[EvilZombie]

All things considered, Octavia is the right upgrade from the TJet.

Now an unpopular opinion- A reliable and safe family car for long trips carrying 4 adults and a kid in a child seat, maybe a sedan is really not the best fit anymore and time to look at a different built.

Second unpopular option - Sure you can wait for better options in the EV, but I dont know if you will find a good fit in the next 2-3 yrs. And not to mention sticking with the TJet for an extended period is a BIG risk given that you’ve had multiple issues already with it. If it was your daily beater, this could have been manageable, but this is your highway car & risk of putting your family through that ordeal again is enough of a reason to switch

So if I were in your place, I’d take a close look at the 7 seater SUVs - XUV 700, Alcazars and Safaris

Innova is a no fuss people mover and even a pre worshipped one can last you years. Carens if you want to go with the premium and luxurious feel.

Another option could be a pre worshipped Endeavour 3.2 though finding a good one may take some luck.

[sparameswaran]

Update:

The alternator was replaced within 7 days and the car is back with me. Thanks to Hyson Jeep Kottayam (Kerala) for the quick response and excellent service experience.

I made some progress with the new car search and I have some questions and thoughts to share.

One thing I realized is that my requirement of 'drivability' (a well built, planted on the road, agile car) + 'reliability' (minimal issues) + 'space' (spacious enough to accommodate 4 well built adults with a child seat along with boot space for the family luggage) + 'Excellent safety' is asking for the impossible, unless my budget is huge.

Otherwise I have to settle for cars which are 'jack of all trades' but master of none! Which I am not inclined to do.

Whether right or wrong, I have decided that I will not compromise on the drivability / driving pleasure of the car. That is non-negotiable. I guess everyone is allowed at least one indulgence in life!

So Innova Crysta is out, though it fits almost all requirements except the driving part. Electric cars do not have the range (or availability of charging facilities) to allow me to consider them.

I checked out the following cars:
1. Skoda Slavia (1.0TSI MT & 1.5TSI MT)
2. Skoda Octavia
3. Mahindra XUV700
4. Jeep Compass ('S', Diesel AT)

The experience with the showroom staff:
The response from Skoda and Jeep were prompt and very satisfying.
I went to the Skoda showroom in town and was offered test drive of Slavia 1.0TSI manual & DSG as well as of Skoda Octavia immediately. And there was no restriction on distance, including highway and city drive. The showroom in Pondicherry did not have a 1.5TSI for test drive. So they got a car from Chennai within 3 days for me to do test drive. And I drove it over 50kms, over highway, city roads and village roads. I actually drove the 1.0TSI & Octavia twice. The service staff were very knowledgeable about the cars.

The story with Jeep was the same - excellent. Jeep don't have a showroom in Pondicherry. I registered a request for test drive online one night and got a call from VTK motors in Chennai the very next day morning. The person asked me for some details and about my plans for new car. He called me back in the afternoon, saying that he is bringing the car for test drive all the way to Pondicherry (150kms from Chennai) the very next day! And when he came, I was told I can do unlimited test drive on the highway and city roads. He even asked my wife to drive the car. The service engineer was very knowledgeable about the car and appeared very keen to explain the 'unique' features of the Compass.

Kudos to Jeep & Skoda on the customer experience! Keep it up!

The story with Mahindra was completely different, though.
I did not get any response after registering request for test drive online for 48 hours. Then I got a call and was told the local showroom staff will contact me to schedule test drive. Since I did not get a call for next 2 days, I googled their number and called. I was told by the staff that my mobile was not reachable when he called. I requested back to back test drive of Petrol & Diesel XUV700 so that I can compare the two. I was told that the petrol car was sent for service and only the diesel was available. The staff told me "petrol is more powerful than diesel" and "there is no need to check". He also suggested that I do test drive for diesel first and do the petrol at a later date, when the car is available! He also told me that they don't allow test drive 'outside the city', because it is 'risky' to allow test drive on the highway. I told him that I am willing to wait for the petrol model to available so that I can drive both cars back to back. He said he will call me back once both cars are available together. I got a call after a day and I was asked to come to the showroom for the test drive because they couldn't bring both cars. I went to the showroom. Test drive was allowed for about 3kms (one way diesel, return on petrol) inside the city! I politely asked them whether there is any chance of allowing on highway at a later date and I was told they will consult 'higher authorities' and get back to me. It is now more than a week and I haven't heard back from Mahindra. In addition to the lack of proper test drive, the staff who accompanied me on the so called 'test drive' appeared knowledgeable about the 'fancy' features on the car but clueless about many mechanical aspects. Eg: He did not know about 'drive modes' (tried explaining the automatic gear options when I asked about drive modes!! ), but insisted on demonstrating Alexa enabled operations of the sunroof. He did not know about 'auto hold' function of the brake, I demonstrated it to him! I am not sure how Mahindra is expecting me to consider buying the car without allowing me to drive the car properly.

