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Old 7th January 2023, 10:46   #16
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re: Sold my lemon Tata Harrier | What car next? EDIT: Bought Hyundai Tucson

This is what I call ourselves the tamed sheeps and involuntary guinea pigs. It's a very unfortunate state for us as consumers in India where we don't have options to choose from, especially in the last 10 years (No, I am not anti BJP). No offerings/options from desired brands like Nissan, Honda, Ford, Mitsubishi, Renault, GM, Mazda, etc. Poor US.

Last edited by Livnletcarsliv : 7th January 2023 at 10:49.
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Old 7th January 2023, 10:57   #17
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re: Sold my lemon Tata Harrier | What car next? EDIT: Bought Hyundai Tucson

In a country where taxes make up most of the money spent on a car, good offerings from reputable brands will be few and far between. Even if few options are available, they are mostly toned down from their foreign counterparts to meet Indian "conditions". So basically you have to live with what you get here.
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Old 7th January 2023, 11:10   #18
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re: Sold my lemon Tata Harrier | What car next? EDIT: Bought Hyundai Tucson

The Innova Hycross is probably the most reliable car you could get in this price range, considering its a Toyota. They are built to last and with it being a hybrid, they will provide you with excellent fuel efficiency too. Do take a test drive and see how the performance is. If it satisfies the enthusiast in you, Go for it. The only problem is waiting periods for the Hycross are likely to be on the higher side (as informed from dealerships).
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Old 7th January 2023, 11:58   #19
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re: Sold my lemon Tata Harrier | What car next? EDIT: Bought Hyundai Tucson

My biggest problem is the size of Hycross. It is too big for my liking as well as use case (I don't have any parking problem though). (As a matter of fact, even 700 is big for my liking and use case. Hycross is bigger than 700).

The following is my take away so far
1. Primary recommendation - Hycross ZX Hybrid and Tuscon D Signature AWD/2WD
2. Secondary recommendation - XUV700 AX7L D AWD
3. Tiguan is a no no since both the mileage is extremely poor for my use case and the upkeep costs are the highest.
4. Kushaq/Taigun, if petrol is the choice

The following are the updates on the car
1. Tuscon waiting period is 7-9 months based on the colour choice.
2. Hycross waiting period is 9-12 months based on the colour choice. And the vehicle will be available for TD only from early Feb.
3. 700 waiting period is 6-9 months based on the colour choice. Will do the TD and update here.
4. Will also try the Kushaq. I like the simplistic looks of the Kushaq than the chrome and creases loaded Taigun.
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Old 7th January 2023, 12:48   #20
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re: Sold my lemon Tata Harrier | What car next? EDIT: Bought Hyundai Tucson

I just have one question though, on a scale of 1-10 how do you rate these 5 traits - Reliability, Enthusiast's Feel, Value for Money, Cost of Ownership, Features/Brand Experience for these cars.

Compass Diesel Manual S
Kushaq Monte Carlo 1.5 DSG & MT
700 AX7 L AWD Diesel
Tuscon D Signature AWD/2WD
Hycross ZX/ZX(O) Hybrid

Last edited by Livnletcarsliv : 7th January 2023 at 12:57.
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Old 7th January 2023, 13:03   #21
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re: Sold my lemon Tata Harrier | What car next? EDIT: Bought Hyundai Tucson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv View Post
I am happy that I was able to get rid of the car finally.
Can't say I am happy to see this but its more of a relief after the ordeal you went through. The writing was on the wall from your last post although I didn't expect it to be so soon, clearly shows your level of frustration.
So, a new year and a new start for you, I am happy for that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv View Post
Some of my requirements
1. Appropriate replacement of Harrier in terms of space.
2. Safety, performance, ride, and handling. I am an enthusiast looking to satisfy my Schumacher/Vin Diesel in me.
3. Reliability is an equal priority (since I lost my peace of mind and money with my previous car - Lemon Harrier).
4. I will be the only driver and this will my primary car.
6. I did about 48K kms in about 2yrs 10 months in my Harrier. I expect to do the same with +/- 5-6K. This is the last leg to own a diesel.
1. XUV700 AX5/AX7/AX7L Diesel MT/AT
2. If you had said Gaurav Gill I would've pointed your to the XUV300 Turbo Sport or the 300Nm diesel(in that package) but in MT only
3. This would involve a ruthless scrutiny with data driven projections which might not please the Vin Diesel in you but some calculated guesses can, like the XUV700.
4. This makes the case for getting a higher model than you "need" just to experience/explore some new developments in the automotive sector, ADAS maybe ?
6. Then you won't be doing injustice to a diesel(keeping aside the petrol-head in me).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv View Post
1. XUV700
2. Compass Diesel Manual
3. Tuscon Signature Diesel AT
4. Tiguan : So how is Tiguan compared to 700 petrol and 700 diesel? Is it worth that extra 10-11L?
- Since I have a beater car to take care of my current needs, I can hold on for a few more months if there are better/other options upcoming like Qashqai, etc.
1. Seems to be the top on the list, of course to be decided over detailed TDs. The 200 bhp and the torque is definitely pleasing Vin Diesel.
2. Aren't you going in a similar direction with the Jeep Compass, considering the issues already reported ?
3. Like you said, not satisfying the Vin Diesel in you.
4. No experience but to me the Tiguan comes across more as Jason Statham than Vin Diesel, probably that's why its petrol only(excuse the cheesiness).
- I have my doubts about the Qashqai but I am sure you already know about Poitive's exhaustive thread (Choosing an SUV up to 22L | Seltos, Harrier / Safari, Hector Plus, Compass, XUV700, Kicks, Scorpio N) on the topic.

