well as with the near-by dealer at our village Project, kept asking me to take the TD with a Turbo-AT - when I am interested in the NA-MT. Again, that's the only TD vehicle they have!

On the other hand...

• M&M XUV 300
  Another car I really liked, after the Kolkata TD - and wanted to explore in our rural setting - and again, the dealer did not have a Petrol-MT readily available for TD...
  But in this case, they made one available for me to do the TD successfully, within two days of my asking for it!

That, for me, says a lot about how each brand is treating it's prospective customers - no??!!


- Yes, looks like I will have to stick with Maruti/ Hyundai(?) - since those are the only two companies with local ASC in our region.

With regard to Hyundai - since that is the only other brand available for me to chose from - what do you guys have to say about them, specifically in terms of -

• Build-quality (paint-pealing/ rusting issues)
• Mileage
• Longevity (fittings coming lose in a few years?)

- True, the S-Cross has impressed me the most, so far. Look-wise, I am very happy with that car! I like the 'staid' (BMW-esque) look of the car - unlike most people. The only thing that could have been better, IMO, is the rear profile (the insipid tail lights) - but that's not something I can't live with!
Neither am I too bothered about the mid-range lag - I know, as you pointed out - I'll get used to dealing with that in no time.

However, there are a few other factors about the S-Cross, which I feel need farther exploration - before I can zero-in on that, as the dream car.

I'll come to that further down in this post, separately.

Originally Posted by knrn

I searched for my dream car for 3 years. I ended buying the Scross. You can read my ownership thread here.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-...ay-petrol.html (Crossing into the grays: Maruti S-Cross Zeta granite gray petrol)

Totally loved your ownership thread, @knrn;5262346!
Thanks for sharing your story and your valued opinion.

Originally Posted by knrn

I did extensive test drives of all cars mentioned here. The reason I did not buy the 300 was the boot space. It was the most enjoyable driving car though.

Absolutely! The XUV 300 was a true pleasure to drive - notwithstanding my aversion to Turbos!
In fact, it's still on my Top-3 list...
I don't mind the small boot so much, but there are other issues which I need to come to terms with. Again, I'll take this up later in the post.

Originally Posted by Durango Dude

I came 'this' close to getting an Ignis, looks are indeed polarizing, you either like it or hate it there's no in between...

... It's a great little car from a ultra reliable brand and you can't go wrong with it, looks will grow on you. or consider the more rounded but staid S-Cross: both aren't that great sellers for Maruti so be sure to bargain.

... I suggest the Altroz it's one 'looker' and you can't take your eyes of it...

- I know what you mean @Durango Dude, when you call it a "a great little car" - that's exactly how I felt after my recent TD.

But the question is, is it my dream-car?

I know that looks of a car does tend to grow on you. In fact, I myself have come to like the front-profile of the Ignis, over time, compared to how I felt the first time I saw it. The rear profile, and the weird C-pillar is a different story - I still can't manage to wrap my head around those!

However, I do't want to buy a car just because it is 'good enough' - since this is probably the first and last car I'll buy!

It needs to be a car that wows me!
And the Ignis is not that car.


- You say, "both aren't that great sellers for Maruti so be sure to bargain" - and a number of my friends have also been telling me the same. But whenever I have brought up the issue of 'offers/ discounts', with any of the dealers - they seem to respond rather insipidly!

Wonder HOW one does such bargaining - for a new car!?
Any pointers, anyone?


- I disagree with you on the looks of the Alstros - in fact, I quite dislike it. Especially the rear view!
However, I do like everything else about it - on paper. And yes, I do plan to do a TD, when and if the dealer obliges!

Originally Posted by RijuC

Hence, plushness factor in Kwid- almost nil for me.

1. Keep target Car brand as MSIL-->M&M-->TaMo considering after sell service availability.

2. To take a TD of the new Baleno. Build quality is expected to be better than current model. TD may be available from mid-March.

3. You may like it and pick it up if the new Baleno feels good in rough terrains in your regular commute routes. This 1.2 lit. NA engine and MT combination (of my 2016 swift) didn't give me any trouble so far. However I remain worried about the suspension due to my local no tarmac road section of 6 km last mile connectivity from highway...

4.If new Baleno is not that good, or not suitable for your requirements the Baleno TD at least would give an indication what to expect from the new generation/ updated S-cross in near future. And whether a prospective S-cross buyer (a conservative buyer with less demand for features) should wait for the new model or the existing model would suffice.