The cars:
Skoda Slavia (1.0TSI & 1.5TSI) are very good cars to drive. I would rate the 1.0TSI at par with my Linea T JET in its driving characteristics. It is as powerful and agile. The 1.5TSI is even better in the driving dept. While the 1.5TSI appears more more powerful and a bit more refined, I felt that the 1.5TSI was not 'dramatically' superior Vs the 1.0TSI. Features being the same, I doubt whether the 1.5TSI is a better buy, unless one is very particular about the DSG.

The Octavia was indeed a revelation and a hoot to drive! It was far better than the T Jet and the Slavia siblings. The sport mode and paddle shifters further juices up the drive. If I choose purely based on driving dynamics, I am sure I will go for the Octavia and nothing else.

The Jeep Compass was also pleasure to drive - well built, planted to the road as if the tyres had glue, well insulated cabin, powerful engine. Reaches good speed on the highway in no time and without us realizing it unless you check the speedo. The only issue was the 'agility' part. Guess it might have been partly from the AT, but quick overtakes in the town and in those two lane roads or the Ghats while driving at relatively low speed is challenging. Except for this, the compass proved to be a pleasure to drive.

From whatever little I managed to drive, it appeared to me that the diesel XUV700 is more 'powerful'/agile than the petrol - but I may be wrong, given the limited (non)test drive i had . The petrol did not have drive modes option, i guess the 'mileage matter' must have been playing in Mahindra's mind (in deleting this from the Petrol version).

The build quality of Octavia and Jeep is in another league altogether, compared to Slavia & XUV. Jeep is rock solid. Like a tank. Octavia also feels the same. Build quality of Slavia and XUV are not as good, though it is not bad in anyway. The build is definitely better than some other cars in the market right now. What I mean is, compared to Slavia & XUV700, Jeep and the Octavia has even better build quality. Even the Linea feels better built than the XUV700 and Slavia.

Among these cars, if I am asked to choose, it will be between the Octavia and Jeep Compass for me. Surprisingly, they are almost in the same price range, with the the Jeep Compass being the more expensive one!

Both the Compass and the Octavia has its flaws too.

My main concern with Octavia are:
1) Ground clearance. It is significantly less than my Linea T Jet (mine is the 2014 face lift with improved ground clearance). Driving on highways and city roads may be fine. But what if i am diverted through village roads or poorly maintained roads while travelling? Has happened not infrequently in the past.
2) The DQ381 DSG is supposedly different from DQ200, but is it immune to the DSG failures reported on this forum? I asked the Skoda dealership here. It opened in 2021 Jan and they are saying they are yet to see a DSG failure here.

The main concerns with the Compass are:
1) Space - cabin itself is smaller than my Linea T Jet (but much more luxurious). Boot is significantly smaller.
2) Agility at low speed - may be from the AT, I guess. However, cruise control is a non-negotiable requirement for me (I use it extensively on TN highways) and cruise control is available only on the ATs in compass! So manual transmission on compass is not an option for me.
3) More expensive than the Octavia when comparing variants with comparable features
4) No service in Pondicherry (I am willing to go to Chennai, though it is inconvenient).

Evidently the strengths of these two cars are different and this is a choice one need to make while choosing between the two, I guess.

I had another question playing on my mind - about the advisability of buying a diesel engine for someone who keeps car for 8 to 10 years. Diesel seems to be going out of production with multiple manufacturers. Will there be takers for a diesel car after another 5 to 10 years? Is there possibility of restrictions on diesel vehicles in Delhi getting extended to other places? At present the resale value of diesel cars are supposed to be better (not the primary concern for me, still asking). Is it likely to remain the same in coming years? I have a feeling that it may change. What are your thoughts on this?