Last edited by Axe77 : 7th January 2023 at 16:45. Reason: As requested.
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Old 7th January 2023, 15:42   #22
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re: Sold my lemon Tata Harrier | What car next? EDIT: Bought Hyundai Tucson

Quote:
Originally Posted by shancz View Post
Can't say I am happy to see this but its more of a relief after the ordeal you went through. The writing was on the wall from your last post although I didn't expect it to be so soon, clearly shows your level of frustration.
So, a new year and a new start for you, I am happy for that


1. XUV700 AX5/AX7/AX7L Diesel MT/AT
2. If you had said Gaurav Gill I would've pointed your to the XUV300 Turbo Sport or the 300Nm diesel(in that package) but in MT only
3. This would involve a ruthless scrutiny with data driven projections which might not please please the Vin Diesel in you but some calculated guesses can, like the XUV700.
4. This makes the case for getting a higher model than you "need" just to experience/explore some new developments in the automotive sector, ADAS maybe ?
6. Then you won't be doing injustice to a diesel(keeping aside the petrol-head in me).


1. Seems to be the top on the list, of course to be decided over detailed TDs. The 200 bhp and the torque is definitely pleasing Vin Diesel.
2. Aren't you going in a similar direction with the Jeep Compass, considering the issues already reported ?
3. Like you said, not satisfying the Vin Diesel in you.
4. No experience but to me the Tiguan comes across more as Jason Statham than Vin Diesel, probably that's why its petrol only(excuse the cheesiness).
- I have my doubts about the Qashqai but I am sure you already know about Poitive's exhaustive thread (Choosing an SUV up to 22L | Seltos, Harrier / Safari, Hector Plus, Compass, XUV700, Kicks, Scorpio N) on the topic.
Gaurav Gill or NK or Arjun Balu are old timers. And racing in India is still ages and years still has to go a long way before we get some international accredits.

Now coming to topic, of course, I know there is no one size fits all. But my quest is to reach the pinnacle with the right product. I am now trying to find the right balance with minor compromises here and there.

All I am comparing is my Harrier experience (my likes and dislikes about it), with what my next car will be (Is it better, bad or as is). Just because my car was a lemon does not mean it is a bad car.

On a second thought, should I go with the Harrier again?

Last edited by Livnletcarsliv : 7th January 2023 at 16:00.
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Old 7th January 2023, 16:14   #23
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re: Sold my lemon Tata Harrier | What car next? EDIT: Bought Hyundai Tucson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv View Post
As some of you in this forum know my cries, rants, frustration, and disappointment with my previous ownership of a 2019 BS4 Harrier XZ lemon, nevertheless, I am happy that I was able to get rid of the car finally.

My considerations

1. XUV700

2. Compass Diesel Manual

3. Tuscon Signature Diesel AT

4. Tiguan
Glad that you are done with the Harrier finally. I read your repeated posts on how frustrated you were with the car, and used to empathise with you. Good riddance!

Of your choices, you can strike off the Tiguan and Compass, as neither is reliability master. Both cars do suffer from serious reliability niggles, and IMO are quite overpriced.

Of the remaining two, IMO the XUV seems the better car, but the wait times are agonisingly long. If you are lucky you will get the delivery by this year, else you might need to wait. Tucson could be readily available and would cost more substantially.

If you are worried about the XUV's reliability and niggles aspect Vis-a-Vis Harrier, please go with XUV700 eyes closed. Mahindra vehicles in general do suffer from Minor niggles, but these are way lesser than what Tata reports. Not to mention the SVCs are way better than Tata SVCs.