-Totally agreed about the Kwid - it's definitely out of any contention! I am biting my tongue for ever having brought it into this discourse, in the first place!

1. Actually, target brands, with locally available ASC's, will need to be MSIL & Hyundai - since no other brand actually has an ASC nearer than 50 kms.
   The only other brand - given their pre-sales-service performance described above - could be M&M. Also, I hear that they might be coming up with a local ASC in our region soon.
   
   
2. Yes, the Baleno is definitely a car I should look at.
   However, when you say, "Build quality is expected to be better" - you are refering to the 'heavier sheet metal' that is being talked about, right?!
   What I can't wrap my head around is its Zero-Star Rating - in spite of being in the Heartect platform?! Isn't that supposed to mean that the car's frame is more sturdy, compared to the ones in the Global-C platform? Or am I missing something there?
   
   The other worrying point about the Baleno is a feedback I got from the chauffeur of a friend, who recently bought the car. According to this seasoned gentleman, who has been driving all sorts of vehicles for as many years as I have, the front bumper of the car is set too low. As a result, it keeps fouling every tide the car has to negotiate the super-high 'local' speed-breakers, which abound in our roads! I have come across similar complaints on online forums too - if I am not mistaken, on a T-BHP post as well.
   
   That is a serious point of concern - even more than the 170 mm GC, which could otherwise have been tolerable. I wonder if the new face-lift is going to deal with this in any way?!
   
   I did drive this friend's Baleno myself - for a quick evening spin over our local highway-connector. And the car seemed pretty nice otherwise!
   
3. Yes, I am hoping the nearby Nexa Dealer will oblige me with a TD for Baleno, once I return to our Project. Though when I asked the same of a Kolkata Nexa dealer yesterday, the RM told me that it would take at least "2-3 months" for a test drive vehicle to be available, after the face-lift!?
   
   Also, hoping against hopes that the rumour about the new face-lift also coming with an option for the 1.5 lt. NA engine, might just be true - that would be quite an interesting proposition.
   Equally, the other rumour about the 48V SHVS system - instead of the 12V... Too good to be true?!
   
4. That's a very sound point indeed - trying out the new Baleno could give me a better idea about what to expect in the new S-Cross - especially if the 48V SHVS system rumour turns out to be true! That's the only feature in the new S-Cross which had tweaked my interest...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, to round off my response to all your valuable suggestions here...

I think I have the following details already nailed-down, thanks to the clarity offered by all of you here:-

• Brands to stick with

1. Maruti
2. Hyundai
3. Mahindra

• Cars to look at seriously -

1. S-Cross
2. Baleno
3. XUV 300
4. Brezza
5. Creta

• Other cars to consider -

1. Venue
2. i20
3. Altroz
4. Tiago
5. Swift
6. i10

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will follow up further, in a separate post, detailing some of my points of attraction/ worry, regarding these short-listed cars.

It would be great to hear what all of you have to say to that...

[Aaditto]

Here's a more detailed update about some of the short-listed cars I mentioned above - delineating some of their pros and cons, by my books:-

1. S-Cross

   Pros:

   • Looks - I am totally in love with the 'crossover' look and feel of this car! The 'staid' getup (with a tinge of the BMW), which most people do not like, is exactly what appeals to me! And as @suzuki san puts it, very aptly,
     

     "If the car you buy, does not make you turn around to look at it as you walk away, you have bought the wrong car"

     Well, the S-Cross is certainly a car that I would love to look at, on a daily basis!
     
     
   • Suspension - My TD with this car was the first one I did, back in our rural terrain. And the first thing that struck me was how butter-smooth the suspension was, even over the worst potholes on my 'test track'! And it was just as efficient on the higway-connector - at 80-100 kmph!
     If fact, the performance of this suspension, on the dirt trail, has been way superior to all the other cars I TD'ed on that same track (XUV300, Nexon, Brezza, Punch, Ignis)
     
     
   • Grounded feel - The more it accelerated on the highway, the more grounded it felt. The high speed ride quality was, indeed, stately!
     
     
   • Progressive power-train - Barring the jarring mid-range lag, the power-train was progressing and smooth as silk. That's something I enjoy in a car.
     