I must admit that the budget (above 30 lakhs) for the T Jet replacement is making me wonder whether I am indeed doing the right thing! Options are limited (if you are very particular about driving dynamics, safety etc.) and whatever available are pricey! Not a good time to be a petrolhead, unless one has deep pockets, I guess.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Edit: By the way, I was offered 2 lakhs for my Linea T Jet if I exchange it!

[sunikkat]

Great you experienced all these cars. If I was in your place my preference would be Octavia and a distant second and third Compass -> Slavia / Virtus 1.5. Honestly all these cars will feel like a proper upgrade to Linea in most of the parameters.

If you are really looking for performance you should consider Octavia as its much better than other options. And its a very practical car with that boot space, interior space etc.

If you need go anywhere ability and diesel economy should look at Compass. However you need to compromise on space. But performance wise Slavia / Virtus 1.5 will still be faster than Compass.

But if you dont want to spend that much money but still looking for fun to drive Slavia / Virtus 1.5 would do. Both of these would still be faster than T-Jet. On a downside you might not feel this as good build as Fiat, but still better than other cars in that segment. But if you are going for Slavia / Virtus suggest look at 1.5 than 1 TSI, as once you reach triple digit speeds you will really find difference in the performance between two. And it would really matter in the highways.

Diesel vs Petrol is always a gamble with new regulations, proposed ethanol mix etc. and with limited information available currently both are equally good or risky.

All the best with your decision, I personally feel T-Jet is definitely due for change. Suggest go with Octavia / Compass based on your preferences and keep it for next 8 to 10 years.

[sparameswaran]

Originally Posted by sunikkat

If you need go anywhere ability and diesel economy should look at Compass.

But if you are going for Slavia / Virtus suggest look at 1.5 than 1 TSI, as once you reach triple digit speeds you will really find difference in the performance between two. And it would really matter in the highways.

I have never gone off roading. Unlikely in the future too. I don't really need the 4x4. Yes, I have been to places with bad roads. But was not really an issue for the T Jet. Concerned it may not be the same with Octavia.

I didn't take the Slavia 1.0TSI to the highway. I intended to test drive only the 1.5TSI, but drove the 1.0TSI as well because the service manager insisted on me checking out that one too. It is possible that 1.5TSI will be much better on the highways at triple digit speeds.

I guess it is the sales chart which shows in the attitude of the showroom staff to prospective customers. Mahindra is probably struggling to meet existing bookings for XUV700 and I can understand them not going after more bookings. But to offer 3km test drive in the town is still ridiculous, I guess.

Some what similar thing happened in 2014 when I was planning to replace my Balerno (sedan). I requested for test drive of Honda City (petrol), but was told they had only the diesel car for test drives. I was told they will arrange a petrol car from Chennai, which never happened.

[sunikkat]

Originally Posted by sparameswaran

I have never gone off roading. Unlikely in the future too. I don't really need the 4x4. Yes, I have been to places with bad roads. But was not really an issue for the T Jet. Concerned it may not be the same with Octavia.

I wouldn’t be really worried about this part. I have a MK3 Octavia and there were many instances where I had taken it to places with bad to no roads. Once Google guided me through some forest roads with only stones and small rocks for almost 25 kms (between Sirsi and Yana caves) but the car did well. And my car is running on 45 section tyres. Obviously you cannot carry pace like Compass in those roads. And in all 6 years my car underbody would have scrapped 4 to 5 times. You do need to reduce your speed on those big speed breakers than Compass or say even T Jet. And I find the ground clearance in previous and this gen more or less same in real driving conditions.
That’s where Slavia 1.5 with that GC will be more practical. But personally if I buy that, I will lower it as I don’t prefer higher GC as it kills the stance and dynamics.

[Kosfactor]

For your use an SUV is probably not needed , you should perhaps look at a sedan that you can depend on. The most important bit is that once the initial excitement is over the thing you have bought with your money has to serve a purpose - for many years.