Other Options- Since you are only two people, you can also checkout the Hyryder Hybrid/Used Fortuner/MG Astor Turbo.
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Old 7th January 2023, 16:46   #24
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re: Sold my lemon Tata Harrier | What car next? EDIT: Bought Hyundai Tucson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv View Post
5. I am a person who appreciates sound mechanicals more than tonnes of gizmos. Of course, I expect at-par bells and whistles compared to the market if not the best.
Please check out the Taigun 1.5 DSG. Get the extended warrenty and you'll be covered for the DSG fear. I test drove it today and loved it. I know it is a segment below Harrier, but you wont feel it as a downgrade. The space in rear is good too. If you love driving atleast go and take a test drive. I drove rashly and drove it sedately on my way back. Got 8 kmpl while going and 20kmpl while returning. I reset the FE counter when i took a U-turn.

Also check this out :
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/suvs-...ml#post5470770 (Choosing an SUV up to 22L | Seltos, Harrier / Safari, Hector Plus, Compass, XUV700, Kicks, Scorpio N)
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Old 7th January 2023, 17:02   #25
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re: Sold my lemon Tata Harrier | What car next? EDIT: Bought Hyundai Tucson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv View Post
I just have one question though, on a scale of 1-10 how do you rate these 5 traits - Reliability, Enthusiast's Feel, Value for Money, Cost of Ownership, Features/Brand Experience for these cars.

Compass Diesel Manual S
Kushaq Monte Carlo 1.5 DSG & MT
700 AX7 L AWD Diesel
Tuscon D Signature AWD/2WD
Hycross ZX/ZX(O) Hybrid
Jeep Compass Diesel Manual S
Considering the state of Jeep in India and the reliability issues in general, I would give the Jeep a score of 7 in reliability, A 9 for enthusiasts feel, a 7 for value for money, a 7 for the cost of ownership, and an 8 for features and 8 brand experience.

Skoda Kushaq Monte Carlo 1.5 DSG & MT
Considering the fact that the Kushaq is priced much lower than the other cars on the list, the scores have been given in relation to the price. I would give it a score of 8 in reliability, 9 for enthusiast feel 8 for value for money, 7.5 for the cost of ownership, 8 for features, and 8 for brand experience. It's quite a balanced car according to me for the price you pay.

Mahindra XUV 700 AX7 L AWD Diesel
With the XUV700, I would give a score of 8 in reliability, an 8 for enthusiasts' feel, a 9 for value for money, an 8 for the cost of ownership, a 9 for features, and a 7 for brand experience.

Hyundai Tuscon D Signature AWD/2WD
With Tucson, I would give it a score of 8.5 for reliability, 8 for enthusiast feel, 8 for value for money, 8 for the cost of ownership, 9 for features, and 7.5 for brand experience.

Toyota Innova Hycross ZX/ZX(O) Hybrid
With the Hycross.I would give it a 9.5 for reliability, 8 for enthusiast feel, 8 for value for money, 8 for the cost of ownership, 8 for features, and 8 for brand experience.

Overall, If I want a compact, yet sporty car which is not hard on the pocket but is feature loaded and provides me the thrill of driving, along with the brand value that comes with Skoda, I would go for the Kushaq DSG. If I want the most features for the money along with a big car feel, and adequate driving pleasure to go with it, the XUV700 would be my pick. If I want a do-all car, albeit with the nametag of a Hyundai. the Tucson AWD is the car to get. If I want a truly reliable car from a household nameplate, with adequate features, the Hycross is the car to get. If I want the enthusiast's to feel, a car with a tried and tested engine from a reputed international brand, the Compass is the way to go.

A point to note here is although the Hycross looks huge, it is of a similar size to the XUV700 with only a 60mm increase in length over the XUV700, Whereas the XUV700 is 40mm wider, while the Hycross is 35mm taller than the XUV700.

In my opinion, if you want a reliable reputed nameplate, with good mileage and features on offer, the Hycross is the way to go, or if the features and overall package offered by the XUV700 entices you, the XUV700 is the way to go. Considering the fact that you aren't too interested in spending 42L for a Hyundai, it should be kept out od contention. The Compass diesel would have been a good pick, but the status of Jeep in India is worrying and you never know how long the nameplate will continue (with such dwindling sales and dealership network). The Skoda is an altogether different pick, if you want a compact vehicle with a bit of everything, at under 25L, it could be your choice.