     
   • Airy interiors - Not only is the second-row massive, in terms if knee room, the whole interior has a really spacious feel to it. The addition of the quarter-glasses - including an extra set on the sides of the parcel tray, the nicely planned A-pillars, the slanting windscreen, along with the large size of the interior, gives the car a really airy feel - in spite of the dark interiors. I really enjoyed that feel, from the drivers seat, coming from a Maruti 800 background!
     
     
   • Largish, but more importantly, very well designed boot

   Cons:

   • Reports about the superb suspension failing drastically in a few years - I have been reading the T-BHP thread that is dedicated to specifically this particular issue of the S-Cross. And I have to say, that is a SERIOUS downer, when considering the car! Especially since that (the buttery suspension) is what has been attracting me the most, amongst all the other features of the car.
     
     
   • The mid-range lag taking away a bit of the punch from the otherwise-brilliant power-train - it sort of puts a blemish into the otherwise-smooth and remarkably progressive power-train of the car.
     
     
   • Not the best self-centring to be had from the otherwise well-weighted steering - well, isn't that true for all the MSIL vehicles!?
     
     
   • The extra 'plushness' (as well as some of the added features, such as the 48V SHVS system) that seems to be up-coming, in the new face-lift around the corner - puts me in a bit of a two mind about going ahead with the present model (whose looks are far superior, by my books!)
     
     
   • The exorbitantly high premium between the Zeta & Alpha trims - but one which fetches two important features - LED headlamps & auto-dimming IRVM
     
     
   • Rather off-putting NVH levels, especially in the lag-prone mid-range. But probably improvable with a tire upgrade?

2. Baleno

   Pros:

   • Looks - I had already been fond of the Baleno's looks, in it's outgoing avatar - my only grouse was with the funny half-circle of 'dotted-lights' in the tail-console. Now this face-lifted Baleno, as I saw today on the Nexa website 360° view - I think the look is completely sorted, all around!
     
     It is definitely the first well-designed getup from MISL, by my books! I have no real complains, about any of it's profiles - look-wise.
     
     
   • Smooth handling and a progressive-enough power-train - if my memory isn't failing me, from my recent spin in my friend's Baleno, I remember the drive to be quite pleasurable. But I need a TD with the face-lifter version, for sure!
     
     
   • Seemingly sorted - and very 'plush' - interiors. I felt it to be pretty nice in my friend's outgoing model itself - and the interior 360° view of the present avatar seemed even more well-built!
     
     
   • Perfect size - the dimensions are just right - Especially the width; not too narrow to be cramped inside, but at the same time, not too wide to be a bother on congested city roads.
     
     
   • Availability of 6-airbags, from the Zeta (Delta?) variant itself

   Cons:

   • Not really a heavy car - I would have preferred if the kerb weight crossed/ touched the 4-digit mark
     
     
   • The GNCAP "Zero-Star Rating" of the outgoing version is a serious point to consider
     
     
   • The issue with the too-low lip of the front-bumper - at least till the outgoing model - is equally worrisome
     
     
   • Similarly, the 170 mm GC - as opposed to the S-Crosses 180 - is that 'slight' lack actually going to make a big difference??!!
     
     
   • With a brand new version being launched - is the waiting time/ bargain possibilities going to be adversely affected?

3. XUV 300

   Pros:

   • Superb drive quality! In spite of the Turbo engine, which I am not a fan of, the power-train was stupendous - best out of all the cars I drove recently!
     
     
   • The Turbo-lag is minimal - amongst all the other turbo engines I have driven recently.
     
     
   • Feature rich and quite plush interiors
     
     
   • One of the better suspensions - after the S-Cross
     
     
   • GNCAP 5 star rating
     
     
   • Seriously solid build - the bonnet is just too damned heavy to be worked with one hand!

   Cons:

   • The Turbo-engine - I am not a 100% certain, but to the best of my understanding, turbo boost will invariably complicate the engine mechanism?! And that, to my mind, is a recipe for disaster/ maintenance worries, in the long run... no?
     
     Also, given our extremely hot-humid summer conditions, turbo is bound to malfunction/ dip in performance during the summer months?!
     
     
   • The light interiors - given our rural surroundings, I thought the light coloured theme was asking for mud-stains, dust trails and what not!
     
     
   • The boot space - tiny as it is, which I could still manage with the 60:40 folding seats, the space itself is ill-conceived, with oddly slanting sides.
     