Going from one Fiat to another is not wise in my opinion.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Linea TJet cannot be replaced with a better or even same experience below 30L budget. Period. Tjet is a spoiler for sure. In fact, Punto Abarth is a demolisher.

Having said that, given your condition, its time for you to let go of your love drive.

The only replacement (I can think of) for your requirements is a Jeep Compass (4*2 Diesel Manual only). The only cons (for you) are reliability and service costs (including service network). It is a hit or miss. But not a deal breaker though.

The other alternatives like Octavia, Crysta, upcoming Tuscon, are subjective and a lot of compromise. Well, Octavia is a compromise on pricing (I find it overpriced) and again reliability of its DSG (well, DQ250 is more reliable than a DQ200, and skoda claims it as well). Crysta is a heavy compromise on the driving dynamics, performance, features, etc. which in no way is a replacement for TJet.

The fact is that you don't have any alternative in the Sedan side of it in less than 30L. Period. If you have the luxury of time, I suggest you to hold for the launch of the Toyota 5 seater SUV reveal/launch on July 1st, upcoming Tucson.

[keroo1099]

Originally Posted by sparameswaran

Update:
Among these cars, if I am asked to choose, it will be between the Octavia and Jeep Compass for me. Surprisingly, they are almost in the same price range, with the the Jeep Compass being the more expensive one!

If you are going to be spending north of 30L on an upgrade from a car that you clearly love, I suggest renting both cars for a week to see which one suits you better.

Good luck on the upgrade.

[sparameswaran]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

Linea TJet cannot be replaced with a better or even same experience below 30L budget.

Having said that, given your condition, its time for you to let go of your love drive.

The only replacement (I can think of) for your requirements is a Jeep Compass (4*2 Diesel Manual only).

If you have the luxury of time, I suggest you to hold for the launch of the Toyota 5 seater SUV reveal/launch on July 1st, upcoming Tucson.

I am learning the hard way that I picked a nearly non-replaceable car (within a sane budget) last time I bought one!
Sadly, It is no exaggeration that nothing below 30lakhs can be a worthy replacement for the T Jet.

Regarding 'letting go of love for driving', you are echoing my better half's thoughts!

The manual 4x2 Jeep Compass is not under consideration because it doesn't have cruise control. I want a car with cruise control. I am aware that many think cruise control is not useful in Indian driving conditions. However, I would humbly disagree - based on my experience of past 8 years. It is possible to use cruise control on some of our highways, esp where traffic is not bad. Many such highways are there in TN. I have used it extensively. I can't use it in Kerala's roads, though. I also should add that using cruise control doesn't take away the fun of driving. I find it an enjoyable experience, cruising and negotiating the traffic as well as the curves on the highway and hurdles on the road - while using cruise control. Getting used to it takes a little effort (and interest in trying it), but I find it very useful. I would recommend that everyone else try it, if your road conditions permit it (there are such roads in India, trust me).
Unfortunately, Jeep provides cruise control only on the automatic models (petrol & diesel) of the Compass. That basically means I can't really be going for the compass. (I test drove the Diesel AT and had elaborated my thoughts above).

Regarding luxury of time - I am not really in a hurry. My T Jet is back with me. I am not in a hurry to let her go. Waiting for the Toyota 5 seater is not a difficult thing to do. But I am not sure it will be anything like the T Jet (or the Octavia / Compass) to drive, though. Let us see.

Originally Posted by keroo1099

If you are going to be spending north of 30L on an upgrade from a car that you clearly love, I suggest renting both cars for a week to see which one suits you better.

That is indeed a good suggestion. Thank you - shall see whether I can try that out.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by sparameswaran

Regarding 'letting go of love for driving', you are echoing my better half's thoughts!

I want a car with cruise control.

Regarding luxury of time - I am not really in a hurry.

Waiting for the Toyota 5 seater is not a difficult thing to do. But I am not sure it will be anything like the T Jet (or the Octavia / Compass ) to drive, though. Let us see.
.

Sorry about the ambiguity in my statement that made you think otherwise. My point was to let go of your love "drive" (let go of your car) and not driving.