Last edited by bijims : 7th January 2023 at 17:12.
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Old 7th January 2023, 17:05   #26
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re: Sold my lemon Tata Harrier | What car next? EDIT: Bought Hyundai Tucson

Quote:
Originally Posted by 07CR View Post
Glad that you are done with the Harrier finally. I read your repeated posts on how frustrated you were with the car, and used to empathise with you. Good riddance!

Of your choices, you can strike off the Tiguan and Compass, as neither is reliability master. Both cars do suffer from serious reliability niggles, and IMO are quite overpriced.

Of the remaining two, IMO the XUV seems the better car, but the wait times are agonisingly long. If you are lucky you will get the delivery by this year, else you might need to wait. Tucson could be readily available and would cost more substantially.

If you are worried about the XUV's reliability and niggles aspect Vis-a-Vis Harrier, please go with XUV700 eyes closed. Mahindra vehicles in general do suffer from Minor niggles, but these are way lesser than what Tata reports. Not to mention the SVCs are way better than Tata SVCs.

Other Options- Since you are only two people, you can also checkout the Hyryder Hybrid/Used Fortuner/MG Astor Turbo.
I am not a big fan of MG. And the 1.3 Turbo for highway drives and my kind of use case has its own limitations. The minimum (if its petrol), should be a 1.5. Also they are not true MG's. MG in India (and globally as well) are mostly the renamed/rebadged models of SAIC or other Chinese brands.

My cards were not good on a new car. Just can't imagine my luck on a used car even if it is a Toyota. Even normally, I am generally not comfortable using other's car unless the situation demands. So I can never imagine to own a used car without complaints and dis-satisfactions. As mentioned earlier, Hyryder is definitely not a car for me. I believe that Hyryder is for those who like to fill-it, shut-it and drive-it kind.

I am not bothered about the wait times as I have a beater car for now. And I can hold on for a few more months. While I wait for 700 (since Ive booked already), it will be good to also get some few more options on likes of Qashqai, or something else from any brand to consider.

Regarding overprice, today's market is seller's market. Which car is not overpriced? For comparison, if Maruti can sell a car for 23L, then we cannot complain that a world class Tiguan costs 40L. Of course, keeping cost of ownership and reliability aside. So the real question here is which overpriced (which has already become the market norm as the car prices will never be reduced in the future unless there is a reduction in taxes) car should I buy?
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Old 7th January 2023, 17:06   #27
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re: Sold my lemon Tata Harrier | What car next? EDIT: Bought Hyundai Tucson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg_ad View Post
Please check out the Taigun 1.5 DSG. Get the extended warrenty and you'll be covered for the DSG fear. I test drove it today and loved it. I know it is a segment below Harrier, but you wont feel it as a downgrade. The space in rear is good too. If you love driving atleast go and take a test drive. I drove rashly and drove it sedately on my way back. Got 8 kmpl while going and 20kmpl while returning. I reset the FE counter when i took a U-turn.

Also check this out :
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/suvs-...ml#post5470770 (Choosing an SUV up to 22L | Seltos, Harrier / Safari, Hector Plus, Compass, XUV700, Kicks, Scorpio N)
Will definitely check it out.
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Old 7th January 2023, 23:26   #28
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re: Sold my lemon Tata Harrier | What car next? EDIT: Bought Hyundai Tucson

Quote:
Originally Posted by shancz View Post
- I have my doubts about the Qashqai but I am sure you already know about Poitive's exhaustive thread (Choosing an SUV up to 22L | Seltos, Harrier / Safari, Hector Plus, Compass, XUV700, Kicks, Scorpio N) on the topic.
Thanks for sharing this link. I am totally flabbergasted to come across a like minded soul with an almost similar requirements. The only difference being that I already tasted the pros and cons of Harrier for long enough though. Even now, I still like the Harrier. Its unfortunate that my car was a lemon and that ASS experience was equally bad with both the dealer and the brand itself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bijims View Post
Toyota Innova Hycross ZX/ZX(O) Hybrid
With the Hycross.I would give it a 9.5 for reliability, 8 for enthusiast feel, 8 for value for money, 8 for the cost of ownership, 8 for features, and 8 for brand experience.
Hycross being a MPV in a SUVish stance, longest of the lot, with the puny looking wheels, with captain seats in the middle row (which is more suited for Chauffeur driven people) and more likely to be heaviest of the lot, how can it become an enthusiast car scoring 8 out 10. I would probably give it a 6-7 out of 10 (Of course, comments reserved until we get the real world user experience).