     
   • The super 'boxy' feel of the car - especially from the driver's seat - something that seriously puts me off about Indian SUV's! This car felt the most 'boxy' to me, amongst all the other competitors.

4. Brezza

   Pros:

   • Pretty rounded vehicle - a jack of all trades
     
     
   • Quite well thought out proportions - the dimensions are just right.
     
     
   • The interior, even though highly criticised, seemed quite acceptable to me, by Maruti standards!
     
     
   • A smooth-enough power-train - and marginally lower NVH levels, compared to the S-Cross, which shares the same engine

   Cons:

   • Not nearly as smooth a suspension as the S-Cross - in fact the ride is pretty bumpy on bad roads
     
     
   • Not at all well-grounded at high speeds - in fact, it feels quite skittish on the highway!
     
     
   • Very mediocre steering - not at all confidence building
     
     
   • Quite 'boxy' in appearance - though more tolerable compared to a few other competitors
     
     
   • Nothing 'special' about the car - just a decent 'utility vehicle'

5. Creta - I haven't done a TD yet - so, everything is based on specs on-paper

   Pros:

   • Looks - I find the rather-futuristic design quite appealing! Unlike many of its competitors, it has a distinct style to it.
     
     
   • Size perception - even though it is a rather large vehicle, it does not seem so, from the outside.
     
     
   • Apparently, it is one of the more 'grounded' of all the Hyundais - with a good road-grip at high speeds
     
     
   • Impressive "17-21 km/l combined" mileage
     
     
   • The "1.5 l MPi, 6 Speed Manual, Petrol" - sounds like an impressive package - linear and progressive, which is to my liking [as described nicely by BHP-ian rahul_goyal here (Ownership Review - My Kia Seltos HTK+ 1.5L Petrol 6MT)]
     
     
   • It has been described, by a number of experts, as one of the most reliable vehicles from Hyundai
     
     

   Cons:

   • Only the "E" variant (at most the "EV", with a stretch) is within my budget - and those come with MANY vital and practical features MISSING
     
     
   • Suspension on the firmer side - doesn't bode well for travel over broken village roads
     
     
   • Many online sources report paint/ body quality issues
     

Some of the other cars to consider - a few points, good and bad, that are working at the back of my mind ~

1. Venue

   • One of my early 'likes', amongst the CSUV's - look-wise. But After the TD, the liking reduced to some extant - especially due to the unnecessary bulge of the front mudguards
     
   • Though the ride quality, power-train, transmission etc were pretty impressive - I found the suspension to be a little to stiff for my liking
     
   • The feel on the highway was a little too light for my liking too.
     
   • Worried about it's long term reliability - in terms of build-quality/ paint/ body etc
     
   • Features were impressive!
     
   • Not a car that I could say I disliked - but still, something felt not good enough

2. i20

   • Seriously worried about reports regarding bad paint quality/ rusting issues
     
   • Low mileage is not desirable
     
   • Seems like a rather 'plush' hatchback - and therefore, enticing to an extant!

3. Swift

   • The light weight is worrisome
     
   • Hate the front view - the ubiquitous Maruti headlap! Even after the much-improved latest face-lift, the car just doesn't look right!
     
   • Have been hearing a lot of people say that the earlier version was a better car - that the present one is flimsier?!

4. i10

   • Have always liked the way it looks - the Grand Nios looks even more attractive - and, it is more generous in its dimensions, to boot!
     
   • Has always been a car that has attracted my attention on the road
     
   • One of my primary worries with it has been the low GC - is 165 mm really bad, or can it be functional over bad roads?
     
   • Report on T-BHP about the car being more of a 'good utility city vehicle' - as opposed to what I thought it looked to be - a 'smart and compact sports-hatchback' (something like the now-discontinued Brio) - seems to be a serious deterrent for me to explore it further

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, these are some of my feelings, regarding the short-listed cars - and the ones on the fringes...

I would be very grateful for all of you to chip-in with your views about these cars. Please do tell me if you think I am reading something wrong, about any of the cars.

Also, please give me your generous feedback on the newly launched version of the Baleno - since that is the second-most appealing car on my list at the moment - and it is going head-to-head with the S-Cross, thanks to some of the upgraded features!

Thanks again, as always - all your views/ inputs are really a Godsend, for someone like me - who believes he is in his 30's, while in reality, has crossed that black-magic figure of 50!