Personally, I don't think (especially for a driving enthusiast) cruise control should be a deal breaker.
And one another important reason that I don't like cruise control (I frequently do Chennai-Coimbatore-Chennai) is because of how it works. Eg 1 - If there is a reduction in speed due to up-bridge/up-slope, then there is surge of engine power which increases the vehicle speed to match the set speed limit resulting in drop of fuel economy and loss of steering control - doesn't solve the purpose of cruise control. Eg 2 - If there is an increase of speed during down-bridge/down-slope, the car slows down to set speed limit using wheel brakes and not through engine braking. Again doesn't solve the purpose of cruise control. So I stopped using cruise control at all in my Harrier.
I am not sure how it works in premium cars.

It is obvious that the upcoming Toyota/Hyundai is no match to the driving dynamics of TJet or Octavia or Compass. In that case, you only option is Octavia (if you still think cruise control is a deal breaker).

[sparameswaran]

Update:

I decided NOT to buy the Octavia or the Slavia/Virtus.

Octavia is no doubt what my heart want.
From the driving pleasure point of view, I think Octavia is what should replace the T Jet. I test drove Octavia twice and there is nothing which can match it at that price point.
However, I am reluctant to plonk more than 30 lakhs (35-36L if L&K) on Octavia at this point of time, due to various reasons.
I will not be gaining much on the rear seat space by upgrading to the Octavia (I tested the space with a child seat in place). In the driving dept there is no competition.
My other concern (I am afraid some of you might think this is a stretch) is, looking at the way the whole industry is moving, it appears to me that the years of ICE cars is numbered. The government policy appears to be skewed (rightfully so) towards promoting cleaner fuel, hybrids and electric cars and discouraging ICE cars in future. My definite plan is indeed to move on to an electric car as soon as a reasonable option becomes available with a range of 600kms or when the charging infrastructure on my route between Pondy & Kerala become good enough for me to trust them for such trips. When that happens, I would like to dispose of ICE car and get the electric one. The question is whether I should go for the Octavia as an 'interim arrangement', especially when it is not coming cheap. The only reason I want the Octavia is the driving pleasure. It goes against everything my better half is looking for - more space, safe to take on bad roads (ground clearance), a practical car with good mileage (she is more level headed than me, of course). Add to add to all this, the 'middle class guilt' of splurging on cars. As of now I am putting on hold the plan.

The Slavia/Virtus at the best can be looked upon as a lateral upgrade from a T Jet. You get some more features and a larger boot, but the build quality is inferior for sure. Interior space is no different. T jet had all 4 disc brakes. I feel the fit and finish was better in T Jet compared to the VAG twins (just like it was better in the previous generation VAG cars). In effect, I am not gaining much by changing the T Jet to a Slavia/Virtus.

So, I am in a dilemma.

I am likely to go for a more practical, spacious car, may be even an SUV/MUV at a price point where I will not need a loan, as my 'interim arrangement' till a good option of electric car comes on the scene (hopefully in 5 years or so). I am now looking at such options in the 20-25L bracket. Suggestions are welcome. Let us see.

I will be letting my T Jet go, anyway. If anyone from t-bhp is interested, you are most welcome to get in touch. Plz drop me a DM.

[sparameswaran]

Originally Posted by sparameswaran

So, here are my 'requirements':
1. A driver's car
2. Reliable
3. Safe
4. Service available in Pondicherry itself
5. Would prefer to have the features which were there in my T Jet to be there in the new one too (any extra creature comfort is welcome). Specifically, cruise control is an absolute must.
6. Preferably a sedan, willing to consider other options if worthy

Resale value and mileage are good to have, but not the primary concern.

It will be helpful if the replacement car has more space than the T Jet.

To be honest, my heart says "get the octavia"!

This might sound like a decision which is far from what I was working towards, but here I am.

I booked a Tata Safari XZA+ Kaziranga edition.

Decided against the Octavia with a heavy heart.
The decision to look away from the Octavia is purely from the head - it looked like a lot of money to spend on a car right now. Multiple factors went into this decision and it took time and effort for me to move away from my fixity towards the Octavia. I try NOT to take loan to buy a car, as far as possible. Going for the Octavia without a loan was a stretch.

The other car I felt really comfortable driving was the compass. But space was even less than the T Jet. And more pricey than the Octavia for diesel AT with cruise control (Mosel S).