Quote:
Originally Posted by bijims View Post
A point to note here is although the Hycross looks huge, it is of a similar size to the XUV700 with only a 60mm increase in length over the XUV700, Whereas the XUV700 is 40mm wider, while the Hycross is 35mm taller than the XUV700.
That is exactly the reason why I mentioned that even 700 is slightly big for my liking and use case. The perfect size for me would be Hector/Harrier/Tuscon/Tiguan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bijims View Post
In my opinion, if you want a reliable reputed nameplate, with good mileage and features on offer, the Hycross is the way to go, or if the features and overall package offered by the XUV700 entices you, the XUV700 is the way to go. Considering the fact that you aren't too interested in spending 42L for a Hyundai, it should be kept out od contention. The Compass diesel would have been a good pick, but the status of Jeep in India is worrying and you never know how long the nameplate will continue (with such dwindling sales and dealership network). The Skoda is an altogether different pick, if you want a compact vehicle with a bit of everything, at under 25L, it could be your choice.
42 Lakhs is a significant stretch for me. And that too for a Hyundai where I dont like the looks and the colour choices (both interior and exterior) and the soft/comfort oriented suspension. I loved the understated looks of the previous gen Hyundai. In fact, I tried checking with the dealer for the previous gen Hyundai (with any colour choices and any diesel variant). But no luck.

This again brings back to square 1. Or probably even 0 where I start to think, why not Harrier again (Of course, reliability and the ASS experience is elephant in room that I need to take care of my own).

Last edited by Livnletcarsliv : 7th January 2023 at 23:29.
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Old 8th January 2023, 10:09   #29
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re: Sold my lemon Tata Harrier | What car next? EDIT: Bought Hyundai Tucson

I have a 2022 XUV 700 D MT. So far, I have driven it for around 25K KMs.

One thing to note:

As an "enthusiast" car, the XUV 700 is really a mixed bag. While the power train is good - bordering sensational, the steering is completely devoid of any feel or feedback.

On the handling front, the XUV is very good in straight lines, and decent on corners - it will wash wide easily if you get carried away with it. The brakes are not that great as well.

On the NVH, the engine noise is well contained, but with longer term usage, I can certainly feel vibrations starting to creep in.

Given that you'd like to hold onto this car for long, and given that you're also looking at the Tiguan, I'd seriously recommend a Fortuner - even a used one. The manual with IMT is a dark horse that doesn't get spoken about much. It makes it very easy to shift, and makes you feel like a pro with its rev-matching feature.

Before deciding on any car, see if you can take a longer term rental, or a friend's car, and try to live with it for a week.
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Old 8th January 2023, 10:19   #30
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re: Sold my lemon Tata Harrier | What car next? EDIT: Bought Hyundai Tucson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv View Post
Hycross being a MPV in a SUVish stance, longest of the lot, with the puny looking wheels, with captain seats in the middle row (which is more suited for Chauffeur driven people) and more likely to be heaviest of the lot, how can it become an enthusiast car scoring 8 out 10. I would probably give it a 6-7 out of 10 (Of course, comments reserved until we get the real world user experience).

That is exactly the reason why I mentioned that even 700 is slightly big for my liking and use case. The perfect size for me would be Hector/Harrier/Tuscon/Tiguan.

42 Lakhs is a significant stretch for me. And that too for a Hyundai where I dont like the looks and the colour choices (both interior and exterior) and the soft/comfort oriented suspension. I loved the understated looks of the previous gen Hyundai. In fact, I tried checking with the dealer for the previous gen Hyundai (with any colour choices and any diesel variant). But no luck.

This again brings back to square 1. Or probably even 0 where I start to think, why not Harrier again (Of course, reliability and the ASS experience is elephant in room that I need to take care of my own).
The Hybrid will surprise you, the Hycross rides more like a car than you think. do get a test drive and let's see how it goes. Coming to weight, dimensions, and seating, yes it is an MPV and if that makes you shy away from it, I totally agree with you. But considering an overall comfort, space, engine, performance, and reliability package, the Hycross will get the job done. However, I understand that Innova is a people mover, it just doesn't feel right going for it.

Yes, considering your reservations about size, the Hycross and XUV700 definitely don't make the cut, The Harrier, Tucson, Tiguan, and upcoming Hector could be good options.

Coming to the looks part, yes, In my opinion too, Hyundai's designs are polarising, to say the least, I am certainly not a fan of their current designs, so on the design front, other options are better considered. I also know spending 42 lakhs on a Hyundai just doesn't feel right either.

Now, moving on to whether the Harrier is the best option for you, it could have been had it not been for the horrendous experiences you had to go through with it.

So, with the limited set of options available, the Harrier still seems the perfect fit for you, else you can for the Compass (but other factors need to be considered) or the upcoming MG Hector (provided you are able to live with the fact that it's a chinese car and you are able to appreciate the new design and looks)
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