[graaja]

Originally Posted by Aaditto

In fact, while driving down to Kolkata, a couple of days back, I deliberately spent some time trailing a Kwid, and then a Punch, on the highway.
I let the cars overtake me and then, stayed back about 20-30 mts, from each car, for about 15 mins. Just to see how they fared against my trusted old Maruti 800. The new cars (and their new drivers) of course tried hard to shoot ahead of my 'old jalopy' - and failed, miserably! After I had given them enough chance to 'prove their worth', I shot past each car (shooting up to c. 100-110, from 80-90 kmph that those cars were struggling at) with one clear acceleration - and that was the end of it. I could not find them in my rear view mirror ever again.

Did the drivers of the Kwid and Punch know that they were being tested? What if they were just going at their preferred speed? What if they were not interested in taking your test? By this logic, you could do the same to any other car - even a BMW or Merc cruising at 80, and that would not make those cars any less powerful.

I am not saying Kwid or Punch is a powerful car. Just that your way of judging these cars is wrong. If you really want to judge a car, take a TD and see how the car feels and drives and then decide.

Wishing you all the best with your car selection. Looking forward to your ownership thread.

[Aaditto]

Originally Posted by graaja

Did the drivers of the Kwid and Punch know that they were being tested? What if they were just going at their preferred speed? What if they were not interested in taking your test? By this logic, you could do the same to any other car - even a BMW or Merc cruising at 80, and that would not make those cars any less powerful.

I am not saying Kwid or Punch is a powerful car. Just that your way of judging these cars is wrong. If you really want to judge a car, take a TD and see how the car feels and drives and then decide.

Wishing you all the best with your car selection. Looking forward to your ownership thread.

Thank you @graaja!

Yes, of course - you are quite justified in your thinking.
However, if I describe the 'test' in further detail, you might see my point better...

By the way, I have done an extensive TD with the Punch - and hated it's power-train - while I loved it's design (as mentioned in an earlier post).

Usually, when driving down to Kolkata via AH1, I am cruising between 90-100 kmph, on my really-old Maruti car. And, as would be expected, every other car wants/ needs to shoot past me - since they are mostly brand new/ not-as-old-as-mine vehicles. It's a matter of ego, more often than not. And I am fine with that! I always let every car that comes charging behind me pass at the first available occasion.

However, the traffic on the expressway (at least in West Bengal), with its umpteen number of over-loaded and sluggish trucks as well as the frequent insurgence from congested road-side towns, is such that the optimum speed is really around that 100 kmph mark.

(Of course there are some turbo-charged super-cars, and their turbo-charges drivers, dashing through that same traffic between 120-180 kmph! But even they can't keep up such speeds in the long run, thanks to the truck-traffic. And, if you ask me, that's just horrendous and wasteful driving!)

So, even though almost every car wants to go past my old little Maruti, after they have done that - and their ego is satisfied - they don't really zip past ahead of me, as such. They just keep going at/ around that 100-mark, within 10-20 mts ahead of me. I have trailed Cretas/ Jeeps/ et al - for miles on end - maintaining that 10-20 mts gap.

But then, if I would try to 'race' such a Creta, which has just overtaking me and is cruising just ahead - that would be disastrous, correct? Of course there would be enough power left in the car for the driver's ego to successfully take on my challenge!

That's exactly the point I was trying to make, through the earlier description of my 'tests' with the Kwid and the Punch.

Both these cars came charging up behind me - was super-eager to overtake me, of course - and then, once they were ahead, they kept happily cruising between 90-100 kmph.
So, to answer a part of your question, it was actually the other cars that were racing me, in the first place.

Usually, I would tail such a vehicle that has just overtaken me (unnecessarily!) at just the 'safe distance' between 5-10 mts. And I would go on like that. But in the case of the Kwid and the Punch, I deliberately dropped back further. Then, I kept creeping back up behind them, and then falling back again - primarily to tease their egos. This is a trick that works more often than not - since the driver at the wheel is frequently an inexperienced one. So, they end up over-accelerating, and thereby, cross the threshold of their vehicle's power-train.

That is exactly what the Kwid as well as the Punch driver did. And so, when I did charge up to them, finally, and overtook each car, around 100-120 - they just did not have any power left to catch up with me!