XUV700 has insane waiting periods. Didn't want to do that.

Safari has its own share of issues which I am aware of:

-Whatever said and done, it can't drive like a T Jet or the Octavia (or even the compass). I took it on a test drive and at least highway ride and driveability was good. It will be primarily be a highway car for me, that is the consolation.

-I am aware of the (likely) reason why Tata didn't get it tested at GNCAP from the relevant discussions here in the forum. But what are the other options? At least the car build quality seemed good. Safety features seems adequate, though the design element is still a concern.

-I am aware of malfunctions and niggles reported by multiple owners. The only hope is that I don't get allotted a 'lemon'. I took up this matter with the sales staff at the showroom. Have asked for detailed PDI before registration. The staff promised to take 'extra care' with the car. Let us see.

-Tata's service reputation is not uniformly good even for the Pondy showroom & service. Two of my colleagues here gave diametrically opposite views on the Tata service here (Schakralaya Motors). A gamble, I suppose. The limited number of staff I interacted with so far seemed genuine and straightforward. No false promises, no pretentions. Very helpful so far, but the story has just started. Let us see.

-Never owned a diesel vehicle before. The NVH levels are going to be a nuisance, but a bigger concern is the DPF regeneration issue & periodic filling up of DEF. Hopefully will not be a problem with predominant highway use. Let us see.

The main reasons for the (unlikely) choice are :

-Space
-Engine, though not as 'agile' as I would have liked it to be
-Good build quality (appears even better than XUV700) and good safety features (albeit concerns about GNCAP scores, if tested)
-Good set of features except for the infotainment system and ADAS
-My better half is happier with an SUV and esp liked the Safari. She liked the dark edition the most, but black being tough to maintain, concerns about visibility at night (of the car to others on the road) and black colour absorbing more heat when left under the sun kept us away from black.
-Service quality may not be the best, but at least Tata service is more widespread (than MOPAR) and likely more accessible
-Evetual plan to move to an EV. Vis a Vis Octavia, this is cheaper upfront by at least 5L and the fuel (ownership) expenses are likely going to be less over next 5 to 10 years. I have averaged 11000km/year for past 10 years.


Also, I am aware that a face-lift of the Safari is expected in 2023. I guess things like a 360 degree camera and ADAS will be offered. But the engine is unlikely to change and the car at present is having reasonably good level of feafures. I don't think I will feel bad about the anticipated face-lift, when it happens.

So that is where things stand right now.
Shall update once there is more news.


Meanwhile, if anyone would like to help with suggestions on anything specific to look for at the PDI of a Safari (I have the Team BHP PDI checklist) as well as any must have accessories etc, it will be really appreciated.

Thank you.

[sparameswaran]

A bit concerned about the complete lack of response to the decision to go for Tata Safari

Wondering whether people are 'stunned' into silence about the choice, after discussing about a 'reliable' and 'worthy' replacement.

Is Tata and/or Safari too terrible an option?

Do you think I made a terrible mistake and should re-consider?

Please feel free to pitch in with your views.

Thanks.

[clevermax]

Originally Posted by sparameswaran

Wondering whether people are 'stunned' into silence about the choice, after discussing about a 'reliable' and 'worthy' replacement.

I am not sure whether it will be a reliable and worthy replacement for the T-Jet. You should prepare yourself for the downgrade you're about to do in the driving pleasure department if yours were a pre-GC Linea.

As an unreliable but worthy replacement, an option was to look for a pre-owned diesel car from one of the German trios that are getting sold aplenty from the NCR area.

And yes, Octavia would have been a very good upgrade from a T-Jet.

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by sparameswaran

I booked a Tata Safari XZA+ Kaziranga edition.
But what are the other options?

The staff promised to take 'extra care' with the car. Let us see.

Originally Posted by sparameswaran

Do you think I made a terrible mistake and should re-consider?

There are other options. If van type cars have made it to your list, then Crysta should be top of your list. I don't recommend the Safari to anyone these days. Their factory quality control in case of Harrier/Safari is a mess as per forum experiences. There is a big chance you will visit the service centre multiple times under the first 10k kms. No amount of extra care can sort out the lack of factory quality control processes.