Of course both these cars are 'better equipped' on paper - with much higher figures for power & torque, compared to my Maruti 800! But that does not invariably translate to a better power-train/ more responsive engine. My car, while cruising at 90, needs just the slightest of nudge to shoot up to 100, and then just a little more coaxing to hit 120 kmph, and it does that in a couple of seconds. Neither of the other two cars displayed that kind of agility, during my 'test'. However, to be fare to the vehicles, the drivers behind the wheels would be a factor that remains unqualified in my 'tests'. But still, these were brand new cars, for God's sake!?

Does that make somewhat more sense?

[graaja]

I am not an expert on egos. So can’t comment on that. As long as you have test driven the cars and based your judgement on your own experience, it’s good

[RijuC]

Aaditto-Sir, do you mean this one generation earlier Swift? This Tuesday I took this photograph to understand how my Swift looks against the Ignis.

Well, I prefer my Swift. Also, I don't like the latest generation Swift due to it's extremely light feel of body structure and flexing everything. My car went upto EL+ 3730 meter in Himalayas, didn't give me any trouble. Anyway the interior cries louder than the music system on no tarmac near my society, just like a "chhyakra gari".

And every new car or newer generation car from Maruti Suzuki used to get uglier in my opinion, except S-cross. Latest S-cross look is better than earlier one.

This new Baleno 2022 looks promising. The Engine is dualjet type. You can follow the new Baleno 2022 thread for every details. However, you must take a thorough TD to understand whether the structure is really better than before. I bought the older gen. swift and not the earlier Baleno hatchback just because of the filmy build quality of the later.

For the Hybrid/ Mild hybrid system, it was cautioned by Seniors that battery replacement after 5-6 years of running is a costly affair. Current GST on battery is 28%.

However, since you are talking 100-120 kmph on highways, please check the thread on S-cross accident hitting buffalo!

[Aaditto]

Originally Posted by RijuC

Aaditto-Sir, do you mean this one generation earlier Swift? This Tuesday I took this photograph to understand how my Swift looks against the Ignis.

Well, I prefer my Swift. Also, I don't like the latest generation Swift due to it's extremely light feel of body structure and flexing everything. My car went upto EL+ 3730 meter in Himalayas, didn't give me any trouble. Anyway the interior cries louder than the music system on no tarmac near my society, just like a "chhyakra gari".
…
However, since you are talking 100-120 kmph on highways, please check the thread on S-cross accident hitting buffalo!

Thank you @RijuC!
A number of my friends, who bought the Swift just one generation before the present one, has told me the same - that the earlier version had much better build-quality, and that the present one is really flimsy!

Even though I don't know how, but I can imagine that it would/ could be possible to locate such an older-generation Swift, lying around at some dealer's stock yard. However, would it be a wise thing to do? Should one buy an old-stock vehicle?! Common sense tells me not!

And to top that, as you have said, the interior will start singing like a bee, very soon!

So, I guess the Swift is out of my dream-car list, in spite of being a sprightly car in its own right!? A 'Chakra gari', as you put it, sounds more like a familiar bad-trip, rather than a new experience!

Following your lead, I checked the "S-cross accident hitting buffalo" thread. My Goodness! What an unfortunate and terrible accident. Thank God no one was hurt.

Other than the buffalo, of course. The car was travelling quite fast and the crash happens just when it was about to overtake the TATA Punch(?). So, there was nowhere to go!

However, not to belittle the misfortune in any way, but the way the car handled the hit, was quite impressive. When the hit happened on the dash-cam, I assumed far more damage to the car, compared to what I could see on the still photo further down. A buffalo is very heavy, and rock solid on its feet! To have killed such a fully grown animal as the one in the crash, the impact would have been quite serious.

Also, I thought the panic brake worked beautifully too - with complete linear stability.

But then, it's still a terrible deal for the unfortunate owner, when the car earns brownie points, while the car-maker gives you such a bad trip, for all your precious investment in them!
That's so typically Governmental in nature - this kind of harrowing experience for a bona fide consumer.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Aaditto

- Please do tell me if you think I am reading something wrong, about any of the cars.

- it is going head-to-head with the S-Cross, thanks to some of the upgraded features!

- The best and only way to have a comparison is to take a TD like you've already done for some.
There is no right/wrong but things that you will like/dislike which might be the opposite for others like you've also mentioned.

- Comparing the S-Cross and Baleno also shows a lack of concrete requirements, IMHO.
Let's list out some requirements which will work for you :

Concrete :
- petrol, NA, >1200cc
- GC >180mm
- 5 seater
- length 4.3m or less
- ASC availability within a 50km radius

Tangible :
- well built
- engine refinement and responsiveness is important
- excellent highway dynamics

Features and models will leave at your discretion.
I might be wrong in my assumptions, feel free to modify accordingly and preferably make a list yourself since you know your requirements better than us.

For the new Baleno our dedicated thread/review will be our best source of info but take a TD if it's available.

Good Luck with your hunt and hoping to see a booking soon

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Aaditto

That is exactly what the Kwid as well as the Punch driver did. And so, when I did charge up to them, finally, and overtook each car, around 100-120 - they just did not have any power left to catch up with me!

Of course both these cars are 'better equipped' on paper - with much higher figures for power & torque, compared to my Maruti 800! But that does not invariably translate to a better power-train/ more responsive engine. My car, while cruising at 90, needs just the slightest of nudge to shoot up to 100, and then just a little more coaxing to hit 120 kmph, and it does that in a couple of seconds. Neither of the other two cars displayed that kind of agility, during my 'test'. However, to be fare to the vehicles, the drivers behind the wheels would be a factor that remains unqualified in my 'tests'. But still, these were brand new cars, for God's sake!?

Does that make somewhat more sense?

Makes sense!

Lightness is a virtue in anything that moves - including people, Japanese knows this well. You must have heard the stories of their Mitsubishi Zero aircrafts.

Do you have an M800 5 Speed?

Since you are onto a car hunt, Let us know what you think of the new Baleno after a test drive, K series is the last good NA small petrol engine - which also happens to be fitted to an appropriate car.

[Aaditto]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Makes sense!

Lightness is a virtue in anything that moves - including people, Japanese knows this well. You must have heard the stories of their Mitsubishi Zero aircrafts.

Thanks, @Kosfactor that's reassuring - coming from a senion BHP-ian - I was beginning to feel a bit unsure, about trusting my gut more than figures on paper. But that's how I have always been... gutsy and snobbish, as my friends keep telling me!

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Do you have an M800 5 Speed?

No, I drive an old 4-gear Maruti 800 (second generation) - 1993 registration.

And now that you have asked, I just have to brag a little about my little darling!

The engine is Japanese built - assembled in India. Hasn't been touched yet, in all these 29 years. Not even the head. It gives me 18-20 kmpl on highways - 15-18 kmpl in Kolkata.
The transmission (wheel-end) has been messed up a bit, due to some serious driving over the past few years. Badly needs a change of both the drive-shafts (axle bearings are gone beyond replaceable limits) - which I am not doing since there's no way I can retain the car legally after 2023!
The brake shoes should also be changed - they are still the originals.
And yet, the car's gait is brilliant, right up to 100 kmph - after which, of course, the wear is evident - and my confidence starts dipping, thanks to the old shoes!

Happy as I am, with the prospect of buying a new car (my first) - having to let go of my little darling is breaking my heart! Spending a mere 10-20K on this car now would make it fit for at least another 5-6 years, comfortably...

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Since you are onto a car hunt, Let us know what you think of the new Baleno after a test drive, K series is the last good NA small petrol engine - which also happens to be fitted to an appropriate car.

I am eagerly waiting for any of the Nexa dealers around me to offer a test drive for the new Baleno!
From what I gather, it's probably not going to happen any time soon - the best case could be a couple of weeks, and the worst, a couple of months - before any of these dealers have a TD vehicle available!

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Aaditto

Happy as I am, with the prospect of buying a new car (my first) - having to let go of my little darling is breaking my heart! Spending a mere 10-20K on this car now would make it fit for at least another 5-6 years, comfortably...

Well, someone I know had restored a ~90s M800, his first car from his first job to original spec using all OEM bits. It looks better than the vehicle that came out of the factory, restored to perfection. A nice project he undertook in his retirement.

Me and my partner were given a ~95 M800 for running errands on my first part time job, I used to drive it around the speeds you have mentioned and I remember it being a lot more refined and could effortlessly do highway speeds in comparison to almost diesel like M800 from the 2000s (which I had in Bangalore for a while), by that time the value engineering had removed everything Japanese out of it.

I also survived a crash in that M800, seat belts work, so does crumple zones. A 90`s M800 also happens to be my driving school vehicle on Day 0, I guess I do owe M800 a lot.

If you`ve got the time and money - fully restore it to OE spec, repaint it and it is a perfect conversation starter anywhere you go.